Bil-Jac Dog Food

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Fri Nov 03, 2006 11:54 pm

I was up at my local chow breeder's place last week. She's hoping for puppies to be born around Xmas. The last two she bred didn't take, so cross your fingers for me.

Anways, she feeds her dogs Bil-Jac, and that is what she recommends. I had never heard of this brand but was thinking of going with Solid Gold. That's what I feed my cats (I know chows aren't cats), and I've had really good results. She thinks Solid Gold is fine but its more expensive and not necessarily better.

I know a lot of you feed Nutro (which she doesn't recommend), but have any of you used Bil-Jac and what did you think of it?
http://www.biljac.com/

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:16 am

The never ending food search on here cracks me up, I think the question should be who has the oldest chows on here and what have you been feeding them and who has the oldest Chows on here that have never been to a Vet for any reason except yearly routine Vet care, broken bones and dog attacks don't count.

When it comes to food I would be one of the first to change Pekoe's diet off of Nutro if I thought or ever heard there was anything wrong with it, Your breeder doesn't recommend Nutro but Pekoe's good Vet in SF recommended Nutro even though like most Vets his office sells Science diet, Pekoe's Oncologist recommends Nutro and feeds her dogs Nutro, all the specialist at the hospitol, (Doctors not vets they do humans) that I ask also recommend and feed their dogs Nutro. Non of these people are making a dime off thier recommendations So I would think they would know more about Nutrition then a breeder would. I know some breeders sell and recommend Iams.

Pekoe will be 11 in February she has been eating Nutro for the nine years I have had her and has never been to the Vet for anything except a dog attack and yearly physicals, she did get cancer at 10 but her type of cancer, Oral Melanoma doesn't come from food that anyone knows and at 10 going on 11 had the strength to go through all the radiation treatments and medication for almost a year and so far is beating the odds, she was supposed to be dead 6 months ago per her Vets, Pekoes Oncologist said Pekoe is very lucky to have come through this and its all due to her health, to me that means diet. Even with all she has been through she is still out everyday chasing cats and rabbits at full speed and never tires out, I have to drag her home from walks. Her Vet and Oncologist both said she is extremely healthy for her age and that I must have taken exceptional care of her, I havn't done anything except 3 cups of Nutro aday and an occasional treat, no supplements, no fish oils, nothing but Nutro. I have never read the ingredients in Nutro all I know is its doing its job and I've never had a problem. When and if I ever get another Chow I do know it will eat Nutro and never get yearly vaccinations except maybe Rabbis.

If its Human Grade food that everyone is looking for just drive your Chows through MacDonald's everyday or better yet you can buy 10 Banquet fried chicken dinners for $10.00 from Ralph's, your Chows will love them I know I do I eat those things all the time.

Actually it doesn't matter to me what anyone feeds their Chows I'm just trying to get a free bag of Nutro so if a Nutro Rep is reading this make that Nutro Ultra Senior, maybe throw in a Couple of Nurto Desserts also.

This has been a non-paid commercial advertisement

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 1:51 am

To answer your quetion about Bil-jac, I found this on another Forum;

bil-jac

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

does any one know if bil-jac is a good dog food i have heard it is and it's not and if it is not a good dog food then what other dog food are good.

No, it's not a good food, it has too many by-products (a by-product is the first ingredient, ugh!) and grains and fillers (corn isn't digestable)

Good foods are:
Nutro Ultra (found at Petsmart and Petco)
California Natural
Blue Buffalo (found at Petsmart, I think)
Innova
Innova EVO
Nature's Variety Prairie
Wellness
Merrick
Canidae
Flint River Ranch
Chicken Soup For The Pet Lover's Soul
Natural Balance
Solid Gold
Timberwolf Organics

it's not a good food. on top of what folks have mentioned it has BHA as a preservative which has been shown to cause cancer.

something to keep in mind about organ meat (stealing this from Mordanna's site)
Quote:
organ meat is very rich in nutrients, which can lead to toxicity if the dog eats too much of it - for example vitamin A and D. in addition to that, organs like liver and kidney filter toxins from the body and may retain a considerable amount of contaminants, especially if the animals were raised in a "factory farm" setting, which traditionally goes hand in hand with eating poor quality feed and being exposed to drugs.

There was more bad opinions but whats here should answer the question.

Sojourner11 · Post by **Sojourner11** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:55 am

Jeff&Peks wrote:To answer your quetion about Bil-jac, I found this on another Forum;

bil-jac

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

does any one know if bil-jac is a good dog food i have heard it is and it's not and if it is not a good dog food then what other dog food are good.

No, it's not a good food, it has too many by-products (a by-product is the first ingredient, ugh!) and grains and fillers (corn isn't digestable)

Good foods are:
Nutro Ultra (found at Petsmart and Petco)
California Natural
Blue Buffalo (found at Petsmart, I think)
Innova
Innova EVO
Nature's Variety Prairie
Wellness
Merrick
Canidae
Flint River Ranch
Chicken Soup For The Pet Lover's Soul
Natural Balance
Solid Gold
Timberwolf Organics

it's not a good food. on top of what folks have mentioned it has BHA as a preservative which has been shown to cause cancer.

something to keep in mind about organ meat (stealing this from Mordanna's site)
Quote:
organ meat is very rich in nutrients, which can lead to toxicity if the dog eats too much of it - for example vitamin A and D. in addition to that, organs like liver and kidney filter toxins from the body and may retain a considerable amount of contaminants, especially if the animals were raised in a "factory farm" setting, which traditionally goes hand in hand with eating poor quality feed and being exposed to drugs.

There was more bad opinions but whats here should answer the question.

No Eagle Pack huh? My local pet store carries Nutro and I was thinking of switching to it based only on the testimony of so many here. When Marshall stopped eating whatever I was feeding him at the time(grocery store top shelf, Purina One probably and some wet, probably Pedigree) I became very concerned and tried everything else that Publix had. I was afraid of another Pro-plan incident(tell yall later) so the pet store brands always scared me. Eventually I had to add bacon bits and cheese to get him interested in anything and his health was failing.

Then back in March I took him on a trip with me and there happened to be a mom and pop type pet store across from the hotel. I went in looking for a glucosamine supplement and struck up a conversation with the owner. I gave him a quick overview of Marshall and his situation and we talked about what I was feeding him. He gave me a dog nutrition 101 and man I was shocked at what they could put in dog food. So he recommended one of two holistic dogs foods he carried, Eagle pack and another one (cant remember name). He said he mixed up a small amt of the canned typed with water to make a gravy, then mixed it in with the dry. I went back to my hotel room and mixed it up just the way he said and fed it up to the Boy. He went right thru it and perked up immediately. So I made up some more and he gobbled it right up. Bingo! So I picked up two cases of the Holistic Chicken canned, and a bag of the Lamb and Rice with Oatmeal dry. And from then on thats what he ate, never growing tired of it.

I had some trouble finding it in Atl, having to refer to to EP website for dealers and found a kennel in Buckhead that would order it for me. I soon found a pet store a little farther away that stocked it, but since the owner was so nice to Marshall when I took him by there I decided to give her the business rather than a nameless pet store. The price difference would have been offset by the extra distance to travel to get it anyway.

But since Nutro seems to be the one Brand named over and over, plus since it is available right down the street I have considered switching.

IliamnasQuest · Post by **IliamnasQuest** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 5:31 am

I haven't used Bil-Jac as a food, but have used Bil-Jac treats at times. My dogs aren't tremendously fond of them. I know that Bil-Jac was very popular years back but doesn't seem to carry the same popularity these days.

A quick search shows Bil-Jac Select dog food to contain the following ingredients:

Fresh Chicken By-Products (Organ Meat Only), Fresh Chicken, Corn, Chicken By-Product Meal, Dried Beet Pulp (sugar removed), Fresh Chicken Liver, Brewers Dried Yeast, Cane Molasses, Eggs, Salt, Sodium Propionate (a preservative), DL-Methionine, L-Lysine, Vitamin A Acetate, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement, Niacin, Biotin, Choline Chloride, Folic Acid, Thiamine Mononitrate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride, Ascorbic Acid, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Menaione, sodium Bisulfate Complex, (source of Vitamin K), D-Calcium Pantothenate, Manganous Oxide, Inositol, BHA (a preservative), Iron Sulfate, Copper Sulfate, Zinc Oxide, Cobalt Carbonate, Potassium Iodine, Sodium Selenite.

I tend to avoid foods that use a lot of by-products (which can be a large variety of left-over "parts") and preservatives such as BHA (a known carcinogen).

Nutro Natural Lamb and Rice has these ingredients:

Lamb Meal, Ground Rice, Rice Flour, Rice Bran, Soybean Oil, Sunflower Oil (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Poultry Fat (preserved with mixed Tocopherols, a source of natural Vitamin E), Natural Flavors, Rice Gluten, Dried Egg Product, Dried Beet Pulp, Potassium Chloride, L-Lysine, Dried Kelp (source of Iodine), Salt, Choline Chloride, Zinc Sulfate, Vitamin E Supplement, Taurine, Ferrous Sulfate, Ascorbic Acid (source of Vitamin C), Biotin, Copper Proteinate, Niacin, Manganous Oxide, Calcium Pantothenate, Vitamin B12 Supplement, Riboflavin Supplement (source of Vitamin B2), Vitamin A Supplement, Glucosamine Hydrochloride, Chondroitin Sulfate, Pyridoxine Hydrochloride (source of Vitamin B6), Thiamine Mononitrate (source of Vitamin B1), Vitamin D3 Supplement, Menadione Sodium Bisulfite Complex (source of Vitamin K activity), Calcium Iodate, Folic Acid.

The problem with this food is that it's primarily rice. Lamb meal (not lamb MEAT) is listed first, but then it's followed by a total of four categories of rice. This is a common ploy of manufacturers to make it look like the meat type ingredient is the biggest part, when in all actuality it isn't (ingredients listed should be in order of quantity - by breaking down the various parts of the rice they can make it so lamb meal is first).

Nutro Natural is an okay food, but definitely not top of the line. I do feed it because I can find it here easily and it's better than grocery store brands. But my dogs do better when I include raw foods. They do BEST on a fully raw diet, but I can't seem to manage that.

I've actually started using an Honest Kitchen food that I mix with raw meat. I fed "Verve" this last time but am looking to switch to "Force". Verve has some grains (oats, barley, rye) while Force is grain-free. Here are the ingredients in Verve:

100% human grade Organic Rolled Rye, Organic Rolled Barley, USDA Beef, Organic Flaxseed, Organic Rolled Oats, Carrots, Alfalfa, Potatoes, Eggs, Red and Green Bell Peppers, Spinach, Apples, Cranberries, Chicory, Parsley, Rosemary, Peppermint and Vitamins and Minerals: Tricalcium Phosphate, Choline Chloride, Vitamin D3 Supplement, Vitamin E Supplement, Iron Amino Acid Chelate, Zinc Amino Acid Chelate, Potassium Iodide, Potassium Chloride, Copper Amino Acid Chelate

Now the shocker - it costs roughly $50 for a ten pound bucket. It's dehydrated and reconstitutes to about 20 pounds. I mix it at about a 1:1.25 ratio of Verve/meat. This is fed as one meal a day, Nutro as the other meal at this point. I feed four dogs (three chows and a shepherd) so yes, it gets expensive. But it's worth it to feed the dogs well, especially as they age. If feeding this gives Kylee another year or two then it's well worth it. I saw a tremendous change in my old shepherd when I started feeding raw back in 1998 - he was able to get off of rimadyl and live another year and a half in spite of having elbow dysplasia, degenerative myelopathy and a torn cruciate.

The Honest Kitchen foods can be fed without the added meat, but the dogs really like the meat and I like adding in the extra protein. With all the other ingredients included and ready to go, I don't have to do much except soak it in some water. I also add fish oil, calcium (because I'm feeding extra meat), and vitamin C.

Khana is VERY SHINY on this food - her white hair shimmers. I've never seen white fur so shiny on a dog before.

Melanie and the gang of spoiled rotten mutts in Alaska

Sojourner11 · Post by **Sojourner11** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:06 am

Seems like that pet store owner told me there was a diference between like say " chicken meal" and "chicken" or "chicken by products"

One being real healthy chicken, and the other could be dead birds or birds that had just died not actually processed for dog food, diseased and other wise.

Beef and lamb could be cancerous udders and such, I dont remember which was which, but it was nasty still. Maybe it was the shock factor but it worked, I bought the food he was selling. But he gave me a guarantee that if he didnt like it he'd take it back. I told him I didnt care what it cost, if it was good for him and he ate it I'd buy it.

Post by **jerryo** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 7:28 am

Hey, Jeff

I may have just found you that free bag of Nitro you were looking for. When I bought some Nutro at TSC, the cashier asked if I had a "Nutro Card". They have a deal where you get a free bag after you buy ten bags. I'm not sure how many people know about it, or if it's something new. I had never heard of it before.

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 9:26 am

Okay, I'm convinced. I'm going with my original plan which is use Solid Gold. Jeff, thanks for the cross posting; I know Pekoe is the epitomy of health. My breeder's dogs also live long, 12-15 years, but she admitted to some issues when they got to be that age. I think people use and recommend what has worked well for them. Me included. But sometimes something new will come along, and I'm open to the new and better if it is actually better.

Melanie, I was wondering what you fed your dogs particularly given Kylee's age. Now I know.

Sylvia

Post by **Auddymay** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 10:34 am

Mine are on Nutro Lamb and Rice, and they don't wolf it down by any means. I am thinking of getting some canned to mix in a bit, I feel Lily is just too skinny. I have to take her in for her rabies booster, and will consult the vet. The problem is, whenever I mix anything into the food, they remove half of it to get to the good stuff! They usually deposit the extras at the back door, or in front of the tv.

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 2:24 pm

Sojourner11, there was another list of Foods they had labeled as Clean foods I meant to post it but lost connection, they were called Clean foods because they are the top of the line all natural no nothings just pure dog food, Engle pak may have been on that list. None of the foods that I crossed post were on the clean food list not even Nutro, there was only like 5 foods listed. I think the list I posted is considered the upper premium foods but not the best of the best.

Jerry I have the card but I'm usually to lazy or in a hurry to show the card so no free stuff yet. I've moved so much that I'm sure the new occupants got a free bag, Oh look Harold someone sent us a bag of dog food.

IliamnasQuest · Post by **IliamnasQuest** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 3:58 pm

I forgot to look up Solid Gold.

Here's the ingredients in their Adult Lamb dog food:

Lamb | Lamb Meal | Millet | Brown Rice | Cracked Pearled Barley | Oatmeal | Rice Bran | Menhaden Fish Meal | Canola Oil | Flax Meal | Amaranth | Blueberries | Dried Chicory Root | Carotene | Choline Chloride | Vitamin E Supplement | Iron Proteinate | Zinc Proteinate | Yucca Schidigera Extract | Copper Proteinate | Manganese Proteinate | Potassium Iodide | Thiamine Mononitrate | Ascorbic Acid | Vitamin A Supplement | Biotin | Calcium Panthothenate | Sodium Selenite | Pyridoxine Hydrochloride | Vitamin B12 Supplement | Riboflavin | Vitamin D Supplement | Folic Acid |

I would definitely say that it's better than Bil-Jac.

You know, results vary from dog to dog. I've known people who fed Solid Gold and had problems with diarrhea .. I've know people who fed Gravy Train and had apparently healthy dogs. I think that we each need to feed what works for our own animals, but that your chances of a healthy long-lived dog are greater if you feed a food with little or no artificial colors, flavors and preservatives and one with a good solid meat source (not meal or by-products).

The reality is that our dogs would be better off if we avoided all foods that used animal by-products, animal meals, high levels of grains or corn, and anything "artificial". They would do best if we avoided foods that have been highly processed too. Kibble tends to be heated at a high level and then extruded into pieces. This heating destroys nutrients. But feeding a raw diet or a modified (lightly cooked) diet is time consuming and most people won't bother to do it. I know I find kibble easier to feed.

Some handy links:

Dog Food Comparisons: http://www.doberdogs.com/menu.html
Description of Meat Meal: http://www.fao.org/ag/AGA/agap/frg/AFRIS/Data/316.HTM
What's Really in Pet Foods: http://www.api4animals.org/facts.php?p=359&more=1
More info on Meal and By-Products: http://www.api4animals.org/articles?p=361&more=1

Melanie and the gang

Sylvia · Post by **Sylvia** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:03 pm

Thanks for the links, Melanie, I'll take a look at them.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 4:57 pm

When I got Koda... he had been weaned on Purina One Lamb and Rice and that's what I kept him on. He was (and still is) a healthy boy... but his eyes watered something awful (entropion) and he scratched and shedded something awful for a puppy. After coming here and asking for help, I switched Koda over to Nutro Lamb and Rice. Within 2 weeks he was a different chow. He had quit scratching and his right eye cleared completely and altho we still had trouble with the left eye, it eventually got better also. We still have trouble with his eyes tearing from time to time, depending on what he has had to eat (snack wise or what he has had sneaked to him), but for the most part, I agree with Jeff... the Nutro has been great for Koda. Molly has been on Nutro ever since I brought her home from the breeders. No scratching, shedding, or entropion. I would like to find something that would help Koda's tearing in his eyes altogether as I think the entropion is allergy related. But if they had nothing but Nutro, I think they would both do well and stay healthy on it and I don't have any guilt feeding it to them. Both Molly and Koda have thrived on it.

Post by **kingalls** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:04 pm

My two were on Nutro and I think they were doing fine with it but I also include baked chicken in their diet. Mr. N use to have issues with ear infections. The changes I have made was to first start adding Omega-3 to their food via capsules and then I slowly migrated them to Solid Gold. Yes, they had some diarehea (sp?) at first and I was borderline in making the complete switch but ultimately stuck with SG. So they are on SG for both canned and dry food. Price-wise, I only see a difference in the canned food. I have paid as much as $1.19 per can for Nutro and with SG, I'm paying about $1.35. I split one can between the two every morning but I also add chicken, Omega-3, and brown rice a couple times a week.
My reason for switch to SG is personal. Many, many Chows on this site are on Nutro and doing just fine. A few have tried SG and were not happy with it and stayed with Nutro.
You need to understand what ingredients are good or not good and make your decision.

chowfrnd88 · Post by **chowfrnd88** » Sat Nov 04, 2006 6:29 pm

When I first joined the site, I was feeding Iams, but luckily that only lasted one bags worth!

We have fed Special Dark Solid Gold Wolf King Salmon and Bison since then. Based on my large sample size of two

, I can say I love solid gold. I have certainly seen many improvements in Special's coat, he has no more yeasty deposits near his eyes and mouth, etc. He also had no diarhea at all when we switched him.