Chow breader news story (not good)

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 9:25 am

Sure, it's not CONVENIENT when you and your family want a puppy and want it now, but researching, forming a relationship with a good breeder or rescue and waiting for the right dog is what we should all do if we want to see places like this drop in numbers. Don't kid yourself...the dog you have laying at your feet right now very well could have come from worse and the people responsible MADE MONEY.

[/quote]

I went to the local pet store to purchase some shampoo and a toy for my new chowfurgirl. The have one cream chow for sale, $2,000. I asked for the breeder's name, I asked who the chow parents are. I was told if I am interested to purchase the pup, they will give me the papers. Wonder what puppymill this chow pup came from. Why not tell me upfront or post the breeder's name on the for sale tag. They only give out date of birth and gender and deworming, vacc info.

WorknChowz · Post by **WorknChowz** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 10:02 am

Another thing we can all do is to refuse to shop at pet stores that support puppy millers. Send a message with your dollars!
I make it a habit to go to new pet supply stores. If I see they are selling puppies and/or kittens, (Making sure that they are not showcasing rescue animals) I select several expensive items, go to the counter for check out, and tell them why I won't be buying the items there and will inform all my friends to do the same.
Only buy from stores that don't support these greedy creeps! If the items you need aren't readily available in your area buy online from Pet Edge or other supply only stores.

Post by **jerryo** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 12:53 pm

$2000 for a cream chow puppy!
The $10 I spent to bail Benny out of the pound is looking pretty good at this point.

And he was already house and leash trained.

dchernandez · Post by **dchernandez** » Thu Nov 30, 2006 1:42 pm

jerryo wrote:$2000 for a cream chow puppy!
The $10 I spent to bail Benny out of the pound is looking pretty good at this point. And he was already house and leash trained.

I spent $37.00 on Riley plus $1.00 for a leash so I could take him home (I didn't think I was taking him home when I went to see him, so had to buy a leash there). Yup I shouldn't complain either

. Like jerryo said Riley was already house and leash trained, plus he was also neutered, microshipped and shots....For $2000 a chow, those puppies better be living in luxury.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 10:34 am

IliamnasQuest wrote:I'm glad this was posted - I came here to check and see if it had made it on the site yet.

Yes, that's the same place that WorknChowz visited. There have been numerous complaints made against the place over the past five years and yet the only one that has been willing to do ANYTHING is KATU TV.

The problem is that dirty conditions are not sufficient grounds for inspection and closure, unfortunately. But having 40 dogs on 1/8 of an acre in a residentially zoned area, and not having a business license even though she is obviously doing this to make money, WILL hopefully cause some problems for her.

Yes, if she's closed down she will probably have to get rid of some dogs. That's bad for rescue, but in the long run it's good if it stops her from breeding like she's been breeding. She's currently got three litters available, and last April (according to the report) she had three litters available - so she's breeding constantly.

The truly bad thing here is what was found in the attitude of the dogs. WorknChowz and I spoke on the phone and she described these puppies as being tremendously frightened. The breeder stacked up a puppy and it froze in place - even nose-to-nose with this puppy, she could not get it to interact with her in any way. It was as if the fear was so high that it petrified the pup and it couldn't move at all. What in the HELL does someone do to a 7-8 week old puppy to make them that way?? I can't - don't - even want to imagine.

The video doesn't show fearful dogs, but it doesn't show the breeder handling the dogs at all either. If the TV reporter had more dog know-how he might have recognized some of that and tried to get it on tape. Unfortunately, the only thing really seen was that the place was dirty. But the puppies were playing and none of the dogs looked in really bad condition.

I don't know what will happen, but at least people should know not to buy from a breeder like this. The puppies may be cute but they are not being handled properly and - as many of you know - a chow that has been handled badly has a lot of issues as it grows up. I can't understand why anyone would want to produce fearful puppies. There's NO excuse.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

What disgusts me is that there is another kennel in the Eastern US where the dogs are being neglected. It is known by many including a prominent rescue person who tried to get the person to release the dogs to her. The reason? This excuse for a breeder needed to keep her dogs so she could sell puppies to support herself. Why isn't anyone mentioning this and trying to do something about it?
Outraged Observer

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:22 am

[quote="Anonymous

What disgusts me is that there is another kennel in the Eastern US where the dogs are being neglected. It is known by many including a prominent rescue person who tried to get the person to release the dogs to her. The reason? This excuse for a breeder needed to keep her dogs so she could sell puppies to support herself. Why isn't anyone mentioning this and trying to do something about it?
Outraged Observer[/quote]

We had to get Worknzchow to post the name of the kennel, if people just keep saying things like, "another kennel in such and such a place" we have no where to start from. There are members on this forum all over the world, one may be near that kennel and be able to report it to a news service or the state or something, but without a name there isn't anywhere to start.

so if you know the name and think it needs to be looked into, post it.

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 11:33 am

Victory wrote:[quote="Anonymous

What disgusts me is that there is another kennel in the Eastern US where the dogs are being neglected. It is known by many including a prominent rescue person who tried to get the person to release the dogs to her. The reason? This excuse for a breeder needed to keep her dogs so she could sell puppies to support herself. Why isn't anyone mentioning this and trying to do something about it?
Outraged Observer

We had to get Worknzchow to post the name of the kennel, if people just keep saying things like, "another kennel in such and such a place" we have no where to start from. There are members on this forum all over the world, one may be near that kennel and be able to report it to a news service or the state or something, but without a name there isn't anywhere to start.

so if you know the name and think it needs to be looked into, post it.[/quote]

No problem. Bear Creek Chows Monteagle Tennessee

Post by **jerryo** » Sat Dec 02, 2006 1:51 pm

Bama!, Bubba! Sic 'em!

WorknChowz · Post by **WorknChowz** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 9:03 am

Back to "business as usual"! Canton website is up and running and....She's selling puppies again!

TWO more planned litters! Obviously she LIED when she told the news man she was "Overwhelmed"....Sheesh!

PLEASE, make sure you tell EVERYONE you know NOT to finance this cruelty!

She may have cleaned up her place to avoid further fines but I am sure she still treats her dogs the way she did when I was there. If she is going to THROW puppies accross the room with a prospective buyer there, I cannot imagine what happens when no one is there to witness!

This whole thing continues to make me sick to my stomach.

IliamnasQuest · Post by **IliamnasQuest** » Wed Dec 27, 2006 6:10 pm

Anonymous wrote: Bear Creek Chows Monteagle Tennessee

Well, I guess I'm a bit sceptic about someone coming on anonymously and saying this sort of thing. Anyone who has a beef against anyone else can say this sort of thing, especially anonymously. Give us details of your visit to the facility and exactly what you saw that makes your allegations of neglect true.

I don't know Carrie Voorhees, but she's very active in the show world and is well known. There was some proof against Canton Chows (and I'm VERY sorry to see Lolly is planning more breedings). Let's see what you have to say that holds truth about Bear Creek Chows.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Post by **jerryo** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 7:03 am

Excellent point, Melanie! Anyone can say anything on the internet.
That's why I was hoping Bubba or Bama could check it out, since they seem to be the closest board regulars to the place.

WorknChowz · Post by **WorknChowz** » Thu Dec 28, 2006 8:22 am

As someone said earlier in the discussion about bad breeders, I think we should compile a list from FIRST HAND witnesses.
As a community of people who truly love the Chow Chow, we could have alot of power to help promote the good and put the bad out of business!

Let's make it a point to visit Chow breeders in our states! Going on a road trip? VISIT out of your state.

BTW, when I visited Canton, if the conditions were as bad as they were BUT the dogs were being handled kindly, and not so completely terrorized, I might not have even tried to report it beyond calling AC and OHS. Hell, I'd have offered to HELP her!

There are alot of people who actually feel sorry for Lolly Harris. They want to believe that she just let things get out of control and ended up with more dogs and filth than she could handle... Sadly, NOT SO.
Even IF the conditions had been SPOTLESSLY clean, the cruelty that my friends and I witnessed was completely unacceptable and I would have persued help for the dogs with just as much conviction. The fact that she neglected her dogs AND abused them, made it easier for people to see there was something VERY wrong at Canton.

Out of control filth CAN be excused in certain circumstances.... THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR CRUELTY!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:07 pm

WorknChowz, I hope you are at least a little bit happy with all of this, there were several Chows put down at Canton as a result of what you did, they could have lived out the rest of their lives there, but no, you had to go in and bring the news media instead of some other alternative. Carrie is sick too and has been for a while, why don't all of you *censored word* go jump on her and cause her to have to put down what she has at her place instead of letting them live their lives out. You people make me as sick as any bad conditions that the dogs are in, try and think about the results before you jump on these people. I think I am done with this site, just like I have been done with the breeders sites, you are all the same, you won't work to a solution of the problems and you have no clue what you are doing!

redangie24 · Post by **redangie24** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:33 pm

means allot coming from "guest"
Also, she caused them to get put down because she was irresponisble and did not stop when she got sick. Had she asked for help and stopped when she knew she could not take care of them things could have been different.
Wait why am I explaining things to "guest"

Red Dragon · Post by **Red Dragon** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:53 pm

Whoops, I'm sorry, I was the guest in the previous post, I am certainly not afraid for anyone to know who I am, and not afraid to speak my mind. Clueless, the whole lot of you that do stuff like this is CLUELESS.

Imagine this, Lolly bred all of those puppies you are so upset about, but most of them had people waiting for them before they were even born. Lolly does health checks, it may not be enough to satisfy my tastes, but she does health checks, and a lot more than most. Now you have cut her back, she cannot possibly meet the demand that she use to fill, so those people will go elsewhere to buy puppies that the parents have had no health checks done on, OH BOY, more screwed up dogs.

Go ahead, shut her down if that is your goal, then there will be three or four that come right behind her to fill the demand, and guess what, NO HEALTH CHECKS, do you get it??? Can you people get that through your fat, thick, stupid heads????

IliamnasQuest · Post by **IliamnasQuest** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 6:54 pm

Anonymous wrote:WorknChowz, I hope you are at least a little bit happy with all of this, there were several Chows put down at Canton as a result of what you did, they could have lived out the rest of their lives there, but no, you had to go in and bring the news media instead of some other alternative. Carrie is sick too and has been for a while, why don't all of you jackasses go jump on her and cause her to have to put down what she has at her place instead of letting them live their lives out. You people make me as sick as any bad conditions that the dogs are in, try and think about the results before you jump on these people. I think I am done with this site, just like I have been done with the breeders sites, you are all the same, you won't work to a solution of the problems and you have no clue what you are doing!

There were options other than destroying the dogs .. if that's what she did, then she chose the easy way out.

If the dogs were healthy and sound of temperament, they could have been placed elsewhere. If they weren't healthy and temperamentally sound, then that's probably Lolly's fault.

I can't understand people who fail to see that the dogs SHOULD BE TAKEN CARE OF PROPERLY and if you can't do that, then you don't have dogs and you surely don't breed them!! She has two more litters on the ground, making this EIGHT litters for the year. If you're sick and can't deal with it, then stop breeding!!

We CHOOSE our paths, and any dogs put to sleep at Canton chows is 100% the fault of LOLLY HARRIS. No one else needs feel any guilt over this. She set up this situation and unfortunately the dogs are paying for it.

I am so sick of people not taking responsibility for their own actions. As far as I'm concerned, anyone who condones the breeding and handling practices of people like Lolly should not be allowed to have dogs.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

Red Dragon · Post by **Red Dragon** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:10 pm

You people gave her no choice, the dogs had to go somewhere imediately because of city ordinances. Then you want to jump on Cherub Chows because she housed as many as she could so they wouldn't have to be put down. Think about your actions before you do something like this! If you want somebody shut down because of conditions you should have a place lined up for all the dogs to go in advance, don't go barnstorming breeders and give them no good options and a reasonable time to deal with the situation.

You are barking up the wrong tree anyway, there is a demand for these Chow puppies, most people do not want a rescue, face the facts, they want a fresh little furball they can call their own. There is really only one solution to the problem, mandatory health checks, only then will you see the puppy mills and the show breeders that are breeding for profit give it up, it will cut deep into their pockets, and you are doing good for the dogs at the same time, that is the only solution!

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 7:59 pm

Which dogs got put down and for what reason? Where are you getting your information?

Canton Chows has 1/8 (.125) of an acre and an 800 square foot home housing 40 dogs.

Cherub has 5 acres (that is 40 times as much land) and MAY be better equiped to handle many more dogs.

However, if Linda at Cherub treats the dogs as badly as Lolly then she should be next.

I don't care what the demand is for the breed, there is no excuse for treating any animal as badly as Lolly does. They are better off put to rest then living with her anyway.

ChowMania · Post by **ChowMania** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:00 pm

Sorry, last post was me.

IliamnasQuest · Post by **IliamnasQuest** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:08 pm

Can you people get that through your fat, thick, stupid heads????

Oh yes, I can see perfectly well why you are not taken seriously in the chow world. I can guarantee that the one looking stupid here is YOU.

Sam, if you truly followed her website you'll know that she has always had puppies looking for homes (usually multiple puppies from a litter). She didn't have people lined up for those puppies. She depends on people from far away states to buy her pups based on her website (because I'd be willing to bet people in her area wouldn't pay her prices if they saw her set-up). You've never even been there, and yet you defend her so adamantly. That's just sad.

As I've already shown in the post in the other thread, she did minimal health checks. She's currently breeding dogs that are not even OFA'd on hips. There were only a few on her website with elbow certifications and there was NO MENTION OF THYROID, CARDIAC, EYE CERF's or other health tests! At the bare minimum, ALL breeding chows should be cleared for hips, elbows, eyes and thyroid. She bred young bitches, one before it was even a YEAR OLD. I truly believe that's abuse.

It really amazes me that you continue to defend her when the FACTS shout out so clearly that she was not doing the right thing! To me, you are no better than all of those you are screaming about.

What health testing have you done on your breeding dogs? I know you've produced at least one litter (I have a picture of one of your puppies from 2005). You keep talking about health testing but you haven't told us what YOU have done to improve the breed. And now you want to blame other people for the screw-ups that Lolly did. Are you going to blame others when you screw up, too?

Sorry, Sam, you can't get past the facts. And one of the facts is that Lolly CHOSE to keep all those dogs in an area not zoned for a kennel. She chose to breed excessively. She chose to try to hide what she was doing from the city, the state and the federal government (my understanding is that she's down as "non-commercial" and doesn't even have a business license, and is likely not declaring all that money she brings in - which, at $1200 or more for a puppy will certainly add up .. she quoted me $1500 for a puppy a couple of years ago so I know she sells some for more). She chose not to do any more than minimal health testing.

And now you want to blame everyone else for her choices. Whew, Sam, come back to the real world where people have to face their own mistakes! Her choice to kill her dogs is HER CHOICE. Seems kind of odd that someone who "Loooooovves her dogs" and considers them her "babies" would do that.

Just another mark against her. And anyone who defends her for her practices and choices has a mark against them too, in my opinion.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

WorknChowz · Post by **WorknChowz** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:10 pm

Anonymous wrote:WorknChowz, I hope you are at least a little bit happy with all of this, there were several Chows put down at Canton as a result of what you did, they could have lived out the rest of their lives there, but no, you had to go in and bring the news media instead of some other alternative. Carrie is sick too and has been for a while, why don't all of you *censored word* go jump on her and cause her to have to put down what she has at her place instead of letting them live their lives out. You people make me as sick as any bad conditions that the dogs are in, try and think about the results before you jump on these people. I think I am done with this site, just like I have been done with the breeders sites, you are all the same, you won't work to a solution of the problems and you have no clue what you are doing!

Oh please...enlighten us with your magic solution for a woman who throws screaming puppies accross the room and doesn't see anything wrong with that or the sickening stench of filth surrounding her!
What would YOU have done? Just walk away?
I am very sorry to hear that some of the dogs had to be put down. (If they really were) I'm sure it was because they were no longer making money.
"Live out their lives"????? That is NOT a "life"!
Having done MANY years of rescue, I feel strongly that there are worse things than being dead and I would put my own beloved dogs down before I'd see them being treated like that!

Red Dragon · Post by **Red Dragon** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:14 pm

Where do you get your information, who said the dogs at Cherub were treated badly, have you been there, have you seen the dogs, where is your information coming from and just who are you?

You still don't get it, you can try and shut down Cherub too, all it will get you is three in her place that don't do health checks, Cherub has plenty of health checks, go look!

You people are just like the idiots around here, a Chow puppy mill got shut down several years ago because a member of the Chow Club didn't like the conditions, well guess what, another Chow breeder down the road bought several of her dogs and is now an even bigger puppy mill than she was, over twice as big, guess what, NO HEALTH CHECKS!! Guess what, the AKC and the State don't care, they meet the minimum requirements.

Give me your address so I can send you a free hammer so you can drive this through your fat heads!!! "HEALTH CHECKS"!!!!

sit_by_the_beach · Post by **sit_by_the_beach** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:22 pm

I live in eastern Canada. The news about Canton chows travelled all the way to Ontario and europe. Long before the situation was discussed in the group. "guest""Red Dragon" please stop blaming anyone in this group. The news was out long before that. I received an email from Poland inquiring about the breeder.

Karin

Red Dragon wrote:You people gave her no choice, the dogs had to go somewhere imediately because of city ordinances. Then you want to jump on Cherub Chows because she housed as many as she could so they wouldn't have to be put down. Think about your actions before you do something like this! If you want somebody shut down because of conditions you should have a place lined up for all the dogs to go in advance, don't go barnstorming breeders and give them no good options and a reasonable time to deal with the situation.

You are barking up the wrong tree anyway, there is a demand for these Chow puppies, most people do not want a rescue, face the facts, they want a fresh little furball they can call their own. There is really only one solution to the problem, mandatory health checks, only then will you see the puppy mills and the show breeders that are breeding for profit give it up, it will cut deep into their pockets, and you are doing good for the dogs at the same time, that is the only solution!

WorknChowz · Post by **WorknChowz** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:25 pm

Red Dragon wrote: who said the dogs at Cherub were treated badly, have you been there, have you seen the dogs, where is your information coming from and just who are you?

Chowmania said "IF". Perhaps you better save a hammer for yourself.

Are you going to answer the questions? I am waiting to see what you have to offer...

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Tue Jan 02, 2007 8:28 pm

Not that I’m defending Animal shelters but as far as I know Animal Control just doesn’t come out to your house and select a few dogs to put down (Unless you live in Denver or China) If they had to put some of the Chows down then they were probably to sick or injured to be saved.

Red dragon, Are you dating that woman at Canton or just brain dead and senile? Possibly hitting the bottle a little to much?

If you were in your right mind how could you blame WorknChows for what went on at Canton but then again love does do strange things to a guy, you must be dating the Canton woman or have a financial interest.

ChowChow.org

Chow breader news story (not good)

IMPORTANT UPDATE!