WHAT A SCARE!

[crickle_22]

I was wondering if anyone could offer any advice when it comes to teaching your dog to come on command when they are outside. I've always heard and saw dogs that are great outside, they can go off leash and listen SOOO well. I don't know how to train my dog for that but I want to learn.
AND... This is why...

We were packing the car up for our trip home for the easter weekend and once everything was in we brought Koda (those of you might already know of him) out and he pulled hard and my husband lost grip and he got loose... we called him and he just took off like a bat out of hell... he wouldn't listen and ran for 4 blocks on to a busy street where a car stoped for him... good thing. I was in TEARS and he ended up stopping to smell a hydrant and my husband was able to grab the leash and bring him home.. but we were lucky.. lucky he didn't get hit by a car, lucky he didn't get hurt, lucky that we got him back.... just all around lucky. I don't want something like this to happen again.. he could have ran up to a mean dog.. things could have been really bad... I want to fix this.. and when it comes to commands in the home he is awesome.. but outside it's like crack for him.. he goes nuts. Please help!

[CoraP.]

I don't know what to tell you. Chows have a very stubborn streak when they are outside. I never trust Molly to be off-leash because of Bear (our first chowmix). He never listened when there was something he wanted to do. Very stubborn are chows! I'm glad everything turned out alright though!

[Tippsy'smom]

That is scary! And I've had that happen with my purebred girl! When she's loose and she knows it, she's GONE! Nothing can get her back except following her and grabbing her when she makes a stop. I'm glad you got him back unscathed. I wish I could tell you how to "fix" this, but from what I've read, it's a normal chow thing and there's nothing to fix it.

[J & C]

I am so sorry that happen, but CoraP. is so right. If they have their minds made up they're going to go! Mine do wonderful in the training arena, but here at home, outside, they are off to see the Wizard. "Thanks for all your love Mom; but there are places to go and things to see and smell and well...see ya'!!" You are so right about the dangers but I can't get either of my Chows to listen when they don't want to. Once I remember being right at the door and I knocked on the door really hard and Java ran back to see who was there: but the situation was just right for that, you know. So glad Koda is ok. Such a cool dog! Well, usually, right?!

[Piff Poff]

Henry knows 'come'. He doesn't always follow through though.

[Michael's Maggie May]

When you find an answer please let us all know. I have a large fenced in area that she spends half the day in and when I want her to come in I must loop a rope around her neck. She jerked so hard that I was left holding the rope while she ran through the woods with me on her heels. I'm just thankful she doesn't head for the road.

[Katjusa]

It's sooo strange! I let Shosha off leash a few times now (and I probably won't be doing it again) and most times she came when I called her. But sometimes she just ignored me. She heard me calling, looked at me and went off.
Well, it's a part of the chow chow charm I believe

[Piff Poff]

If I go to the off leash park with Henry I use a crappy old leash (15-20ft long) and I just drop it. Henry is really very good, he keeps me in sight to make sure I don't escape all the time and he is usually worn out enough to just head for the car at the end of the loop, not like many of the other dogs where the owners are getting really fed up lol.

When Henry has escaped his collar (it's why I now use a harness), he runs off, but stays close enough not to lose me, and you can see him laughing.

Henrys most favourite place to be, is sitting out front so he can see the neighbourhood's goings on. So he quite often sts down and gets tied up. Sat night DD was so tired from having sleepovers that she neglected to tie him up (I think she went through the motions but the clip didn't make the loop) . It was getting late and Henry had been out for a couple of hours, so we called him in (he went straight out the back), He wasn't connected to anything AT ALL, he had just been laying out there FREE OMG! What a good boy he didn't run off OMG! I still can't really beleive it.

[Victory]

As you have probably seen by now, Recall, coming when called while outside. Is NOT a chows greatest thing. (Many of their related breeds are just as bad, owners of Huskies, Malamutes and Keeshonds have told me they don't trust theirs off leash either) One thing is that Koda has to be tired out, a tired chow is much more willing to listen, second coming to you has to be fun, you have to make it good for him to come to you. Practice in the house first, make him sit stay, and move away from him, keeping him in the stay. Then call him to you, when he comes give him a treat, make a big deal out of it. When he does this consitently, move to a long lead or an enclosed area outside, do the same thing. When you call him, don't just say, come Koda. Get excited, say, Come Koda, come on, see what I have." When he starts toward you, begin to praise him, "come Koda, oh Koda is such a good boy to Come." emphasize the word "come" and when he reaches you, praise, praise, praise and treat. Repeat, over and over and over again. But while he is young, don't fully trust him even if he consistently does it for you. Especially if he is somewhere new that needs to be explored, or he sees any critters to chase.

The other thing is the type of lease you are using. If you have one of the retractable ones, get rid of it, unless you can fit your hand through the handle. A regular leash with the loop at the your end is best, you put your hand through it so it is on your wrist, that way he can't pull it out of your hand. There is a draw back to this, if he jerks and you're unaware, he can pull you down. So pay attention when you're out with him, like this. I see so many people talking on their cell phones or otherwise not paying attention and their normally opeident dog spots a squirrel or another dog and in a blink of an eye the dog is gone and the owner is sitting on the ground, scrambling to their feet.

I hope the above helps, it helped me last year when my Firesong's leash detached from her harness, (check leashes frequently for abrasion that will cause the hook not to close properly and for fraying which could cause the leash to snap, although with the new materials this one is rare now) For about 30 seconds she was free and there were squirrels everywhere, but I called her calmly like I do when she's inside and she came right to me. I was so relieved, because even at 9.5 years old, if she'd taken off I never would have caught her. Practice, practice and more practice,is the key.

[chowpups]

After 4 trainers and home training Nikki was doing good until she hit about 1yr old. Then she noticed rabbits, chipmunks, squirrels, deer and the end of Moms voice trailing in the wind. Nikki COME. Sorry to say all training went out the window and she is not trusted off leash. To get her in the house from the back yard we sometimes have to ring the door bell cause she thinks she's going to miss greeting someone if she doesn't come.. Love her to death but can't take the chance of her getting lost or hit by a car. In the house she has total recall.. Will come when ever called .. Outside not so good.. not even in her back yard.. But its always worth trying to train them you might have the one that is different and listens. There are a few on here. Just don't get too frustrated if he doesn't listen..

[Boogie and Linda]

One of the characteristics of chows is that they are willfull. When something is in their mind it is hard to get them to listen. My Boogie has taken off like that and it scares the heck out of you. And the more you chase them, usually the more they will run. He would let us catch up to him and as soon as we bent down to grab his collar he would run again. He has kind of outgrown that now. He used to bolt through the door when we were coming in or out. Now he sits at the door and doesn't go out. Even my senior who could barely walk, couldn't hear, and could barely see would do that. My husband would let go of his leash in the park when he was laying down and as soon as he realized he was free he would get up and start hobbling away. I think they like to explore so be extra vigilant with making sure you have a hold of the leash. And I double leash Boogie when we walk still because he can be a puller. He gets one leash on his collar for control and a back up leash on a harness to help me balance should he pull hard. It makes him much easier to control him.

[Piff Poff]

Once when Henry ran off (bolted through the unlatched screen door - thanks DH) a guy fixing a roof shouted down, LAY ON THE FLOOR to me, so I did! Henry cam e straight over as if to say, HEY Mum, that's no fun GET UP. Of course he got marched straight back home lol.

[Sarahloo]

Once when Henry ran off (bolted through the unlatched screen door - thanks DH) a guy fixing a roof shouted down, LAY ON THE FLOOR to me, so I did! Henry cam e straight over as if to say, HEY Mum, that's no fun GET UP. Of course he got marched straight back home lol.

I'm gonna try that!

If you can (if the situation allows it), don't give chase. That will just make the Chow run faster, and you can't outrun a Chow. Stay where you are, or walk away in the other direction. Then they'll come to check where you are and why on earth you're not giving chase. Obviously that wasn't sth. you could have done, since Koda was posing a threat for the traffic and himself, but if they get away during a walk in the woods, it's easier to get them back this way.
They're so hard to catch, these little buggers. They're devilishly fast AND smart. Best thing is just to be x-tra careful so that they don't get away in the 1st place.

[crickle_22]

Once when Henry ran off (bolted through the unlatched screen door - thanks DH) a guy fixing a roof shouted down, LAY ON THE FLOOR to me, so I did! Henry cam e straight over as if to say, HEY Mum, that's no fun GET UP. Of course he got marched straight back home lol.

I AM going to give that a try if it happends again!! Thanks!

Thanks for all the insite everyone... I was hoping to hear that it was just me so the problem can be fixed but I think the problem is just Koda... or Chows in general. They are a stubburn bunch aren't they! I'm going to work really hard with him on this so that my chances of are greater... the thing is Koda has "buddies" that live down the street just before the busy road. We usually see them on our walks... and he now runs to their houses. He got away 2 times before this (my kids opened the door and he charged out) but he only made it 2 houses before listening to my call for him to come home.... of course this was when he was still under a year old.
He is quite the handful!

It's a scary thing when they get out... I felt like I couldn't breathe and my reaction was just to run to chace him (which is something I really can't do with my hip issue)... next time I am going to try the tricks that you all have suggested and keep my fingers crossed. Thank you again for all the help... Koda is one TOUGH stubburn dog.... I'm sure I'll have plenty stories to tell... lol

[Sarahloo]

That's a good thing, that Koda has a good reason to stop before crossing the busy road. I would linger there with him on your walkies, and encourage him to always try to catch a glimpse of his friends before you move on. It might save his life one day.
But do try to be careful!!! What if he runs in front of a family car and causes the death of a mother and her children? You could never live with yourself if that happened. That is actually my own worst fear with Loo. I always grip his leash so tight my bones are showing (slight exageration! )!

[crickle_22]

That's a good thing, that Koda has a good reason to stop before crossing the busy road. I would linger there with him on your walkies, and encourage him to always try to catch a glimpse of his friends before you move on. It might save his life one day.
But do try to be careful!!! What if he runs in front of a family car and causes the death of a mother and her children? You could never live with yourself if that happened. That is actually my own worst fear with Loo. I always grip his leash so tight my bones are showing (slight exageration! )!

OMGOSH! No! I couldn't live with myself if something like that were to happen.. it would just kill me. We are really careful when we have him out... hopefully we can get him to respond better to us outside... I pray that we do.

[Judy Fox]

When we had Milly and Mabel young Fred and I read and heard that chow chows are very bad at not coming when off the leash. When they were pups they were reasonably good but all of a sudden one day, off they went. Fred and I were somewhat bemused and we thought that we would take them to nearby forest. We took the line that we had lived with dogs all our lives and had never experienced this problem before so we would train them.
We went in the middle of the week when we knew hardly any other people would be there. We walked into the forest and set off down one of the trails then we unclipped their leads. They were fine and we called them and they came to us - then - off they went one in one direction and one in the other! We eventually caught them and that was the last time they ever were let off their leads.
With Matilda and Maisie we have never let them off their leads but they have escaped out of the garden and they were off - no backwards glance and when we went after them, they just stood and laughed at us. We tried walking in the opposite direction - that just suited them fine.
So - no off lead time - and a padlock on the front gate when they are in the front. That Matilda, naughty little baggage that she is, learnt that if she jumps up at the catch on the gate with an upward movement, the catch opens so we just put a padlock on.

[Victory]

Thanks for all the insite everyone... I was hoping to hear that it was just me so the problem can be fixed but I think the problem is just Koda... or Chows in general. They are a stubburn bunch aren't they! ... Koda is one TOUGH stubburn dog.... I'm sure I'll have plenty stories to tell... lol

The term is independent, that's what a lot of the descriptions of chows say about them. It comes to the same thing, yep stubburn is their middle name! They think they know better than you do. I always think of it like this, most dogs are like 2 year old childern, they only get into trouble because of ignorance, they aren't trying to be defiant, just don't know any better. Chows are like very smart 3 year old children, that is the age when a child will stand up glare at you straight in the eye and say "NO!" Then give you a devilish smile and run off to do what they want to do. Remember that smile, it is the attitude that is always in your chow's mind, you can see it in their eyes.

And I think Koda is shaping up to be a HRH, His/Her Royal Highness, these are the chows who get up to all kinds of things, running off is primary among it. Other behaviors are, pouting, scaring away strangers, hiding things, doing just the opposite of what you ask, and training you to their needs. Yep, HRH Koda..

[itismysong]

My advice is keep a leash on the dog even in a fenced yard. If the dog does'nt come ,go get it. MAYBE just maybe eventually it will come when called?( I know that's a nice theory)I have a 15yr old black female chow who is now deaf. I never put her on a leash, I couldn't get her to "run" anywhere I wasn't. Now I just have to wave her in.She is the great lizard hunter. Ok I'm not saying out in public I don't put a leash on her, but I can go out the front door with it open and all my girls just stand there and watch me.(I have 2 german shepards also) I know there are dogs that just don't listen, you just have to be extremely consistent. I would keep a small leash on them at all times in the house even, if you plan on opening the front door. Maybe they will learn that there is no getting away? ok I am done with my theories...good luck!

[crickle_22]

SOOO as I write this I am a bit pee'd off! Now I know mistakes happen and I understand that chows are known for being stubburn... BUT humans are suppose to be a bit smarter then them most of the time. I write this because I am extremely careful with letting Koda out, and making sure that all percautions are taken when it's time to let him out or take him for walks.. I have written in another post how Koda got away on our trip home for easter weekend... accidents happen and my husband (whom I love dearly) accidently triped on the stairs to my porch. Hense, why Koda got lose. Then.. just the other day Koda had to go out and my husband went to put him on the leash line outside... he accidently droped the line and Koda charged down the stairs before getting it clipped... and round two takes place. Only this time.. my husband is in only his socks... I tell him to drop down to the ground-- he does and Koda takes that as a great time to charge off. It didn't work! LOL He could careless when it comes to his freedom. I feel like he looks at us like we're "oppressors". I couldn't leave the house to chase him with my husband because I was with my two kiddies.. but it took 10 blocks and a tired Koda before he was able to grab him. (in his socks)... We even went to buy a clicker for dogs that doesn't seem to work.. only makes Koda crazy! I know accidnets happen and my husband felt so bad.. but I kind of reamed him out when he got back because I am afraid of the worst things that can happen... I'm a glass half empty when these things happen and he has a calm, things are okay type attitude and it drives me NUTS! I love him... he is a good man, but I get so upset when he doesn't pay attention. I let the dog out EVERYDAY, all the time.. and I know his personality so I am EXTRA careful... leaving less chance for mistake. I wish my husband would pick up this trait.. we can only get lucky so many times.. I really don't want to push my luck. So peoples.. I figure I can't fix my dog LOL.. but any idea's on how to fix my husband?? LOL jk

I think you're right Victory... HRH Koda is now trying to rein. I have high energy kids and a high energy chow... I live in crazy town! LOL

[itismysong]

" I figure I can't fix my dog LOL.. but any idea's on how to fix my husband?? LOL jk"

Lol! women have been trying to fix husbands for years. Good Luck with Koda though!

[Thomas]

I'm brand new here but I'd like to share our experience with training.

We have a female two year old smooth coat cinnamon chow named Teddie. When she was three months old I began putting her on a twenty foot lead and then letting her wander around the yard. I would call "Here" and pull her in on the leash. The first five or six times I dragged her to me. Then she figured out it was easier to come when I put tension on the line. Then she figured out it was even easier to just come to me when I called. Of course she got praise and pets when she got to me so it was a pretty good deal for her. When we're in the yard now I will call her to come to me at random moments to reinforce that she must come. If she does not come immediately she knows the next thing is going back on the leash.

Out in public she is a willful as any other Chow but we have some modicum of control. She pushed her way out the front gate while I was working in the yard one day and was very pleased with herself. I called to her and she started off down the street. I called her name very sharply and she turned. "Inside!" I barked, and, head down, she slinked back inside the yard.

When we're out in public if she gets nervous I give her the command, "Down." and she lays down at my feet. I run my hand down her back and it calms her. She has gotten off of the leash one time outside and I told her to "Sit", then went over and took her collar. We have to work at this regularly to reinforce who's in control and she still rebels but we have to have some say as to what she does for her own safety and well being. She also knows she has to sit at every street corner before we can cross. Last thing . . .

Training started with doorways. Teddie does not get to go through a closed door unless she sits and waits for permission. Sometimes I go through first and sometimes I let her go first, but it's always at my direction, not her's. When she starts to go first (because she's excited) I make her sit and she knows she has to wait longer if she doesn't obey. The same with treats. I hold the treat in my hand in front of her but she can't have it until I say "Eat."

Teddie is very smart and happy and likes to play jokes on me, as well as play tag in the back yard and she seems to really enjoy the training because it lets her show how really smart she is. We're working on doing heel without a leash right now. My objective is to get her to do a slack leash heel in public and I believe we'll get there.

We also have a shepherd retriever mix who's something of a goofball (Arleigh). The two of them are great friends and both get the same level of training. Teddie picks it up faster but Arleigh's getting there as well.

Anyway, this is what we did.

[crickle_22]

Thomas,

Thanks for the input! I will try a lot of the suggestions. We've been teaching Koda the doorway respect and he is doing better as we are steadily consistant with it. We make him sit and wait at our back door before putting on his lead and even after make him sit in front of the door sitting until we say goodboy! He doesn't do SO well with this.. he'll wait 3 seconds before darting out of the doorway like a bat out of hell. I bring him in when he does this.. but he has the attention span of a goldfish. Seriously. lol
Bringing him out on a long lead might help with his training.. we are saving up right now to bring him to a trainer because I think I am in over my head when it comes to learning what works best.. lol each day is different.. some days he will sit and wait soo good, and others... he just can't contain himself.

What do you think about Bark collars? Koda barks at the birds, the bees, the squirrels, the kids next door, the mail man and just about anything that comes in his sight through the window or back yard... I bought one of those sound clicker things and at first he hated it and would freak out when I would click it.. and well, now he ignores it.

Would training him with a shock collar work? I hate the idea of them.. I have never used them before and find them to be soo cruel... but I have an uncle that trains champion breed black labs and he trains them as hunting dogs and he uses the collar... for the harder dogs.. but I am so unsure about them... is it as bad as I think it is or am I just being to sensitive about it??

[Ursa's daddy]

Before I got my chows, we had a husky. She would not come when called and was smart enough to slip through an electric fence (cattle type three wire fence, all wires hot) We were never able to train her to come, and it wasn't until she was too old to run that she would stay near by. Ursa will stay around the house if she gets out the fence, and Malachi has shown limited interest in leaving the garage should he get out. Once, when I lived in Savannah, I dropped Ursa's lead when leaving the vet's and she ran out into the street. Thank God she stopped in the turning lane. It gave me a big scare. I agree that harnesses are the way to go. I think they are more secure, and don't bother the dogs like a collar. My chows will come to me in the yard, and I haven't had any problem when I go to the dog parks. I have not tried, but it should be possible to train them to come to me in the yard and sit down for a treat. Using treats is my wife's favorite thing in dog training. I am not that big a fan of it, but it has its uses. No matter how mad they make you when they run off, praise them if they do come to you. I get down to their level and let them kiss my face, which is a canine respect thing that I believe helps with bonding. The idea is to make them want to please you, since you are the alpha dog. My wife and I watch the animal planet channel, and there is a show "It's me or the dog" with a trainer named Victoria. She has a lot of tips on dog training. You might get some ideas from her.

[Merlin]

3 seconds before darting out of the doorway like a bat out of hell.

Rule #1 of training any animal ( and please always remember this), is ALWAYS set yourself up to win. NEVER , not ever give ANY command to a dog, unless you are in a position to correct it, or reinforce it.

Koda runs out of the door, simply because he can. Don't let him. You have to stop that. Put a lead on him, make him sit, and wait, and if he goes, you step on the lead .If the lead isn`t long enough, use a long line, rope, clothesline, it doesn`t matter. All you`re teaching him at this point, is to `sit`, then after a few seconds, to run. You are literally teaching him that.

but he has the attention span of a goldfish

it`s very , very possible. Training incorporates a fair amount of mental work. It`requires concentration and a disciplined thought process from the dog, so if he`s never been conditioned to work along those lines, then, yes, sure! - has has no concentration span. This is something that has to be developed and usually is over time during the obedience training process.<

Koda barks at the birds, the bees, the squirrels, the kids next door,

Koda is mostly likely a very insecure dog, who thinks he`s your leader, ( because someone in your household has to be, right?), and he really doesn`t want to be. ( like people, not all dogs make good leaders).

Please don`t use a barking collar. Yes, it will stop him from barking, but it won't change who he is mentally, and the barking is a result of who he is mentally. He will just manifest his angst some other way.

You need to get this dog well "in hand", so that he clearly understands his place in your home.
For now, if he's barking, find a key word; such as " enough". For the next couple of days, t here is nothing stopping you from keeping a drag line on him in your home.
Especially if he doesn't respond to the word "Come".

When he barks, get him to you, tell him the key word, t hen immediately with one hand grab his muzzle and put pressure on his muzzle ( like his mother would), and the moment, the very moment he stops, you let go the pressure. - but don't move your hand. If he r e-barks, you clamp that pressure right back on,. ( he can't get away from you because in your other hand you have his drag line right?). When you are convinced that he's stopped barking, then let him go. Do not praise him. The rewards is simply letting him go. He learns that if he stops, he gains freedom. This is a typical example of compulsion training and if you are ALWAYS consistent, it will work.

But realistically, if he doesn't do the 4 basics flawlessly: come - sit - down and stay, you really need to start there to develop his mindset and this is your starting point. These 4 cues solve many problems, and by the time they reach all four they are generally well trained enough to not run through doors , or blow you off. Your dog should walk at "heel". and achieve a downstay of at least 4 minutes. If you have reached this point, then I seriously doubt you'll be having the problems you're describing, because by then, he will be well in hand. He needs basic obedience.

You always have to start with the basics.

There are many professional trainers who have students working under them doing their stagieres.
You may want to contact the CDN Training Association and ask them who in your area might be mentoring one at this time.
There is often no cost to the participant, ( or very low cost), and like I mentioned to someone else in the forum, hiring a trainer doesn't mean you need to take reams and reams of courses, sometimes only one or two visits suffice.

It is helpful if you have a local school you can go to, but try to see if you can find a student who is being mentored.