Hudson needs some healthy chub
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Hudson needs some healthy chub
Hi all! So I just noticed the other day that Hudson is way too skinny and I of course feel the need to fatten her up. I can very much feel her spine and individual ribs. I can tell if she were shaved, she would look like skin and bones. She was only eating fresh meats and broth and pulverized veggies for the first few days since she refused to eat the kibble, but now she is eating the kibble (Beneful is what we have for her from her previous home) with a little meat broth. She has been eating probably 2 cups a day plus a can of salmon or a half cup of bison or the like, for the past few days which seems like a good amount for her size (35-ish lbs, not counting the 5 or more she needs to gain) and the amount of exercise she gets (two 30 minute walks/runs at least plus lots of running and leaping in our back yard). What do you guys think? Should I just keep encouraging her to eat (she will only eat if I'm in the room with her, which is a whole other can of worms...heh) or supplement until she's at a normal weight? If so, with what? We haven't taken her to the vet just yet because she is just way too people/strange place anxious, so we don't know if she has any parasites or the like contributing to this, but I can't imagine she does. She only licks her nethers after going potty, and has a good amount of energy.
Just looking for some encouragement I guess. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when we adopted her, but I'm so glad we did. I love her so much already and she is definitely showing her gratitude. More threads to come!
-Victoria
Just looking for some encouragement I guess. I had no idea what I was getting myself into when we adopted her, but I'm so glad we did. I love her so much already and she is definitely showing her gratitude. More threads to come!
-Victoria
Beneful contains such poor quality ingredients, its name should be changed to Baneful. It's mostly corn, and wouldn't help create calming brain chemistry either. It's important to slowly gain weight by building muscle rather than fat, to help protect the joints. Consider switching to a meat-based premium quality kibble, and there are numerous posts in this forum's archives on supplementing with fresh foods, etc.
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Chow Chow Mama
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Thanks Kiwani. I do plan to switch to a better food as soon as I find the one we are going to use permanently. I figured I would let her finish the stuff she has been eating, but I wasn't thinking about the shorter term affects on her adjustment (re: corn).
I've tried the search feature on this site a number of times but I am apparently doing something wrong....hence starting a thread. Heh.
Good to know about building muscle, but does this hold true even for undernourished pups? I would think a good deal of the "healthy fats" (fish?) would be good....but either way, meats would be best for muscle building, yes? You say a high protein kibble, but what benefit does all the extra stuff really have (besides convenience of course)? I guess I just want to make sure she builds up enough energy storage that if she goes on a strike, she won't starve to death, you know? I guess I'll just get a decent kibble and keep giving her meats and see how she does over the next couple weeks.
I think I'm as worried about her as I was when my son was a baby. Thanks again
-Victoria
I've tried the search feature on this site a number of times but I am apparently doing something wrong....hence starting a thread. Heh.
Good to know about building muscle, but does this hold true even for undernourished pups? I would think a good deal of the "healthy fats" (fish?) would be good....but either way, meats would be best for muscle building, yes? You say a high protein kibble, but what benefit does all the extra stuff really have (besides convenience of course)? I guess I just want to make sure she builds up enough energy storage that if she goes on a strike, she won't starve to death, you know? I guess I'll just get a decent kibble and keep giving her meats and see how she does over the next couple weeks.
I think I'm as worried about her as I was when my son was a baby. Thanks again
-Victoria
A good food can make all the difference. Legend is doing very well on Solid Gold Wolf King..not sure if it's the bison or the salmon, but he cleans his bowl each time and looks for more..which is almost unheard of for him. He's an 'eat to live, not live to eat' kind of guy.
I've heard of many dogs doing well on both Canidae and Innova, as well.
I've heard of many dogs doing well on both Canidae and Innova, as well.
Re: "Good to know about building muscle, but does this hold true even for undernourished pups?"
Undernourished dogs, and those who have been over-stressed, often have lost some muscle for fuel. It's important to rebuild that muscle first to protect the joints, rather than being in a hurry to just add pounds, which can strain the joints.
Re: "You say a high protein kibble..."
I mentioned premium meat-based brands, but not a high protein performance formula. I usually recommend the mid 20% protein range formulas, rotating between Solid Gold "Wolf King" and regular or large breed Innova, depending on what's going on healthwise, plus fresh foods daily. The Solid Gold has less fat, and no added animal fat, so you might prefer the Innova which has higher fat for now...or choose a similar premium quality range brand.
Re: "I've tried the search feature on this site a number of times but I am apparently doing something wrong...."
Unless you chose the right keyword to bring up specific threads, it's probably easier to just review the back pages of specific forums. Is there something specific you're looking for?
Undernourished dogs, and those who have been over-stressed, often have lost some muscle for fuel. It's important to rebuild that muscle first to protect the joints, rather than being in a hurry to just add pounds, which can strain the joints.
Re: "You say a high protein kibble..."
I mentioned premium meat-based brands, but not a high protein performance formula. I usually recommend the mid 20% protein range formulas, rotating between Solid Gold "Wolf King" and regular or large breed Innova, depending on what's going on healthwise, plus fresh foods daily. The Solid Gold has less fat, and no added animal fat, so you might prefer the Innova which has higher fat for now...or choose a similar premium quality range brand.
Re: "I've tried the search feature on this site a number of times but I am apparently doing something wrong...."
Unless you chose the right keyword to bring up specific threads, it's probably easier to just review the back pages of specific forums. Is there something specific you're looking for?
Well, she started turning her nose up at the "baneful" again, so I figured it was high time to start forking out the big bucks. We ended up with Evo "small bites" because as far as I can tell, she has some sensory issue with big hard chunks of food. She likes the cat food she got ahold of, and it seemed to be more about the littler bites than anything else.
So a high protein formula isn't typically good for chows because of their low activity level, yes? Would this hold true for Hudson being a border collie mix? She has quite a high energy level.
At any rate, she loves her new food, which I'm very happy about, and I got some lamb and rice Innova wet food to mix with it in the mornings when she doesn't want to eat. I can see that she has more muscle in her legs than a week and a half ago, but her mid section is skin and bones, so hopefully she'll continue to build up some more bulk.
I also wanted to ask: I've been buying ground beef hearts (hormone/antibiotic free, grass fed) and I just cook it slowly on the stove leaving some pink. How often can I give this to her? It seems like it would be pretty rich, especially on top of the Evo. I would love to feed her more fish, but that get's expensive...I would feel terrible going to the conventional grocery store to get that when we are all eating from the co-op and such. Are fish heads and other parts people would normally discard good for dogs?
Thanks for reading all of my questions!
-Victoria
So a high protein formula isn't typically good for chows because of their low activity level, yes? Would this hold true for Hudson being a border collie mix? She has quite a high energy level.
At any rate, she loves her new food, which I'm very happy about, and I got some lamb and rice Innova wet food to mix with it in the mornings when she doesn't want to eat. I can see that she has more muscle in her legs than a week and a half ago, but her mid section is skin and bones, so hopefully she'll continue to build up some more bulk.
I also wanted to ask: I've been buying ground beef hearts (hormone/antibiotic free, grass fed) and I just cook it slowly on the stove leaving some pink. How often can I give this to her? It seems like it would be pretty rich, especially on top of the Evo. I would love to feed her more fish, but that get's expensive...I would feel terrible going to the conventional grocery store to get that when we are all eating from the co-op and such. Are fish heads and other parts people would normally discard good for dogs?
Thanks for reading all of my questions!
-Victoria
Re: "Would this hold true for Hudson being a border collie mix? She has quite a high energy level."
You'll soon know if the formula is too rich for her activity levels, by the rate she forms any flab.
Re: 'Beef hearts' It seems like it would be pretty rich, especially on top of the Evo....I would love to feed her more fish, but that get's expensive.."
That's another reason why I prefer the mid 20% protein formulas, rather than the 'high performance', they allow you some leeway adding fresh meats, egg, fish, etc., plus the cooled broth from the fresh cooked meat not only helps digestion, it would allow her to more easily crunch larger kibble.
As for the fish, the health benefit is mostly in the anti-inflammatory omega-3 fat. You might offer fish oil capsules in the meantime.
You'll soon know if the formula is too rich for her activity levels, by the rate she forms any flab.
Re: 'Beef hearts' It seems like it would be pretty rich, especially on top of the Evo....I would love to feed her more fish, but that get's expensive.."
That's another reason why I prefer the mid 20% protein formulas, rather than the 'high performance', they allow you some leeway adding fresh meats, egg, fish, etc., plus the cooled broth from the fresh cooked meat not only helps digestion, it would allow her to more easily crunch larger kibble.
As for the fish, the health benefit is mostly in the anti-inflammatory omega-3 fat. You might offer fish oil capsules in the meantime.
Have you considered investigating feeding Hudson a raw foods diet. No matter what sort of commercial food you buy her, a raw foods (prey model) will be much cheaper AND you can feed her from the co-op, including the beef hearts (which don't need to be cooked) and the fish heads (if she will eat them - again raw) and so on. Any organic source of meat and meaty bones is a bonus.
FWIW, I spend approximately $35 per week for food for 7 adult Chows - they are fed organic chicken frames, lamb necks, lamb hearts, beef hearts, green tripe, ox tails, kangaroo tails, whole fish (whiting), rabbit and whatever else I can get in bulk and cheap, as well as bones will little meat on them (this is for recreation & teeth cleaning - NO knuckle bones), along with fruit and veg from the local organic farm (particularly cheap are those items that are gone just beyond being sellable). The fruit & veg is pureed and fed with about 60 gms (small fist size) of meat and my dogs are all healthy and happy.
When weight (too much or too little) is an issue, I can either reduce or increase the food as necessary.
There are some really good sites thet address raw feeding - personally I would suggest starting with k9rawdiets.com - ignore the products and go for the articles.
Cheers,
Judith-Ann
Senge' Chows, VIC (Australia)
FWIW, I spend approximately $35 per week for food for 7 adult Chows - they are fed organic chicken frames, lamb necks, lamb hearts, beef hearts, green tripe, ox tails, kangaroo tails, whole fish (whiting), rabbit and whatever else I can get in bulk and cheap, as well as bones will little meat on them (this is for recreation & teeth cleaning - NO knuckle bones), along with fruit and veg from the local organic farm (particularly cheap are those items that are gone just beyond being sellable). The fruit & veg is pureed and fed with about 60 gms (small fist size) of meat and my dogs are all healthy and happy.
When weight (too much or too little) is an issue, I can either reduce or increase the food as necessary.
There are some really good sites thet address raw feeding - personally I would suggest starting with k9rawdiets.com - ignore the products and go for the articles.
Cheers,
Judith-Ann
Senge' Chows, VIC (Australia)
Judith-Ann
Sengé Chows, VIC (Australia)
Sengé Chows, VIC (Australia)
Yes, I've definitely been back and forth about the raw diet. Her bowel movements seemed most normal when I was chopping up the leftover parts of our fruits and veggies and mixing it with cooked fish and raw ground beef hearts. Then, I ran out of fruit and veggie parts and just gave her the raw meat and she had diarhea. I started cooking it to see if that would make a difference and mixing it with the EVO and that helped. I like the idea of giving her the kibble mixed in right now, since she doesn't really like eating during the day, but will munch on a whole bunch of kibble late at night when she's trying to relax (maybe not a great habit, but the girl needs to eat). And I've read mixing raw with kibble isn't a great idea... Sooo, it's basically been a lot of experimenting. I am out of town for Thanksgiving right now, and my brother is watching her (she's finally warmed up to him a bit), and I gave him a rib eye bone with some meat on it to give her for something special tomorrow. It's been hard to find decent meat parts, though. Everyone just grinds everything up and sells it that way. The conventional grocery store meat dept. has some (where I got the bone) but I hate that she's eating meat that I would never touch. Ay yi yi. I'll definitely check out that link. Maybe they have some pointers on where to get everything. I'm sure a local organic farm would be a good starting place. Or just letting her loose in the woods to catch those squirrels she desires oh so much...heh. So why no knuckle bones? I almost got some of those thinking it would last longer...is that why? They are just too hard?
I know that cooked meat isn't ideal, but is there anything that makes it actively harmful? I try to cook it slowly on low heat, and I know that helps, but maybe if the enzymes get denatured in any kind of heating, it's actually more difficult to digest? Thanks for any insight. I'm mostly just thinking outloud and will definitely do some more active research when I get a minute.
Hope everyone is enjoying Thanksgiving with their chows! I miss Hudson, and wish she could have come with us.
-Victoria
I know that cooked meat isn't ideal, but is there anything that makes it actively harmful? I try to cook it slowly on low heat, and I know that helps, but maybe if the enzymes get denatured in any kind of heating, it's actually more difficult to digest? Thanks for any insight. I'm mostly just thinking outloud and will definitely do some more active research when I get a minute.
Hope everyone is enjoying Thanksgiving with their chows! I miss Hudson, and wish she could have come with us.
-Victoria
Hi Victoria,
Are you a vegetarian and is this why you are squeamish over feeding her meat? FWIW, so is my husband and so was I for a very long time. However, I've always fed my dogs meat and raw meaty bones because they are more carnivourous than our species and don't do particularly well on a fruit, veg & grain only diet.
Your profile doesn't say where you live; but if you are in the States, there are supermarket chains like Wild Oats (on the West Coast) that carry organic meats. Were I living in the US, however, I would probably contact some of the abbatoirs that process game hunters animals. While I abhor hunting, nevertheless, most game is hormone free/chemical free and truly free range and organic. As well I would try to find the abbatoirs who do the butchering for any organic farms in your area.
The reason your girl got diarrhoea when you were feeding her all meat is because it was too rich and out of balance. If you decide to go to a raw diet for your girl, you need to do your research first. You want about 80% of her diet to be raw meaty bones, about 5-10% meat and about 10-15% fruit & veg (this needs to be pureed because dog's digestive tracts are not as long as ours and they can't break down cellulose efficiently).
No knucle bones - the bones are too dense and can cause broken or cracked teeth.
You might want to consider getting ahold of a booklet called "Switching To Raw" by By Susan K. Johnson - there is a website for it called
http://www.switchingtoraw.com/ but it doesn't say how to get a copy, though you could try the folks at k9rawdiet.com - they may carry it. There is at the Switching to raw site a page of links that might help you find sources - it is http://www.switchingtoraw.com/links.html
Also, on Yahoo there are a number of raw feeding groups, and some of which may a group of raw feeders in your area that will share their information and sources.
Have fun with your Thanksgiving.
All the best,
Are you a vegetarian and is this why you are squeamish over feeding her meat? FWIW, so is my husband and so was I for a very long time. However, I've always fed my dogs meat and raw meaty bones because they are more carnivourous than our species and don't do particularly well on a fruit, veg & grain only diet.
Your profile doesn't say where you live; but if you are in the States, there are supermarket chains like Wild Oats (on the West Coast) that carry organic meats. Were I living in the US, however, I would probably contact some of the abbatoirs that process game hunters animals. While I abhor hunting, nevertheless, most game is hormone free/chemical free and truly free range and organic. As well I would try to find the abbatoirs who do the butchering for any organic farms in your area.
The reason your girl got diarrhoea when you were feeding her all meat is because it was too rich and out of balance. If you decide to go to a raw diet for your girl, you need to do your research first. You want about 80% of her diet to be raw meaty bones, about 5-10% meat and about 10-15% fruit & veg (this needs to be pureed because dog's digestive tracts are not as long as ours and they can't break down cellulose efficiently).
No knucle bones - the bones are too dense and can cause broken or cracked teeth.
You might want to consider getting ahold of a booklet called "Switching To Raw" by By Susan K. Johnson - there is a website for it called
http://www.switchingtoraw.com/ but it doesn't say how to get a copy, though you could try the folks at k9rawdiet.com - they may carry it. There is at the Switching to raw site a page of links that might help you find sources - it is http://www.switchingtoraw.com/links.html
Also, on Yahoo there are a number of raw feeding groups, and some of which may a group of raw feeders in your area that will share their information and sources.
Have fun with your Thanksgiving.
All the best,
Judith-Ann
Sengé Chows, VIC (Australia)
Sengé Chows, VIC (Australia)
Thanks Judith-ann. I'm not squeemish about giving meat, but giving good meat is important. We have co-ops and larger natural food chains around here, but the prices are very high. I really like the idea of contacting the wild game hunters. I'll keep you all posted with more questions when we figure more out.