Leroy Is Getting Sooooo Bad....Im Worried :(

[WeLoveLeRoy]

I have to start by explaining Leroy's whole story, so maybe with a better understanding someone could offer the right advice. Leroy was 8 weeks old when we drove to a small farming town to pick him out. The breeders werent too sure they would want someone coming one time and leave with their dog, not knowing how these people would treat the pups. So from this and other research I have done, whatever its worth he comes from a healthy family.

His first year, he was so sweet. So welcoming to anyone who came into our home. I never worried about him biting people period. In the last 12 months Leroy has bitten my daughters best friend badly, where she required a few stitches. This was entirely her fault though, as she did not know him on a daily basis, and tried to corner him. Leroy felt threatened, and i understood how he felt. Then, within a month my daughter once again had company,( these kids are all 16-18 btw) and if i werent there to call him away from this boy, Leroy was just about to bite him...for no reason what so ever. January of 20008, Leroy attacked my daughter who was 15 at the time. She was trying to shoo him up the stairs becuase she had her friends downstairs, and did not want another occurance. This attack was also severe, leaving huge scars on my daughters legs that she still has to this day. Once again, I explained to her that Leory is not your average dog, he cant be cuddled, coddled, or forced into anything he doesn't want to do. So this past saturday, another one of her friends is at our front door waiting for her. I went downstairs to give her a hug, and low and behold doesn't Leroy loose it....again. Luckily I was there, and because i am soooooo firm with him when I see he's about to attck, I was able to stop him. As he began to run up the stairs, I slapped his butt. I know hitting a dog is not the right thing to do, and trust me...he ignored me ALL day after that. Wouldn't come near me. I felt horrible, so I went and cuddled with him, petting him gently telling him how much i love him...lol, i know im weird, but i do love him so much. Im just at a loss for direction right now. Im a single mom, albeit a strong one too . I currently live w/my teenage daughter and my cousin (female also). Can anyone please help me with some advice. I will never let go of Leroy, and I certainly don't want him to be taken from me because he has hurt someone who may make a complaint .

[janet]

imo i would have your daughter and leroy do some one on one time with positive reinforcing.aka- have her give treats FOR GOOD BEHAVIOR. do you know how he is treated by her or anyone when youre not home?? i am also a single mom of two teenage boys 17/13. they know the rules at all times whether im home or not. they know luna and biggies EVERY move. if they are having friends over when im not home they gate them off in my room before they come to the house. if they see that they are just barking and crying in a good way, then they let them come and "meet" their friends. IF they see them acting a little indifferent (rarely) then they stay in my room til they leave. simple.
my son's last girlfriend was not one of lunas favorites.(mine neither). luna would just sit on the couch and stare at her, it was quite comical. she never growled barked or god forbid bit her.
also, perhaps leroy feels that once he bit your daughter, that now he thinks its acceptable. thats why training him/her with positive treat training might help.

when her friends are allowed to meet leroy, have them give him some treats. he will associate. kids friends= treats.
good luck.

[jacqui]

OK,it sounds like Leroy is running the show in your house.you sound like a great chow mom because it sounds like you are willing to work with Leroy.
first I would say for everyone in the house to start the NILF program with him which is basicly he has to work for everything.you can do a search here and go into the Training section.
Chows are funny dogs,they will take over if you let them.
do you walk Leroy daily? was he socialized as a pup?
I'm sure others here will have good advice.good luck and please keep us posted.

[Jeff&Peks]

My Chow has never really attacked anyone because I take precautions but she is capable of doing it and I know she would if people were bothering her or people were forcing them selves on her, In my house the rule is you touch the Chow your going to get bit, kids or adults no touching or petting and leave the Chow alone unless she comes to you. Just by reading your post I could give you reason's why your Chow did what it did but the best advice is , hands off the Chow Period, your not there all the time so you really don't know what went on to cause the attacks, with teenagers I'm sure there is more to the story. Chows do not bite with out reason, depending on how your daughter was trying to get the Chow up the stairs I can guess why your daughter was bit.

If you know there is going to be alot of people around or your daughter is having friends over its time to separate the chow from the crowd, your Chow needs a place to go where people won't bother her/him. when there is alot of kids around my Chow takes it upon herself and goes and hides in the bedroom where she knows she is safe and only comes out when the noise and crowd has settled down.

The NILF is fine but it dosn't happen over night and its not something you can just start and say ok problem is solved, when you start trying to use new rules on a Chow out of no where your going to have trouble plus a house full of teenagers could care less about NILF, try using in on a teenager sometime and see the reaction you get out of them. ...Life with a Chow is not as difficult as people try to make it if you just take the time to know what your dealing with and look at the Chows side of the story. Actually a Chow is mush easier to live with then most other breeds are.

[Coco Chow]

I would keep him separated from any guest coming at your place for now. Like you said, you don't want someone to complain to the police they got bit by Leroy...

My aunt had a german shepard, certainly a mix because he was black color and he had a lot of fur (now that I think about it, he also had big black spots on his tongue, so maybe he could have been part chow, mmmh?). Anyway, everybody in the family loved him but, boy he attacked so many people from outside the family, people that came home, he growled, he bit, he was taller than you when he put his paws on your shoulders, and he had huge teeth!
What I want to say is my aunt never took him on walks, he just stayed in the house and garden, I think he might have acted differently if someone had taken the time to socialize him with strangers. Do you take Leroy out sometimes?

I hope someone will be able to help you regarding his attacks on family members though... I know I'd start NILIF asap too.
Hang in there!

[WeLoveLeRoy]

Thanks so much to all of you offering the great advice. I am going to research the nilf practice but in the meantime i think the suggestion of bringing him to my room until EVERYONE is gone is going in effect today .

OK,it sounds like Leroy is running the show in your house.you sound like a great chow mom because it sounds like you are willing to work with Leroy.
first I would say for everyone in the house to start the NILF program with him which is basicly he has to work for everything.you can do a search here and go into the Training section.
Chows are funny dogs,they will take over if you let them.
do you walk Leroy daily? was he socialized as a pup?
I'm sure others here will have good advice.good luck and please keep us posted.

Yeah, we socialized Leroy with alot of people. My family and friends are always coming over, my house is busy. And I love that.

We all take turns walking Leroy everyday...so he gets three, 1o minute walks daily. And two runs a week with my neighbour. A male teenager that i thought would help Leroy work out some agression by taking him for a good run. Lol, i was thinking some male to male bonding would be good for Leroy. He lives with three girls.

Has anybody used a cage with a chow chow b4? We are considering it. That way he can stay near us when company is over.

[Jeff&Peks]

Don't you have a room that is open or a part of the yard your Chow can go to for quiet, I fenced off half my yard so Pekoe has her side and the intruders have there side, if everyone is in the house Pekoe has her own room to go to. Pekoe likes being in the action also so how ever I have things sectioned off she is able to see everyone and not missing out on anything even though she lays with her back to everyone pretending like she's not there. Try a couple of baby gates so she can see through it with out being locked away.

I personally don't like cages, they may be fine for puppies but not an adult Chow I have seen to many people that have left their dogs in cages take off for the day the house burns down or what ever and the dog is trapped.

[jacqui]

baby gates are a great idea Jeff

[TJordan]

I also use baby gates. Butters doesn't like any visitors (for the most part) so I use baby gates so he can still see in and when he calms down sometimes he is let in to mingle. Sometimes not.

[Mia]

Yes, my guys are hardly ever in their crate, but I have accustomed them to it, in case I need to put them in there.

Chutty, my little guy, pounces on smaller dogs and I have a friend that brings here chihuahuas over quite often. When the chihuahuas come over, if Chutty gets too rambunctious, he goes in the crate. (Always with a toy and a treat, so that it is a good place and not a punishment.) And, I do this before he does something wrong, so that I am not giving him a toy and treat as a "reward" for acting badly.

After a couple of minutes in the crate, he simmers down and comes out and is more gentle with the little guys.

If, I were to have lots of people over, and Mia and Chutty were too excited, I put them in their crates so that they can be a part of everything, without getting too crazy. (That is so, so rare, because usually, I have them get to know everyone as they come through the door - that way they get used to the company and enjoy it.)

[Laura]

I don't want to be Miss Negative but the very first chow I ever owned was mean as the dickens and I had no idea about training or what to do. I had to lock him away in another room or outside whenever we had company or a party. He didn't like anyone else..period. It sounds like a very dangerous situation for your family because eventually he will bite a kid and that kids parents will freak out and Leroy will pay the price.
I would most definitely start NILF...I would also increase his walk times...three 10 minute walks is just not enough IMO. Three 30 minute walks would be better or at least two. I would also be concerned about who walks him...you don't want him getting away and going after someone outside the house.
As Jeff said there would be a no touch rule and I would put him away when people are over. I am assuming with a teenager that you may not always be around to supervise so a very serious talk with the teenager is in order as well about putting him up and not letting the friends be around him. She could use treats to lure him to another room or outside before guests come in. Going after someone at the door with you standing right there hugging them is very scary.
Also I would find a very good positive obedience class where all 3 of you can participate in training this guy.
I'm sure Special Darks mom and others will pipe up with wonderful and much more helpful advice for you. I just know how scary it is to live with one who will and actually has bitten someone. Is he neutered?

[weenis]

Is it like he just doesn't want to follow what you want him to do?

That's what is going on my my chow right now. She just doesn't want to do something. Leroy didn't want to go upstairs, he wanted to be downstairs, and when your daughter shooed him upstairs, it was going against what he wanted to do, so he "lashed out".

Is this what it seems like he's doing?

EDIT:

you can read about it all here- http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=11702

Maybe someone will have said something that will help you out.

[Jeff&Peks]

I don't want to be Miss Negative but the very first chow I ever owned was mean as the dickens and I had no idea about training or what to do. I had to lock him away in another room or outside whenever we had company or a party. He didn't like anyone else..period. It sounds like a very dangerous situation for your family because eventually he will bite a kid and that kids parents will freak out and Leroy will pay the price.

Yep, miss Negative, I don't think the problem is that serious just a few adjustments around the house and some Chow etiquette learned by the teens she will be fine. If I can trust Pekoe around kids then any Chow can be around kids. the kids need more educating then the Chow.

Chows are basically a peaceful breed they don't go out of their way looking for trouble and they pretty much try to avoid it they only go for the bite when they have no other choice, if they could get out of the situation with out trouble they would thats why they don't use Chows for dog fighting...Chows are content just laying around guarding the house and keeping the home and family safe, you leave them alone they will leave you alone. There is no reason for rough handling or abusive treatment. they know what's right and wrong and they know who belongs and who doesn't they don't need to be constantly stood over being trained and corrected. Quit pestering them with all this dog crap you won't have a problem.

[jacqui]

Jeff,you don't think a chow should be corrected after biting someone

[Jeff&Peks]

Jeff,you don't think a chow should be corrected after biting someone

I would first look at the reason for the bite if it's something stupid a human did which is the usual case then no the Chow shouldn't be corrected the human should. As I said Pekoe dosn't go out of her way to bite people so if someone gets bit I know damn well it wasn't Pekoe's fault.... I don't live in a house with masters and Alpha's I don't need to prove my manhood or superiority and Just because i'm the owner or parent doesn't make me right. There has been a few times pekoe has corrected me with a bark or snap and it turned out she was right. Kids are kids chows are Chows they are there to enjoy not revolve my life around training and complaining.


Pekoe bit me trying to put a muzzle on her at the vets so after 20 minutes of me getting bit and finely getting the muzzle on the vet walks in and says take the muzzle off of her she doesn't like it. so who was right me or Pekoe the vet agreed with Pekoe, I was wrong and got bit my fault not Pekoe's.

[WeLoveLeRoy]

.

Chows are basically a peaceful breed they don't go out of their way looking for trouble and they pretty much try to avoid it they only go for the bite when they have no other choice, if they could get out of the situation with out trouble they would thats why they don't use Chows for dog fighting...Chows are content just laying around guarding the house and keeping the home and family safe, you leave them alone they will leave you alone. There is no reason for rough handling or abusive treatment. they know what's right and wrong and they know who belongs and who doesn't they don't need to be constantly stood over being trained and corrected. Quit pestering them with all this dog crap you won't have a problem.[/quote]


We've never "pestered" Leroy in ANY way but still his behaviour was unacceptable.

[Jeff&Peks]

.

Chows are basically a peaceful breed they don't go out of their way looking for trouble and they pretty much try to avoid it they only go for the bite when they have no other choice, if they could get out of the situation with out trouble they would thats why they don't use Chows for dog fighting...Chows are content just laying around guarding the house and keeping the home and family safe, you leave them alone they will leave you alone. There is no reason for rough handling or abusive treatment. they know what's right and wrong and they know who belongs and who doesn't they don't need to be constantly stood over being trained and corrected. Quit pestering them with all this dog crap you won't have a problem.

We've never "pestered" Leroy in ANY way but still his behaviour was unacceptable.[/quote]

That was in general not directed at you but as for pestering i guess it would depend on how your daughter was trying to get your Chow up the stairs. If there is a bite, there is a reason.

[jacqui]

Jeff,I am not being a wise guy but I have to muzzle Kai at the vet and if he ever bit me there would be some consequences

[Jeff&Peks]

Jeff,I am not being a wise guy but I have to muzzle Kai at the vet and if he ever bit me there would be some consequences

"I am not being a wise guy"

I know, its just my typing style, apperantly my phone style also.

All I can go by is Pekoe, she is the worst tempered Chow on this site, she hates people, she hates kids, she hate vets, she hate's groomers and she hates anyone touching her or coming near her except for me yet she lives with a 6 ear old, attends weddings and parties goes to malls and outdoor events, goes to business meeting and to work with me and is around people all day and night but after 13 years of growling and snapping, cancer and grooming she has never attacked and bitten anyone except me and the 3 times she did it wasn't her fault. I'm sure Pekoe is way more spoiled then most because the world revolves around her, Pekoe can do no wrong as far as i'm concerned, I have never had to worry about her attacking anyone because everyone that comes into pekoe's life, child or adult knows Pekoe's rules and they have no problem with it.

Because of Pekoe's age and the heat I have had to cut back alot on Pekoe's outdoor adventures and world socializing.

[Laura]

Jeff we all are well aware that in your eyes it is always the humans fault and there isn't an aggressive or bad tempered chow on the planet...yada yada. But regardless this Chow has bitten people including a family member and that is unacceptable to many people no matter whose fault you think it is. I have seen aggressive Chows since I was 12 years old and I have owned one so we agree to disagree. No sense in you always picking out quotes from everybody and arguing about it. Say what you want..I will say what I want...and tend to your own business. Leroys mom will choose what advice she wants to use and what she doesn't w/out you nitpicking and arguing everything that is suggested to her.

[Jeff&Peks]

Jeff we all are well aware that in your eyes it is always the humans fault and there isn't an aggressive or bad tempered chow on the planet...yada yada. But regardless this Chow has bitten people including a family member and that is unacceptable to many people no matter whose fault you think it is. I have seen aggressive Chows since I was 12 years old and I have owned one so we agree to disagree. No sense in you always picking out quotes from everybody and arguing about it. Say what you want..I will say what I want...and tend to your own business. Leroys mom will choose what advice she wants to use and what she doesn't w/out you nitpicking and arguing everything that is suggested to her.

If arguing is what you want to call it. As always i'm just trying to save the Chow, the shelters have enough Chows with out putting idea's into peoples heads that their Chow is going to kill a kid. Not everything a Chow does is a world catastrophe and a soap opera issue. Don't any of you people have kids, now thats a soap opera issue. For some reason People insist on living a drama filled life, People thrive on problems. if nothing is wrong lets create a problem and screw up the Chows life. Again i'm speaking in general, not the poster.

You have never seen an agressive Chow becouse there are none so since you have never seen one and I have never seen one what seems to be the problem here, Oh my could it be a human problem. I wonder where Chows get thier bad rep.

this problem is nothing that a baby gate and a little teen educating won't handle, that Chow is not going to attack a kid.

[youngwh2]

Hey,

I have read all the responses and some of the replies had some good advice. I am by no means a professional trainer or behavorists but I have had 5 chows (3 boys and 2 girls). I currently have 2 chows (male and female) and a female GSD. Alot of what dogs do is a mystery at times and we seem to think that we can decipher how they feel at certain times. I think we all can agree that Leroy does have an issue with dominance. From what you say, it sounds like he sees you as his alpha (since he listens and responds to you only) and everyone else as just another pack member. Like it or not, that is how dogs see us. Someone has to be in charge or they will assume the role. Once that happens, it is pretty hard to reacquire that status. Like I said above I have 3 "kids" and they will follow me no matter where I go. I feed them, walk them, give them their treats and lack of a better word, scold them when they get two big for their britches. I have never hit them (although at times it doesn't sound like a bad idea) to discipline them. If they give me that look (we all have seen it) of "I want to be dominant", I quickly tell them "down". Now the 2 girls (Bonita (GSD) is 3 and Mercedes is 2, female Chow) and know the command very well but my boy (Lil Bear) is still learning since he is currently 3 months old. Once they are in the down position I stand right in front of them, to make them look at me. I don't say a word to them, all I do is look at them until they relax. Then I all I do is say "See Ya" and they go and play. The boy, I make him sit and do the same with him. The point to all this is that I am the "Boss" not them. If they give me that look I quickly and decisively discipline them. If they growl at anyone even each other I discipline them. Now I know when they play they will growl, but everyone knows the difference. I guess the key is to recognize the signs and body language they show and quickly correct if it is unacceptable. Hope this helps even a little bit!!

[WeLoveLeRoy]

I want to thank everyone who posted their thoughts. I've done a fair amount of research, and with the lack of time and money for "proper" training, Leroy will just have to go to my room when ANYONE comes over. Ive told my family to tell their friends to call before they come that way we have time to put him in my room. Otherwise they can all wait outside.



I understand Leroy. So lucky for him he will have a great life filled with love. I feel awful for the pups that get picked up because they are so beautiful, their new owner so unaware of the dogs nature, only to get tossed out from one home to another until finally euthanised. That just breaks my heart.

[WildThings]

I have two that have to just be moved to private rooms when people come over so I completely understand. I don't think either would bite anyone, but it's just not worth the risk. I would suggest keeping a leash by the door. When people come over, it may be easier to put Leroy on a leash, then move him to your room. That way you have more control over getting Leroy safely to your room (without the shoo'ing to another room, which I know you said was a problem), and Leroy can see the people come in. Once everyone is in the house and things calm down a little, you could even put the leash back on and bring Leroy out to meet your guest while still being under your control.

[willowchow]

As for company-I always put Willow in my room set up with her water and her stuff when I have company or parties. She's my dog, not there for others to touch or annoy, whatever they might do. She's also much more comfortable away from these situations where she isn't confident or leary being around new people.

For the family-I do use NILIF and it really saved me in the beginning. However, there are some issues that I think you might be having with Leroy that this won't address. If he is being resistant to leaving the room or getting off something, put a leash on him and guide him off. This way nobody will get hurt. And, if he knows these commands like "off" and "out" and he's not obeying them, he needs stricter NILIF which means he should be working for everything and no privledges like sleeping on the bed or furniture--he's got to earn those back. It really does help with the attitude they start to develop when they think they are able to do what they want. You shouldn't have spanked him, but you also shouldn't have gone kissing up to him after either. He thinks he's King Leory and now you've just enforced that for him.

I have to also be honest with you in that you've let this go on for much too long. The first bite and he should of been separated from company. I love my dog too, but I don't let that blind me to the fact that she could/would be very dangerous around the wrong people, in the wrong situation. These attacks sound severe and they will only get worse if he's allowed to "practice" them.

Anyway, I hope this isn't too harsh. I'm just trying to explain this in an honest way. Good luck with Leroy, I'm sure with some different rules in place and some NILIF things will be just fine.

Lori