Very Very Serious Problem w. Max.

[JollyRojer]

Max as i introduced here is my now 1.5 year old chow chow mix hes been sort of a handful since ive gotten him. he showed early signs of slight dog aggressions which i calmed down to almost nothing and he was never aggressive with anyone BUT the woman that comes to clean our house (they had a bit of vacuum cleaner trauma he just wont get over) so when she comes we put him outside because he growls at her but hes never barked or showed his teeth to my knowledge (im never home so ive had a terrible time correcting this behavior) but today something totally out of character happened.

My mother brought max inside after the cleaning lady came to our house, max was fine with her inside because she was just doing the windows not a vacuum in sight. my mother has costumers for her business regularly in and out of the house and hes never had a problem with anyone, no jumping, no tackling, alittle invasive with the sniffing at times but nothing extraordinary. today the moment her customer pulled into the driveway she said he was going ballistic absolute nuts and when she came into the living room to calm him down she said he turned around showed his teeth at her and growled at her... hes NEVER displayed aggression like that especially not with anyone in the family. he stayed in the living room oddly though and refused to greet her customers like he usually does, very very odd.

i come home around 9pm and she tells me about this im thinking ok maybe he was just stressed with all the cars and people (bad excuse hes never done that no matter how many people or how much noise) but i didn't see it so i couldn't correct it. as she goes to bed hes laying in front of my door and she said she leaned down to pet him and he seemed fine and she was talking to him and he just lunged at her and bit her chin breaking the skin under her chin. I heard it and instantly was out of the door as he tried to scurry tward the stairs i caught his collar and rolled him onto his side and pinned him with just my one hand. (the most severe punishment he gets) and he stayed there until he relaxed (about a minute or 2) i removed my hands and he stayed laying until i ushered him into my room. with the door still open he moved to the corner of my room and sat i told him he was a bad dog and scolded him moving to about 3 feet my 1 hand in a pointer finger but not like i was going to hit him (he wasnt actually cornered the door was open and he was closest to the door i didnt have him stuck) i leaned down and as soon as i leaned down to him he lunged with no growl or anything and snapped my hand twice hard enough to break the skin and cause a good amount damage to my hand. but he dint run off, he stood there not growling but when i steed again twards him he showed his teeth silently but wasn't aggressive again i tapped his behind as i moved him out of the room. i went down stairs immediately afterward with him and i sat on the living room floor and he came over and sat with me but was shaking and very nervous he didnt flinch when i pet him at all but i dont understand. this was so explosive and then he like changed back to his usual self without any warning... i can only think of one thing... max was recently groomed (Tuesday) and altho he seemed fine afterward the groomer mentioned he was very nervous about the clippers and blow dryer (this was max's first groom) but i dont know what could be causing this...

im really sorry for the huge story but hes scared me this evening and im kinda ina panic. if anyone has any advice or suggestions or anything please let me know

cliffs - max bites 2 family members, draws blood, out of character, explosive, without audible warning. reverts almost instantly back to old self.

[Zhuyos mom]

I think he is in pain. He's externalizing it by lunging and nipping. Because you added the one new occurrence in his daily grind was being groomed. He might have hurt himself while at the groomers. You know how twisty chows can contort their bodies, especially when they are in the presence of a known trigger that irritates them like loud sounds, he might have twisted and strained a hip, an elbow, what have you, thinking he could get away. He could have even slipped and lost his footing on the tile or the basin. You can try doing a range of motion test yourself, but you might like to have his vet do it. That way if it is something as simple as a strain, the vet can prescribe him something to help relieve the pain. The vet can also check to see if there could be something more serious happening in him. Meanwhile, I'd keep him in a place where he can feel secure and calm at. Please keep us posted.

[JollyRojer]

^^ this makes alot of sense, when i followed him downstairs he paused in front of the back door like he wanted to go outside but with his rear left lifted off the ground trembling i honestly thought he was just gonna pee but he looked more hurt now that i think about it, and he didnt pee either but he put the foot back down and seemed to walk fine into the living room before sitting down on the floor with me...







this is essentially the reason i put off the grooming for so long, all these horror stories of injuries and bad cuts ect ect i really hope hes ok he seems to be avoiding me if i try and touch him now im going to wait till Tomorrow to try and do anything i really hope hes ok and i hope i don't need any stitches.

edit - i spent alot of time researching this groomer and she has won multiple show and club awards over the last 10 years and even the thought that max might of hurt himself in the care of someone else makes me kinda sick

[Zhuyos mom]

It's probably not the groomer's fault. He could be dysplatic genetically. Sometimes it shows up early in life, sometimes not. Maybe somethings going on with his knees. His body might be finishing up with his growth spurts. Before he bites again, I recommend you take him to the vet. Max looks pure breed and not mix. Do you know/did you meet his sire and dam?

[Grab]

Because it is a sudden change, I would start with a thorough vet check, including bloodwork. (thyroid issues can cause temperament changes)

IN this instance, it doesn't seem surprising that the incident escalated. I'm not a fan at all of rolling dogs on their sides. For whatever cause made him initially snap, being "attacked" (in his mind) and rolled, then scolded after the fact likely caused fear and frustration.

[Sarahloo]

IN this instance, it doesn't seem surprising that the incident escalated. I'm not a fan at all of rolling dogs on their sides. For whatever cause made him initially snap, being "attacked" (in his mind) and rolled, then scolded after the fact likely caused fear and frustration.

Not to mention a lot of pain, if he was hurting!

Chows usually aren't that great with strangers invading "their" home, so that could be why he's not such a big fan of your cleaning lady. As a precaution, I would keep him away from your mother's customers as long as you don't really know what's going on with him.

[JollyRojer]

Thanks for the comments guys.

i agree with you rolling him to his side wasn't the best thing to do but i couldn't think of anything else so i just reacted probably the same thing he was doing, not thinking simply reacting. i have a sneeking feeling its been an ongoing problem and its just now coming to a head, ever since he was 3 or 4 months old he does this sporadic almost random kicking of his back left leg, he fires it out seemingly without control of it in an extremely powerful kick and then reaches back and tries to bite at it, i brought it up to the vet during a few of his checks and she after evaluating him said she couldn't find anything wrong with his limbs and that he was probably just growing. but its seems to be happening more often the older he gets rather then less often, we r schedule for an appointment on Wed's so hopefully she can quickly diagnose whats wrong.

ive asked everyone in the family to pretend like nothings happened but that he should be kept away from any strangers until his vet visit. also calm down any behaviors that might cause him to become excited im going to be home for the next 2 days so i will have a thorough chance (finally) to evaluate his behavior throughout the day. and i did end up needing 3 stitches on the palm of my hand just before my thumb and my gosh does it hurt it feels like somebody hit my hand with the claw side of a hammer.

i will keep everyone updated as the week goes by i dont think i would half as nervous if he had given me some sort of audible warning i think the fact that he was silent and then just exploded is really unnerving me especially from a dog who has never showed aggression twards me or anyone else in the family.

[JollyRojer]

unfortunately i never got the chance to meet the sire, i rescued max from a friend of a friends family when he was barely 4 weeks old, the puppy's were all being kept outside in the rain and elements with no shots, food,water and shelter. I did catch a glimpse of his mother but she also was just wandering around the surrounding area, as i remember it she was on the small side (30-50lbs) very very red. i always just assumed he was mix with the coloring contrast and floppy ears.. its definitely possible hes full chow though.

[Victory]

unfortunately i never got the chance to meet the sire, i rescued max from a friend of a friends family when he was barely 4 weeks old, the puppy's were all being kept outside in the rain and elements with no shots, food,water and shelter. I did catch a glimpse of his mother but she also was just wandering around the surrounding area, as i remember it she was on the small side (30-50lbs) very very red. i always just assumed he was mix with the coloring contrast and floppy ears.. its definitely possible hes full chow though.

He looks full or at least 3/4 chow to me. The picture of him standing on 9/11/2010, though would have me having his hips looked at, a chow's back should be level and straight in that picture his appears to slop down, this is not a good confirmation, and could indicate some issues with his hips. He is at the age where dysplasia could start to cause pain, it's usually at 18 months to 2 years that the problems become apparent. Male chows don't fully mature physically or mentally until about age 3, so problems with their joints may not show up until late.

Also, he did warn you before he attacked, he backed up, that is often the one and only warning you get from a chow. By rolling him, you showed aggression and may have caused him pain, this is why he is still backing away from you and refusing to come to you. You've lost a bit of trust, and you're going to have to work to win it back. Warn the vet when you take him in that he has been showing signs of pain agression, stay with him during the exam, if a muzzle is needed, use it. Talk to him soothingly, but firmly. During the exam hold him firmly around the chest with one arm, pull him close to your body, like a hug, this will bring him comfort, with the other hand control his head, this is best done by grasping his collar under his chin firmly. I hold my chows like this during exams and the vets have been able to do a thorough exam on them without an assistant.