IT happened

[janet]

ok guys i know ive read tons of posts on this when it happens to other's chows, buit when it happens with your own i kinda went blank....
heres the deal. we were all in my room me the kids and the chowkids, playin with their toys.normal. all of the sudden, out of no where luna went at biggie and started attackin him.,THIS HAS NEVER HAPPENNED. of course i panicked and could not stop it for a bit. i forgot what i should or shouldnt do from readin all of the posts, so i finally separated them with the baby gate for about 10 minutes. then like nothin happened , they are fine.
im thinkin the jealousy factor came into play. you had to see, how biggie wouldnt even fight back and he is much larger than luna. i guess i know who wears the pants in that relationship.
anyway, lately luna has been a little weird. i'll explain.
she hasnt been eating as usual. not as much as she should.
she has been biting her paws.( it think it could be allergies). no change in food.
and a little growly lately. not at me, at the kids when they go to pet her somnetimes.
could it be a hormone imbalance??? thyroid thing????
i know i know, that all these things individually dont seem like anything, but when you add them up, perhaps they are a sign of something bigger?????????

need some advice, PLEASE. anyone???????????????

[Boogie and Linda]

Oh no. I am sorry this happened to you. My first words of advice are to remain calm and don't overreact to everything they do from now on. They will feed off of your stress. Secondly, I think you should take Luna to the vet for a check-up if you think there may be something off with her. If you think she is okay, then this episode could just be stress brought on from the holidays. I know there have been lots of changes to my chow kids routines this week and it is showing in their attitudes. You mention Luna has been growly around the kids so maybe it is just too much togetherness for her. Good luck and try and remain calm and should another fight happen, try to stop and think before reacting. It makes it a lot easier to break them up vs. panickng. I know, easier said than done.

[Jeff&Peks]

It may have been one of toys, even though Pekoe never paid attention or barely even looked at Onyx she was afraid of Pekoe and would always hide if Pekoe made an appearance I bought Onyx a raw hide bone that turned out to be her prized possession she never chewed on it but carried it and slept with it, the bone was never out of her site. one day I let Pekoe out with Onyx expecting Onyx to hide as usual but instead Onyx ran for her bone hide in behind a tree then full out attacked Pekoe, Pekoe could have cared less about the bone she never even looked at it, when we finely got them separated I brought the bone in the house and Onyx went back to hiding from Pekoe, it was the prized bone that set Onyx off she would kill for that bone.

Or it could be a health thing going on from what you said about not eating.

[Auddymay]

She could well have allergies, or she could also be licking to release stress. Lily does that, she is genuinely itchy, but she also sometimes licks from boredom or stress. Think of a kid twirling their hair in nervousness. When an altercation happens, it can be in various degrees of severity. Mine are over fast here, and loud voicing will stop things. Then you have like Vicky, with fighting to the death. It is un-nerving. The best and only advice is to structure things a bit. If there is toy jealousy, toys need to go up. If there is food or treat gaurding, well, that is a subject better worked out in longer than a paragraph. I guess you need to go through what happened step by step, and identify any triggers. Once you think you know the cause, change things. It is worrisome, seeing changes in Luna. Keep an eye out for other things changing, so you can tell the vet at that inevitable visit.

[vicster605]

Un-nerving...... thats for sure, isn't it?? I am sooooo sorry to hear this happened and I swear it will catch you off guard just about every time. I would make sure this isn't a health issue with Luna first. I would take her to the Vet. Also I would make sure that the kids know that if this EVER happens again that they need to get OUT OF THE WAY. Mine know to get ON the bed if in the bedroom or to get as far away from them as they can, such as leaving the room. But from your description of what happened and with Biggie not fighting back.....sounds like whatever the issue is, was resolved between them. The problem at my house with my girls is once the fight starts and Kyra ALWAYS starts it.....Kearra won't give in or back down so its ON until I break it up or one dies....Size doesn't matter, Kearra could care less that Kyra outweighs her by 30 something #'s.
It could very well have been the jealousy factor or since she wears the pants in your furfamily she may have thought Biggie was getting something she wasn't or FIRST and SHE is supposed to go first. Who knows.....I can't figure out what happened with K & K last time they got into it, could have been the jealousy factor as well since we were doing about the same thing as you guys only we were looking at pics instead of playin' with toys. I would keep an eye on them and make sure this is over.....but its a wonderful sign that Biggie didn't fighting back. I wish Kearra would let Kyra jump her, GIVE IN and not fight back then it would be over......but not at my house LOL To break them up I have always (and this is just what works FOR ME) used a door.....I drag them to a doorway (they usually are fighting so bad that NEITHER notice I am dragging them )I grab Kyra who is usually on top by her back end) because they have a serious hold on one another BOTH go with me) I use the door to separate them by using the pressure of the door.....they have to let go because of the pressure of the door then they are each in a different rooms when I am finally able to shut the door....I've never been bitten or never have come close to being bitten so it works for me. But I have tryed just about EVERYTHING to separate them and that is the ONLY thing that works for me. HOPE you don't have to worry about any of that and this was just a ONE TIME thing. Let us know what the Vet says.....I know you will feel better if you take her. I agree with Auddymay, a bit of structure is in order until you figure out what is going on.
LOL Linda girl......Wish I could figure out how NOT to panick.....I think, react and panick at the same time LOL I can usually break up a fight in less than a minute but I panick & shake for at least 2 hrs after

[vicster605]

Maybe I shouldn't have been the one to offer advice here LOL Lord knows I'm just a first time Chow owner who has had way more experience in this than I EVER wanted.......but I sure do feel for anyone else when their much loved furkids have issues with each other I so hope someone else can help with advice......hate it when I open my big mouth and everyone else shuts up

[sweetpea]

We had a close call the day after Christmas. I had my grandkids (ages 3 and 5). While playing with Andria with her my little ponys, Gracie decided she wanted to play too, she sat in the middle of our game. I kept trying to get Gracie to move but she wouldnt, so I grabbed her harness to give a little nudge trying to get her to come sit by me instead of in our game. I must have pulled her fur or the harness maybe pinched her, something happen and she let out a little cry. Princess came running to see what was wrong, Andria went and stood next to Princess complaining because Gracie was in our game. Gracie looked at Princess with the evil eye and growled. I grabbed her harness with one hand, tried pushing Princess back with the other (who was being stubborn because she knew what was about to happen and she will not back off). I yelled for my husband to hurry, come get Princess. Andria was right there, had Gracie jumped Princess right at that moment she would have been right in the middle. Gracie got a little time out then she was fine.

Gracie will attack when she's frustrated. Most of the time the signs are there. The way she stands, the evil eye she gives to Princess, then the growl and its seconds we have to react. One thing I've learned is, we have to keep it together when it happens. Mine know I totally disapprove of that behavior. Normally I can clap my hands and scold them and they will go off to pout somewhere. Other times if I'm not quick enough to react, a fight will break out. I keep a water bottle close. If they go into a fight I will spray them. Not a soft mist either, more of a stream so they can feel it. They will seperate but will swing back to continue the fight. The seperation is enough time to quickly get them into different rooms. Gracie is bad to hold a grudge. Two hours later may be ready to pick up where they left off. I use the water bottle again to reintroduce them. I rarely have to use it for that anymore. She watches the bottle and settles right down. We've had our share of fights in the last 3 1/2 years. A couple have been with no warnings at all. Just a reaction of jealousy or frustration on Gracie's part. Most of the time they can return to the same room before the end of the evening, other times they've had to be kept seperated for a week at a time. After the last weeks seperation is when I decided they are going to cut the crap and get over it so I used the water bottle for reinforcement. It worked and I've been using it ever since. Get Luna checked out by the vet, make sure there isn't something wrong.

[kiwani]

...anyway, lately luna has been a little weird. i'll explain.she hasnt been eating as usual. not as much as she should.she has been biting her paws.( it think it could be allergies). no change in food.and a little growly lately. not at me, at the kids when they go to pet her somnetimes.

We've had several ice storms lately, plus the load of rock salt (often containing toxic additives) *does* irritate their paws and can cause pain or sores between their toes, etc. Licking the chemicals on their paws can even cause digestive upset. If you haven't been able to exercise them as much because of the storms, or if they've had a harder time finding their favorite place outdoors lately, that could further increase stress, on top of all the other holiday stressors. Also, if they are off their regular toilet schedules, it can also affect appetite. If they'll allow, rinse their paws after walks, because there's still a lot of chemical residue on the roads/walkways.

Best wishes...

[fillyok]

I'm wondering if it could be because of the holidays? Ping (aka Miss Bossy) has been a little more high-strung for the past few days. She and Tod got into a little snit yesterday morning. I worked 12 hour shifts all last week, so we had very little time together (awake), so I'm assuming they're all a little hungry for attention. Maybe Luna's trying to tell that you're working too hard and need to spend more time with her (and Biggie). I hope things settle down for all of you.

[Jeff&Peks]

What Kawani said makes sence, If the snow and salt air can rust out the bottom of cars I'm sure in time it has to cause some irritation to the paws. When I lived in Hawaii just the salt air alone caused problems. Walking them in the rain or when they get wet they start knawing on thier paws.

[Victory]

I'd try washing the feet when you bring them in; I work for the main company in the world that manufactures the deicing salt and it's NOT just salt there are other chemicals added to it. I've noticed this year that Firesong doesn't want to walk on it at all,she tries to keep all four feet off the sidewalk, when there are drifts of snow she'll walk in them and be okay, (she whines when she's walking on the side walk with the salt and sand and she's got pretty tough pads)

I'd take Luna to the vet though to get a blood and maybe urine test done, remember urinary tract infections can make them grouchy and touchy and are a lot of times undetectable in the females. And I agree with Kiwani about the lack of exercise, the streets here are a frozen ice rink and I can't take mine out as much as they should get and they are both going stir crazy. I'm thinking of putting them both on their long leads and letting them run and chase each other up and down the hallway tonight and every night, they have to be on leash in the building but no one said how long those leashes have to be....hehehehehe.

[janet]

Thanks everyone. I really appreciate allof your input. Iwas beginning to think the same thing about the salt on their paws. Also I was thinkin it could have somethin to do with the christmas tree as well.
After their "episode" yesterday they have been fine. I took the toy away that they have been arguing over.
Today luna was tryin to initiate play with biggie nd I stopped it in fear that they might get in to it again.
I have a can filled with pennies all ready if there is ever another brawl. Luna HATES the sound of it.
Ill keep you all posted. Next week I'm gonna make an appt. With the vet.
Thanks again. I luv you all.

[Victory]

oh, and I have noticed that 98% of the time, the males don't fight back, at least that is what I've observed with Darkwind and Firesong and now Firesong and Dreamdancer. she goes after them with everything she's got and they just turn away or around so she only gets mouth fulls of fur. If she did manage to grab skin and hurt Darkwind he'd growl and then chase her but not attack back. Dreamdancer will yelp and then back away and refuse to be near her until she licks his face and makes up to him. It's really weird....

[KathrynH]

That's funny you say that, because Buddha wouldn't fight back either. And Annie would be just downright mean!

[Jeff&Peks]

It works the same with males and females in humans, The female says #%$#$%%$$#$$$$ the male says, yea right and walks off, the female is right behind him saying ##@#$#@#$%%$##$$$##&^%^%$%%$*7^% and on and on and on and on. I think there is a term that is used for both female dogs and female humans, I can't remember it though, its right on the tip of my tungue starts with a B.

[KathrynH]

Jeff, I love the way you try so hard to endear us women on this forum to you...your are just so charming

[Jeff&Peks]

Jeff, I love the way you try so hard to endear us women on this forum to you...your are just so charming

That wasn't meant to be offensive it was an observation, I was watching King of queens when I wrote that and relating the Chow male/female relationship to Doug and Carrie's relationship. I have great respect for woman, when I take them to Taco Bell on a date I always let them supersize the order, If its a special date I pick up a rose at 7-11. I'm a romantic at heart.

[janet]

Wat jeff, no big gulp? Lol. I under estimated you.
Today my parents nd sister nd my two nieces came for a visit. Needless to say I was a little on edge. I was concerned about the furkids gettin over stimulated nd buggin out again. THEY WERE ANGELS! I was so proud of them. They only met my lil nieces when they were puppies nd havnt seen em since. They don't see my parents much neither. The girls were a little scared of them at first but once they got all purple kissed up they were buddies. Luna did her usual couch potato thing and sat next to them on "her" couch. Lol.
Mr bigz acts like such a big shot at first, barkin nd backin up but after he gave them the sniff test, they passed. Lol.
My dad took it as aggression. I said he was just doin his "job" according to biggie. Had we been in the house when they got here he would have been much calmer at first. He's a totally different chow when we're outside.
Ok so I had to brag.
To be continued........