The 'P' Family

[schnauziechow]

Posh. A Cinnamon Chow. We were debating on her true color. From these pics, can see clearly her shade of color. Tongue and nose is pink though...





Phantom, Chubby boy







Pepper, darling MS



Phoebe,

[Mally]

hmmm...she is cute! Is she a cross though? It's as if she looks like a Chow but not really...and she has a pink mouth and she looks very small - how old is she? None the less she is cute and has a very nice colouring -and I think it's the very extreme of cinnamon. Lychee is also a cinnamon but on the other side of the scale - she is Fawn

[chris]

WOW.... I have never seen a chow with that deep of a coloring. She is darling. I wonder why her tounge and nose are pink too... hmmmm.

[vicster605]

WOW!!! Now shes different!!! I LOVE her color!!! And of course my first thought was what my 4 yr old grandchild said at the Vet when she saw a black Lab.puppy "Grammy whats wrong with that dogs tongue??"
Shes just BEAUTIFUL and so are the rest of your furfamily

[CoraP.]

They are all beautiful! It's almost like Posh lacks the black pigment. I noticed there is no black outline around her eyes. Very different!

[chris]

I have been thinking... could your chowchow be part albineo? (I have no idea how to spell that)
Its like God forgot the pigment for the nose, tounge, and eye lids.... so over did it in the fur..... LOL... Don't think bad.. Im not making fun... I think she is so beautiful and unique.

[fillyok]

Wow! They're all just beautiful! Did they all just get back from the beauty salon???

[schnauziechow]

Which is why her color puzzled me. The dam is a solid black and the sire is a Cream, both already Champions. I guess her DNA is also mutated so as explain by another forummer in the other thread. From these pics, you cld clearly see the real chocolate shade which till date I have not seen in any chows before and that sets us in bewilderment. Her eyes are just like those of a husky lor... Shes currently 6mths of age. Still a pup.

Can some experts shed some light on her coloring?

[Laura]

She is beautiful as she is but what does her breeder say about her coloring and pigment? This is fascinating!

[schnauziechow]

Laura, the breeder have no idea also. In the litter, there were 2 other black siblings but sadly one of them did not make it. And shes the only color of such. Not seen in Singapore, she is already kinda of popular with this strange color. Her termperament is very much like a Chow! No doubt about that! I know there is no such thing as Chocolate but she is very chocolate lor

[Layla]

You may want to PM Judith Ann (Sengoz) about Posh. She was talking on another list about a genetics study that is currently being done on chows with abnormal colouring etc. Tracy's Leo (Brindle PB chow) is part of it. I have read about a litter with 2 'chocolate' chows before, but can't remember where now.....

[sengeoz]

Posh is definitely a cinnamon/fawn (cinnamon is the term used in the US/Canada, while fawn is the term used by countries under the FCI). There are colour variations in "fawns" that run from very pale mushroomy pinky/silvery to a deep mahogany. Posh is at the mahogany end in coat colouration.

Posh definitely missed out on the mouth/nasal pigment gene. It would be interesting to learn what else colour wise is behind her.

Schnauziechow - would you please either PM me or send me a private email to senge@iprimus.com.au - I am interested in contacting Posh's breeder as a follow on from a genetics study into Chows that is currently underway.

Cheers,

[schnauziechow]

My dear, she is a true blooded Chow. Though she has faults with a brown nose that is a disqualification in show. but nevertheless a Chow. Pom I dun tink so

That must be a pomeranian chow mix...

[schnauziechow]

You have PM.

Does that mean she is not a Chow without the black nose and black tongue?

Posh is definitely a cinnamon/fawn (cinnamon is the term used in the US/Canada, while fawn is the term used by countries under the FCI). There are colour variations in "fawns" that run from very pale mushroomy pinky/silvery to a deep mahogany. Posh is at the mahogany end in coat colouration.

Posh definitely missed out on the mouth/nasal pigment gene. It would be interesting to learn what else colour wise is behind her.

Schnauziechow - would you please either PM me or send me a private email to senge@iprimus.com.au - I am interested in contacting Posh's breeder as a follow on from a genetics study into Chows that is currently underway.

Cheers,

[sengeoz]

Does that mean she is not a Chow without the black nose and black tongue?

Not at all. She is a Chow, but one that is lacking the correct mouth, nose, eye-rim pigment gene. It may be either a genetic mutation or an inherited fault - but either way, she's still a Chow, albeit a unique one.

Cheers,

[schnauziechow]

Thanks for shedding light on Posh. Be it or not, shes one attitude chow and we still love her to the bits.

Does that mean she is not a Chow without the black nose and black tongue?

Not at all. She is a Chow, but one that is lacking the correct mouth, nose, eye-rim pigment gene. It may be either a genetic mutation or an inherited fault - but either way, she's still a Chow, albeit a unique one.

Cheers,

[kiwani]

Which is why her color puzzled me. The dam is a solid black and the sire is a Cream, both already Champions. I guess her DNA is also mutated so as explain by another forummer in the other thread. From these pics, you cld clearly see the real chocolate shade which till date I have not seen in any chows before and that sets us in bewilderment. Her eyes are just like those of a husky...

In addition to the tyrosinase mutation we've discussed, it seems she was heading towards black but some recessives got in the way. I tried posting an excerpt from this link, but the copy/paste prevents the post from going through.

Scroll to the section heading, Black or Brown - B Gene Locus, mentioning the 'final step' of black pigment production.

http://www.hnrworkingkelpies.com/Basic_ ... etics.html

[Sahara91]

She's definately not pure chow. For one, wrong coat colour, two, wrong tongue and nose colour, and three her head isn't the right shape for a chow - her muzzle is far too narrow even for an open faced Chow. Her face screams pomeranian to me. Pretty nontheless though.

[PurpleKisses]

She's definately not pure chow. For one, wrong coat colour, two, wrong tongue and nose colour, and three her head isn't the right shape for a chow - her muzzle is far too narrow even for an open faced Chow. Her face screams pomeranian to me. Pretty nontheless though.

What kind of Pomeranians do they have in your area?? hehe - I see no Pom in that dog at all. She looks chow to me..... Just lacking in pigment but it doesn't take away anything from her beauty!

[Sahara91]

I'm not denying that she's part Chow, that's obvious by her coat and the shape of her body. I still stand by what I said about her being a cross though - that face is definately not full Chow and it's backed up by her coat colour and tongue colour. I agree with the earlier post which mentions that she is also very small for a Chow. My girl is 7mths old and is HUGE compared to Posh, yet many people have commented that she is on the small side for a Chow. Being crossed with a breed such as a pom would explain the colouring, size and face shape.

[Auddymay]

I think she is a PB. I will say this, at the risk of insulting Posh's mum...her muzzle would also be a disqualification owing to it's length. My Lily's is a bit too long for the standard as well. She is still lovely to look at, though! Posh's coat color is likely also linked to her pigmentation over-all. I am no geneticist, though. That carmine pink tongue is shocking to see, when you are used to blue! I like the deep, self-colored chows alot!

[Coco Chow]

I'll have to agree with Xhena's mom, Posh is a very very pretty girl, but it's quite obvious that she's not a purebreed chow chow, and you both just said why.

[schnauziechow]

Fine. Whatever it is, I wil send in her genetics to the researchers to study and as for her pedigree cert, seems that I can dump into the trash bin

I have to agree about her disqualifications on certain features but that doesnt mean the least that she does not qualify to be a Chow right. Or perhaps I should show her pedigree cert and lets study her bloodlines.

[sengeoz]

Well all,

I'm not a geneticist, but have been very interested and been studying Chow & canine genetic research for some time. As a research analyst by profession and a Chow breeder by avocation, it's in my dogs' interest that I maintain a certain level of continuous education in all things canine related.

That being said, and in consultation with several long established and experienced breeders of Chows, I just want offer my opinion here that Posh is a pure bred Chow. That being said, I (and others believe) that she has a genetic mutation in the pigmentation sequencing which has affected the coat colour and has led to the lack of black pigmentation elsewhere (tongue, mouth, nose, eye rims, toe nails).

Otherwise, when assessing this pup, please keep in mind that one she is still young and is, in fact, adolescent and going through "the uglie". As for her muzzle - yep, often see that in dogs under 2 years of age. Aside from her pigmentation, or lack thereof, Posh is what I would expect to see in a young dog going through growth spurts and changes.

As for her size - please also keep in mind that many, many breeders, particularly in North America, breed to the minimum (17 inches at the withers) which has inherent problems leading to shorter than the minimum off spring. That is a whole other discussion which is more suited for the breeders amongst us rather than the general Chow owner. Depending on Posh's pedigree, if there are a lot of American/Canadian dogs behind her, it wouldn't surprise me if she is way under the minimum when she reaches full skeletal growth at about 18 months of age.

Just my opinion...

[schnauziechow]

Posh is of a Taiwan line as far as to my understanding. And just like in MS line in Taiwan, they are smaller and more compact in sizes. But my belief is tat she comes from either the American or Canadian line in the family bloodlines. I will be receiving her cert in another few days and I will share her line with all to understand more about the genetic spurn off