Chows as service dogs

[applebear]

First of all, I am new here...hello, and nice to meet you all.

I got my first chow when I was 13 [35 now] and my second when I was 16. I have NEVER connected or bonded with a dog like I have with a chow, particularly my second Chow, a red male. I currently have a chow/husky mix named Rolyx, who never seems to have a bad day...happy, happy and loves everyone. And early next week, I will be getting a purebred cream chow puppy, yet to be named.

I am on disability for some mental illnesses [therapist feels PTSD, as well as other issues], and I was thinking how my dogs comfort and help me feel more secure when out in public places, as I have a lot of anxiety and will tend to stay home over going out. When looking it up, I learned there is a such thing as service dogs being trained to help the mentally ill too. They aren't trained as much to do the physical things, so much as helping a person feel more safe and secure out in public, including positioning themselves in front of a owner to give distance between other people. They are also trained to learn your signs of having problems with anxiety and able to calm you by distracting you in some way. They are trained to do a lot of things from being at home, to going out in public.

Knowing our chow, I know they wouldn't usually be picked as a breed to do service work because they aren't always the best in social situations. A kid running up behind my dog and smacking it on the butt, may not be a good thing and so I have had to really put myself into perspective that this won't be possible with a purebred chow. The upsides of my purebred, is he's a baby and I could get him socialized...but can chows get socialized enough where they can do that sort of work? The only other upside of the pup is his breeder does all the health testing and his future is a little more predictable than my chow mix health wise. My chow mix however, would seem more suited other than one worry and that is his focus. He is very focused on me inside the house [I seriously can't move without his attention], but outside....he has a hard time. I am wondering if this is too set into him to be able to consider him either. The downside of both dogs is there is no way to guarantee they can be service dogs at all, as in I'm quite aware there's a lot more that goes into one than just having a dog and often it takes going out and picking one specific for it.

So that's where I'm left standing. The chances are slim no matter what as it is real expensive to train the dog, but figured I would ask people who knew the chow best what they thought. I know it's a long shot, but either way...I hope it's ok to stick around and get to know you all and your lovely chows.

Here's a picture of my current boy, Rolyx.

[Cam Atis]

I haven't met a service dog personally. But like you i have read a lot about them and they are of different breeds. I have read a seeing eye dog (Labrador Retriever) and various other breeds such as GSD, Jack Russels as therapy dogs or owned by epileptic owners and they warn before the epilepsy kicks in. Sigmund Freud - Psychologist doctor - have always brought with him his purebreed Chowchow during therapy sessions with his patients. He thought the dog calms his patients. So maybe just maybe , a chow is up to the job also. If you will get a well balanced pup personality wise and get lucky by picking up an intelligent pup. Dogs can be dumb you know.
Chows in general have difficulty getting cozy with strangers. Is fiercely loyal and protective of his owner and would stand between his owner and the perceived threat (a person, a dog, or a car etc). A chow is more focused on his owner most of the time than the rest of most dog breeds. I hope experienced owners will respond to you here.
Dogs have that extra sense that we dont have - regardless of the breed. So any breed can be a candidate. Find an intelligent pup for you. And look for chow parents that have an open face - not scrunchy type - as it will help him see more by having a clear peripheral view if you intend him to be a working dog. I guess you have to do several trips to the kennel and assess how the prospective puppies react to you when they see you. A more outgoing pup is to me a better choice.

[PCC]

I don't know anything about service dogs, but I found this site which is pertinent to your needs. The FAQ will probably answer many of your questions: http://www.psychdog.org/

[Piff Poff]

One of the posters that used to post regularly on here has a chow as a service dog. I can't for the life of me remember her user name though. Someone will be along who can though!

[Ursa's daddy]

Applebear, I can see a chow being a service animal for a person with PTSD. I am not sure how one could be trained, but I can see it. If I win the lottery, I will call you, and we can rescue and train chows. (Don't get your hopes up, my luck is not very good.) In my travels about, I recently met a woman with a standard poodle which was a service dog trained to recognize seizures. I had my two out this week, and they were doing reasonable. They were a bit slow with the sit and lay down, but they had the public fooled. Someone asked if I was training them to be service dogs LOL. I am going to get on my soap box for a moment. We have many members of our military returning with PTSD, and we owe them far better treatment than they are receiving. IED's are causing terrible injuries. We have hundreds of thousands of animals being put to sleep every year in this country for no other reason than there are not enough homes for them. This country incarcerates thousands of individuals for non-violent crimes. It seems to me that for a small sum of money, and a considerable amount of compassion and dedication, we could take our unwanted and unloved animals, combine them with some of our incarcerated (and probably unwanted and unloved) citizens, and train service animals for our military vets and other citizens in need. It looks like a all around win to me.
My apologies to all, I will relinquish my soapbox.

[Rio]

Ever thought of going into politics Ursa's Daddy? I don't think you would struggle to pass that law/bill, as far as Chows for service dogs I would have no clue, the dogs chosen for specialist work tend to be the labs and spaniels and other such breeds, but I guess in the canine world with the right candidate anything is possible. Good luck Applebear with your recovery and I hope you can find that special canine assistant to aid you in a speedy ( I know mental illness recovery is never speedy but I hope you understand the sentiment) and more stable lifestyle.

[Cam Atis]

Ursa's dad, you have a sense of humor. Your wife must be lucky.
Still have a laugh when you said you like to adopt another chow and you and her had already agreed you are out of your mind and she would still ask that same "are you out of your mind?" question. hahaha.
Anyway, chows can be therapy dog. Any dog can. Its just a matter of picking the right one for Applebear. I think it is a good site that PCC has suggested. I mean I have my hopes that a chow is up to the job. Good luck to Applebear.

[Sarahloo]

I am on disability for some mental illnesses [therapist feels PTSD, as well as other issues], and I was thinking how my dogs comfort and help me feel more secure when out in public places, as I have a lot of anxiety and will tend to stay home over going out. When looking it up, I learned there is a such thing as service dogs being trained to help the mentally ill too. They aren't trained as much to do the physical things, so much as helping a person feel more safe and secure out in public, including positioning themselves in front of a owner to give distance between other people. They are also trained to learn your signs of having problems with anxiety and able to calm you by distracting you in some way. They are trained to do a lot of things from being at home, to going out in public.

Call me overly optimistic, but I think a Chow would have no trouble doing all of this. And there wouldn't be much training required either. All these things come naturally to a happy, confident dog! My Newfoundland did all that without a minute of training. Just pick a girl with a lovely temper and you're all set! Training your dog will get you a lot closer to recovery. And with two gorgeous dogs in tow, you'll be forced to interact with people, 'cause everyone will ooohhh and aaahhh over your little cream puff and its big brother. They will be a shield to you, formally trained or not, either way. One at each side, and no harm can come to you!

[applebear]

Cam, as for choosing a pup...it's all ready done [I did check shelters first, but all they had were adults that didn't get along with other dogs]. I choose the pup before knowing about service dogs, otherwise I may of choose different. Regardless...I will love the pup no matter what, even if he just keeps me company at home. I think it was wishful thinking more than anything, but I will see what happens.

PCC, thank you for the link. I did just find it last night and it does have tons of info. It doesn't specify breeds, but it can be any breed so long as they can do what is expected. Some people have had children run up behind a service dog and hit it, and the dogs must not do anything back. Though, I find myself wanting to say, "Control your kid, my dog behaves better." lol

Ursa, I could see a chow being good for PTSD in the aspect a lot of times they can be calm and good about not being distracted. They aren't going to want to go greet everyone or other dogs as much [least my past chows never did], and they will be content by your side. Mental health dogs also require less physical work, which may also be better for the chow. But you are very right on the thousands of animals being put to sleep when they could be a lifesaver to so many. My Rolyx was a shelter dog, I would use him if I thought he could be....but then we have that whole sticky training business [lotto, right] and I'm not sure he'd be suitable. From what I understand, the trainer is very expensive. You can train them yourselves, but even though I know a lot about training, I wouldn't feel confident to that extent...they have to be next to perfect for public places.

Rio thank you for the kind words, I do appreciate it...Just take it day by day, right?

[MissV]

aaaah what a lovely idea!

I cant see my slush puppy being a service dog tho. The only service she can provide is being an attractive floor rug

Its no secret that dogs can pick up on different stresses in humans. Just today I took Slush to the groomers for the first time and because i was stressed, she instantly freaked out. I wasnt showing signs of stress physically - but emotionally I was a wreak as I was worried they wouldnt be able to handle her and vice versa.
She sensed it, she freaked.

Its amazing what they can pick up - its like ESP!

[Piff Poff]

Haven't had time to read all the replies, but I have just remembered a lady coming into the store I work in with her service chow!

[Ursa's daddy]

@Rio, Politics is the USA is a disgusting display, especially in this election year. @Cam, my wife thinks my jokes are corny. I can testify that my two chows have tried to help me. In 2009, the company where I worked filed chapter 11, and started laying off workers. Soon after that, I lost my very good friend and companion, Waldo my cat. My world was going down hill fast. No doubt that Ursa and Malachi could see this, and they must have discussed it. My life became fixing the house in Savannah so that I could rent it and hopefully stop hemorrhaging money. I was inside painting the ceiling, and the dogs were in the front yard. They started in with this "Daddy come see" bark. I was trying to finish, and wasn't interested in what they saw. They kept it up until I finally decided if I wanted some peace to finish my work, I would have to go look. There in the street was a 4 week old kitten. I picked it up and brought it in. Malachi carefully checked it, and the painting was over for the day. From time to time I have posted a picture of a white cat, Yoda, who is that kitten. My two chows took good care of him because they wanted to help their daddy. There is a long list of little things that my chows have done that have shown me they are wonderful loving dogs. Applebear, good luck. I do think chow would make good service dogs.

[Victory]

Melanie's Khana is a service dog and a full breed chow. The first step in training a service dog for anything is CGC certification. This ensures they know all the basic commands, and are good with being in the public and interacting with people. You can begin this with taking him/her to puppy classes, then on up through classes. You want to talk to trainers and your own thearpists about your needs for a threapy dog. A chow would be a perfect choice for a personal threapy dog for someone with PST. The bond between a chow and owner is very tight and intense, exactly the right kind of relationship needed for psychriatist needs,

The key to teaching any dog is if they 1 are open to play and rewards for performing any action. and 2 to be able to really communicate to them what you want them to do.

Chows need this communication to learn well, They get a bit frustrated when they don't understand what is wanted so it's going to be very important to work with trainers who know what they are doing, and who also understand chows well.

[Rory's Dad]

Maybe i didnt follow the thread so well, but Victory called it right if you are truly looking to have a service dog...my thought after reading the original post was that you might be thinking more toward a therapy dog...forgive me if i am mistaken.

Service Dog for a chow is a really big bit...it can be done, and i have seen it. But this tends to be a loyalty and dedication towards is owner, and not something that is usually a shared venture. Therapy dogs, on the other hand, visit with others and provide an uplift. A well socialized, friendly chow can definitely excel at this. My current dog is an absolute flirt. Just today he slid down the stairs twice trying to go visit my daughters house guest when they went upstairs...picture it...full speed up the steps, halfway he figured out he didnt know how to climb stairs, and slid all the way back down. Not just once, but twice before we put the gate up so he didnt hurt himself.

Now, not every chow would be suitable for this, but that could be said for practically any breed. They can be very warm and loving.

The link provides AKC a basic background for the purpose of therapy groups. The listed groups tend to gear more towards certification, and of course are AKC based, but this might be a good starting point for info.

http://www.akc.org/akctherapydog/purpose.cfm

[applebear]

You are correct on the purpose of therapy dogs, however they weren't what I was talking about. There are several types of service dogs, but essentially all of them serve the same purpose...to help the disabled, mentally or physically. There is two types [that I am aware of] for mental...one is emotional support service dogs and then there's mental health service dogs. Emotional aren't in the same category as the others, they are not allowed in public places or anything like that. I think they are however protected by the fair housing act law...where they are allowed in housing that normally wouldn't allow pets. Mental health service dog was what I was looking at, and someone linked a good website for it above if you want to check it out. They would be the same as any service dog, only trained for more mental challenges...they can be trained from anything from reminding you to take your meds to going out in public, grounding you or even to distract you from hurting yourself [such as self mutilation, etc].

Thanks for the advice Victory...socialization will be hard since I'm not the most social and my house doesn't have much traffic people wise. Puppy classes are another toughy...closest one would probably be a petsmart [assuming they have puppy, know they have obedience] over a hour away and they are a little spendy. A trainer will be difficult as well, especially locating one that knows chows and the special training for service dogs. My area isn't the greatest for that stuff. I may have to look more into it and see if it's even an option. I was thinking along the same lines as you with Chows, as in they do have a very tight and strong bond with the owner...I know my last chow did. He was not the same with anyone else, I was definably his human...but he was not aggressive with public at all. He acted like they weren't there most the time, but when I moved...he moved, he never lost sight of me.

[Fozzbear]

Interesting thread, as I happen to be a psychologist. Fozz is training to be a PAT dog (Pet As Therapy) - all she has to do is have a lovely, calming temperament and be sociable. I'm sure that she will be great at it eventually, but at the moment she still bites knees when she fancies playing and pulls a bit when walking (well, she is only 11 and a half months). I think that being a PAT dog will be her limit; the thought of her as a service dog is hilarious as she is atypical stubborn chow. I'm sure that there are some chows that are up to the task though.
Good luck with your puppy Applebear, they are all therapeutic in ther way.

[applebear]

I agree chows have stubborn down to a art. From what I have read, dogs aren't considered mature until 18 months and until then, it can be hard to determine them as a good service dog or not. Fozz is still pretty young, so you never know...but as you said, they are all therapeutic in their own way. For PTSD, I think they would be fitting because of their unique bonds with their human. I also think the demands on a mental health service dog would be less demanding, as in they aren't going to be expected to fetch you things or turn off lights, etc. They are more there for grounding, security and support...which to me, chows do naturally.

On a side note, it turns out I have to go to a specialist at the end of the month to discuss a surgery...which concerned me about bringing a puppy home right now. I talked to the breeder and she was very understanding as we discussed options, I have decided I will be waiting on getting a chow until I know exactly what is going on at the end of the month.

I also talked to her about chows being used as service dogs...she said she has had several of her chows used for such purpose [including therapy dogs] and said they did well...she said socialization is number one, get them in puppy classes, get a trainer and certification [which is accurate to what I have been reading for service dogs]. She spoke highly of a smooth chow from her, that she bred special for someone to use specifically for this purpose. I am leaning towards getting a smooth myself simply because I think it would be a little better suited having less hair in public places....but we shall see. She only breeds them once a year and it won't be till this fall.

Thanks and take care

[Victory]

Hi. I think you should talk to Melanie about training a service chow. Melanie is a dog trainer and has a lot of expertise in this, she trained her Khana to really help her out as a service dog, (Melanie has RA) She can tell you the best age to start, what to look for in a pup all that sort of thing. She doesn't come to the site that often any more because she has a slow connection, but she might answer if you PM her from the site, she is a member under the name IliamnasQuest look it up and Pm her. Tell her I thought she could help you.

Good luck!

[Ursa's daddy]

Hi all, I know this an older post, but I thought I would attach to it. I took my two down to the animal shelter today......to meet with someone who is trying to set up an organization to provide service animals for military vets. He needs help with training dogs for their CGC, and I said I would like to help train dogs and wanted to discuss things with him, hence the meeting. Since I did not know exactly how to explain my experience with dogs, I figured the best thing was to have a show and tell. It was a 30 minute ride, so my two had gotten over the "we're going on a car ride" excitement. There is a tree outside the main door, and Ursa thought she saw something in the tree. I explained to them that this was no time to clown around, and they were not to embarrass me. I got that "whatever" look and we went inside. Just inside the door is a bench, so I sat down and had the dynamic duo to lie at my feet. There were other dogs barking and cutting up, but my two stayed calm. We met the man, and they stayed calm. People came in and out the door, some wanted to pet them, and that went well. I told them to stay and left them there while he held the leads, and I walked out of sight with a member of the staff. They didn't move. That was good. They were excellent representatives of chows. I was proud of them. He is still working on all the paperwork to have a functioning 501 organization, but maybe by the end of August I may be helping train dogs.

[Victory]

That is so cool Ursa's Daddy, I hope all goes well and this guy can get the org up and running. All that 501c paper work can seem a bit daunting at first, but take it one step at a time, and relax and it will work out just fine. (I've been president of 2 such organizations myself).

I'd like to start an indoor dog park/play ground for them. I saw that they have some in NYC on "Dogs in the City" People can take their dogs to those places during bad weather, and since in the twin cities we have about 6 months of bad weather, it would really help for people who find walking on the snow and ice dangerous and frightening in the winter, (like me, two broken ankles is enough) I'd love to have a place to take them that is inside, where we could walk and walk.

[applebear]

This is why I think a well socialized chow would do fairly well, I think most would stay more calm and less stimulated by their surroundings...I imagine it depends on each dog too, but I remember my 2nd chow being real good in social situations. He didn't really respond to anyone or thing other than myself when asked...I'm still holding hope I'll be able to do this. May be slim hope, but I got it!

[Cam Atis]

Have you made any progress as to finding a chow for a service dog? Cassie is so clingy to me whenever I am around. And same story goes to other chow owners where their chows tend to keep an eye on them. Cassie usually hang out in area where she can see both areas at the same time.

[applebear]

I have a breeder selected, and was going to get a pup just before summer hit but turned out I needed surgery, so we put it off until I could get through that. I am leaning towards a smooth chow now, as it is important to keep the hair well groomed and I think a smooth would do better with activity. Least that's what I think in theory.

[Cam Atis]

Oh okay. Did you have surgery already? And did you find a smooth coat prospect? Such is not common in my area. They are easier to maintain (coat). I dont know if it is common in yours.
if cant have that luck of finding one, I guess you can look for a chow parents with open face so as to be able to function well. DM Farms I saw such kind. I know they are frowned upon coz they are what is called as puppy farm but since you are on a search for a particular kind, it helps that they have a few kinds of chows instead of having no choice. Get the pup at 8 wks and you'll rear him from that point. He wont remember much of any abuse from the previous owners if there was. Only problem are shots and worming coz with such number of dogs it might be overlooked. But if you ordered prior to birthing, you can follow up on the schedules, isnt it?

[applebear]

Yes just had the surgery last week and recovering quite well. And yes, the breeder I am going through has both rough and smooth, though she only breeds one smooth littert per year. Her dogs are closed face, however I all ready choose her and put a deposit down before I even thought of using him as a service dog. She says 5 pups from her breedings have been used for service dogs, and all did very well. She has bred her smooth specially for someone requesting it for a service dog. I do agree the closed face may not be as suited, but I can't go back on it now and I think or hoping that since I don't need high maintenance tasks done [ie bringing me objects, turning on/off lights, etc] and really just need the dog for grounding and security, etc...that this will work out ok. Socialization is going to be my hardest part...I don't go out a lot in social situations that would allow a dog even. I am still trying to figure out that part before I get him, which I am not for sure when this will be either...I will be calling her late this month or early next to see when she thinks her next smooth will be and if I remember right, I think she said something about fall.