Knee Surgery Recovery Diary

[dannyoconnor430]

Hi not posted for some time on here - Ive been somewhat busy. A quick update on both Hollyand Max I still live in the Widnes area, but my circumstances changed a little last year so me and the kids packed up and moved to a new place. It hasnt been easy and looking after 2 energetic chow chows has been quite hard but I have to say Im glad I stuck with them.Unfortunately I do work so I ave to leave them for the day but I make up for this with 2 daily walks with them and they get spoilt! Max is now 4.5yrs old and a big ginger (about 40kg) and Holly is 5.5 but a smaller and more dainty one. I think Max went wrong somewhere! Anyway when I was out walking them last week I noticed a slightly dubious movement in Max, when I went home he went to sleep. He then tried to get up and my heart nearly broke I had old dogs before and straight away I though HipDysp. So booked him in the local vet and he went in yesterday for a X Ray. Went in for the results and bizarely his hips were really good. They can also carry a defect in their feet but this too was fine. However, his rear right knee was completely gone. I felt so sad for him. I felt even more guilty that I hadnt noticed it - he must walk about 10km a week. So I have him booked in fora procedure on Monday to have it cleaned out and a nylon thing put in. For anyone interested (as its hard to get an idea on price) the procedure is about £700 but all in all your looking at nearly £1000. im insured so its ok. My worry comes after the X Ray though. He was only sedated but since he has been really really really stressing. Hes fine when hes asleep but when not its heart breaking. Hes managed some food and Ive walked him, then took him back to the vet who thinks its just stress. But I was wondering whether anyone knew if the actual alligning for the Xrays can actually cause them pain afterwards? Any thoughts would be appreciated as I am at a loss. I'll be glad once done on monday and Im off for a few days with him as well. Fingers crossed!!!

[kingalls]

I'm not sure if I fully understand...he has not been eating normally or breathing normally since the sedation for the x-rays?
What kind of alignment was done to take the x-rays? Are you thinking that he's in pain because of the alignment? I would be asking questions, too. Perhaps it is the pain he already had that has made him uncomfortable and the "alignment" aggrevated it.

[dannyoconnor430]

Hi sorry - missed some detail there. I managed to get him to eat last night (went and bought a big bag of minced beef and after looking at it for ten mins he put it down him), he is breathing fine when asleep but seems to be panting a bit when awake. Have to say its 5am over here and just got up for work and give him some hamand cheese which he's eaten.

His movement is the same as it was. Im not entirely sure of the procedure but I think its done under sedation and then they lie the dog on its back and splay the legs. They then take the x ray of the hip area to check the general condition which was good. They then work down each leg taking 2 of each to capture the knee and ankles. Its during this I believe they may have over stretched him a little.

He almost looks disorientated. He is on some drops called Metacalm, which is used to relieve pain from joints especially in arthritis which he has in his knee. I will be leaving him confined today and check him again later. I took him back to the vets last night but they cant find anything wrong with him.

From the detail the procedure he is having on monday is I think the tightrope CCL. Im led to believe that the process then a matter of time and relaxation (which will be hard) to build it back up. I am lucky in that just around the corner from my house is a dog hydrotherapy place. Whether this can be involved from an insurance point of view Im not bothered but I think I will prob take him there after the 1st 4 weeks once per week tohelp build up the muscle in his back legs.

My brother owns a show English Mastiff, he used this once per month just as a low impact exercise technique for his dog. He has also recommended a readily available supplement called glucasamine to asssist with joint care but I'll follow the vets lead initially.

Im not entirely sure what happened last night, but got up this mrning and Holly is now holding up exactly the same leg . Im hoping that is a simple sprain but will keep an eye on it over the weekend. I can always take her in for a check up on monday but its just my luck if thats whats haooened. I would like to point out by the way that I do look after them very well - theyre well socialised, they are walked daily in some local woods and over the weekendsI generally put them in the car and take them out somewhere nice. Weather permitting of course - wet chows arent good!

Coupled to the above I alsoput my car in the garage yesterday for some minor work and was told it would cost more than its worth to put things right. So now have to find a new car as well. What a month - they say things come along in 3's. Oh well at least under adversity things can only improve!

[Sirchow]

Hi there, I am so sorry to hear about poor Max. I know how that sinking of the stomache feels having been there too. There are other tests they may have done as well as Xray to find out what was the matter with his knee. There is the drawer test which is done to the knee to try to assertain the amount of movement and if the ligament is torn. This often causes more damage and certainly pain and more limping. You do not need to be rushed into this proceedure vets try to scare you with talk of arthritus etc.

I have been through this with my Bramble who tore the left knee at five months and the right one at six. There are alternatives to surgery and if you are interested try the yahoo site http://pets.groups.yahoo.com/group/Cons ... anagement/ I have been using this for the last 13 weeks and Bramble is sound again even though I was told she would have to have 2 x TPLO surgery at a cost of over £3000 as soon as she stopped growing! There is a whole community of people using this method all over the world and it works for many dogs long term though your vet is not likely to agree or tell you about it.

If you want to PM me I will try to tell you more about it if you are interested. The thing is you will have to go through almost the exact same proceedure if you have the surgery to rest Max anyway. I hope Holly is OK. Sounds like you have a lot on your plate at the moment.

[Judy Fox]

Oh Dear! I am so sorry - I hope he is better after his surgery, poor little chap.

[sue]

if he is a sensitive boy then you can find they get very stressed after being knocked out.i had the same thing with one of my twins zeus when he ripped a dew claw last month and had to knocked out heavy panting,pacing up and down,just looking as if hes uncomfortable and cant settle it takes a good few days to get all the sedation out of there system plus he will be confused about whats happened to him keep your vet informed if you have the slightest worry take him back to see the vet.
as far as the metacam goes keep your eye on the back end and the bowel movement one of my previous girls had leg problems and was given this it can cause irritation to the stomach lining it did with her and she had to given a alternative medicine.i was advised to feed him chicken,fish added to pasta or scrambled egg. i hope all goes well for you.

[dannyoconnor430]

Thanks guys, its now been a few days and although he is still a little "odd" he appears to be getting back to normal. Sue you're correct he is a bit of a dog "emo" so this might be just a continuation of that. Hes not panting as much and Ice just got back from a 10min walk. Holly the tripod came along as well and I think with her shes just hurt her actual ankle messing around in the garden. She seems to be putting weight back on her leg and Ive had a feel of both her knees and there is no swelling there.

I gave them both a little milk and cheese last night, over the years Ive found in very small quantities it can help ease digestive issues and from reading a lot of other forums it appears the morphine he had can create constipation. Well when he jumped all over me this morning and wanted to go out I would say thats an immediate hit. I wouldnt recommend too much milk though, last time I had to resort to it was when I moved Holly 3 years ago. She went on number 2 strike. After day 4 I'd had enough and let her have some cows milk. It was an immediate success.

So my stress levels are lowering a little now, just have to get to monday now get him sorted out and then its a long rehab process.

The flooring in my house (rented) has now been covered in numerous and different rugs so we have no slippages whilst he is recovering. I noticed that after some of these ops the dogs are issued with a sedative patch to keep them from getting excited and hurting themselves. I'll speak to the vet about that on Monday.

Thanks again everyone

[IliamnasQuest]

It sounds like he tore a cruciate ligament? Poor boy!

When they position a dog for a hip x-ray to check for dysplasia, they put the dog on its back and then pull the hind legs straight. Since he had an injured knee it probably did cause a bit of irritation to it, but if the x-rays were necessary it was one of those things that couldn't be helped. In addition, the sedation is difficult for some chows and it can take a while to wear off - and the medication to help with pain will also cause some drowsiness and lack of appetite (as will pain).

Cruciate ligament surgery is generally pretty successful, at least here in the U.S. I would assume it's pretty similar where you live. I've seen many dogs come through the surgery and with physical therapy return to full active lives. The difficult part is keeping him quiet for the weeks it takes to mend after surgery. You can do a lot during this time, though. You can teach him little behaviors like putting his front paw on your hand when you put your hand on the floor, finding a treat under a pile of socks, speaking/barking, etc. Try to find games that are low impact that he can do with little movement and it will help keep him mentally stimulated.

Hydrotherapy is wonderful, and it's great that you have access to that! You'll want to check with your vet as to when you can start it, but movement in water is so much safer than other means of exercising when a joint is involved. Glad you can use that!

Good luck to Max, and I hope you keep the forum updated.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

[dannyoconnor430]

Well the day before the operation. Updates for both of them:

Max - seems to have settled down to near normal levels now so Im putting that down to a mix of stress, pain from the moving around and also stomach upset from the drugs used. He has been eating a bit and Ive taken him for a decent walk today.

Holly - still limping but not as severely now. She does stand on that leg I have a feeling from looking over it she hasnt hurt her knee, its more a twisted ankle. I left her in whilst walking Max today. I'll gauge her in the morning and maybe take her in for a check up at the same time as him. Providing its nothing too bad it may be a god send if she is slightly less mobile for this next week or two! (and I dont wish harm on her!).

So busy week, I have 2 downstairs rooms (loung and kitchen) so Ive put a gate up between the two. During the day I'll keep them seperate. Ideally I would get him a crate but I think the stress would be worse than anything putting him in one of them. Ive also got to see the neighbour about any daytime barking (dont like upsetting them) and build a ramp for him to get out of the house for toilet time. Busy!

Thanks for your thoughts Im sure it'll all work itself out in the end.

[dannyoconnor430]

Picking Max up in an hour, built a ramp for him to get out the house and bought him a new bed (Im a sucker cos I know he will not use it!). Also took Holly in. She has damaged her cruciate as well but not as sever so shes now got to take it easy - so thats both of them! The vet has agreed that I can take him hydro in 2 weeks time once his wound has healed so I might do a double booking for him and her - maybe 2 sessions next month with a 2 week interval between. After that I'll start taking them on lite walks.

So Im not really sure what to expect over the next few weeks, Ive assumed hes going to be really strange for a few days again so its a case of sitting with them and maintaining the peace!

Ive bought a load of mince today from the supermarket just so I can get a good weeks feed in for both of them. They'll no doubt have the no eating sulks together. Also got them some pig ears to give them something to do.

[CoraP.]

Well...you've got your hands full with Max and Holly. I hope everything goes well with Max today. It may be a good thing that Holly needs to take it easy, too. Misery loves company! Good luck to you all!

[dannyoconnor430]

Well Ive got him back now....wow! his rear leg looks like a poodles. Well here's the general rules for post op recovery:

First 3 days no movement
After that "toe touching" for upto 2 weeks.
Light walking of 5 mins per day VERY SLOW for 2 weeks
Light walking for a few months..

So waiting in vets for him to be brought out....in he comes TRYING to use the flippin damaged leg! So the Toe Tuch has already gone. I knew he would be a nightmare, the vet commented that he thinks hes got one of the highest pain thresholds hes ever seen (certain exercises to test should have had him in a lot of pain) but that for me is a bad thing as he wont know his own limits.

My next job is keeping Holly off him. She wont leave him alone at the min so Im spending a night on the couch. I'll try and keep people posted on his recovery, Im planning on some Hydro in 2 weeks for the pair of them its about £20 per session but well worth it to aid with the recovery.

[dannyoconnor430]

Morning guys you may have noticed that I have changed the topic name. Ive been asked to run a diary on this common complaint as I am going through it which is a good idea as there is little in depth recovery information available. As you may recall the vets have their general idea of how a dog recovers which is fine BUT this is Max and I have to say he has had me cringing a lot the last couple of days. I think in general it is because he genuinely doesnt see having no knee ligaments as a problem. Within 24hrs he was toe touching and this is day 2 of recovery having had the operation on monday.

From my earlier post you will know that I had a rough sleep (with Max) on the first night so yesterday I went and picked up a cone for him as he wont leave the area alone. I would imagine its itching because of the wound but also the hair growin back.

To say he doesnt like it is an understatement! Ive cut it down twice to make it a bit more comfortable and today hes notas bad. I was only up twice last night as well so hes getting better everyday.

Well this morning I found him actually using the leg in question.... there is nothing I can do to stop this but I have to restrict his activity as much as possible. One thing I will say though, he is a tough tough tough dog. Ive never known anything like it. He must be in discomfort but hes doing really well.

His appetite is not back yet but he has had some mince and a little cheese treat this morning, not much but enough to keep him going.

His other leg is getting stronger already, of course I dont want to put that under too much strain but at least he can get up and get around. He was hopping ok but as Ive said above he is using his injured leg much to my dismay!

So in 8 days I take him back for staple removal, Im then realistically looking at a further week till his first hydro session. This should not only help with the injured knee but also help strengthen the other and of course give him some much needed exercise.

Im back in work tomorrow so it'll be his first full day without me, my girlfriend is popping around though.

One note of advice for anyone with this though, don't expect that sitting with them is any comfort in any way! I would actually say it makes things worse, I ended up stressing quite a bit. But yesterday I spent a few hours out and spoke to my neighbour, barring some initial whining he went to sleep until my return at which point he bashed me in the legs.

The key to recovery is REST and removal of stress. We owners sometimes (with the best of intentions) dont help but its awful when one of your furrkids is hurt.

Oh and I caught Holly doing the wizzy thing this morning and much to my dismay he tried to join in. Put an end to that one quickly!

[Zhuyos mom]

Danny,

Mandy did a diary on Chewie's ACL surgery. It's in the "Best of Health" section (http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=697). Might be good reading for you.

Hope your duo heal well.

[Auddymay]

I wish you and the furkids a quick turn around with the injuries. I don't think we realise how active our Chows are, until we have to suppress them!

[Buddha4me]

We are almost 3 weeks out from our torn ACL surgery. Buddha did the same things, putting weight on the bad leg from the minute I picked him up after surgery. He didn't eat much for almost a week, but then did much better. We are walking a good distance daily, but he is still favoring that leg, and while standing he will shift some weight off of it time to time. I can tell when he over does it, but there's no stopping him. All of my Chow's have had a very high tolerance to pain, I think it's just a Chow thing, they are amazingly tough dogs. I think it's almost beneath them to admit to being in pain sometimes... no really I'm fine Mom Hope things continue to go well for you both. I agree it is very stressful for us humans, maybe even more than for the dogs!

[dannyoconnor430]

Well - day 4 and its come around quite quickly really. Appetite is still low but hes up and moving around. i didnt get woke up last night but my girlfriend did - Holly and Max having a little spat over the bed neither of them want! But he seems like himself more and more. Ive ditched the cone now, he licking at the leg a bit but nothing too bad and to be honest the stress the cone is causing is probably not worth it! Hes pretty mobile at the moment, Im not walking him but he does have access to the back yard.

hes also started having fun on the ramp I built - wont use it normally but will run up and down it!!!

Its 6am in UK and Im getting ready for work so just a quick update. Half way to when his staples come out. The wound looks very clean and the fur is starting to grow back. One thing though - we didnt get the sedative patch I dont think the vets in the UK like them. I think that would possibly help in the long run but at least he keeps his ginger fro!

[dannyoconnor430]

Hi all, tomorrow is the day for thestaples to be removed. Have to say hes recovered well, in general day to day movement Iwould say he is now better than before the op and he wasnt exactly immobile. Although not welcome, hes showing off by standing on 2 legs quite a bit - not being encouraged just think hes showing off. Took him and Holly for their first 10mins walk, its rabbit time at the moment so keeping them calm is a nightmare but they needed it after being confined for 2 weeks,me too I reallyenjoyed it. So staples tomorrow then hopefully get him in for some aqua physio next week.

[LEO's mum]

Sending healing thoughts your way. Do consider giving him Glucosamine & Chondriotin tablets as part of his daily supplements. Unlike meds there seems no major side effects.

Best Wishes,
Leonora & mum

[dannyoconnor430]

Okay update time. Max is now (for the most part) fully mobile again. I think he will always retain a certain amount of problems as a result of the injury but he's walked for 20 mins every day now (and if he doesnt he lets me know!) and on a weekend I treat them to a longer walk on the extender leads. He does have a bit of trouble getting up but its generally when hes been lay down too long. So fingers crossed his troubles are over, I still expect a few more months recovery but the signs are good. He actually jumped up at me today which although he never normally does, it does at least prove that he his getting some strength back in his legs agains.

[CoraP.]

I'm glad to hear this! Best wishes to you and Max!

[Mia]

Oh, I am so glad to hear that he is pretty back to normal.
What a tough thing to go through - but you are such an amazing chow parents. Max is so lucky to have you.

[dannyoconnor430]

You wouldnt think it Mia but thanks! I'm about to put a behavioural post on as he's been very naughty of late. Thought sorting him out he might cut me some slack - no chance!

[Auddymay]

How is Max doing? Still progressing? Now that he seems much better, I imagine it is back to strict chowrenting. they do like to take every advantage offered.

[dannyoconnor430]

Hi thanks for asking. I'll tie this in with some nutritional stuff as theres a bigger picture (as always!). First of all, the anti inflam stuff the vet gave after the operation gave him really really bad constipation. It got to the point of approximately 4 days and I couldn't let it go on - so as a quick fix I put a cap full of milk in his food bowl a couple of times a day. Next day - he was able to go. But that rules out that medicine (and I can't remember the name but its a general thing in drop form that I suppose is like doggy Ibuprofen!). SO I then looked at alternatives and put both Holly and Max on Synflex for about 2 months with a reasonable set of results which then allowed me to look at the Chondroitin and Glucasamine in their diet. However, getting Holly to take the Synflex was a real annoyance, she's so fussy! So I looked at alternatives and although Holly is 6 and Max only five found Arden Grange Senior with added levels of the above. In a wholesale move I moved them from their preivous cheap food and Synflex onto Arden Grange with some mince and also a cod liver oil tablet. So - the results (as they're all tied in!). Holly was beginning to get a bit limpy/clicky but not to Max's extent. So for her it was more of a maintenance thing. But with her the results have been unbelievable and if anyone reads this please take note - pay the money for better food as it makes for a better chow!! Although I didn't realise at the time, in comparison to now, I would say Holly had become a bit sluggish. Tired, lost a bit of her spark and because it was something that was always there you just accept it as her being 6 years old. However - I blame it on diet which is my fault. I never fed them bad food - just never premium. Simply because I was put off with the testing and manufactured rubbish thats very overpriced. So she has been on that now for a good 2 months and all I can say is that she is like a pup again. I can not walk her to exhaustion. Over the years, generally a good 30min leash walk has been enough for her. However I've had them both out for at least 45mins per day on the extendable leads and she just wants more. She runs back and forth and although these are behaviour traits that aren't wanted she has become ignorant, self indulging, playful at random times (ie bed time going and collecting the doorstop for a throw) and really really pig headed - but these are all Chow traits!!! So I can't complain. She seems very happy. So we move on to Max and thats a different story. Firstly the surgery on his effected leg has been succesful and he seems to be responding to the food. It was never going to be 100% normal again as he has actually had a surgical procedure BUT i think all in all thats been a sucess. But that has potentially led to another problem. Max is first and foremost the baby of the two. And loves his routine....