1st time Chow owner - 6 month old chow, little aggressive

[kampui]

Hi guys,

My girlfriend and I are new to the community here and have just recently acquired a 6-month old cream chow from a respected breeder in the Ontario horseshoe area.

For the first week, Chowder was very shy (as expected in a new environment). Didn't respond to much, nor did she eat that much either. She backed away from us any chance she had. She was however trained to pee and poop outside which was a great relief. It was a struggle to get her to move from room to room though, she would plop in one place and stay there for hours on end. Whenever my girlfriend or I tried to make her move to the next room, she would offer a lot of resistence and plant her feet down so that she could not be moved.

She eventually softened up a bit and let her guard down slightly and is not as scared of us as she used to be. However, just in the last few days, she started to turn a little aggressive on us. My girlfriend loves to hold her head and caress her face (which Chowder let her do before). Except, one night, Chowder snapped and jerked her head just barely nicking my gf's face. I repeated on her to see if she would do the same thing and sure enough, so I yelled "No!" and sat her down. That was incident #1.

The next morning, Chowder was hanging out by the entry door and I approached her to take her to the living room. As I reached for her collar, she snapped, hissed and resisted at my hand, in which case I had to apply some force to pin her down to get her to relax. That was incident #2.

Later that night, I was grooming her on one side which she was quite behaved in receiving. Since she was in a corner, I had to get her to turn around, so I reached under her to lift and turn her around (she had been lifted before without resistance, so I didn't see why this would be any different). She immediately snapped her mouth at me and I had to take my hand and pin her down and yell "No!" again. I noticed it startled her when I yelled "No!", so I'm pretty sure I got my point across to her. That was incident #3.

I guess my question is where all this aggression came out of all of a sudden. My girlfriend and I have been treating her well as much as we know and this appears to have come out of no where.

We read a lot of advice on the Internet, but there is so much contradicting advice out there. We watch a lot of Dog Whisperer but we're also told that Chows are not pack animals so they don't respond to the same type of techniques.

Any comments welcome!

Frustrated.

[enchantedonyx]

I don't have any advice for you, but you've come to the right place. This site is full of great info about training and aggressive behavior. I just wanted to wish you luck with Chowder and welcome you to the world of Chow ownership.

[Auddymay]

Even though you have a 'puppy' (we call them chowlings around here), she is past her most critical socializing time. This was spent with minimal human contact, I'm sure. She will likely do well around other dogs from being around all the breeder's adults, but you are now faced with a half grown chowling.

First, stop playing kissy face and such with her. She is not sure about you guys, and you are taking liberties. The first times you handled her, she was unsure how to respond. She is now trying out her repetoire of responses on you. Definitely do not allow this behavior, but she also needs more time to realize you are her new people.

If an animal, any animal, is in a corner,wait until said animal is out of the corner to try and handle it. If you need to extricate Chowder from a corner for whatever reason, use an implement, such as a broom, to gently herd her out of the corner.

Continue with grooming, and short periods are best to start. Also scratch her around the jaw, just below her ear while grooming (mine love this). Offer to pet her as she is walking by, but don't force it. I had Lily since she was 8 weeks old, and she took a full month to want me to pet her. If she rejects the offer to pet, don't take it personal!

Incorporate NILF- link provided. Good luck! (And keep asking questions, sharing photos, etc...)

http://www.sspca.org/Dogs/TANSTAAFL.html

[kampui]

Thanks for the advice, guys. Such a great community here. I also plan to take her to obedience classes as well so I am hoping the Vet we are seeing later today will have some good suggestions for Chow Chow obedience schools.

BTW, here is a picture of Chowder that I took when we first got her (1.5 weeks ago).

[Auddymay]

Oh, she is beautiful! I noticed her tail is down, even though she is smiling...the tail is a big communicator to the chow-a down tail often (but not always) means distress. You will pick up alot from reading her tailset. And wag.

I forgot, yes, basic training will help establish your bond. Select one that uses positive reinforcement and not discipline. Chows don't react well to physical corrections as some other breeds might.

[Victory]

I would recommend that you begin a very strict regime of NILF, (nothing in life is free) This chowling is very poorly socialized and one of the things with chows is that if they aren't socialized properly humans become, the-being-that-brings-the-food, and they learn to live without the emotional attachment other canines crave, (chows do not crave this contact unless they have been taught to from a very young age) With a strict NILF program you keep her with you at all times and she has to do a behavior, just letting you touch her, to get fed. You pet her, she accepts then you feed her a hand full of food. You do a little brushing, she gets another handfull, she must learn that ALL good things come from you.

At the same time I also strongly recommend you stop the physical restraining. Chows don't like it and she will be come more "hand shy" which is the what her behavior is called, eventually this can result in every time you lift your hand toward her, (or anyone does) she will snap or bite first and think about it second. And like Auddymay said, also stop the kissy face thing, that is something she should be initating. In the world of canines, the subordinate intiates face licking and such as a show of respect and submissiveness, the alphas accept the show as their right and as proof of their superiority, by you intiating the behavior you show submissiveness to her thereby reinforcing her alpha behaviors. Because of her lack of poor human/canine socialization she is acting more in the way of how one dog behaves with another.

chows are a bit like cats in their emotional behaviors and you have to be careful not to make them more wary and afraid. As well as getting her more used to you and your girl friend, I would recommend that you take her out into the world and new situations, new people, every time she behaves well, (if it's just a new place she is relaxed and curious, not cringing or trying to hide) with new people she approaches them with a happy face and wagging tail at the best or simply ignores them; then reward her with praise and/or treats, (I think treats would be good right now)

I'm going to warn you that this puppy was not given the care she should have at the beginning of her life and this is something that will take a lot of persistence, patience and commitment on your part. But if you are willing to put in the effort you will end up with the best canine companion you've ever known.

[kampui]

Thank you for all the wonderful insight guys.

One thing I would like to add is that she doesn't respond very much to treats. In fact, she doesn't really care for them. We bought her some Alpo Chewys and we make her sniff it first. She knows its something she wants, but she will make no effort to move towards it. She will only lick it if its directly in front of her face and nothing more.

I've tried to tempt her with cheddar cheese, but again, she won't eat it unless it's right infront of her nose or face, otherwise, she'll just ignore it.

This makes it a little tougher to reinforce/reward her for good behaviour.

[Victory]

Thank you for all the wonderful insight guys.

One thing I would like to add is that she doesn't respond very much to treats. In fact, she doesn't really care for them. We bought her some Alpo Chewys and we make her sniff it first. She knows its something she wants, but she will make no effort to move towards it. She will only lick it if its directly in front of her face and nothing more.

I've tried to tempt her with cheddar cheese, but again, she won't eat it unless it's right infront of her nose or face, otherwise, she'll just ignore it.

This makes it a little tougher to reinforce/reward her for good behaviour.

If you can find them try Solid Gold Lamb treats, I can't use them for training with my two because they will do everything at once to get them...(they pay attention to the fact that I have a treat in my hand and not to the command) They like these better than anything else, and mine are food motivated, (many chows are not) but letting her be a little hungry will help with this as well. And if she doesn't do something for the treat, don't give it to her, but it back into a dish in the frig. She ONLY gets them when she earns them. That's the trick to NILF, she only gets the treat or food when she earns it, plain and simple. This is where consistency comes in for you, you must stick to your guns and get her to do what YOU want her to do, not give in to her.

[sit_by_the_beach]

Welcome to the forum. I can't give much advice as I never owned a young chow. Just wondering, have you approached the breeder for any advice? If it's a good breeder they will give advice.

Both my previous and present chow don't like super market treats. My chow loves Benny Bully's liver chops. I only give them for good behaviour. My chow will not accept treats from strangers. Some chows aren't crazy about treats. They're not like other dogs.

Good luck,
Karin

[IliamnasQuest]

Hi, and welcome to the forum!

I'm sorry to hear that you're having this problem. I do want to comment on a few things that you said. You mentioned that you got Chowder from a "respected breeder" and that she was very shy "as expected in a new environment". I have some problems with these statements - not that you said them, but at the background behind them.

Dogs of all breeds, but especially ones from breeds with a high level of independence, need extensive socialization at a young age. The major part of their personality is developed by the time they're 12-16 WEEKS old. A good breeder starts socializing when the pups are around four weeks old and continues that throughout the time the pup is with them. By the time the puppy is 8-12 weeks old, they should willingly and happily accept handling by strangers, including children, men, people in hats, etc. They should understand and accept grooming, nail trimming, ear cleaning, handling of all parts of their bodies, opening their mouths, etc. There should be zero aggression. They should understand a collar and leash and how to walk on leash. They should be crate trained. These are all responsibilities of a good, respected breeder.

I suspect that the breeder you purchased your girl from didn't do this. It doesn't sound like she was properly handled or socialized prior to coming to you. She shouldn't have been shy in a new environment - properly handled, she would have been taken a lot of places and been exposed to a variety of experiences.

Because of this lack of proper handling earlier, it makes your job MUCH more difficult. And because she's well past the age where the majority of her personality is set, she may never become a really trustworthy dog around other people. I do expect you can get her to accept you, but it's a huge concern that she is so willing to bite at you already. Again, a properly handled puppy learns bite inhibition at a young age.

As has already been mentioned, use of the "Nothing In Life Is Free" method is highly recommended. NILIF means that you will control ALL the resources and she will learn that the only way to get what she wants is to do what you want. It's not based on force or anger or emotion .. it's simply withholding treats, food, access to outdoors, toys, etc. until she provides a simple behavior to earn them.

Chows are independent but that doesn't mean they don't exhibit pack behaviors like most dogs. My three chows are all part of the family "pack" and because of that we have had to establish a bit of hierarchy with me at the top. I currently have four bitches living together (one is a shepherd) and I've had as many as five. Without the establishment of leadership on my part I would have a mess on my hands. Dogs respond well to consistent, fair, kind and yet firm leadership.

I have tips for setting rules for a proper leadership and pack hierarchy on my website (http://www.kippsdogs.com/tips.html). This, along with the NILIF link above, will help give you some tools to work with. Since you now know that she is willing to bite, it's important not to put her into positions where she feels she has to bite. I would quit watching the Dog Whisperer - his methods are archaic and built entirely on his ability to force dogs into submission. He's charismatic and people like watching him but if you understand dog behavior and signals you would know that the dogs he's dominating are extremely stressed and are giving in to him because of fear, which makes for a really crappy relationship. He doesn't really have relationships with those dogs - he simply chokes them into submission and then sticks them with a pack of dogs. They don't live in a family atmosphere with him like we expect ours to do. While I think there IS a place for proper corrections, Milan is cruel and overbearing and it amazes me that anyone allows him to touch their "beloved" dogs. The only things he says that I agree with is that dogs need leadership and they need exercise. But leadership does NOT have to mean fear and pain, and exercise does not have to mean exhaustion.

You might want to let Chowder drag a leash while she's in the house. This would allow you to pick up the leash and calmly say "let's go" and walk her to where you want her without having to use your hands on her. I'd use really good treats in training - small bits of meat and cheese, liverwurst, etc. - and keep your voice calm, low and happy as much as possible. Yelling "no" at her is only going to increase her stress and her reactivity at this point. You may get the reaction you want AT the time you yell "no", but it's not fixing the underlying problem. By avoiding confrontation and working through the problems, you'll gain her trust and then her compliance as she relaxes and accepts your leadership.

I'm truly sorry to hear that you're having these problems. While you described the breeder as "respectable", I just really think that they didn't do what is their responsibility as a breeder to do. I'm curious as to what kind of health testing they do, too .. did they give you OFA numbers on both the sire and dam of this girl?

Good luck, and be persistent. I know it's disappointing to have a warm fluffy dog that you now are concerned about getting close to. There are some great breeders in Ontario - my Khana came from Ontario and arrived after traveling 12 hours (to Alaska), coming out of the kennel completely confident, happy, outgoing and playful. Her breeder did an excellent job of socializing and training, and at eight weeks (when I got her) Khana had a perfect personality. With continued socialization and training she's turned out fantastic - accepts all types of handling, loves people and other dogs, is certified as a therapy dog and has her first two rally obedience titles, all at less than two years old. I just can't stress too much how important it is to have a breeder who is conscientious and handles the puppies properly from a very young age.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[Judy Fox]

Hello and welcome to the site.
Can I suggest that you just hang in there and take it easy.
Firstly, instead of petting her and fondling her etc., can I suggest you just talk to her and "ignore" her.
Just carry on your chores around the house and let her watch you.
Chow Chows are great watchers.
She will watch you both and work out in her own mind what is going on.
You have to gain her trust and that will take time. Just talk to her - and do not underestimate how much she will understand.
Certainly don't try to force her to do anything. You say she is housetrained so you do not have a problem there. She is still very young so you will be ok.
Do not shout at her and never raise your hand to her - chows do not tolerate it.
However, I agree, you cannot tolerate her snapping or mouthing you. So, do not put you or her in the position where she feels she has to do so.
She is probably a bit confused and not sure of how things are going to be so create a calm and peaceful atmosphere. Ignore her - she will come to you eventually - but always leave the lines of comunication open by just talking to her and not expecting a response from her - eventually you will get the response you yearn - but on her terms, when she is ready.
Don't worry about her lying for hours watching - she will start to move around when she is ready. The more you fuss her the more wary she will be. As I have said, just get on with your own doings and just talk to her whilst you are passing, making no big thing about it. She will listen, trust me.!
Then, and only then will you start creating a bond and a relationship with her. Once you have gained her trust and then her love, you will have no greater friend. But you must be patient.
Then following on from that, you will then be able to negotiate with her about behaviour, rules and how you intend to run the household.
Good luck.
By the way she is very beautiful and looks well bred.

[RHENEGADE CHOWS]

O/T advice for you. I see she has quite a bib and it looks a little damp in the photo. I see she has an "open" waterbowl. I would really recommend you get a "water hole" for her as it helps prevent chows bibs getting soaked. When they do get soaked like that they normally stay soaked and you'll notice an odor. It's thier skin. They can get quite an infection if you don't take precautions. (been there done that)
Just a helpful tip for you. Take it or leave it
Welcome.
http://www.arcatapet.com/item.cfm?cat=1700

there is a link to what they look like.

[sit_by_the_beach]

I do wonder if you bought a pre-owned chow. A chow that was returned to the breeder by another owner? It's a possibility. Was the chow a few months old?
My chow is from the Niagara area and in the previous vet's med. chart it's mentioned that she needed to be socialized, she was 6 months old then. I got her when she was three years old.
Karin

[Dogdad]

Welcome, Your baby is beautiful, If she is suddenly becoming aggressive it coud mean that she has a health problem. Has she had a full blood work exam done? If so then perhaps it is still being new and frightened that is causing it. I have 6 dogs and even though some are the same breeds, they don't like the same type of attention. Perhaps she has bad memories of having her collar yanked or head it that she is leary of anyone being that close to her

Dogdad

[cheriekynb]

What a beautiful baby!! I just wanted to add that NILF and IGNORING works really great!! It's a lot like positive parenting though and it takes a LOT of patience and self-discipline for the 'Chowpent' (parent, get it? haha) you have to follow through and always do it, not just do it once in a while.

[kampui]

Hi all,

Again, thanks for the wonderful feedback!

We took Chowder to the vet earlier today and as usual, she was a little leery of what was going on. She didn't take any of the vet's best available treats (some liver treat that most dogs go crazy over).. she smelled it, thought about it for a sec, then turned her head away.

The good thing is she didn't try to bite anyone when the vet tried to examine her mouth, but she did back away nervously and almost fell off the examining table.

The vet didn't like what he saw and especially what he heard about how Chowder snapped at us. He said we had to think hard about whether or not this was the right dog for us (not Chows as a whole, but just this particular one) especially considering most of you are right in that she wasn't properly socialized when she was a pup.

The breeder had told us that she intended to keep Chowder for herself originally, but confessed that she wasn't able to put in the time and effort to properly train her the way she was supposed to be trained (then again, the breeder could say anything). And definitely at 6 months, it appears that Chowder is past that usual stage when she was supposed to be properly socialized. That's not to say it isn't possible, just a lot harder than we had probably hoped for.

Another thing to note is that Chowder just doesn't appear to be chewing a lot, she only likes to lick when she does respond to stuff like Alpo Chewees. Its just so strange that at 6 months she is behaving this way. I am convinced she even just swallows her kibbles rather than chewing any of them as well.

We are going to try using the NILF method as most of you have suggested. Chowder was probably raised thinking that food was always there for her (as the breeder always kept food out for her).

The mention about the water hole is a good one too, we might consider that since her bib does get all wet whenever she drinks water and she tracks all that water everywhere she walks around the condo.

Here's one more picture of Chowder in her calmer moments... I love this one.

[cheriekynb]

AWWWWWWWWWWW, what a squishy little face!! I love it!!

[IliamnasQuest]

And definitely at 6 months, it appears that Chowder is past that usual stage when she was supposed to be properly socialized. That's not to say it isn't possible, just a lot harder than we had probably hoped for.

Hi again -

I'm glad that you took Chowder into the vet and that she behaved pretty well - she may have been a bit shy but it could have been much worse! Did the vet say she appeared to be healthy? Dogdad brought up a possible health problem which is always something to consider when a dog acts aggressive. With her only being six months old and only with you a week and a half, it's really likely this is temperament and not health, but it's good to be aware.

Just a few notes on your last post:

It's not unusual for dogs to refuse even really good treats when at the vets. I take special treats - little bits of meat, etc. - because my dogs often don't like the vet treats. Of course, it may be that they're a tad bit spoiled .. *L*

I have chows that tend to swallow everything whole, so her lack of chewing may just be the way she is. And some dogs who have to compete for food when they're young learn to eat fast, which means no chewing. Kylee never chews anything small enough to swallow whole and she's done that for the past decade and a half!

I'm really sorry to hear that the breeder didn't put the time and effort into socializing and training .. I really suspected that was the case. I'm sure the people on this forum think I sound like a broken record, but I'm a huge believer in lots of socializing and exposure to sounds, sights, etc. when puppies are young. I've been a trainer for some 18 years now and have taught classes and given behavioral consultations for a good part of that time and most of the personality problems I've seen in dogs have traced back to a lack of proper socializing. And it can be especially bad in "independent" breeds. But as you said, it isn't impossible. The shy dog that I adopted was about five months old when I got her and she'd had little to no socialization outside of her own littermates. She'd also never been crate trained or handled much and got shoved into a crate and shipped. Tori was incredibly scared of everything and it just kind of hit you in the heart when you saw the fear in her eyes.

But on the good side, she DID come out of it even though she was past the normal socialization time. I lucked out - she never offered aggressive behaviors - but she had no confidence and chose not to interact with people. I won't sugar-coat it, though. It took years and a lot of effort on my part for her to finally accept other people. It was worth it, though. To see her finally comfortable enough to voluntarily approach strangers was a fantastic feeling.

In your case, the first step is just getting Chowder to understand the rules of the household and to bond with you. The concepts of NILIF are subtle but powerful. It's not designed to frighten, intimidate or dominate your dog. You just give her a job, so to speak, and that job is to give you what you want before she gets what she wants.

I would also encourage you to do the attention training that is outlined on my website. I've used this on every dog I've trained in the last 14 years or so - even used it to change the name on Dora when I got her (she was called "Sunni" and she's BLACK .. *LOL*). It's a fun game for the dog because all they have to do is look at you and they get something really yummy to eat, and it's an excellent way to teach your dog that paying attention to you is always rewarded.

Slow steady steps, building on success, will bring her around. You've got a lifetime with her .. and all the work you do now will pay off in the long run.

Looking at that fluffy girl, I'm sure one of the things you want to do more than anything else is to be able to love on her. I expect that will happen and hopefully sooner than you think, but right now it probably just scares her. It took awhile for Dora to accept that kind of handling and in fact she bit me the first time I tried to trim her nails (she was 14 months old when I got her). But I can pick her up and hug on her and snuggle my face into hers and she waggles her tail like crazy now. It took awhile for trust to build, is all.

Best of luck to you, and I'm glad you came her for some advice!

Melanie and the gang

[Victory]

I'm really sorry to hear that the breeder didn't put the time and effort into socializing and training .. I really suspected that was the case. I'm sure the people on this forum think I sound like a broken record, but I'm a huge believer in lots of socializing and exposure to sounds, sights, etc. when puppies are young.

Best of luck to you, and I'm glad you came her for some advice!

Melanie and the gang

Naw Melanie I for one am not tired of hearing that. I just look at my little brat boy and know that if Linda and Ann hadn't spent so much time with him from 4-8 weeks when I got him I'd have a very different little man right now. Just like your Khana he and his litter-sib GingerLily came off their flights completely ready to bond and not afraid of anything. He came right to the door of his carrier and started sniffing and licking my fingers, (and nipping which he got told "no" for--L--) immediately. I could pick him up, carry him around, let him visit the vet, petco and be held by strangers and that was all in the first few hours! I think the more people who talk about how important training of very young dogs is the better. So you just keep saying it and so will I and alot of folks here and that's all to the better I think.

[TJordan]

You could try a higher value treat to get her going. Some chicken or steak or something like that. When I started training Butters he wouldn't have anything to do with treats. But the good stuff he would get excited about and work for. You have gotten great advice and I hope you will hang in there and make it work. She is a beautiful chow.

[Auddymay]

Lily can stubbornly turn her nose up to venison, if the wrong hand is holding it. Like others said, once you take away her ability to eat at will, she will become more receptive to treats. Just make sure that you don't expect her to do more advanced things to earn her food at first. Start simple, and be consistent. Also, when we are away from home, Lily won't eat most treats, even from my hand- never from a stranger. She will take a treat from a stranger at home, but you can almost see the conflict on her face as she does it.

Food doesn't have to be the only motivator. Once Lily knew sit and stay, I required she stand at the back door with it wide open while I fetch her tieout. I then drag it in the house. When I have it in hand, I ask her to sit so I can snap it on. She does this now as a matter of routine, but I had to shut the door in her face a few times to get a result. I also used this training when I was sure she didn't need to potty bad. You don't want to put her house breaking to the test yet!

[Lise Carreno]

Oh, she is just the most beautiful chowkin ever!

I think my Mia didn't get too socialized during her critical 4 weekish stage, cause since I got her at 8 weeks and have socialized her gently EVERY SINGLE DAY, it's still a struggle.

Don't give up, she is just too cute.
Good Luck.

[kampui]

Hi all,

I'm sad, but somewhat happy to report that after three and a half weeks, my gf and I thought it was best that we returned Chowder to her breeder and original environment. Chowder didn't seem happy at all to be with us as she was constantly skiddish around humans and didn't trust anyone, especially us. This made it increasingly difficult for us to try and train her and win her affection towards us. Although there were brief moments when we thought we saw progress, for the most part, it seemed like Chowder was really depressed while indoors and the only enjoyment she really got was when we took her for walks outside.

When we brought Chowder back to the breeder, she was so excited and started jumping all over the place and wagging her tail. Something we had never seen her do when she was with us. My gf and I both knew we had done the right thing for us and Chowder.

On the bright side, a newly born litter of cream chows were available to my gf and I and we will be picking up a new 8-week old chow-chow during the first weekend of September. This new-born puppy will give us the ability to start fresh with a new puppy and train him/her the best we can. Stay tuned!


Chowder can't wait to get back to her friends & family.


Chowder is ecstatic!


Chowder is free-roaming.


So happy.


Back in her natural habitat.

[Layla]

She really does look like a happy girl in those pictures! That must have been so hard for you, yet so lovely to see her that happy.

You know we like puppy pictures yes?

[Grab]

Are the breeder's dogs raised in kennels? (noted the runs with doghouses) I'm not fond of any dog living outside, and Chows just seem to do better when inside with their families. Are the litters raised indoors or out in kennels?