Hello Group....New Member

[ChowChowProud]

I'm new to the group. I've got a 3 year old Chocolate Chow who owns me!
I stay in Atlanta GA and I've been looking forever for a mate to breed her with, I'm not sure
If I'm in the right place but is there anyone out there that can lead me in the right direction?

[Auddymay]

Welcome to the group. What I am going to say now is not meant to insult, but to educate. Please take my words with good will.

There is no color distinction of chocolate in Chows. There is black, blue, red, cinnamon, and cream. I thought my first cream was 'champagne' but with education, learned I was mistaken. A photo may help, but some blacks look rusty and more brown than truly black.

Please, please, have your Chow spayed. Indiscriminate breeding has lead to many problems in the breed. Both parents should have a series of tests done and both need to pass at certain levels before breeding. These tests include, hips, elbows and eyes, and there are also a few more I cannot immediately recall. Very expensive, and truly, should be done by professional breeders- and I don't include puppy mills nor backyard breeders in the category of professionals. I am certain your girl is sweet and cute, but she is probably not a good candidate for a breeding program. Neither of mine are, either.

My Dillon came from a puppy mill in Georgia as a rescue. The background story is quite horrific. He is a handsome fellow, but not a good stud candidate. Yet, that was to be his fate, had he not been seized by authorities. My Lily is cute as a button, but she is undersized at 34 pounds, and even with socializing, she can be a bit aggressive with other dogs and is mostly unaccepting of other people, though she does make exceptions. Also she developed major skin issues at the age of 5 that may have genetic components...not traits that should be passed on.

[ChowChowProud]

...thanks for the advice. She's been thoroughly tested for hip, eye, elbow and kidney problems and she has passed with flying colors.I recently moved from Orlando FL to Atlanta GA to eliminate any chances of inbreeding (that's how serious I am about breeding her and improving the breed).

image.jpg (120.08 KiB) Viewed 6035 times

[Victory]

I'll add to what AuddyMay said. No dog, no matter the breed, should be bred unless the breeding pair, their parents, grandparents and if possible great-great grandparents have/are tested for health scores. Hip and elbow dyplasia are rampant in chows, leading to many surgeries to try and correct the problems. Bad knees, heart issues, some cancers, thyroid problems, entroprian. These are all health issues that chows are prone to.

Your girl may be the sweetest chow on the planet, but unless you have the way and means to provide extensive background health checks, she should not be bred. Most chows who are used correctly for breeding not only have the health checks but have also been shown and achieved some ranking prior to being bred.

The other thing to consider is if all the above has been done and it is determined that she is good for breeding; are you prepared for the cost? Breeding is expensive in itself, there is the stud fee, vet care, more food for the pregnant/nursing mom. If she runs into trouble during whelping, you could face the need for emergency surgery. And even a healthy chow can face heart problems during the stress of giving birth, even if you do everything right, you could lose her. My Firesong is a beautiful chow girl, but she's a bit small, only about 45lbs, I never would have bred her if she wasn't spayed when I rescued her, she would have been soon afterward. She's too little to have puppies safely I think, I'm over joyed with the 10 years I've had with my little nutcase, I wouldn't trade those years for puppies at all.

We're not saying these things to be mean but to make sure you understand the risks and the responsiblities inherent in breeding any dog, cat or horse for that matter.

[Auddymay]

What is your girl's name? She looks to be black or possibly a blue. She does look to have rusting, which happens with some black Chows. There is a breeder in Georgia that used to be a member...not sure if he is still in the biz, he was looking to breed show quality Chows and at the time of his departure from this forum and was having problems with the show folks...they tend to be cliquish, from his description.

[Fozzbear]

Hello and welcome.
Why do you want to breed from your girl?
Is she a purebred chow chow? She is quite unusual for a chow.

[ChowChowProud]

What is your girl's name? She looks to be black or possibly a blue. She does look to have rusting, which happens with some black Chows. There is a breeder in Georgia that used to be a member...not sure if he is still in the biz, he was looking to breed show quality Chows and at the time of his departure from this forum and was having problems with the show folks...they tend to be cliquish, from his description.

Her name is Sapheera and yes, It's safe to say that she is rusting. She was pure black as a small puppy and after about a year the highlighting began. She has always been kept on the inside and never really spent a large amount of time outdoors over long periods of time so we don't believe it's sun bleaching. In the winter time her coat tends to darken again. Growing up as a child my family has always had chows in our family and she is a first of her kind that I've seen. I've looked through some of the members here and a few are from GA but it looks as a lot of them have not been active members in a long time.

[ChowChowProud]

Hello and welcome.
Why do you want to breed from your girl?
Is she a purebred chow chow? She is quite unusual for a chow.

Hello, yes she is a purebred CKC Chow Chow.
She was the smallest of her litter BUT the spunkiest indeed. I love Chows, grew up with them in my family as a small child. I'd like to keep the Atlanta area clean with a community of chows that are not interbred (that seemed to a big problem in FL) and also many of my friends after being around my Chow have fallen in love with her and would like a Chow Chow of their own. Also we just moved to a larger house with more land and my wife has her heart set on getting another Chow Chow puppy, so I'd rather it be a puppy from our very own Chow Chow.

[Ursa's daddy]

Well, my shoulder was hurting, because I overdid it in the yard, so I did not sleep well last night. This gave me an opportunity to think about you dog. If your concern is over inbreeding, moving to Hotlanta is no real answer. If you can move, so can someone else. I have two Savannah dogs here in Gulfport, Mississippi. You have to have kennel breeding records if you want to breed and improve the breed. Your chow's color reminds be of my male, Malachi, who photographs quite brown with a flash, so I always try to get pictures in sunlight. He does have a reddish tint, which makes him look like a bear.
As far as breeding, I am opposed to it because every day I see pictures from http://www.facebook.com/CHOWSINNEED and
http://www.chowsinneed.com. It is heart breaking to see these dogs in need of rescue. I have five dogs and three cats, and I would have more if it were possible.

There, I am off my soap box.

[Rory's Dad]

I will pipe in just for my viewpoint, not from experience or for any sort of inkling to breed Rory at this point in time...although we ultimately probably will.

Rory's lineage is genetically tested and his mother was an AKC GCH. His father did not finish his campaign due to a broken tooth. That is why we would like Rory to compete on his own merit. Our vet has recommended that we not even consider his own testing or siring thoughts until he is at least 2 years old (she is a breed specialist for what thats worth). This is due to some issues with the breed not showing up until full adulthood (dysplasia, entrop, etc). Many dogs are bred way prior to this and without full testing. Not good.

And dont forget, Chow puppies are naturally sweet and loving. Rory is a friendly, happy dog, but he's only 13 months. Much can change with the personality once they reach adulthood. I dont anticipate any changes, but it can happen. Hard to judge a Chows friendliness and disposition much before 18 months.

Since you dont attribute her copper attributes to sun fade, consider other options. I personally have seen a lot of black/blue Chows that get silver highlights. This can be a nutritional issue. Happens naturally in older dogs, but something to consider.

As others have said, please dont take this as an affront, but do seek a professional assessment. Your Chows overall health needs to be considered before having a litter. Is she up for it? Are her qualities really desirable? Does she have any genetic shortcomings that would be passed on?

Final thought, but why do you want to breed her? Financial, desire to have more pups in house, or to enhance breed?

[Sirchow]

Your chow looks like a black to me....what am I missing here? Sunlight and sometimes not so good nutrition can cause this.

I dont feel qualified to have an opinion on whether you should breed or not but I will say that it breaks my heart to see all the chows dying in US shelters because they were bred with good intentions or for money and then abandoned when the going got tough. In the UK (in general) we dont have chows in shelters. There are not the same number being bred and it is falling all the time so not many end up being rehomed and rarely to they end up in shelters. Probably less than half a dozen a year. Think about the reasons. I can tell you from experience you will not make any money from it unless you cut corners on good food, vet care etc. It is a 24/7 job for at least six of the eight weeks....you sleep with them, eat with them, live with them, think about them, worry about them and delight over them. I am not judging but be sure you do it for the betterment of the breed. Health issues need to be considered, pedigrees and inbreeding examined back five generations. New owners need to sign a contract to ensure your puppies will NEVER end up in a shelter being PTS and you need to be willing to take any of them back if the new owners cannot keep them.

Going back to my point about nutrition earlier sometimes causing poor pigmentation in blacks, if you are to breed you need to improve the nutrition of your bitch to the best food money can buy and she needs to stay on that food. You will take sooooo much out of her with puppies and feeding them that you need to put it in in shovel loads. Izzie was on five full sized feeds of puppy food during lactation and after, to build her up. Wewere going through expensive puppy food like water but she is none the worse for having been through that now. I had to hand feed ever meal cos she had no wish to eat that amount. It is a HUGE commitment.

I can understand where the views on this site are coming from. You only have to look in the rehoming section to see how passionately and tirelessly so many members work at trying to rehome but I think it is better not to alienate people who are determined to breed. Better you should have a forum that you can visit for help and advice and support if you do go ahead. So please stick around and also please think very carefully about the future of those puppies and their health

[Rory's Dad]

Sirchow brings up a good point on the costs and care needed for mom. I remember back to when we 1st met Rory and his littermates. He was six weeks old. The litter was 5 pups. We met dad (Dunkan) and all the pups. Mom (Elsa) was kind of held at bay for she still wanted to protect the pups, but also because she was still tired. She had lost a good amount of underfur from the nursing process. She looked great at rest and did not display any aggressive behavior, but was separated from us at that time.

[612guy]

First welcome to our site. I'll play devils advocate and say if you want to breed her then do it and enjoy it. Most people here that say you must have the dogs tested, didn't buy from tested dogs. In the ideal world that would be the case but that will never happen. If every dog was tested the price would go way up and most people couldn't afford them. It's hard enough to find chow puppies in a lot of areas already.

People also say you will never get your money back but must realize if it was all about money then nobody would have most things they have. Kids would be the first things because the cost but also vacations, pets, or any hobby for that matter. We show Brutus and will never recoup the cost but we enjoy it and will until we don't. If cost was the only factor I wouldn't play golf or have a boat and fish either.

612

[Ursa's daddy]

@612guy, You are correct in all that you said. My two are rescue dogs, fixed, and I don't care about their genetic make up, they are my dogs, (or maybe they see it as I am their human) and I really love them. My opposition to breeding is that there are SO MANY chows here in the US that are in shelters and need rescue.

[612guy]

Ursa's daddy, I think that you being an advocate of rescued chows is really great. I'm relative new to this site and really didn't know that there were that many of them. But if some has a very nice chow and wants to breed her/him they shouldn't be attacked by everyone. I was tired of other reasons because most people that made those statements didn't follow them when they bought their dog/dogs.

612

[Ursa's daddy]

I hope it did not seem that I was attacking ChowChowProud. Someone has to breed chows or there will be no more. Sirchow's post about her experiences has been wonderful to follow. Yes, I am advocating rescuing chows if you can. I am currently working with a friend who trains rescue dogs as service animals for Vets with PTSD. My main contribution is opening my big mouth. It is amazing what he can do with training dogs, and it is amazing what the dogs do for their Vet. If anyone is interested in learning more, PM me.

[Auddymay]

Was my first Chow from a BYB? Yes. Did I see the bigger picture then, as I do now? No Having a Chow that, for lack of a better comparison, has autistic behaviors, I hope will help me atone a little for being a part of the problem.

He will never be normal, and frankly, I cannot imagine a lot of people that would want a Chow they cannot even reach down and pet. I was so proud tonight when he checked out his favorite water dish and it was empty, so he came to me and whined a little to get me up to fill it. I love my D'Lion, and he loves me back in his own special way.

So, I guess I'm saying that I don't feel so much like a hypocrite, but as someone who was open enough to learn and correct my behavior. If I can shape even one other person's thinking about the bigger picture, I feel good for risking a little alienation and accusations of hypocracy.

[Ursa's daddy]

Auddymay, one of the good things that these forums can do is educate folks. Basically, you don't know what you don't know. I can tell you that I read through the forum to learn more, and quite frequently I learn something new. Of course, I am still quite young. (I am going to have to replace these mirrors in the house. They are defective and show a reflection of some old fart.) As far as hypocrisy and things like that, my hope is to one day become the man that my dogs think I am.

[Sirchow]

If only we could all do that Dogs Dad what a better world it would be