Is It Inadvisable to Cross-Breed Chows?
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Duke of Earl
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Is It Inadvisable to Cross-Breed Chows?
I've recently come across a vet's opinion on the Web that crossing Chows with other breeds is a bad idea, since it can frequently result in mentally-retarded pups being born which grow up to be dangerous dogs. This bums me out rather, since I was thinking of trying to produce a whippet-chow cross (which I figure would be a brilliant creation, since the two breeds would cancel out each other's drawbacks perfectly whilst combining their plus points).
Does anyone have any experience of nightmarish chow cross-breeds? Should I reconsider my plans?
Thanks.
Does anyone have any experience of nightmarish chow cross-breeds? Should I reconsider my plans?
Thanks.
that would be an ugly dog. their body structures are so opposites. i don't know much about whippets but i have seen them and i think you would have a strange outcome. and i think they only come out retarded if you mate them back with a parent or sibling like with humans. but the real questions is... why would you want to do that?
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Rogansmommy
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I have to agree with Maxwell. Structurally, those two breeds are complete opposite.
Also, why would you intentionally breed to produce mutts? Not to sound like an elitist, but if you really want a Heinz 57 variety dog, go to the pound. There are plenty of cool dogs to choose from and you don't add to the overpopulation of canines out there.
Another thing: you mention that if you breed whippet/chows, that breeding will cancel the negatives out. NOT TRUE! You will get all different varieties of personalities and looks... some could even be the worst of both breeds. What will you do with those ugly, ill-tempered puppies? It's not fair to the dogs.
Please, don't breed. Leave the breeding to the professionals, who title their dogs and breed for health and temperment. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think your suggestion is ridiculous.
Also, why would you intentionally breed to produce mutts? Not to sound like an elitist, but if you really want a Heinz 57 variety dog, go to the pound. There are plenty of cool dogs to choose from and you don't add to the overpopulation of canines out there.
Another thing: you mention that if you breed whippet/chows, that breeding will cancel the negatives out. NOT TRUE! You will get all different varieties of personalities and looks... some could even be the worst of both breeds. What will you do with those ugly, ill-tempered puppies? It's not fair to the dogs.
Please, don't breed. Leave the breeding to the professionals, who title their dogs and breed for health and temperment. I don't mean to sound harsh, but I think your suggestion is ridiculous.
Michele
^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
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Samorrathis
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I personally think that there are enough accidental crossbreed chows that need homes and that chow chows should only be breed to better the breed.
As a matter of fact I'm unsure if I shouldn't get my dog neutered. He is absolutly beautiful AKC papered chow but I want to make sure he has all the great qualities I would like to pass to future generations.
Just remember a breeding will produce (in most cases) several puppies and what if those puppies have undesirable traits, what will become of them?
As a matter of fact I'm unsure if I shouldn't get my dog neutered. He is absolutly beautiful AKC papered chow but I want to make sure he has all the great qualities I would like to pass to future generations.
Just remember a breeding will produce (in most cases) several puppies and what if those puppies have undesirable traits, what will become of them?
what an ugly dog that would be! If you want a Chow type mix - look up the Euraiser breed. There is no guarantee that the you'll just get the good characteristics - you might get the worst and probably twice the trouble! But really...a Whippet?-
Duke of Earl
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Whoah, there! It's not as if I'm suggesting the ruination of the Chow Chow race here. I'm just thinking sensibly in terms of owner compatability, that's all.
I'm a writer living alone; I spend many hours each day sitting in silent concentration, so I'm the total opposite of a busy household where there's always something going on. Both chows and whippets are cool with the idea of pottering about the house doing their own thing (or just lolling); neither breed pesters its owners non-stop or lies there sighing deeply due to mega-boredom. Sure I'd walk the dog 2 or 3 times daily - but it makes sense to go for a sympathetic breed, y'know? A breed that'd fit with my lifestyle and remain happy and contented.
I figure that adding chow blood to a whippet would (a) rid the whippet-side of its discomfort re. lying on hard surfaces and (b) give it a coat that'd be warmer for it in winter (I love Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb and never switch the heating on). On the chow side, the whippet blood would (a) result in an improved field of vision, (b) result in a more mobile breed (since the hind legs would presumably be restructured) and (c) result in a dog that was more outgoing and friendly with children/strangers/other animals. Maybe the legs would actually remain chow-like, but that wouldn't be a problem for me.
I figure that the Spitzy aspect and curly tail would remain and that the dog would look something like a Basenji or Norwegian Lundehund but with a Smoothie-Chow-style coat and a generally-meatier aspect - i.e. by no means an ugly bug.
My only worry is that the Chow's genetic singularity may be what causes cross-breeds to be somewhat tricky. If we believe this stuff about chows being the missing link between dogs and bears (44 milk teeth etcetera), then maybe there's a fundamental risk when it comes to playing mix 'n' match.
I'm a writer living alone; I spend many hours each day sitting in silent concentration, so I'm the total opposite of a busy household where there's always something going on. Both chows and whippets are cool with the idea of pottering about the house doing their own thing (or just lolling); neither breed pesters its owners non-stop or lies there sighing deeply due to mega-boredom. Sure I'd walk the dog 2 or 3 times daily - but it makes sense to go for a sympathetic breed, y'know? A breed that'd fit with my lifestyle and remain happy and contented.
I figure that adding chow blood to a whippet would (a) rid the whippet-side of its discomfort re. lying on hard surfaces and (b) give it a coat that'd be warmer for it in winter (I love Nov/Dec/Jan/Feb and never switch the heating on). On the chow side, the whippet blood would (a) result in an improved field of vision, (b) result in a more mobile breed (since the hind legs would presumably be restructured) and (c) result in a dog that was more outgoing and friendly with children/strangers/other animals. Maybe the legs would actually remain chow-like, but that wouldn't be a problem for me.
I figure that the Spitzy aspect and curly tail would remain and that the dog would look something like a Basenji or Norwegian Lundehund but with a Smoothie-Chow-style coat and a generally-meatier aspect - i.e. by no means an ugly bug.
My only worry is that the Chow's genetic singularity may be what causes cross-breeds to be somewhat tricky. If we believe this stuff about chows being the missing link between dogs and bears (44 milk teeth etcetera), then maybe there's a fundamental risk when it comes to playing mix 'n' match.
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Guest
Hey, you are an optimist and I dig that, but "what if" you get a mix that includes the lesser appreciated aspects of each breed? What would you do? Actually, this could be a interesting premise for a novel, think "The Fly"! Persoanlly I love chow lab crosses, and their body types are more compatible.
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Judy Fox
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I don't think it is a good idea to cross-breed any breed - there are enough accidents anyway.
But, to breed purposely, to produce a puppy you might like!
What would possibly happen to the other pups in the litter?
You might like your one - what about homes for the others?
Could they perhaps end up in shelters, unhappy and unwanted?
But, to breed purposely, to produce a puppy you might like!
What would possibly happen to the other pups in the litter?
You might like your one - what about homes for the others?
Could they perhaps end up in shelters, unhappy and unwanted?
(Thank you Sweetpea for my new banner.)
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Genetics 101
Extensively research genetics. After you do that you will have your answer.
The outcomes you are looking for would only happen with extreme gene selection controlled in a lab if at all. Multiple traits are sometimes only associated with one gene. It would take years and multiple breedings to select for certain traits.
Then you have to take into consideration the ethics of what you are proposing. Millions of dogs die each year from a simple lack of a home. You want to create more dogs to satisfy a personal preference based on your lifestyle? There isn't something in the MILLIONS of dogs that die every year to meet your lack of exercise requirements? Not to mention one part of the proposed cross is already notoriously hard to find a suitable home for because of how misunderstood they are.
Look, its nice to dream and go, Hey' what if? But please don't attempt this.
The outcomes you are looking for would only happen with extreme gene selection controlled in a lab if at all. Multiple traits are sometimes only associated with one gene. It would take years and multiple breedings to select for certain traits.
Then you have to take into consideration the ethics of what you are proposing. Millions of dogs die each year from a simple lack of a home. You want to create more dogs to satisfy a personal preference based on your lifestyle? There isn't something in the MILLIONS of dogs that die every year to meet your lack of exercise requirements? Not to mention one part of the proposed cross is already notoriously hard to find a suitable home for because of how misunderstood they are.
Look, its nice to dream and go, Hey' what if? But please don't attempt this.
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Duke of Earl
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As for doing careful genetic research....how genetic are we talking? Lab-genetic? I take the point that even if extreme care is taken, I could still end up with a dawg that wasn't as I envisaged. But I'm assuming (from everything I've read) that breeding from a Black Smooth Chow bitch would be my best bet temperament-wise.
Or is someone about to rubbish that whole 'black chows are the smartest and most biddable ones' idea?
Or is someone about to rubbish that whole 'black chows are the smartest and most biddable ones' idea?
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Rogansmommy
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Or is someone about to rubbish that whole 'black chows are the smartest and most biddable ones' idea?
I will! I will!!! Temperment is not directly tied to color or *Censored Word* for that matter. It is purely how the dog is raised. All Chows are born aloof, stand-offish and moody. ALL of them. It is the OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY to make their Chow a self-assured, loving, responsible member of society. My MALE CREAM Chow holds two obedience titles. TWO of his litter-mates had to be sent to the bridge because of aggression. SAME PARENTS - DIFFERENCE IN RAISING.
You have no concept of what you suggest and no understanding of the repurcussions of your action.
I will! I will!!! Temperment is not directly tied to color or *Censored Word* for that matter. It is purely how the dog is raised. All Chows are born aloof, stand-offish and moody. ALL of them. It is the OWNER'S RESPONSIBILITY to make their Chow a self-assured, loving, responsible member of society. My MALE CREAM Chow holds two obedience titles. TWO of his litter-mates had to be sent to the bridge because of aggression. SAME PARENTS - DIFFERENCE IN RAISING.
You have no concept of what you suggest and no understanding of the repurcussions of your action.
Michele
^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
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IliamnasQuest
I am just sitting here shaking my head in amazement at some of this.
Duke of Earl - please PLEASE tell me that you don't seriously believe the statements you've made in this thread? If you are a writer, perhaps it's time to do an indepth article on genetics, or behavior traits based on color/texture of coat in dogs, or even on the number of mixed breed dogs that are produced daily and killed daily because there aren't enough good homes available. And perhaps, in your research, you will realize that your thoughts on breeding for a chow/whippet cross are a tad bit ludicrous.
First of all - what truly would be the point of deliberately taking a chow and breeding it to a whippet? What if you got all the "bad" traits and none of what you thought you'd get? What would you do with all the other puppies - maybe you'd have a litter of eight awkward little dogs that are most likely going to end up dead because you can't find homes for them. If you want a dog that has more coat than a whippet but less than a chow; is laid back and quiet in the house; handles cold weather okay; and has more angulation than a chow in the hind legs - well, darn, I'm sure the shelters are already FULL of mixed breeds that would fit just fine with your life. Why produce more dogs that aren't needed, just to fulfill a passing thought you have that this mix would be perfect for YOU?
On the thought of the black smooth chow: temperament, intelligence and ability have zero to do with the color or texture of the coat. Anyone that has told you so is sadly mistaken. There are lines of dogs in any breed that tend to be more easily trained or athletic, but that's not due to color of coat. I currently have three chows. The oldest one, a cinnamon, has been the top chow in the U.S. two years in obedience, and holds 10 performance titles. The middle chow is a black one, who I have coaxed through agility courses to get her novice titles. She's the only dog I have that I can't trust off-leash in the yard. My youngest chow is a red, and she is bright and is working in freestyle, obedience, flyball and will be starting agility soon. She's only ten months old but I take her off-leash out in the yard without any problems. You just can't judge a dog on the color of its coat.
Now, to answer your initial question .. *L* .. there are characteristics in the chow breed that can make cross-breeding tricky. Just because a dog is only half chow doesn't mean it won't necessarily retain all the chow traits. Chows can be extremely independent, smart to the point of controlling their owners, aggressive without proper handling and socialization, and territorial. If you're not willing to spend time socializing and training, then I don't recommend any dog to you. Living alone is no excuse! In fact, if you live alone then you really need to make an effort to get your dog out especially when young. Dogs of any breed need socializing young, but especially independent breeds like chows (and mixes).
However, that being said (and yes, I know I'm "wordy" .. *chuckles*) .. the vet who said that chow mixes would be "mentally retarded" was just talking out of a lack of true knowledge of the breed. There is quite a bit of prejudice out there regarding the chow, and unfortunately veterinarians are not immune to that. Any dog can grow up to be dangerous. Breeds such as the chow do need proper handling as young dogs in order to be social animals.
I do hope you find a dog that fits with your life. My dogs are great companions and, since I also work from my home and spend a great deal of time at the computer, my dogs have learned to live quietly and don't pester me at all. I have five dogs total - two are shepherds. If I'm at the computer working, they are sprawled on the floor behind me. They're also very glad to get out for walks anytime I'm willing! It's more a matter of training than a matter of breed, that makes a dog work into a person's lifestyle.
Duke of Earl - please PLEASE tell me that you don't seriously believe the statements you've made in this thread? If you are a writer, perhaps it's time to do an indepth article on genetics, or behavior traits based on color/texture of coat in dogs, or even on the number of mixed breed dogs that are produced daily and killed daily because there aren't enough good homes available. And perhaps, in your research, you will realize that your thoughts on breeding for a chow/whippet cross are a tad bit ludicrous.
First of all - what truly would be the point of deliberately taking a chow and breeding it to a whippet? What if you got all the "bad" traits and none of what you thought you'd get? What would you do with all the other puppies - maybe you'd have a litter of eight awkward little dogs that are most likely going to end up dead because you can't find homes for them. If you want a dog that has more coat than a whippet but less than a chow; is laid back and quiet in the house; handles cold weather okay; and has more angulation than a chow in the hind legs - well, darn, I'm sure the shelters are already FULL of mixed breeds that would fit just fine with your life. Why produce more dogs that aren't needed, just to fulfill a passing thought you have that this mix would be perfect for YOU?
On the thought of the black smooth chow: temperament, intelligence and ability have zero to do with the color or texture of the coat. Anyone that has told you so is sadly mistaken. There are lines of dogs in any breed that tend to be more easily trained or athletic, but that's not due to color of coat. I currently have three chows. The oldest one, a cinnamon, has been the top chow in the U.S. two years in obedience, and holds 10 performance titles. The middle chow is a black one, who I have coaxed through agility courses to get her novice titles. She's the only dog I have that I can't trust off-leash in the yard. My youngest chow is a red, and she is bright and is working in freestyle, obedience, flyball and will be starting agility soon. She's only ten months old but I take her off-leash out in the yard without any problems. You just can't judge a dog on the color of its coat.
Now, to answer your initial question .. *L* .. there are characteristics in the chow breed that can make cross-breeding tricky. Just because a dog is only half chow doesn't mean it won't necessarily retain all the chow traits. Chows can be extremely independent, smart to the point of controlling their owners, aggressive without proper handling and socialization, and territorial. If you're not willing to spend time socializing and training, then I don't recommend any dog to you. Living alone is no excuse! In fact, if you live alone then you really need to make an effort to get your dog out especially when young. Dogs of any breed need socializing young, but especially independent breeds like chows (and mixes).
However, that being said (and yes, I know I'm "wordy" .. *chuckles*) .. the vet who said that chow mixes would be "mentally retarded" was just talking out of a lack of true knowledge of the breed. There is quite a bit of prejudice out there regarding the chow, and unfortunately veterinarians are not immune to that. Any dog can grow up to be dangerous. Breeds such as the chow do need proper handling as young dogs in order to be social animals.
I do hope you find a dog that fits with your life. My dogs are great companions and, since I also work from my home and spend a great deal of time at the computer, my dogs have learned to live quietly and don't pester me at all. I have five dogs total - two are shepherds. If I'm at the computer working, they are sprawled on the floor behind me. They're also very glad to get out for walks anytime I'm willing! It's more a matter of training than a matter of breed, that makes a dog work into a person's lifestyle.
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Duke of Earl
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IliamnasQuest
Now now .. easy boy .. *pats your head*Duke of Earl wrote:I give up.
Maybe I should just buy a stuffed dog in a glass case.
Or is someone here going to start an argument about that too?
JUST KIDDING!!
You did ask if you should reconsider your plans in your initial post. When you ask for opinions, you're not always going to get ones you like.
I hope you do find a dog that will suit your lifestyle. Since you're not against mixes, I'd really encourage you to take a look at the dogs at your local animal shelter. If you want a chow mix, you can find hundreds of them in rescue organizations online. You might be able to offer the perfect home to a dog out there who would love you unconditionally, wait patiently for you while you're working, and happily accompany you on walks.
People who rescue dogs have a special place in heaven, you know ... your halo is waiting ..
