Pain medication or not???

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:07 pm

Ok, Mia came home today from being spayed at the vet with pain medication called Previcox, (an NSAIDs).

I spent all day researching only to find that many sources say, why wouldn't you give your pup whose in pain some pain medecine, and others say that many dogs (over 3000) have died from complications and side effects of this medication and they wouldn't consider this.

So, after an agonizing day, I have decided that on every important issue, there are too many sides. (Kind of like the bloat issue.)

I give up. I know I should go with what I really feel is correct. But, I believe that Mia shouldn't be in unnecessary pain when I have pain meds, or the other hand, I am terrified of giving her something that there is so way of knowing how it will affect her.

Jeez...

Ok, I am too scared of the medicine's side effects. So, I am not giving her anything.

It's so hard to try to be educated, it just seems to confuse me more.

What do you all think?

vicster605 · Post by **vicster605** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:12 pm

Mia,
I soooo understand your confussion....Kearra was spayed 10 days ago and they didn't give her anything for pain...she looked a little uncomfortable for a day. The flip side to the pain meds. and I forget who told me this....is if they don't have some discomfort then they tend to overdue. I understand that way of thinking....too. Kearra was fine..without them....except for her issue with Kyra that is

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:16 pm

I don't like meds but if worse comes to worse maybe cut the pill in half or give her less dosage. Only if really needed though.

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 8:18 pm

Oh thanks Vicster605.

I am really in agony over this.

But, I feel much better that you didn't give Kearra any pain killers and she was OK. I just can't understand why the pain med is so strong that it's side effects can kill.

Several sites said that the NSAIDs caused over 20,000 serious emergency occurances and over 3000 deaths. None of them said out of how many dogs had taken the medecine, so I can't tell what the percentage is.

But, I just can't risk it.

I will watch her, hold her, hug her, make her comfortable or take her to an emergency vet, but it seems as if the dogs who died on the NSAIDs didn't have time to get to vet. So I am not taking a chance.

Whew!

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 10:35 pm

You know how people want their Chows to get good citizen certified. We should have a Good Chow owner Certification. I think Mia Mom should get a good Chow owner nomination for taking it upon herself to check the meds out first even though they were prescribed by a vet and deciding not to give them to Mia, Putting the safety of Mia first.

Lets all give Mia's mom a round of applause, Wave to the folks and take bow Mia.
-------
You think maybe drinking to much caffine at night might explain it, I have two empty 2 litter bottles of diet coke sitting next to me.

coleywoley · Post by **coleywoley** » Wed Nov 28, 2007 11:57 pm

Kearra is vicster's chow Jeff. Mia is the chow who came home...I think.

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 12:23 am

coleywoley wrote:Kearra is vicster's chow Jeff. Mia is the chow who came home...I think.

Your right, I changed it but owell give them both a round of applause, I'm Sure vicster has done something honorable. Oh yeah she kicked her relitives out of the pool area, that deserves honoable mention.

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 4:17 am

Most of us should get honourable mention. Vicster first, a Katrina survivor,
karin

vicster605 · Post by **vicster605** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 5:50 am

Nope, you had it right the first time, I don't deserve credit for not giving meds. before checking them out first, Mia's Mom does

I wasn't given any to begin with...the Vet didn't give Kearra any, so the decision was made for me

So Mia's Mom you are a GREAT CHOW MOM!!!!
But I agree with Jeff.......never give your Chow a med without checking it out first and asking yourself if it is REALLY NECESSARY and IS IT WORTH RISKING THE POSSIBLE SIDE EFFECTS?? That goes for HUMANS TOO

Just because a MD gives you a Prescription doesn't mean that the MD is GOD and you HAVE TO do as your told without making an INFORMED decision.....What is this for?? Is it REALLY necessary?? What are the possible side effects?? Do I really want to take this??

Thanks for honorable mention for being a Katrina survivor Karin.....Nice to hear since I spent the entire day yesterday until 8 pm last night putting down grout in my best friends kitchen who lost her home.....MY EVERYTHING HURTS this morning, some of these things I FORGOT I HAD!!! And I had NO CLUE what I was doing....but always try and HELP.... [:D]Can anyone say 1000 squats in 1 day makes for some sore stuff

I can't think of ONE Chow parent on this site that isn't a good Chow Parent....can you??

How is Mia feeling today?? Give her

from us

puddinglove · Post by **puddinglove** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 7:30 am

Yes yes, ALWAYS check out meds and side effects before taking or giving any!!! I'm not a fan of most MDs... worked with some bad apples before, most who think they're GODS.

Totally not trying to make a blanket statement about all doctors out there, but advocating being educated consumers! Hats off to Mia's mom for being one!

I love Pudding, and it was hard seeing her uncomfortable for an evening after being spayed, but I felt like I was being a better parent withholding the drugs and keeping a close eye on her. In the end, she didn't need the meds.

bama · Post by **bama** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 2:42 pm

I think you have to judge each chowkid on an individual
basis.
If you see that they are miserable and or stressed...pacing, whining, and/or
licking the area, or pawing at the area,
then I feel it is better to help lower the level of stress.
Pain meds is not always the answer.
Since I already knew how Colonel responded to Benedryl...
that is what I gave him after each of his entropian surgeries. It was enough to take the edge off and help him relax enough to sleep.

Grab · Post by **Grab** » Thu Nov 29, 2007 8:48 pm

I don't give pain meds after spays/neuters. I've seen far too many dogs return after running around willy nilly having given themselves hernias, stitch irritations, etc. The clinic I work for gives two pain injections the day of surgery, one right before going home and which lasts several hours. That's usually more than enough.

As a note, I also took no pain meds when home after an appendectomy. No double standards here

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 6:59 pm

Oh you all are so sweet...thank you.

I don't deserve it, I tell you I was a nervous wreck. I haven't left her side since I brought her home Wed afternoon. I even had to put her in the car on a blanket when I had to go to docs appt.

If she had shown me that she had any pain, I would have caved.

I am so happy to say that she seems absolutely as perky as before...in fact, it has been hard to keep her from jumping around. I am amazed. And, I am so glad that I didn't give her any of the medication. She truly didn't need it. (Luckily though, I also have the numbers and map prints directly to 4 emergency hospitals. I have also taken Mia to three of them for practice runs and so they could meed her.) So I was prepared.

But, I will tell you, it is so difficult to make those kind of decisions.

Anyway the incision looks great and Mia is impossible to keep down. She really came through like a trooper. Of course her mommy needs to take up drinking now. I am exhausted.

Vicster605, I don't know the story of your being a Katrina survivor, but it sounds like you are an amazingly kind person to help put grout in someone's kitchen all day. So, I am sending you applause and a big hug so being such a wonderful friend. You are the greatest.

And Jeff, thank you. I really couldn't have gone through this well without you guys. I cannot begin to tell you all how much you teach me.

Many times I don't write because I am afraid to sound ignorant and I am too busy learning. But, I am honoured to be able to learn from you all...Jeff, vicster605, Bama, Melanie and (I knew I shouldn't have started to name) everyone.

Thank you.

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Fri Nov 30, 2007 7:05 pm

OK, I don't want to sound sappy now, but you ALL are the greatest CHOW MOMS AND DADS ever.

So, of course, I am learning from the best.

(Am I kissing too much heiny??? Well, it's true and you know it.)

vtxandy · Post by **vtxandy** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 3:34 pm

I really hope this helps you.

Tinker - purebred chow chow, 65lbs, at 10 yrs old (he lived over 15 + years total) had what our trusted vet said was the worst case of hip displasia he had seen since vet school. Obviuosly painful!

Trust me, I'm an old broke down x trucker with bad spinal problems and it's horrible to be in pain.

Our little friends can not talk to us and they are such little troopers going through procedures like yours.

TINKER TOOK RYMADIL (spelling may be incorrect) he took 2 pills inside a piece of cheese each day for over 6 years. IT REALLY REALLY REALLY HELPED. We could tell. You could read his reaction and relief. We may not have had him so long without it. And trust me, I'm just as nervous giving my son medicne as you are!

We kept regular blood, urine and fecal sample tests every 4 months with him and he never had any NEGATIVE REACTION to Rymadil. Liver, kidney, blood cell (red and white) were always within limits. I trust this medicine and would NEVER give a referral for something that would harm one of our God given chow angels.

Merry Christmas!
Andy
408-532-9131

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 7:29 pm

Oh Andy,

Thank you so much! I feel terrible, I didn't give Mia any medicine. I guess I should have. I watched her so carefully for any sign of pain and truly found none. But, had I seen so much of an inkling, I would have given her the medecine immediately.

I may have done the wrong thing. I hope to God she wasn't in any pain.

It can be so tough watching them go through medical things.

Thank you.

coleywoley · Post by **coleywoley** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:44 pm

After my c section I felt horrible and I have a pretty high tolerance to pain. To see Ginger come home after she was spayed you wouldn't have even realized she had stitches in her belly unless she rolled over and showed you. It amazed me how little it seemed to bother her.

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Fri Dec 07, 2007 8:52 pm

It is amazing. It was the same with Mia.

She was licking and wagging her tail, it was hard to keep her quiet.

IliamnasQuest · Post by **IliamnasQuest** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 1:24 am

I think pain meds have very valid uses. Some dogs really need to take pain meds while others have a higher tolerance for pain and seem to do okay with it. It never used to be standard procedure to put dogs on pain meds for spays and neuters but I think that the concept of pain management has been brought up quite a bit in the veterinary world and the vets are trying to provide more conscientious pain management these days. Many vets actually give an injection to help with pain the day of the spay and then send home the pills too.

If I had a young, healthy bitch I probably wouldn't give her pain meds unless she was really uncomfortable. You would expect some discomfort and that usually helps keep them quiet for a day or so. But occasionally there's one that is crying and pacing and really feeling the pain, and that dog could benefit from some medication.

When it comes to old dogs, I don't hold back too much. Kylee, at 16, is on a daily dose of Deramax (similar to Rimadyl). It's 1/4 of a 100mg pill, a low dose, but it has given her the ability to get up easier, trot around the yard, and even bounce around trying to play once in awhile. Before I started her on that she was so stiff she just kind of hobbled around. At her age, if she goes into renal failure we won't know if it's the medication or just her body shutting down and in all honesty it won't matter. I want her to be comfortable for the time she's got left. So she gets her drugs every day and she has been getting them for a few months now and doing well.

My oldest shepherd is going on 12 years old and she has days when she is stiff and groans and moans a bit. On those days I slip her a half tablet and an hour or so later she's sleeping quietly again. Will it shorten her life? Perhaps .. but I would rather she have a bit shorter life and have it be comfortable and quality, then to have a longer life that's full of pain.

I tell you guys, it sucks to hurt. I wake up every morning with multiple joints that are swollen and painful. I often can't close my hands because my fingers are so bad. My shoulders feel like someone's been using a sledge hammer on them all night long, and sometimes my knees, feet and ankles have shooting pains with every movement. And this is how I live every single day. Without pain meds I'd never get out of bed. I don't want my dogs to ever feel like this. It's my responsibility to give them a quality of life even if it means I get to have less time with them.

Tough subject right now .. my Mom's dog (Trick's half brother) is having real problems with his hips (he's got cauda equina) and the pain meds/anti-inflammatories aren't helping much now. He may not even make it to Christmas. He fell down the stairs earlier today because he wanted out and didn't wait for the lights to be turned on, and then laid there and cried. Mom doesn't want him in pain but the thought of having him put down is just devastating. I'm taking his Christmas toys over to him tomorrow so that he can have them now because I'm not sure he'll be here on Christmas. I'm really going to miss him - he's such a character and such a part of the family.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Mia · Post by **Mia** » Sun Dec 09, 2007 5:11 pm

Melanie, I am so sorry to hear what happened to your mom's dog. There are tears in my eyes to imagine him falling down stairs. What a sweet idea to give him his toys early. Not that any time is ever good, but Christmas is such a difficult time to watch your loved one in pain. It must be so hard for your mom, what a horrible decision to face. I would do the same as your mom is probably doing and try to love him and make whatever time he has comfortable. I just couldn't bear the alternative.

I hope he lives way past Christmas and I hope he gets a bunch of joy playing with his toys.

Oh, I agree 100%, I never want to see an animal in pain, and believe me if I saw an animal in pain I would give him whatever I had to in order to ease that.

And, believe me, if I had seen any pain in Mia, I would have given her those pills immediately. The NSAIDS are probably lifesavers for easing pain. I just didn't want to give them to her automatically after I read about them.

But, the fact that there are more and more veterinary pain relievers is a great thing.

Ok, now I am full blown crying...