Alpha Male's

[Swerve]

Hey All,

Merry Christmas and New Years
Winston is now 8.5 months old and doing well. Since day one he was quick to try and assert himself as alpha male with our 10 year old chow cross. Duff is a little weird in he is a alpha male dog but will do jack to assert himself. He will never back down and be submissive, but will not attack or be forceful.

So when Winston from day one would assert himself Duff would just take it and growl back, maybe after 10 minutes of being the play toy, he might finally snap and go for a fur grab around Winstons head. Winston then goes a bit more playfull and may continue annoying Duff or just give up.

About 2 weeks ago I noticed the remains of a small small scab on Winston’s forehead, I guess one of Duff’s nip’s hit home. Well tonight found a fresh one from today or opened up from yesterday.

I have heard many a story that the old dog will remain alpha male status, will then loose it to the younger dog, possibly a few changes between them until finally old dog gives up the title.

Mainly wondering what Alpha dog stories we all have and any way to speed up the process and avoid unwanted vet bills ? I have also read that I shouldn’t help Duff or interfere as Duff needs to tell off Winston himself or otherwise they both won’t work out there pecking order.
Well that’s all for now ? Happy New Years for tomorrow !!!!!!!!!!

Steve

[Victory]

When I brought my first two males home, (they had been my mom and dad's first) MingToy was 10 and LiChi was 5, MingToy was the alpha, LiChi the omega. It had been that way since my mom and dad had added LiChi to the family when MingToy was 5. My mom passed away, my dad lived in a nursing home by then, and my brother didn't want them, so rather than have them pts, I took them and moved them about 1500 miles from Vancouver WA to Minneapolis, MN. And one of the results was that LiChi decided to move up in the pack. This was probably because of the move, my being a first time chow parent and his hormones, both he and MingToy were intact males.

There were some pretty intense fights, which I not really understanding the dynamics interferred with, never any blood, (both of them had so much fur the fight would have had to go on longer for any real damage to happen). Until finally one night, they got into it and I couldn't get to them to break it up, (it was 2am and they were on another floor of the house) by the time I got to them, (2-3 minutes max) the fight was done. LiChi was the new alpha and they never fought again, they never even lifted a lip at each other or gave dirty looks or anything. LiChi was alpha, I fed him first, then MingToy in another place, LiChi got his leash on first, went through doors before MingToy and MingToy got up and moved if LiChi wanted to walk somewhere. MingToy relaxed and let LiChi do 95% of the guard duties, squirrel chasing and rodent control, while he would come to me for serious back scratching and cuddling.

Now that I understand the process better I know I could have begun by doing for LiChi first a little sooner and therefore reinforce his role as alpha between the two of them. But then I had to fully mature males, your little Winston isn't mature yet, and I would personally not allow him to try it just yet, he could get hurt by your older male, this is the time when older males will really stomp on younger ones because the younger ones try to move up too fast. Now is the time for you to really assert your role as the only real alpha, and make them both behave. If you have to seperate them when you're gone I would, it's better than coming home to more than a small bleeding wound. Two males can fight until one is seriously injured or worse so this isn't something to take lightly.

The most important thing is for you to recognize all the instances that can start a fight, Winston trying to walk over the older dog instead of going around, trying to go in or out a door way first, dirty looks, especially that sideways thing they do out the corner of their eyes as they try to slink past. Trying to snatch food or eat first. One thing to do is feed them seperately, the older dog first then Winston somewhere else, (out of sight of each other is best if possible). Eventually the older dog will drop in posistion especially given his age, but Winston should be older first or it will only continue to be a problem between them. Remember a good alpha is a calm, caring, beneviolent leader, Winston isn't old enough to be those things like my LiChi was.

[Swerve]

Victory,

Thanks for your post ! I learnt a few new ones in there as well.

Back from puppy school we learnt to feed Duff first and Winston is great. He never goes near Duff's bowl etc. The putting leash on first one was new so thanks again.

For the 99% of the day ( I work remote alot so I watch) they are fine, normally late in the evening Winston gets frisky and moves in on Duff. Also 2-3 days ago Duff did a very Alpha male thing which we were pleased (just remembered this, this is probally the wound source). Gave both dogs a raw lamb bone, Winston finished his knuckle ends first, sat there barking at Duff as he was still going. He tried to steel Duff's bone and they actually fought for the first time, I mean Duff stood up for himself (read above 1st post, Duff never fights) and actually fought. No dogs actually backed down and we broke it up in the taht 10-15 seconds in getting to them.

Still Duff is still very Alpha male, we gave Duffs bone back to him and he lay on the grass chewing it, Winston circled like a vulture waiting. We both agreed to be carefull with high valued treats in the future. I would agree also Winston is to young to take the throne but what age woudl be acceptable ?

Even though Winston is a Smooth coat they are hard to locate wounds as that undercoat is so thick But I guess it is alaso good protection

Steve

[DOHMAN]

When I brought Teddy home at the age of 8 months he tried to be alpha male over out white girl chow. She is 55 pounds he is 40. Both were nine months.

Lets just say it lasted about 2 seconds until allie had his little but pinned in the corner fearing for his life. She wouldn't let him move for about 5 min. Now they are best friends and he doesn't mess with her.

[dizzy]

i have a 3 year old male chow bungle,i then bought another male a year after having bungle. at first bungle was scared to death of the lil pup .i had to break them up about 3 times nothing serious just snarling ect they have never bit each other bunlge is alpha and stays alpha when they toy fight barney just rolls on his back hes now 1 year 6 months, ive never had a problem with them .i always feed bungle first give him treats first and stroke him first maaking the younger dog feel second best its woked with me they eat out of the same bowl togther and everything its great.

[Victory]

When I brought Teddy home at the age of 8 months he tried to be alpha male over out white girl chow. She is 55 pounds he is 40. Both were nine months.

Lets just say it lasted about 2 seconds until allie had his little but pinned in the corner fearing for his life. She wouldn't let him move for about 5 min. Now they are best friends and he doesn't mess with her.

The dynamics between males and females are very different than between two males or two females. A male should ALWAYS submit to the female. A male who doesn't has very severe problems. Firesong has ruled over two males, Darkwind and Dreamdancer, oh and both the rotties who lived next door, it was completely hilarious to watch her put both 125lb monsters in their place..I've always said that if she wasn't spayed I'd be up to my eyeballs in puppies cause she is such a flirt! She's a girl and she knows how to use it.

Male/female interactions are different and far more harmonious than female/female or male/male interactions, which can and do become dangerous from time to time.

[Victory]

i have a 3 year old male chow bungle,i then bought another male a year after having bungle. at first bungle was scared to death of the lil pup .i had to break them up about 3 times nothing serious just snarling ect they have never bit each other bunlge is alpha and stays alpha when they toy fight barney just rolls on his back hes now 1 year 6 months, ive never had a problem with them .i always feed bungle first give him treats first and stroke him first maaking the younger dog feel second best its woked with me they eat out of the same bowl togther and everything its great.

MingToy and LiChi were like that for five years, MingToy was the boss, LiChi the omega, it was only when they were moved to a new house, new family and new owner and that LiChi was five and MingToy was 10 that things changed. Don't be surprised if in 7 years Barney starts trying to move up as Bungle becomes an elder chow. It's normal and natural, even now I have a feeling that if Firesong wasn't a girl she would no longer be alpha.

[Sirchow]

A male should ALWAYS submit to the female.

I wonder what to think of our two when I read that. Is it because they are not both chows? When we first got Bramble, Alfie (a very small Cavalier King Charles) was terrified of her because she was bigger than him and she knocked him down and stood on him and had no respect. Gradually she learnt respect and calmed down anyway and as that happened he began to stand up for himself more. Now when it comes to chews etc he chooses first and she will never take his chew. He has a ferocious growl and will run and hang on to her cheeks to get rid of her. When they are outside she still runs into him and he is a bit scared of her and will ask to come in again often. They are pretty evenly matched and will both respect each others food and never steal but in the house Alfie will never submit to Bramble unless she is running and using her weight.