Biting- an Acceptable Behavior?

[Jeff&Peks]

So called dog lovers are always getting bit, they think every dog loves them no matter what the breed.
Alot of the owners on here including myself can pick up their own Chows with out a fuss so I wouldn't advise anyone else doing it. You don't need signs just tell people including relatives not to pick him up. Your Chows not comforable with it so why push it. My Chow would kill someone if they tried to pick her up no matter who it is.

[Jeff&Peks]

Try giving the Chow a break, Why does everything a Chow does have to be a major catastrophe and due to abuse and bad breeding. Jesus you have a guard dog, every book, article, post no matter what is written about a Chow says Chows are Leary of strangers. They are basically a one person/ Immediate family breed. I wouldn't stop your Chow and daughter's relationship and start keeping the two separated you are just going to cause more problems down the line. The Chow doesn't like non-house hold people picking it up no big deal there is nothing to worry about with your daughter. If these Dawg experts would start learning the breed they think they know so much they wouldn't be scaring the hell out of people all the time, all they are doing is contributing to the bad rep Chows have already. Pekoe hated my Grandson when he first moved in and I heard the same thing, OMG Pekoe will kill him, keep them separated, Pekoe was abused, Pekoe had bad breeding, She has to go in for obedience or behavior modificication right away, yeah right now Conner hangs all over her with out a peep from Pekoe, All it took was a little time for Pekoe to except him as a family member. Don't get all caught up in these dog theories its all complete bull. The longer your Dad is around your Chow and doesn't push himself on her like he did, in time he may be able to pick Him/her up. But Chows really don't like leaving the ground as it is so he may not. I'm sure all that happened is your dad went for him, tried to pick him up with out warning then scared it or pulled some hair in the process, the Chow acted from a natural reaction. You don't force yourself on or ever just walk up and try to pick up any breed with out letting them know first, if they show any sign of rejection then give it up or your asking to get bit. Plus you just moved in to a new home, the Chows whole living environment has been changed, Its a little unedged, scared and not sure what's going on, that spells bite if pushed, not to you or your daughter but anyone he's not comfortable with but thats only temporary until he is settled in.

No offense to your Dad but I run into these all dogs love me people all the time, its not the dog that is dangerous it's the I love dogs and they all love me people that are dangerous.

[Laura]

Jeff with all due respect my concern is because this is an itty bitty PUPPY. Not a grown chow. Shug is 8 mos and at this point I woudn't expect him to allow a stranger to come in my house and pick him up. A 2.5 month old puppy biting family members out of aggression is a different story. Not like it...squirm to get away...yes...bite...no. All pups need to be properly socialized and this one certainly does. If she didn't think this was an issue, that it was just 'cute' because it's a puppy or ok because it's a chow she wouldn't be on here asking about it.

[Jeff&Peks]

Jeff with all due respect my concern is because this is an itty bitty PUPPY. Not a grown chow. Shug is 8 mos and at this point I woudn't expect him to allow a stranger to come in my house and pick him up. A 2.5 month old puppy biting family members out of aggression is a different story. Not like it...squirm to get away...yes...bite...no. All pups need to be properly socialized and this one certainly does. If she didn't think this was an issue, that it was just 'cute' because it's a puppy or ok because it's a chow she wouldn't be on here asking about it.

When I posted that I didn't even see your post, and I didn't say it was Cute. Aggression is used way to much on here and people are turning things into big problems that are basically nothing, the only reason I responded was because the daughter was dragged into it. Like every breed you have to use caution and keep an eye on things when kids are involved but this isn't a life threatening problem and she doesn't have to get all paranoid and rush out for obenece classes thinking her Chow is going to kill her daughter at any moment. If she starts getting all panicky every time the Chow or daughter approach each others she will turn nothing into something and will start having problems. We all know puppy or adult no matter what the breed isn't going to like being picked up by a non-household guest even if it is a relative especially with Chows, everyone knows that is a NO NO until the Chow gets use to the person. For someone that is supposed to love the breed so much and is trying to change the image of the breed coming up with aggression issues and behavior problems every time the Chow moves isn't doing the breed any good at all. If I were new to Chows and came on this site looking for advice after reading Aggressive problems in every post there is no way in hell I would ever get a Chow.

As for training Melanie can post these long books on how well Khana is trained and I can go on all day about how well I think Pekoe is trained but the only difference in what we are saying is Melanie says take your Chow to someone for training and I'm saying not to take it to a stranger for training. Our Chows know us, trust us and listen to us so they will respond to us. There is not a person alive no matter how experienced they are with Chows that could teach Khana to do what it does, it was Melanie that taught Khana not a stranger because Khona trust and listens to her. There is not a Chow owner on here that couldn't teach their Chows to do the same things Khona does if they took the time or had the time and patense to teach them. I don't care if Pekoe can jump threw a tire or gets a good citizenship award so I don't waste my time but some do, a stranger isn't going to do it and will only make things worse, it is only going to come from the owner someone the Chow trust, I think thats the same with all breeds but especially a Chow.

Not everyone can walk into a lions den but the trainer has established trust between the two so the trainer is able to control and train the lion, let a stranger in the cage and lets see what happens. Yeah I know you can't compare a Chow to a Lion but its the same principle

[Auddymay]

Biting is an aggressive act. That is undeniable. If you have a chowling biting at 10 weeks, you, as the owner, must decide if this is acceptable. When you say it is part of the Chow's personality, and are willing to live with it, you must also accept that your Chow could bite anyone at any time. There are liability issues you take on with resigning to that path. As the owner, you are responsible to keep everyone out of harm's way, not just your Chow.

If you are of the other school, and think a non-biting Chow is the only acceptable Chow to live in your family, you must work on changing the behavior. This is achieveable through behavior modification. We all use it to some degree or another, even the Chows with no formal or apparent training have had their people change behaviors they find unacceptable. If you are unsure how to make your chowling more confident, or at least respond with grumbling and retreat instead of biting, follow Melanie's advice.

One last thing. It is one thing to disagree that her Chow was okay to react with a bite, but brow beating her and starting a debate is unacceptable, and well, aggressive on your parts. Start a debate post of your own about biting. Obviously, this member wants help changing her chowling's biting behavior, everything else is just noise.

[Jeff&Peks]

Always got to have the crusaders jump in and again make something out of nothing that cause more problems, where in anyone's post is anyone brow beating her or anyone else. Notice also that we have the dog is a dog people arguing with the Chow is a Chow people. That Chow did nothing that any other Dawgg wouldn't have done under the same circumstances. Why not just put the Chow to sleep now thats its been declared an aggressive kid killing beast some of you people are out of your minds. If you don't have a problem then lets create one, what's life with out problems, who will we have to feel sorry for.

Accoding to some of you when Wyllow bit the transporter then the wyllow should have been taken to shelter and instanly put to sleep, She is a killing agressive monster. you sure change your stories depending on who post.

[IliamnasQuest]

People get all upset about the term "aggression" but when a dog bites then it IS acting aggressively, regardless of the reason. In the case of a 10-11 week old pup, I'd say it's likely to be fear aggression - but still, someone's getting bitten and that's not a good thing.

Jeff, there are huge differences between us. You base all of your advice on your interactions with your one chow. If Pekoe does it, then it's normal to you. You have no practical experience outside of that one dog. You've already established that you think it's okay for her to growl at children and to snap at people (by previous posts - not going to go back and find those). You seem to be really boastful of the times she acts aggressively. And to help back up what you belief, you tend to encourage others to believe that a chow acting aggressively is perfectly normal. This, to me, is tantamount to helping push the breed onto "bad dog" lists, and I'm really sorry that you do this. Your attitude affects the public opinion of the breed in a very negative way. YOU are what makes people continue to believe that the chow is a breed that should be banned.

I, on the other hand, have decades of experience with hundreds and hundreds of dogs, including many chows. I've studied the breed extensively. I understand that the concept of "aloof", used to describe the breed, simply means "not overly friendly" but is NEVER to mean "okay to growl and bite". And those who breed for the proper temperament breed for a chow that is friendly and outgoing as a puppy and who gradually develops into a more nonchalant attitude as an adult. This breed is not supposed to be an aggressive breed. They were bred for versatility - pulling, packing, herding, guarding - and that means that they had to be easily handled. I promote the breed as a versatile breed, encouraging people to understand their independent nature and to accept them as the wonderful dogs they can be. This HAS to be done if the breed is going to survive.

In the case of the original poster - I went back in her posts and she's been concerned about the attitude of this puppy from the day she got him. And what is happening is evidently an escalation of the behavior, which is truly a reason for concern. A puppy should not react that way to someone picking them up. I see hundreds of puppies of various breeds, including chows, come through our puppy classes and it's (luckily) rare that there's a puppy that I can't just pick up and hold, even as a stranger. Puppies should be happy and playful and funny and loving, not afraid and aggressive. Starting out that way is a huge red flag to me and I think that the OP is right to be concerned. Getting the right help to steer the puppy to a better track will help her develop a trust with this pup and hopefully be able to provide a lifetime home without anyone getting seriously hurt along the way.

You know, Jeff, you want to make this into a huge argument about chow temperament and I fully realize you want to cover your own butt because of your dog's inability to act in a proper way. That's YOUR problem, though. I'm not interested in another back-and-forth argument with you. You have no idea how many people come to me in private to ask me for advice on problem behaviors in their chows and I've helped them - dozens of people over the years - because they don't want to be publically hounded by people like you who try to make them feel bad when they're dealing with an aggression problem in their dogs.

To the original poster - please find someone who can help you and I truly wish you the best of luck with your new pup!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[Auddymay]

You were, Jeff. Actually. Your pissing and moaning are legendary. While most of us are used to you, there are new members who are actually meeker than I am, and will think twice before seeking help with their Chows, after your helpful input. Then, you can do some more P&M when they are at their wits end and feel they have no choice but to rehome. I would personally like to see her raise a happy, confident, albeit aloof Chow without the threat that it will bite little Timmy when he comes to see his friend that has a Chow. Your dog vs. Chow analogy is getting old as well. I agree that Chow's are unique, but no where does it say in the description of the Chow that biting is a normal or acceptable response to percieved threats. Now, go start your own thread, or I will be forced to split this one.

Just as an aside, it is Craigslist. His brother Graig never got his list off the ground.

Also, I thought Wyllow was justified, so suck lemons and stop generalizing about people.

[Jeff&Peks]

Same two people same everyday crap, Again as always rambling on with your superior bull, You Melanie are doing nothing but contributing to the Chows bad rep and know nothing about Chows or training. It doesn't take a science degree to train and raise Chows/dogs or kids no matter how long or how much experience you have, all it take's is common sense. Alot of people have way more experience with Chows then you do yet none agree with you except that Stanly fool, the Dog wisperier and Hitler. Just keep on with your repetitious garbage, no one listens to it anyways except for the same two or three people. Everyone on this site is wrong and has agressive Chows except for you and auddymay, As long as you have been on this site there has not been one Chow, puppy or adult that hasn't met your standards they are all stupid and mean according to you, no Chow on this site is as good as you think Khona is. Get a life and lay off the Chows.

Auddymay, yeah your right thats why E-bay and Amazon have been trying to buy Graigslist for years and can't figure out why its so populer and what his secret is, Better get out the dictionary wrong again and what does Graigslist have to do with anything. Like Chows don't speak unless you know what your talking about your giving them both bad reputations.

Melonie, Your Chow follows you around with a food bowl, bothering you when you are eating? Sounds like a begging issue to me She may turn agressive if you don't share, whats wrong can't handle the begging problem. All I or anyone else has to do with Pekoe is say "No Pekoe its bad for you" then she walks away and lays down. Anytime you need some training tips feel free to ask.

[Auddymay]

Funny, when you say the same two people- do you include yourself in that count? By the by, I just googled graigslist and they asked if I meant craigslist. Guess they are ignorant, too... In any case, this is my last response. Next comment that does not address this woman's problem (she sees it as a problem, so it is), and I will follow through on the split. Then you can complain about that. I believe Melanie would call that 'redirecting'.

[Jeff&Peks]

Funny, when you say the same two people- do you include yourself in that count? By the by, I just googled graigslist and they asked if I meant craigslist. Guess they are ignorant, too... In any case, this is my last response. Next comment that does not address this woman's problem (she sees it as a problem, so it is), and I will follow through on the split. Then you can complain about that. I believe Melanie would call that 'redirecting'.

Yahoo or spell check would have done that also you didn't have to waste your time googling, but most don't walk around with Dictionaries all day to try and prove their intelligence, C or a G who cares, you seem to know what I was talking about thats all that counts and you didn't even need a dictionary, Very good.

I'm surprised your even involved in this, Popular vote has the Chow not doing anything wrong, Your saying just about everyone except you and Melanie are wrong, Shame, Shame.

[gebower]

I just have one thing to say about Chows, love them, love their unique personallities, wouldn't trade them for any other dog. Love live the Chow.

[Jeff&Peks]

You sicko's are nuts, you pull all the articles agreeing the Chow didn't do anything wrong then change that whole post around so it looks like I'm say Biting is an expectable behavior You frustrated old house wives need a life. It's time the Administrators strated dumping these self righteous old hags and got some moderators that that aren't abusing there job and the site. You did the same thing to Red dragon, Screw you two, (Probably been along time)I'm off this site. I want all my post deleted, I can take off the photo's.

[Auddymay]

Jeff, I clearly stated what would happen if you posted anything but a comment about the problem of the original poster. The fact that you went ahead and posted off topic again and were surprised that I split the topic shows your level of egocentricity. You weren't deleted, what is the big issue? When I named this post, I put a question mark as a way to invite comment, and was in no way saying it was your belief. I let your posts speak for themselves, and let others decide how to interpret what each of us writes.

You managed to scare off someone looking to rehome a Chow. You didn't agree with her reasons for doing it. Now it is on Craigslist and will still be getting a new home, just not through here, and maybe not a good home at all. For a guy who is all for the Chow, you sent that one away with nary a care. Sometimes, you need to be humane to the owner as well as the displaced Chow in order to get a positive outcome for the Chow. It got so out of hand a different moderator felt they needed to lock it.

Say what ever you want about me. I will be the grownup and refrain from calling you names back. Leave if you want. Some would miss you, and others would be relieved, I am sure. Your choice.

BTW, I did not pull all that disagreed. Go back and look. And also note, I pulled my posts as well...huh...

[sweetpea]

Well......I kind of agree with Jeff. When Gracie was a puppy, she was scared to death to have a stranger hold her. She didnt bite but I feel like had she got scared enough of the person holding her she might have. I decided I wasnt going to put her through it and stopped allowing her to be held by strangers. I'd let people pet her, but I held her, not the stranger. She is nearly 3 years old, she is selective about what stranger can tough her, but she knows how to act around them. She hasnt an aggressive bone in her body. Maybe had I let strangers hold her against her will she might have decided it wasnt that bad and maybe would have grown into a chow who would have let anyone and everyone tough her. Or, she might have paniced and ended up biting someone because I wasnt listening to her when she was trying to say its to much.

[TJordan]

Well now my posts in the other thread look a little silly and perhaps make me sound nuts. Mine were in repsonse to the people calling the chow Aggressive. Now that is removed mine just sound like a lunatic. Thanks

But I completly agree with what Jeff & Sweetpea are saying. Nobody agreed that it was acceptable behavior. But the truth is that if the chowling is feeling stressed enough to bite (if that is what happened) then as the owners we need to know our dogs and their capacity to tolerate others. I have a chow who will never like most people. I fought it at first but I do know that my responsiblity is to Butters not the person who wants to pet Butters no matter the cost.

Also, I really think it is a stretch to say that Jeff ran off the lady who was trying to rehome. There were several people in on that.

[kingalls]

"My husbands bestfriendd's dad...who is also a dog lover...picked Jack up and sweet jack bit the crap out of him!! any suggestions on how to stop this behavior....other than a beware of dog sign.."

a best friend's dad picked up Jack...doesn't describe the circumstance, how was Jack picked up, was Jack surprised? did the Dad make friends first before picking him up? I think that there was alot of assumptions made based on very little information. I think that we need to get the whole story before we decide that the Chow puppy is being aggressive and it's headed down the wrong path unless some extensive corrective measures are taken...

We fall into more than one different type of camps here. I think we do what works for our personal life style. DH and I are not inclined toward the social life style - i.e., a lot of people coming over for visits. So when we have visitors, we don't expect our furkids to behave like everyone that shows up is a friend. At the same time, when we take them for walks, they aren't baring teeth and wanting to attack
If Jade expects Jack to behave differently - again, I don't know the circumstance - then she needs to take action to go heavy with training and socialization.

When I was trying to rescue that Shih Tsu the other day, she was trying to bite me when I was trying to pick her up. She didn't know me, didn't know what I was trying to do - she was in survival mode. I don't blame her for reacting that way and I certainly wouldn't say she was aggressive and needed behavior modification.

Ask yourself how you would behave if someone you didn't know came up and picked you up in a bear hug?

[IliamnasQuest]

Jeff, you are given to such hysterical reactions - kind of odd for someone without a uterus (and before anyone reacts to that, "uterus" comes from the Greek word "hystera" which means womb - and that's why removal of the uterus is called a hysterectomy - which then leads us to the word hysteria because of the similarity).

Comparing me to Hitler just because I believe in the better qualities of the chow temperament? You are just so darn misguided and kind of sad. I'm not sure why anyone listens to you because in all honesty I have never seen you post anything of value when it comes to advice about the breed. You just CAN'T get a true concept of a breed from a single dog and that's what you're trying to do. Every chow is supposed to be just like Pekoe, and by pushing that on people you excuse every time Pekoe has a nasty attitude. You've chosen what you want your dog to be and encouraged that in her, but please give other people the benefit of intelligence. Most don't WANT a dog to growl and bite at people. Most realize the consequences, especially if the dog ends up biting a child. And most realize that the public perception of the breed gets worse every time they see a chow that acts in an aggressive manner.

I've never said a chow is mean and stupid to ANYONE, and in fact I promote the breed as intelligent and capable. It has nothing to do with meeting my standards - it's what the breed is SUPPOSED to be (according to the experts who actually worked on developing the chow as an established breed). It just astounds me that your ego is such that you think you know more than the experts. The people on this forum love their chows, and that's a wonderful thing. But the best thing for the breed overall is to try to make sure our chows are not fearful, untouchable and aggressive. And for SURE a 10 week old puppy should not be that way - I have NO doubt the breeder is at fault, but hopefully with the right handling the person who originally posted can help her puppy understand that people are not to be feared and therefore not to be treated with aggression.

I see you had to scrape bottom for insults .. *LOL* .. I have no problem with my dogs watching me when I eat and don't feel like I have to control their every movement - is that what YOU'RE now doing? I could tell them to go lay down and they would, but it doesn't bother me. Seems quite odd that you scream bloody murder about me training my dogs to have manners and then try to show me up by saying that you tell your dog to go away when you eat. You're starting to sound like a control freak, Jeff. Isn't that a tad bit hypocritic considering your "expert" views on training? *chuckling*

If you follow through with your melodramatic exit, have a great life.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[Auddymay]

I don't disagree that we need to make sure our Chows are safe from other people, and that the chowling in question may have bit out of fear. As Melanie said, the owner had expressed earlier her Chowling had been aggressive, and she wondered how to stop the behavior. I left the other opinions in the post, because they gave the point of view expressed above. Saying things like the following does not help a bit-
Try giving the Chow a break, Why does everything a Chow does have to be a major catastrophe and due to abuse and bad breeding. Jesus you have a guard dog, every book, article, post no matter what is written about a Chow says Chows are Leary of strangers. They are basically a one person/ Immediate family breed. I wouldn't stop your Chow and daughter's relationship and start keeping the two separated you are just going to cause more problems down the line. The Chow doesn't like non-house hold people picking it up no big deal there is nothing to worry about with your daughter. If these Dawg experts would start learning the breed they think they know so much they wouldn't be scaring the hell out of people all the time, all they are doing is contributing to the bad rep Chows have already... Don't get all caught up in these dog theories its all complete bull...that spells bite if pushed, not to you or your daughter but anyone he's not comfortable with but thats only temporary until he is settled in.

Becky, you took measures to make sure Gracie was not put in a situation where she would bite your grandchildren. As we all should, if that is a fear we have. Saying a Chow won't bite it's family members (remember, he is 10 weeks old, and the family is hardly established for this pup) could be dangerous advice. Take a look at the photo of the little boy holding the puppy in the photo section. What advice do we give Jade if the Chowling bites that little boy? Oops? Closely monitoring the child/chowling interactions is a good idea. That is what Becky did with Gracie. When she sensed Gracie was getting overwhelmed, she wisely separated the grandkids and Gracie.

Maybe I was too quick to split the topic. But I don't think so. I had just finished reading the post where the person looking to rehome was run out on a rail. Now, Jade was asking for help, and it was going the way of the rehome post. Practical advice was what was sought, not soap boxing.

I don't let anyone touch Lily, for Lily's sake. She is not comfortable with it. Avoidance is a good tactic to keep our Chows from biting. That was why I didn't split those opinions off. I will fix the one I missed! In the end, splitting was good, since it allows us to talk about the issue of biting without making the original poster feel bad for asking about how to stop this from happening.

[IliamnasQuest]

You know, I never recommended to anyone to try to force a dog to accept being handled - what I have always recommended for a shy dog (regardless of breed) is for people to work on socialization slowly and in a positive way. I don't think that most people WANT to have a dog that growls and bites, and working toward teaching their dog that it's not a bad thing for people to be around them is not going to stop a dog from being a good guard dog. I have a huge concern when someone posts that their puppy "bites the heck" out of someone regardless of why - unless the person picking the puppy up did something deliberately to hurt it, there is NO justification for a puppy acting that way. Since the OP in the other thread didn't say the pup was hurt when picked up, I'm guessing that the pup was afraid and acted on that fear. And the OP has a very valid concern and ASKED FOR HELP.

People can give their anecdotal explanations of why their own chows can't be handled, but really - is that truly a valid reason for someone else to say "oh, then it's OKAY for my puppy to be fearful and to bite"? Or is it a better plan to try to help that person find a way to get the puppy more socialized, more accepting and less fearful? I understand that those of you with chows that are not very friendly love your dogs, but please - don't excuse your dog's behavior as "normal" just because it's a chow. I have been around literally hundreds of chows (at nationals) and didn't get growled at once even though I visited with many many chows. Poor temperament in the chow is the sign of a poor breeder most of the time, and that shouldn't be excused. Yes, LOVE your chows but also realize that just because your chow may not be accepting of people it surely doesn't mean that others should just be complacent when theirs bites.

I don't think that corrections are the first line of defense when you have a dog that wants to bite, but I also know that allowing it to continue without trying to modify the behavior can end up really badly. Thousands of dogs are euthanized every year and the majority of those are euthanized because of behavior problems. I do behavior consultations with aggressive dogs and it's a difficult situation for everyone, but with some good handling and desensitization many aggression problems (regardless of why) can be turned around. And yes, some dogs can live good long safe lives even when they aren't people friendly because their owners manage their dogs successfully. If that's what you choose to do and you do it successfully, then more power to you. It's good to be proactive with our dogs, and I don't encourage people to grab my dogs up and hug them. But I also try to prepare them for that possibility in case something like that ever happens. I try to teach them that people are GOOD.

I always wonder what would happen if the owners died or the dogs managed to get out and run off, and HAD to be handled by someone else. Does that mean a death sentence because the original owner didn't bother to try to change their dog's attitude? I feel that my dogs could go to a new owner without a problem, and that if animal control picked them up they would be able to handle them. I would be devastated if my inability to help my dogs live without fear/aggression meant that they were killed. I respect that some other people have concerns like this too, and when someone posts asking for HELP I do try to help them.

So to answer the question posed in the subject line - except in the case of true imminent attack or danger, there's NO valid reason for a chow to bite. Especially not a puppy.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[Auddymay]

Tammy, I went back and read your posts. They make sense left ther, really they do! If Jade has a chowling like Butters, finding out that she won't be able to change his behavior is a good thing to know. I think you did though- remember he was a good boy when he got loose?

Karen, I agree the recent rescue was scared, as was Wyllow when she was mishandled during transport. They were using instinct, and that is not their personality in a non-stressful situation. Whether Jack was acting out of stress or not, I don't know. I wonder just what is happening there, since she posted before about aggression. I asked for more details. It could mean that Jack just does not have any bite inhibition, and that can be worked on, and should be worked on with puppies of any breed.

I have been meaning to ask also- how was Mr N at the chowfests? He looked like Lily in the photos at the on-lead fests. Just watching, no touchy!

[Laura]

Just a thought...on 'biting'
If people would respond to OP with their own advice and refrain from attacking others members advice there wouldn't be near as much in-fighting on here or people leaving in a huff. I for one came home yesterday and read responses and felt attacked and foolish for my own advice and own feelings on the OP's issue. I used the word 'aggressive' as did the original poster so I wonder if she also felt attacked and foolish and won't come here anymore. Just a thought. Now let me duck and run for cover.

[TJordan]

What I don't like to hear is things like Mel has just stated. If you choose not to change the dogs behavior. I personally have tried many ways to change Butters behavior. I have exhausted the dog trainers in my area (which seemed to make the problem worse). It is not always a choice we make. I certianly didn't make the choice for Butters to be the way he is. He has issues and I am still trying to fix his issues. It is not just black and white. The dog misbehaves because the owner allows it. It is thinking like that, that puts dogs in the position of being put down. Some people think well my dog doesn't act the proper way we should kill it. I don't like that thinking. Not everyone has the perfect stepford chow, and they shouldn't be made to feel like it is soley their fault that the dog behaves that way.

Laura, I don't think anyone was attacking you. I certainly wasn't. I was just trying to make the point that at 10 weeks old how aggressive can he be.

[sit_by_the_beach]

My dog experience consists of two chows. My late chow Luna chose her own friends. The pet supply store owner who arranged the rescue of Luna was her friend no. one. Immediate family members were next on Luna's list of 'good' people. A few neighbours on my street were allowed to handle, pet Luna. All were of her choice. Certain neighbours she simply ignored.
My present chow Mikki allows all of the above to handle her. A few neighbours have called Mikki----Luna and then quickly corrected themselves. Why is it that my second chow has the same preference for certain folks as my first chow? I have noticed too since Mikki is now a 'mature' 4 year old, she is becoming more like my first chow? Neither chow has ever bit anyone. Both chows have growled at some strangers. It does worry me at times---what if----what if I should suddenly get ill and someone needs to handle my chow before my son gets here. I let as many strangers as possible near my chow, but it doesn't always work. My new adoptee a mutt, resident here for one week, is beginning to show chow behaviour, very protective of me and the house, double trouble should anyone have to enter the house while I am out.

[jacqui]

I adopted Kai from a shelter.he was 4-5 months old,an owner surreder.he was already labeled a 'biter'.they wanted a chow experienced owner for him.if not they were already talking about him being PTS.
I thought those people are crazy.how can you label a puppy a biter?but guess what,he was a biter.I continue to work with him on this issue.Kai is not a mean chow.he is a fear biter.he would never let anyone other than myself pick him up.at the vets he has to be muzzled.but he can be very sweet.kisses strangers,etc.
I think everyone has to know their own chow and their limits.yes, work on their issues with them,but sometimes they will only progress so far.