Need help with my 7 month old Chow

Theodoresmom · Post by **Theodoresmom** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:32 am

Hi everyone. I am new to the chat and I need alittle advise. My male chow Theodore is 7 months old and he is a very good boy most of the time. He has moments when he has alittle extra energy that he becomes very defiant. I know that is expected from a puppy but when I tell him no he puts his whole mouth on my arm......he doesn't bite just puts my arm in his mouth or nips and runs and becomes more defiant the more I say no. He usually calms down after a few minutes of this behavior. I just continue to tell him no until he gives up or I do. I know he wants to play which is fine but the mouthing part is what bothers me. Is there something I can do when he does this? Any help out there?

Jess04920 · Post by **Jess04920** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 6:46 am

First of all, welcome to the site!

I had this problem with my both of my boys when they were young pups. It is a dominance thing and what worked for me is discontinuing any activity I have going with them the minute they mouth me. For example, if we're playing and one of them would mouth me, I would get up and walk away from them and ignore them for a few minutes. It only took a few tries to break the habit. It's a pretty good "punishment" because the last thing puppies want is for you to ignore them. Another suggestion is to say a loud "OUCH" each time this happens...for some pups it will help discontinue the behavior.

I've found that both have mine have grown out of it and it was a fairly easy behavior to break. Good luck with little Theodore and we'd love to see some pictures of your little one!

Theodoresmom · Post by **Theodoresmom** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 7:11 am

Thanks Jess......I do try to do that when he is playing but sometimes he does it when he is trying to do something he shouldn't be and I am telling him no. Thank you for your advice. I will post some pics when I figure out how

TXSusiQ · Post by **TXSusiQ** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:01 am

I'm having the same issues with Cabo and I'm working on the ignore thing - he hates it

Yoshimom · Post by **Yoshimom** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 8:28 am

Same mouthing issue here with Sumo. He's just 11 weeks old, and I guess it's a phase they go through. He only does it to the humans -- he doesn't do it at all with our 9 year old Chow girl. She growls at him when he gets too rough, and he stops.

The strict "NO" and the "OUCH" aren't working. I'm trying the ignoring along with the verbal. Maybe I should try growling like Keiko does

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 9:10 am

One of the reasons I've found that a sharply spoken 'no' may not work, especially for women is that our voices are naturally high pitched, when we're excited or annoyed they often raise in pitch, to a dog a high pitch sound is an invitation for play to continue not stop.

I'm a high soprano, so my voice is also fairly high, but I've learned to lower it a couple of octaves when I say 'no' to my chows, and instead of saying the word as sharply as possible I draw it out a bit, so 'noo' not 'no!' Sometimes I'll even say, "I. Said. Noo." (though I don't have to do this one often) In fact sometimes all I have to do is begin to voice the 'n' sound and I get instant attention and focus.

The other thing is to never, ever, give a chow an order and then let him/her not obey it. Every order is to be obeyed, maybe not instantly, (they are chows) but it is to be obeyed. This means that you have to consider each one, do you have the time, patience or do you feel like backing it up right now? If the answer is no, don't give the order. But if you do give an order be prepared to make it stick. And be prepared to escalate it if necessary, what I mean by this is that sometimes just stopping one behavior isn't enough, you have to stop the unwanted behavior and then ask for a wanted one.

Sometimes during our walks Firesong gets so busy trying to chase squirrels that she is pulling badly. I first try 'easy' and if she ignores that, then we stop, then she has to 'heel' 'close' then 'sit' and then I have a command 'to me' it means that she (and Darkwind) have to look at me. She must sit there quietly looking at me for 1-2 minutes before we continue our walk, if she moves or breaks the sit, we continue until she is focused on me again, not everything else in the world, then when we walk again she must walk at a heel for a bit, (we may even finish the walk that way)

And yes I did the same with Darkwind, but he was better trained to be on a leash.

For mouthing, it would be 'noo' and then go lay down, (dogs should have a time out spot), and then I go about my business for 10-20 minutes, ignoring them. After that time I call them to me for nice petting, then I say, "okay, now go play" then I go about my business again. I don't go back to what we were doing before.

Having a chow is a lot like having a child, there are a lot of things you can do with a chow that is much like dealing with a toddler. One of the most important things to remember is that YOU set the rules, YOU MUST enforce those rules.

Between 6months and 1 year everydog will start testing you, this is when you have to be firmer, nothing has changed you are still the one in charge.

Also remember the other subtle ways of establishing domininace, you never walk around them, they must get up and move. You enter or exit rooms and the house first. Their heads are never above your, so no time on the bed or couch or anywhere they can end up looking down on you.

oochiebabe · Post by **oochiebabe** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 11:43 am

maybe you can buy him an edible bone so he can chew on it rather than put your arm in his mouth..maybe he's teething...

LEO's mum · Post by **LEO's mum** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 2:25 pm

Theodore's mom, welcome to the board!
My baby Leonora(10m/s old) has a similar problem. The bad news for us is that she throws tantrums outside when on walks. She also nips at me after she's spent a bundle, sort of run around in excitement & nips. We are hand feeding her on walks on obeyed commands to show her who's in charge.

If you are experiencing nipping inside the house, it will be easier as it is in a controlled environment. I was told by the puppy class tutor to say NO in either a very high pitch or very low pitch voice. Some dogs respond better to high pitch and vice versa. Also time-outs, ignore the dog for at least 3mins. It would be easier if the dog would down stay or sit looking at the wall on command. If not contain her in her sin bin, if you use a pen, great, or even a crate. I didn't and had to escape from her by hiding in a closet or in the loo....

Now, having told you all this, I am still FARRR from having a civilized dog. I wish you all the best and please update us on your endeavours.

Love, LEO(Leonora) & mum

Yvonne · Post by **Yvonne** » Thu Aug 24, 2006 5:03 pm

I'd try ignoring him as much as possible. They hate that.
Might not always be feasible, if he's doing something wrong.
And direct force doesn't work with a chow.

It's just like having a young child. You can't force a child to do anything, but you can get them to decide it is in their best interest to respond to your influences.

Best of luck! Let us know how it's going.

Post by **chris** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:57 am

Same here with Steel.

Your right Victory... every time I say NO! he whips his head back and bounces around and doesn't stop. Like you said, to him, I am initiating more play, even with the "ouch". So, as instructed by others on this site, I am doing the walk away and ignore... it's working.

Welcome to the site.

Yoshimom · Post by **Yoshimom** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 9:23 am

Okay, I'm trying the walk away and ignore. But what do you do when he's following you as you walk away, trying to bite on your pants leg and your ankles ??

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 10:07 am

Yoshimom wrote:Okay, I'm trying the walk away and ignore. But what do you do when he's following you as you walk away, trying to bite on your pants leg and your ankles ??

Then you need to do the time out. If he's nipping he's still trying to run the show, I'd round on him, stand straight and tall and order him to sit, then stay, repeat until you are obeyed, then leave.

Another thing you should try is randomly throughout the day giving him the sit command and then reward him. You have to place in his brain and automatic response to the command so that when he's riled up, when he hears "sit" he is disengaged from the excitment and goes into a listening mode.

It takes time to break a habit, and he's in the habit of controlling now, you have to work with him to break it.

Post by **chris** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 12:00 pm

Yeap.. what Victory said.. cus...Steel did that too... LOL..

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:10 pm

Re: "But what do you do when he's following you as you walk away, trying to bite on your pants leg and your ankles ??"

Mouthy biting play is a large part of young puppy development, and your older dog might not be much of the kind of playmate a pup needs to blow off that bitey energy. Pups who have other pups as playmates don't bite-pounce humans as much. Teaching bite inhibition at this stage *is* important, but so is giving the pup an outlet for all that bitey energy. Try things like allowing the pup to shred a pile of newspapers, or hide treats inside folded cardboard rolls, paper cups, or paper bags, which he can shred after running to retrieve them. Besides chewy toys, give him new and interesting things like broth ice cubes, frozen rope toys, etc.

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 1:43 pm

kiwani wrote:Re: "But what do you do when he's following you as you walk away, trying to bite on your pants leg and your ankles ??"

Mouthy biting play is a large part of young puppy development, and your older dog might not be much of the kind of playmate a pup needs to blow off that bitey energy. Pups who have other pups as playmates don't bite-pounce humans as much. Teaching bite inhibition at this stage *is* important, but so is giving the pup an outlet for all that bitey energy. Try things like allowing the pup to shred a pile of newspapers, or hide treats inside folded cardboard rolls, paper cups, or paper bags, which he can shred after running to retrieve them. Besides chewy toys, give him new and interesting things like broth ice cubes, frozen rope toys, etc.

Yep. What Kiwani says too. They have to work off that energy too. I used paper towel cardboard things, also plastic water bottles, don't let them eat them, just squish them, the bottles make a awful squeak noise when a dog mouths them. If you don't want them to get any plastic in their mouths because of the chemicals in the plastic, petsmart has some toys that are plastic bottles covered with soft fabric, Firesong and Darkwind loved theirs. I'm trying to figure out how to open the fabric and replace the bottles.

There is a stage of growth where a dog has to pretend the big, bad killer, and they do need something safe to "kill"

Post by **Auddymay** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 2:29 pm

One of Lily's favorite "chew toys' when she was a teething chowling, was an empty plastic pop bottle (cap on). She loved the crinkly sound it made, and gave just enough resistance to relieve teething irritation. when she put a few good sized punctures in it (before pieces of plastic become a hazard), I took it away.

Yoshimom · Post by **Yoshimom** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:28 pm

Thanks so much, y'all! Sumo and I have our homework assignment for the weekend. We'll work diligently on the sit stay. Despite all of his chew toys, he's right now tearing into a cardboard paper towel roll instead of my poor ankles. What great ideas!

Yvonne · Post by **Yvonne** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 5:37 pm

Just like a kid. Buy them a $50 toy and they will play with the box!!!

LuLu33 · Post by **LuLu33** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:00 pm

Gotta love them chow pups...boy i've had that problem and now with the new chowboy we're going thru it again. I absolutely know what you mean that when you raise your voice or say no or ouch they flip their head back and keep it up and chase after you. the ignore works pretty well but for the real stubborn ones (which I had and was training for show ring) they taught us in advanced obedience class to (standing up) cup your hand and touch the side of the pups neck with a little pressure and say uh-ah. I'm not one for ever putting my hands on a chow. I don't believe in hitting or water squirting or link collars as some do but I have to say that this worked and the reason made sense so I tried it and it's worked beautifully. The issue is a dominance one and that cuping of the hand and pressing near the neck is a pack action (like the alpha biting the pup) it doesn't have to hurt him but put him in his place, gets his attention and in a dog's mind that's their "NO". I don't know if it will work for you but I love all the different suggestions I've received on this board and it's worth a try.
I train very much like Victory. I am the boss and that's that. When he's not doing things my way, I walk away. He doesn't walk in the house before me and he obeys his commands. Once you can get your pup in that calm subbmissive state you can train him. When he's nuts you first have to get his attention (either the ignore of the pack method I learned) and start over, otherwise it's too frustrating for both of you. Don't know if this is any help. Good Luck!

Bailey

Moses

redangie24 · Post by **redangie24** » Fri Aug 25, 2006 7:08 pm

Love all the advice on here except I would not use the crate or carrier as a punishment. That is thier personal space and really should not be seen as a negative spot. I would use a bathroom or other small space. Once you get your basics a sit should do, but until then you may have to pick him up (away from your body if possible to not let him get the reward of being close to you) or put on a leash really quick and run him to a seperate room w/o toys or other fun distractions. After you give your punishment words (no, stop, whichever) do not give him any eye contact or look directly at him. Other than that everyone else gave ya all the advice you could ever need for this problem.

Theodoresmom · Post by **Theodoresmom** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 6:38 am

Thank you everyone for all the great advice! This is a wonderful place to go for help. I will try the ignore thing but sometimes I can't do that if he is getting into something and I need him to stop. No works sometimes when he is not in that frenzied mode. But I understand what you mean about him thinking I am playing with him. He will just go on and on fighting with me. If I just walk away does he think he wins?

chowfrnd88 · Post by **chowfrnd88** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:15 am

Hmmm... always kind of tough depending on the situation. Typically if he's trying to get your attention turning your back to him and/or walking away will mean you "win." His tantrums don't end up having the effect that he wants. Only is he ends up getting his way then he wins. It gets to be harder when you really need them to get away from something. The advice we were given was to just try your best to avoid those things (I know, waaaay easier said than done!), in our case it was not letting him get near bones and things on the street. Also, practicing leave it and drop it will REALLY come in handy.

Special Dark is our ~2 year old chow love bug. We just saw a veterinary behaviorist with him because he nipped and bit us when we tried to remove a bone from his mouth. While our pup is older than Sumo, one of teh most important things I got from our behaviorist was that sometimes saying no in the usual scolding tone is not the best thing. She told us that for some dogs it can actually escalate the situation in the heat of the moment. So the advice the others have given you is really great.

Also, I'm not sure if this applies to your situation, but I find that inside the house when Special goes for something he's not suppossed to have it's usuall to get our attention. In the beginning I'd try to get it away but then again, it becomes even more of a game. I began ignoring him and he lost interest immediately!! Obviously, this was with non-dangerous items like socks and stuffed animals and things!

Good luck and keep us posted!

rockykenamiko · Post by **rockykenamiko** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 7:16 am

if u have a chow pup that is mouthing u in anyway this is unacceptable! chows are by nature a dominant breed and want to run things. When this happens you need to immediately stop playing with him and roll him over onto his back, this is a tactic that happens in the canine world to display dominance. roll him on his back and make him stay there until he stops squirming. Another way would be to keep a choke collar on him and to snap it with a firm no, and not to play with him whine he shows this behavior

redangie24 · Post by **redangie24** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 10:37 am

Please do not use a choke collar on your chow. Please Please Please don't.

Yvonne · Post by **Yvonne** » Sat Aug 26, 2006 11:07 am

I have raised 7 chows and I disagree with the choke collar and also with rolling him over on his back.

Forced dominance (either from the human or the chow) is not the way to create a lifelong relationship of trust.

The human has to be the boss, but you have to go about it in a way that respects the chow.

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Need help with my 7 month old Chow

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correcting mouthing behavior in the 7 month old