Get Ready for the Backlash

[Laura]

why can we no longer delete our own posts?

[nuke]

This story is so sad... my heart goes out to all involved, but the baby should NOT have been left alone with the dog no matter what.

But today I walked into my science class, binder in hand(it has pictures of Tippsy and Jasper ALL over it) and my teacher looks at me and says "did you hear about the chow that "attacked" that baby?" I just bit my tounge and went to my seat. I wanted to say something but I didn't.

I would have asked the teacher how he/she knows that it was the chow part of the mix breed that was the problem.

[Jeff&Peks]

Let's just say that Chows need owner who are at least as intelligent as they are! Tony you do not qualify.

My oh my. You all are a nasty little gang of pea-brained losers, are't you? No wonder they quarantined you all here.

Tony

Tony must have an attraction for Pea-brained idiots he has been on the site all day, Tony life is easy just leave. Think about it, who is the idiot us or you for for staying on a website all day that you don't like?

[Auddymay]

Face it, tony the terrier only came to stir the pot. Sir, if you want to name call and start trouble, you came to the wrong place. We are a peace loving folk, who are discussing a breed we happen to know in depth. You came here to find out about the vicious breed, you looky lou...(Sorry, Lou). How disappointing.

Here are a few facts: Any breed will bite. While some breeds carry certain personality traits, I know of no breed that is described as naturally vicious. Our own breed is aloof, and protective. They are also independent thinkers, able to problem solve, which make it hard for the average Joe to own because they manipulate the human.

Any breed that is a 'protector' by nature can be both warped by humans that own them (as in dog fighting and general abuse/mishandling) and regarded as vicious to the idiots who don't know how to read signs of a dog protecting what is dear to them. If the truth be told, the larger breeds bite much less than the smaller ones, but the bites are more damaging when they do bite. We will never know the whole story, but it is a fact that you don't leave a baby alone with an animal...you just don't.

When my daughter was a baby trying to take steps, she fell on our sleeping Boxer. She hit hard on his back hip, and he swung his rather large head around to see what happened. His muzzle hit the baby, and his canine left an ugly scratch across her face. She fell over and screamed like a banshee. Had I not been right there, I would not have know the chain of events. And while a baby died in the events of the day, the fact is, it really was the mother's fault.

[kiwani]

Research the Jaden Mack tragedy...



Dogs 'Not To Blame' For Baby Death, Says Animal Behaviour Expert
http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/articles/138427.php


http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/847 ... ff-a-table

[Judy Fox]

There have been several incidents over here on The Island about dogs "killing" babies. The most recent one was a baby in the care of the grandmother when the parents were out for the night. The baby - believe it or not - had been put to bed on the dining room table bumpered all round with pillows and so on and the grandmother dozed off to sleep on the settee.

The dog (cannot remember the breed) for some reason or other got the very young baby and the grandmother ran into the street screaming that the baby was dead.

Now I ask you - who puts a baby to bed on the dining room table - and whose fault is it.

Dogs should never be left alone with babies or young children - indeed with children until it is sure that a child can handle/understand the dog.

We had a beautiful Great Dane called Lizzie and she absolutely adored our granddaughters. She was so happy when our eldest granddaughter was born and was a constant play-mate and when the baby sister was born she was thrilled. When, 10 months later, a baby cousin was born she was so beside herself with joy, she produced milk which was dripping out of her and we had to take her to the vet to get tablets for her.

Now - what might/could have happened if she had been left with those babies?

She could have decided she could look after them on her own and tried to carry them off. I hate to think.

What I do know is that she was the most gentle, trustworthy dog one could ever meet - but babies were never left alone with her.

As in the case in question, I am dreadfully sad for the family and I suspect they will never truly recover from the trauma but the fact still remains, the baby should never have been left alone with the dogs. Fact!!
Lizzie with our eldest granddaughter using her as a stool.
...and this picture is of our daughter when she was little with our first Dane Jenny. Much loved dogs, totally trustworthy but never left alone.

Furthermore, when our younger daughter was crawling about, she would crawl over to Jenny who had a large round basket and crawl in, stick her thumb in her (own) mouth, put her head on Jenny's ribcage and go to sleep. Jenny could actually get out of the basket so gently that she would leave Rhiannon asleep in it and what is more, she could get back in the basket and curl round without either waking or hurting her - but she was still never left alone with her.

[kiwani]

The most recent one was a baby in the care of the grandmother when the parents were out for the night. The baby - believe it or not - had been put to bed on the dining room table bumpered all round with pillows and so on and the grandmother dozed off to sleep on the settee.

That's the Jaden Mack tragedy in the link I posted. There were two different breeds involved. The grandmother often babysat the grandson in her own home, but fell asleep this time waiting for the parents to come home from a night out. It seems she didn't own a baby-crib.

[Judy Fox]

Yes, Kiwani - that is the one - I recall not you have pointed out there were two breeds involved. There have been at least another two here over the last three or four months. Tragic.

[Red Dragon]

Do you see anything wrong with your story and why you got bit?

Ever eat Hot Pockets? This Ham and Cheese Hot Pocket is awful.

Let's see.... I was petting a dog that loves me, she growled and bit me. I don't see what I did wrong. The dog may have had her own ideas, but I did nothing but pet her.

You should know, Jeff. Pekoe has bitten people before and she has bitten you.

Jeff doesn't get it Nuke. There are many Chows out there that are unstable and will bite at the drop of a hat for no reason, or what should be no reason. You are wasting your time argueing with Jeff about that fact.

A dog isn't going to kill a baby trying to move it, and it wouldn't try and grab it by the head if it was trying to move it, it would have grabbed the childs clothing, because that is loose like skin on a puppy, that would be instinctive. This dog most likely was jealous and bit the kid out of jealousy, it was the parents fault for allowing it to happen. The dog was put down, and it was the right thing to do, end of story.

[Red Dragon]

My point was not a challenge whether purebred or not, but rather concerning the reporting of the facts by the media.
If the dog is a mix, then it should be reported as such...period. Without the facts, the chow genes carry the entire burden
of this tradgedy. The backlash could be chow-phobia, causing many chows to be needlessly euthanized.
Because, there is so much at stake here, the facts need to be truthful and correct.


Let's talk about common sense....

I agree with TJ, common sense is needed.
Never leave a baby unattended, with any animal, or small children for that matter.
I would never leave a child vulnerable to anything.
Where's the common sense???

Once, I had an adorable next door neighbor, who left her baby in a high chair, eating a snack, while she came to my house
for a visit.
I was horrified and sent her home!
Where's the common sense???

Currently, in my neighborhood, there is a young father, who plays with his child on the large boulders in the river.
I saw this father put his 3 year old up on a rock, then walk about 30 feet away. This may not sound bad, however if the child
had tried to move and fell into the rapids, it could have easily killed the child. There is no way the father could have reached the child,
to save her, because he had to climb over boulders before reaching the child. At that point she would have been gone.
If I could have reached that father, I would have given him a strong lesson in parenting! I cringed to watch that!
The next time, I call the police!
Where's the common sense????

There is no common sense in this country anymore, not sure what happened to it either.

[Red Dragon]

Based upon the news story, I "GOOGLED" the word "Chow" and thereby made it to your site. I was curious about the breed and was thinking you folks would shed some light upon how a family dog could do such a thing. Little did I expect to run into such a hornets nest of warped, twisted thinkers. You all act as though the dog bears no responsibility whatsoever for the death of the baby and that it is all the mother's fault. Folks------- that is sick thinking. Any breed that would have you all as owners has two strikes against it already. I am sure that Chows, like any other breed, are fine dogs IF properly raised. Hopefully there are other Chow organizations better representing the breed.

Tony

There are some mentally warped people on this board, no doubt about that. They don't represent people that truely understand the breed though. Some of these dogs are capable of doing real damage, it comes from not being bred properly, and not raised properly. In this case, this dog was obviously not bred properly, as it was a mixed breed. All dogs are capable of the same thing this dog did, it didn't happen because it was a Chow or a Chow mix.

[Jeff&Peks]

There are some mentally warped people on this board, no doubt about that. They don't represent people that truely understand the breed though.

I will second that one and your the all time winner of mentaly warped, confused, misinformed and just all out srewed up in general. How is you always team up with the nuts that come on here, Hoping for a new friend? recruting for the land of the lost misfits? oh wait, potentail breeding customers? The only thing you know about Chows is the site says Chow

[Red Dragon]

I rest my case!

[Jeff&Peks]

Al Pacino (Michael): Red Dragon, you're my older brother and I love you, but don't ever take sides with anyone against the family again. Ever.

Some of these dogs are capable of doing real damage,

Pekoe: ( To Red Dragon): What have we ever done to make you treat us so disrespectfully? If you'd come to us in friendship, then this scum that ruined your thinking would be suffering this very day. And if by chance an honest man like yourself should make enemies, then they would become our enemies. And then they would fear you.

[Red Dragon]

I don't really know what all that is about, if you have something to say, just say it. As for respect, I respect each and every one of my dogs, as I know what they are capable of. The minute you think they are not capable of doing harm, is the minute you made a serious mistake. Dogs are animals, noone should forget that. It doesn't mean that because they are animals that you shouldn't take care of them and show them love, just respect them for what they are and never forget it.

[Auddymay]

That was Jeff's tongue in cheek humor via The Godfather.

[Jeff&Peks]

Way to deep for him.

[cleopatra20043]

While I feel horrible for the family, it is their fault and not the chows NEVER NEVER leave a small child alone with ANY dog! It kills me to see some of the neighbor kids outside with no supervision and dogs that are much bigger than they are that is just a recipie for disaster! I think the big issue is also going to be that the neighbor had a "chow mix" and this "attack" was also a chow so it is going to get people all bent out of shape for no reason. I'm glad that I don't live in AZ because I see a breed ban coming soon and these two stories are only adding more fuel to the fire. This is just sad on all accounts, the families that had their children hurt by their own stupidity and the chows/mix that are going to suffer and not just the two in the stories.

[summer_rose03]

According to the one video I just watched, they said the family owned other dogs, but didn't list the other breeds. How do they know it was the Chow? What if one of the other dogs did it and the Chow was going to protect the baby or help? Funny how they didn't mention the other breeds of dogs they owned.

[redangie24]

Dragon, you really cannot blame it on breeding. Allot of good dogs are mutts. In fact mutts are much less likely to have the health problems that purebred dogs have. Also, we don't know the temperment of the two dogs that mixed. They may have both been wonderful family dogs. We have no idea. We don't know if the ownder bothered to train the dogs at all. There are too many unknown factors for those out of the know...which would be us. They could have been people who used physical punishment or they may have been wonderful dog parents. Bottom line we are just speculating, no one person not involved can know for sure what happened. I hope since they are saying it is this chow mix that there was blood on the dog or some other indicator so they could know which dog. This is just a sad situation all the way around.

[CHowgal]

This story is so sad... my heart goes out to all involved, but the baby should NOT have been left alone with the dog no matter what.

But today I walked into my science class, binder in hand(it has pictures of Tippsy and Jasper ALL over it) and my teacher looks at me and says "did you hear about the chow that "attacked" that baby?" I just bit my tounge and went to my seat. I wanted to say something but I didn't.

I would have asked the teacher how he/she knows that it was the chow part of the mix breed that was the problem.

If I wouldn't have gone over the edge completely I may have... But I don't think it's something I shouldn't risk getting detention for. Or maybe I should have...

[Red Dragon]

Dragon, you really cannot blame it on breeding. Allot of good dogs are mutts. In fact mutts are much less likely to have the health problems that purebred dogs have. Also, we don't know the temperment of the two dogs that mixed. They may have both been wonderful family dogs. We have no idea. We don't know if the ownder bothered to train the dogs at all. There are too many unknown factors for those out of the know...which would be us. They could have been people who used physical punishment or they may have been wonderful dog parents. Bottom line we are just speculating, no one person not involved can know for sure what happened. I hope since they are saying it is this chow mix that there was blood on the dog or some other indicator so they could know which dog. This is just a sad situation all the way around.

That is a popular misconception, a dogs health is directly related to the parents health and the health in the lineage. Mixing breeds does not make a dog prone to be more healthy.

The reason I say it was a bad breeding is due to the fact it was a mix, until the designer dogs came about, mixed breed dogs were not planned breedings, for the most part. All one has to do is look at all the health problems in the designer dogs to realize that mixing breeds does not guarantee health too.

[redangie24]

Well I am sorry they must have taught us wrong at school. Purebred dogs are prone to certain problems depending on their breed. As I am sure you know. If you take a dog breed that is prone to entropian and one that is not and they mix the likely hood that they pups will have entropian in greatly reduced. It is basic genetics. It may not have better health overall, but it reduces the risks of breed specific illnesses.

[Red Dragon]

You can also take a Chow with entropion and a Chow without entropion, breed them together and lesson the chance of entropion in the litter, basic genetics. When you breed the the Chow with entropion to the other breed without, you run the risk of introducing entropion into the offspring, basic genetics. Get the picture?

[Auddymay]

You are simplifying genetics. If you breed a PB with another PB in another breed, you eliminate some genetic defects either breed may have specific to that breed caused by double recessives, owing to the fact the other animal cannot carry that gene. Also when you breed inclusively, there are complications in the brain that often get passed along and multiplied. such as breeding 2 chows that have specific genes that influence negative behaviors, which may not even exsist in a different breed. But we are not talking designer breeding here, rather happenstance accidents. Any geneticist will confirm that the more genetic dis-similarity in breeding, the healthier the resultant animal will be. Basic genetics.