Chow "obedience" training
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Chow "obedience" training
I think it is about time we get some training for our "Loki". We've had him about a year and a half. Since he was found on the street, we have no idea what his early days were like. He's actually pretty well behaved (except around one of our cats) but I would like him to listen the "first" time...Is there a training style we should avoid? I know many of the pet stores offer training classes, but I'm not sure they work for chows. Is personal training best? We just want to try to get it right. Any input is appreciated!
WEll if your goal is simply to get him to listen you may be in for a long haul. Butters went to obied. school, for 2 1/2 years and still only listens when he feels like it. Just when I think he has come around he becomes a chow again.
Training to Avoid: I would avoid the prong collar, it just pissed Butters off and made him more reactive to everything around him.
He was best with praise, he didn't ususally want treats (depending on his mood) But always got excited when praised.
Training to Avoid: I would avoid the prong collar, it just pissed Butters off and made him more reactive to everything around him.
He was best with praise, he didn't ususally want treats (depending on his mood) But always got excited when praised.
SweetPea Rocks!!
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Victory
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It takes a lot of extensive daily, training to get a chow to listen well, and then there are still times they will do things their way or just ignore you. Melanie has some of the best trained chows known and she says there are times they don't exactly listen, (Melanie is a professional trainer and shows her chows in obeidence, and other things).
Chows are independent and getting them to obey first time every time is really hard. I'd suggest choosing which commands you really, really need them to obey, like come, or heal, or wait. And concentrate on getting them to obey that one out of habit, rewards work the best for chows. Negative things will only make him avoid you.
Chows are independent and getting them to obey first time every time is really hard. I'd suggest choosing which commands you really, really need them to obey, like come, or heal, or wait. And concentrate on getting them to obey that one out of habit, rewards work the best for chows. Negative things will only make him avoid you.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
Thank you SweetPea!
Thank you SweetPea!
Ski,
In short, it's about repetition, patience, and reward.
Even if you take your chow to obedience training, you will have to continue the training on a regular basis.
What do they do diffently than you? They focus on ONE task and repeat it over and over like drill sargents.
You will have better luck if you begin your drills when your chow is in a relaxed state of mind, such as after a good round of excercise.
You already know your chows favorite reward, right?
Treats or his favorite body zone to be scratched?
I'd begin with "sit", because it's so easy.
I wouldn't teach anything else until the "sit" command is learned well.
Search the archives for more details on teaching basic commands. I believe I've written details on this that can be found in the archives?
I can't remember???
And go to Melanie's site, she has details there, as well.
In short, it's about repetition, patience, and reward.
Even if you take your chow to obedience training, you will have to continue the training on a regular basis.
What do they do diffently than you? They focus on ONE task and repeat it over and over like drill sargents.
You will have better luck if you begin your drills when your chow is in a relaxed state of mind, such as after a good round of excercise.
You already know your chows favorite reward, right?
Treats or his favorite body zone to be scratched?
I'd begin with "sit", because it's so easy.
I wouldn't teach anything else until the "sit" command is learned well.
Search the archives for more details on teaching basic commands. I believe I've written details on this that can be found in the archives?
I can't remember???
And go to Melanie's site, she has details there, as well.
**Photo by Sweet Pea.
She has a photogenic memory...really!
How to get a chow to listen - 2 very simple rules:
1. If you want him to do something, encourage him very strongly not to do the thing you want him to do.
2. If you don't want him to do something, try to get him to do the thing you don't want him to do (do this before he gets the idea that this is a fun thing to do on his own).
Add the following to clauses to these 2 simple rules and you have fully trained chow (translation - your chow does whatever the heck he pleases):
First clause - only use two simple rules in absolute emergency - a chow learns very quickly that this is reverse psychology hogwash and becomes extra defiant.
Second clause - Using two simple rules is very tempting, however if you refuse to abide by first clause, prepare for damage control.
1. If you want him to do something, encourage him very strongly not to do the thing you want him to do.
2. If you don't want him to do something, try to get him to do the thing you don't want him to do (do this before he gets the idea that this is a fun thing to do on his own).
Add the following to clauses to these 2 simple rules and you have fully trained chow (translation - your chow does whatever the heck he pleases):
First clause - only use two simple rules in absolute emergency - a chow learns very quickly that this is reverse psychology hogwash and becomes extra defiant.
Second clause - Using two simple rules is very tempting, however if you refuse to abide by first clause, prepare for damage control.
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sit_by_the_beach
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LOL! Poor, Ski, trying seriously to ask how to get his Chowbaby to mind. And all y'all can do is tell him he's barking up the wrong tree!
Let me tell you the truth Ski. If your furkid thinks there's something in it for him, he will listen. Fun stuff = they learn well and forever. Jasmine learned 'gimme five' in a couple hours, now uses it to slap me whenever she wants a treat. She did 'stand pretty' the very first time at 12 weeks, and will even stand pretty now without being told if she thinks there might be a bite involved.
I've been training with hand signals as well as voice since I got her. If Jaz thinks there's a good bite, (cheese, steak, chicken) she will mind just the hand signals for sit, lay, stand, stay and come. Same with voice commands, first time said, BAM! she does it for something yummy. So I KNOW she understands the commands. Without treats, forget it. No sit, no stay, no nothing.
Now, take all this outside, and really forget it! Not gonna happen. WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF CHOW
Seriously, Melanie and Sherill have wonderful ways of training their Chows. Search for their posts.
Let me tell you the truth Ski. If your furkid thinks there's something in it for him, he will listen. Fun stuff = they learn well and forever. Jasmine learned 'gimme five' in a couple hours, now uses it to slap me whenever she wants a treat. She did 'stand pretty' the very first time at 12 weeks, and will even stand pretty now without being told if she thinks there might be a bite involved.
I've been training with hand signals as well as voice since I got her. If Jaz thinks there's a good bite, (cheese, steak, chicken) she will mind just the hand signals for sit, lay, stand, stay and come. Same with voice commands, first time said, BAM! she does it for something yummy. So I KNOW she understands the commands. Without treats, forget it. No sit, no stay, no nothing.
Now, take all this outside, and really forget it! Not gonna happen. WELCOME TO THE WORLD OF CHOW
Seriously, Melanie and Sherill have wonderful ways of training their Chows. Search for their posts.
~ Sally
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IliamnasQuest
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- Location: Alaska
Hi ski -
I'm glad to hear you're thinking of pursuing training with your chow! I think they're wonderfully intelligent dogs that can learn a huge number of behaviors on command.
Spitz breeds like the chow have such a high level of independence that it can make training difficult especially if you're not really experienced in training. You have to be more persistent than they are, be committed enough to never give in to their demands, and be fair and rewarding when they do what you want. I believe strongly in reward-based positive training but there's a balance of ..
(hold on .. Khana just came over and asked for some attention .. I had to stop and make sure she was petted enough)
.. okay, I was saying that there's a balance of positive training and properly used corrections. The positive training should be upwards of 90-95%, the corrections minimal and used only when the dog will understand what they're being corrected for.
SO .. when looking for a training class or a trainer, ask for their philosophy of training. Ask if you can observe them in a class or training situation (with other dogs, not just theirs). Ask what they recommend in training collars. And if their philosophy tends toward high corrections, they insist on using corrective collars before they even know your dog, then they're probably not going to be a good match for you and your chow.
I have no problem using corrections when they're warranted. But a training program based on corrections will probably result in your dog losing confidence in you. In the "old days" nearly everyone used choke chains or prong collars and if a dog didn't obey a command there was an instant correction. Dogs learned to obey because of a fear of consequences. It works. But it's overly harsh and if you want to maintain a good relationship with your dog you'll want to stay away from that type of training.
You may find a trainer who says they never use corrections but in all honesty I don't believe there's one out there. If you're teaching a dog to walk on a loose leash and you stop and let the dog hit the end of the leash it's a correction (even though you didn't actively yank on the leash). Even an "eht" is a correction. So if someone tells you they train with all positives, be sceptical but consider them as someone you may be able to work with.
If you use treats, toys and other rewards keep in mind that visual rewards can become a cue to a dog very quickly. The reason that some people think that food rewards don't really work is because they don't know how to train in a way that doesn't include the treat as a cue. You have to use visual rewards (lures) only for a very short time and then have treats out of sight so that the dog doesn't relate the sight of the treat with the command. Rewards are great, but if improperly used you may never get consistency from your dog.
Since your dog isn't a puppy, you may want to start the basics at home and then when he's got things down at home, try a training class for the distractions. Keep in mind that things they know at home won't necessarily transfer over because dogs tend to include their surroundings as part of the cue for behaviors. They may learn that "sit" in your kitchen means "put the butt to the kitchen floor" but once out of the kitchen they don't associate the word with the movement of sitting anymore. So you have to take a step back when you go somewhere new and start from the beginning again. After training multiple places, they will start to realize that "sit" means "sit" and not just "sit in the kitchen".
I'd love to travel around and give classes on "training the difficult breeds" .. *LOL* .. there's a certain challenge to getting an independent mind to do what you want without destroying their spirit. It can be done, but you have to be diligent and work WITH them and not against them.
Good luck!
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
http://www.kippsdogs.com/tips.html
I'm glad to hear you're thinking of pursuing training with your chow! I think they're wonderfully intelligent dogs that can learn a huge number of behaviors on command.
Spitz breeds like the chow have such a high level of independence that it can make training difficult especially if you're not really experienced in training. You have to be more persistent than they are, be committed enough to never give in to their demands, and be fair and rewarding when they do what you want. I believe strongly in reward-based positive training but there's a balance of ..
(hold on .. Khana just came over and asked for some attention .. I had to stop and make sure she was petted enough)
.. okay, I was saying that there's a balance of positive training and properly used corrections. The positive training should be upwards of 90-95%, the corrections minimal and used only when the dog will understand what they're being corrected for.
SO .. when looking for a training class or a trainer, ask for their philosophy of training. Ask if you can observe them in a class or training situation (with other dogs, not just theirs). Ask what they recommend in training collars. And if their philosophy tends toward high corrections, they insist on using corrective collars before they even know your dog, then they're probably not going to be a good match for you and your chow.
I have no problem using corrections when they're warranted. But a training program based on corrections will probably result in your dog losing confidence in you. In the "old days" nearly everyone used choke chains or prong collars and if a dog didn't obey a command there was an instant correction. Dogs learned to obey because of a fear of consequences. It works. But it's overly harsh and if you want to maintain a good relationship with your dog you'll want to stay away from that type of training.
You may find a trainer who says they never use corrections but in all honesty I don't believe there's one out there. If you're teaching a dog to walk on a loose leash and you stop and let the dog hit the end of the leash it's a correction (even though you didn't actively yank on the leash). Even an "eht" is a correction. So if someone tells you they train with all positives, be sceptical but consider them as someone you may be able to work with.
If you use treats, toys and other rewards keep in mind that visual rewards can become a cue to a dog very quickly. The reason that some people think that food rewards don't really work is because they don't know how to train in a way that doesn't include the treat as a cue. You have to use visual rewards (lures) only for a very short time and then have treats out of sight so that the dog doesn't relate the sight of the treat with the command. Rewards are great, but if improperly used you may never get consistency from your dog.
Since your dog isn't a puppy, you may want to start the basics at home and then when he's got things down at home, try a training class for the distractions. Keep in mind that things they know at home won't necessarily transfer over because dogs tend to include their surroundings as part of the cue for behaviors. They may learn that "sit" in your kitchen means "put the butt to the kitchen floor" but once out of the kitchen they don't associate the word with the movement of sitting anymore. So you have to take a step back when you go somewhere new and start from the beginning again. After training multiple places, they will start to realize that "sit" means "sit" and not just "sit in the kitchen".
I'd love to travel around and give classes on "training the difficult breeds" .. *LOL* .. there's a certain challenge to getting an independent mind to do what you want without destroying their spirit. It can be done, but you have to be diligent and work WITH them and not against them.
Good luck!
Melanie and the gang in Alaska
http://www.kippsdogs.com/tips.html
OH to add one more thing. Chows never forget. One lady handled my Butters and being the chow he is he wasn't going to stand for that kind of correction. It turned ugly quick, and to this day if he sees her, it is all teeth and growling.
The most important thing is remember if you are not comfortable doing it then don't. I was talked into to doing things I knew couldn't be good, but since I had never tried to train one before I thought these people must know. Just don't do anything you are uncomfortable with, Butters came out ok, but I think part of his not liking people is the bad experiences from training.
The most important thing is remember if you are not comfortable doing it then don't. I was talked into to doing things I knew couldn't be good, but since I had never tried to train one before I thought these people must know. Just don't do anything you are uncomfortable with, Butters came out ok, but I think part of his not liking people is the bad experiences from training.
SweetPea Rocks!!
The listening part - my Chows are like a co-worker of mine. He's hard of hearing. He explained that it's only certain tones he cannot hear. He said my tone is low and he can hear me. I said - So you CAN hear me when I ask you for something but you ignore me anyway? 
...he just smiled really big.
My two Chowdren won't listen to me unless the word "treat" is mixed in there somewhere...
Seriously, I don't doubt a Chow can be trained - you will just need to work harder at it. I only ask for them to do a few commands: Wait, Walk, This Way, and Quiet!
Good luck!
...he just smiled really big. My two Chowdren won't listen to me unless the word "treat" is mixed in there somewhere...
Seriously, I don't doubt a Chow can be trained - you will just need to work harder at it. I only ask for them to do a few commands: Wait, Walk, This Way, and Quiet!
Good luck!
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh
We had a trainer that liked to point out how mean chows are, and that they could turn on you with no warning, ya she only lasted two classes. we're going to train jack ourselves. Consistency is what you have to go for, you tell him to sit, if he doesnt do it the first time dont say it again, make him do it within 3 seconds. Only tell them once or they learn that they can do it when ever they want.. .oh chows how we love them
ps, jack here, chicken dogs are good incentive for those stupid human tricks...
ps, jack here, chicken dogs are good incentive for those stupid human tricks...
