Small Brag

[Rowlee]

Jeff, what are you saying? That those of us on the site who post pictures of our chows and talk about the little things that our chows do and/or God forbid, bought our chows from a gasp – breeder, are shallow, uncaring people who don’t care about chows that need a home and the numbers that have to be PTS. This is most unfair. No everyone can deal with a rescue chow. Breeders have their purpose, the continuation and betterment of this wonderful breed. There are lots of bad breeders around but there are truly wonderful ones too.

I don’t believe what Carla is doing is right for one minute either, but don’t say that those of us who did buy from a breeder because we wanted to be as sure as possible that we were getting a healthy, health tested chow with a good temperament and perhaps, gasp, maybe even wanted to show our chow, are somehow bad people or care less about the chows out there that need homes because it's not true and it's not fair.

[cheriekynb]

Carla, congrats to you and Ember Flame. I love that red headed girl of yours. Sid says "kiss kiss"..

[Jeff&Peks]

Never said that, the post was probably worded wrong thats not what I meant and you know better then that so your just complaining to complain, What i meant was i could just post pictures of Pekoe and ingone the Chows needing homes but I don't, the Chows needing homes is more inportant to me then a picture of Pekoe. There's nothing wrong with posting pictures of Chows and what they do but the minute someone post about a Chow in a shelter or being PTS for no reason don't complain if someone disagrees, that Chow in the shelter means as much to some of us as our own Chows do. What do you expect to hear when someone says they want to breed 6 litters a year when you have others spending everyday trying to save them. There's differant people with differant views on this site so expect disagreements, life for Chows/dogs is not all in the Land of OZ People need to be aware of that and not just turn their backs on the problem and only complain when they don't want to hear about Chows being dumped. If you don't like it then don't comment on it just ignore it and continue praising and sympathizing with the people dumping and killing their Chows.

My Complaint was the 6 litters I didn't say anything about the certs nor do I even know what they mean so if you want to complain about not jumping for joy over the certs tell it to Red Dragon or Melanie.

Is this what you want to hear, congratulations on the certs the Shelters and Rescues will be relived to hear their cages will be filled with healthy Chows...Better?

[Red Dragon]

Hey, don't tell her to jump on me! Normally I would congratulate anyone on a health cert on a dog, but with Carla's breeding practices I just can't bring myself to do that, so if somebody wants me to congradulate her they have a long wait coming. I did give congrats to Laura on her CERF exam, but more important is that she has done the other tests with the joints that are far more important to the breed, and she does minimal breeding, certainly not cranking puppies out by the dozens and running adds for unborn pups from less than desirable backgrounds.

[Layla]

If I thought that being rude to Carla would save a few chows I'd do it Jeff! However, there will always be those people that want to buy from a breeder & yep, they need education on what constitutes a reputable one BUT does being rude accomplish that? I think it's more likely to make people leave the site, or not post when they have a behavior problem that long term makes them give up that chow. I hate to see that. Also, it doesn't seem to have changed Carla's mind about how to breed, despite what must be (or certainly feels like) the 100th time you, Sam & Melanie have had this argument with her.

I think what Rowlee posted was pretty accurate to be honest. Whilst the chow in need section is less popular than some of the others, it's also the hardest one to visit when you have limited resources to help, who can blame people for that? I can't take anymore right now, I've only just paid off Milo's medical bills, now have Alf's to get though. I have to focus on them, give them everything I can, as I did Milo because they are my responsibility & always will be. People arn't always turning their backs, they are just doing what THEY can at the moment.

"And anyone who is promoting Carla and her breeding practices should take a step back and really think about the associations you're forming." I’m not really sure what you mean by this Melanie. Most of us were simply saying we were happy that Ember had passed her prelims. Is that ‘forming an association?

Is this what you want to hear, congratulations on the certs the Shelters and Rescues will be relived to hear their cages will be filled with healthy Chows...Better?

Not really, it's not what she meant & you knew that.

[Red Dragon]

Layla, you are right, we keep trying to pound it into Carla's head that the way she is going about this is just wrong, but she obviously just doesn't get it. I don't look at it as you are associating yourself with her by saying congrats, but I do worry that some of the other members may get the impression that she is breeding the way it should be done when people say congrats, in my opinion it is far from that.

[RHENEGADE CHOWS]

I am so excited to announce that Ember Flame passed her OFA prelims for her Hips with a good! and we expect her OFA of her heart to be affirmed too.
Very exciting
next we are going to test her thyroid and next year we will do a full spectrum of hips patellas and elbows!
Just had to share the small brag as I am So elated, but not surprised really. She's as excellent as I expected her to be Kudo's Bob!

Carla

BACK TO THE ORIGONAL TOPIC... and stay there please... Argue via PM please before this goes to far thank you...

Im happy Ember passed her OFA... congrats....!!!

sigh... here we DONT go again.
1) thanks Chris for trying to bring order.
2) I have not now nor have I ever bred 3, 4 ,5 or 6 litters a year. 2 I am guilty of and yes from Belle. We have hashed that.
3) No tie was witnessed with Belle, just the mere fact Micah broke out of his run and was even near my deck had me suspicsous. she is NOT looking pregnant as she'd be due in less than 2 weeks. As I also had similar suspicions with Ember and they were unfounded which is a GOOD thing.
4) I did ask my vet to send off for elbows, hips and patellars, there was a miscommunication and she was already awake when they discovered the error. This was "just" a prelim..." I didn't need for them to put her back under and do more. That'll come in a year, if I don't just go with Penn Hip instead.
5) Once again,some haters, had to take something GOOD I was sharing and bend it and twist it and even out right to try to meet their hate agenda towards me.
6) I love my chows. And my Belle and Bliss are at the top of that list. When they came into my life it was at a time when I was so very blue, I had just lost my Gade. Belle would never be thrown aside, that is some of your sick twisted vision which is very troubling.
They are my life, what happens to them, is very near and dear to me. Just becuase many of you seem to be cold heartless sorry excuses for oxygen depletors, does not mean I am . Taking care of my crew AND their offspring is the highest priority to me. I am not going to keep putting myself outhere for some of you to bash at will.
7) Sam... not worth my time, go buy more hand lotion.
I shared something good, and as I said, it was a very small brag. apparently too small for some of you. Thats what I get for sharing.
For those of you who didnt, I thank you.
9) I won't say ya'll won, because the ones that twisted things seem like real losers to me, but it will be a cold day in hell in before I share any good news on here again, be proud, be oh so proud.
Ohhhh... I finally see where someone thought I was breeing 6-7 litters... how hilarious.... LEARN TO READ YOU MORON!!!! It said Latte was due with 6-7 puppies... grief...
You lot are a piece of work... I start the beginning of the OFA testing, not the first testing, but OFA testing, her PRELIMS..LIKE I SHOULD BE, she isn't pregnant, no litters planned, and you still feast yourselves... TELLING COMPLETE LIES that are made up just to get the frenzy going and everyone believes it.
Well I am very proud of Embers prelims and the only thing so far I am regretting is sharing with such an evil bunch. How funny that just clips of my website were posted, and not the full page. Jeff, you don't seem to get it through your thick head that my chows don't go to shelters. One of the first things I do after placing a puppy is to call local shelters SPCA's and fax them a copy of the contracts, they then know if a chow DOES come in matching the description of one of my babies to scan and call me. Check for yourself, would you personally like me to give you the names of the shelters and spca's I have called and given my info to? Wait.. you won't cause that would be a fact that you would have to accept... GOD FORBID!!! the SHOCK!! Oh wait... lets see, the fact that they are ALL on spay neuter contracts so as to NOT have OOPS' like I had ... OMG... What would that mean???? OH wait... the fact that I take back and go to extremes even paying ransom for my puppies when something DOES go wrong, putting my money where my mouth is... That just WOULDNT WORK FOR YOUR THEORY WOULD IT? They have my info there and know what to look for. They couldnt believe all I do to make sure MY babies are NOT one of the statistics. I seriously think you and a few others on here need therapy, you are so jaded, I fear you are one who would go and do harm to animals in the name of saving them, like the people who burned down a puppymill in a local county, its really scary you know, its not a fact just this feeling I get reading your posts, like you are over the edge. Well, I had my nightmares the first time we went round and round over this that Bliss was beheaded... I am NOT going to let you all do this again. SOME of YOU are in some sick warped way, and will spread your lies and believe whatever the hell you want but ya know what... Your opinion is NOT my reality.
Cherie, thank you, Chris Thank you... whoever focused on the positive bit of news and didnt make up lies, thanks.

[Rowlee]

I was not complaining to complain. I have a right to voice my opinion on this forum just as you do and that is what I have done. That is the way I took what you said, if I was mistaken (which I don't think I am) then I apologise.

I did also say that I do not agree with what Carla does. I did not post my congratulations to her.

I cannot help the chows needing homes in the USA unfortunately I do not have the money, the time or the resources to be able to do that. I know that in Australia we don't have the problem with rescue chows that you have in the US, that's because there are a hell of a lot less chows here, however that does not mean I do not care. I find it very difficult to look at the chows needing a home section because there is very little I can do and it upsets me too much. Layla is right you do what you can at the time. What do you want Jeff to ban all chow breeders? IMO, it is not the fault of good breeders, it is the fault of BAD breeders & BYB. Do you want this breed to die out because you don't want anyone to ever breed again? I have told my local rescue centre that if they EVER get a chow in to ring me and I will try to take it but they've only had one in 15 years!

Is this what you want to hear, congratulations on the certs the Shelters and Rescues will be relived to hear their cages will be filled with healthy Chows...Better?

[/color]
That is rubbish, I did not congratulate Carla on the certs and nor would I. As I have said I don't believe that she is doing the right thing at all but I didn't bag her for it.

Now I'll say this and I will probably get bagged for it - I only want pure breed chows, I will be getting more of them and the one I have currently, well guess what I am going to show him because I am a shallow, heartless person who cares about nothing except how good my pure breed chow looks and how well he does in the show ring!

[Jeff&Peks]

What I said was we will ONLY breed 1-6 litters a year. EVER... that isnt this year, that is any year

Thats all I saw and commented on but good luck with the certs

[kingalls]

What ever message some of you were trying to pass along and educate those of us that you think are too stupid to recognize a BYB is lost in the constant negative presentation.

[Jeff&Peks]

I was not complaining to complain. I have a right to voice my opinion on this forum just as you do and that is what I have done. That is the way I took what you said, if I was mistaken (which I don't think I am) then I apologise.

I did also say that I do not agree with what Carla does. I did not post my congratulations to her.

I cannot help the chows needing homes in the USA unfortunately I do not have the money, the time or the resources to be able to do that. I know that in Australia we don't have the problem with rescue chows that you have in the US, that's because there are a hell of a lot less chows here, however that does not mean I do not care. I find it very difficult to look at the chows needing a home section because there is very little I can do and it upsets me too much. Layla is right you do what you can at the time. What do you want Jeff to ban all chow breeders? IMO, it is not the fault of good breeders, it is the fault of BAD breeders & BYB. Do you want this breed to die out because you don't want anyone to ever breed again? I have told my local rescue centre that if they EVER get a chow in to ring me and I will try to take it but they've only had one in 15 years!

Is this what you want to hear, congratulations on the certs the Shelters and Rescues will be relived to hear their cages will be filled with healthy Chows...Better?

[/color]
That is rubbish, I did not congratulate Carla on the certs and nor would I. As I have said I don't believe that she is doing the right thing at all but I didn't bag her for it.

Now I'll say this and I will probably get bagged for it - I only want pure breed chows, I will be getting more of them and the one I have currently, well guess what I am going to show him because I am a shallow, heartless person who cares about nothing except how good my pure breed chow looks and how well he does in the show ring!

Thats right I gave my opinion about the 6 litters a year so had you not posted your wrong opinion of what I said I wouldn't have responded to you. I gave my opinion about the 6 litters you and a few others directed your wrong interpretations of what I said to me so I responded. Carla should be the only one responding to what I said. And like I said tell it to Red dragon and Melanie if you want to complain about certs and BYBS.

"What do you want Jeff to ban all chow breeders?"

Yep, and the AKC and all Dog Shows

"Now I'll say this and I will probably get bagged for it - I only want pure breed chows"

Yeah, I feel the same way and I feel purebreds in Shelters should be given top priority, You can't save them all and this is a Chow site so Purebreds should come first. The shelters and rescues are filled with them puppies and adults and all seem to be in much better health then what you would get from a breeder..... You want a purebred from an American shelter? feel free to ask for transport help at anytime.

[luvchows]

Carla, what are you doing about Caesar’s bad hips (the blue male you selling for $0)?

“Caesar has bad hips from being kept in a 10x10 kennel and constantly jumping on his back legs for exercise and probably trying to escape.”

Why not take the $2,500 you are making on this litter and get hip replacement or FHO surgery for him? If you truly care for your chows as you profess, that would be the right thing to do. We would love to hear you brag about that.

[sit_by_the_beach]

Melanie, lets set the record straight on one thing. I did not buy Brody from Lolly at Canton, I bought him from Marjorie Johnstone of Amulet Chows. Margie owns Brody's sire and he was suppose to be pick of the litter for a stud service. And he went back to Margie when he left my place. Canton would not be involved at all in Carla's accusations of someone beating her puppy. Lets also make it clear that Brody was from a farm envirement and was kept outdoors in a sheltered run, if he does in fact happen to have a mark on him it could have very well be because he was a puppy running around acting crazy on a farm. But please do proceed ahead with Carla and the other members education about proper breeding practices.

IMO, breeding of chows or any breed should be regulated by some gov't. agency. Both in the US and Canada. A litter once a year or every two years is plenty.

At least once a month I read of a puppy mill or BYB having their pets confiscated by a humane society in Ontario and Quebec. I am also sick of reading (so called) breeder ads that all of their pups are home, family raised with kids. Do the breeders breed (kids and dogs) for 30 years and have tons of kids or is it grandkids?

The breeders should be regulated and provide a safe environment for the dog. Never mind a puppy running around a farm, the farm should be kept safe. Rural ppl do have a high incident of kids getting hurt or killed in north america. No dog running lose should get injured. Dog owners should be more vigilant of life on their property.

[RHENEGADE CHOWS]

Why not take the $2,500 you are making on this litter and get hip replacement or FHO surgery for him? If you truly care for your chows as you profess, that would be the right thing to do. We would love to hear you brag about that.[/quote]

Carla, what are you doing about Caesar’s bad hips (the blue male you selling for $0)?

“Caesar has bad hips from being kept in a 10x10 kennel and constantly jumping on his back legs for exercise and probably trying to escape.”

Why not take the $2,500 you are making on this litter and get hip replacement or FHO surgery for him? If you truly care for your chows as you profess, that would be the right thing to do. We would love to hear you brag about that.

You are an idiot... He doesn't need hip replacement you moron. His bad hips is the fact that they are worn down slightly, he doesn't limp or yelp and still jumps higher than any chow I have ever seen. You are NOT a vet, you are not his vet, you have seen him, you have not seen his xrays and you are not qualified in any way to give any type of medical advice. He is neutered and on arthrogen for lubing joints and preventing inflamation, he is also on a very good diet which supports joint health, chicken, natural source of glucosomine. You must have this sick distored image, like you seem to always have, of him limping around pitifully... you seem to down right CRAZY. I would NEVER do a hip replacement on a dog that DOES NOT NEED IT. Should he need it I would NEVER have hesistated to do it, I actually took out a loan to have Jazz's surgery done, and being is how I am getting ready to intern at my vets office I wouldnt even need to do that with Caesar. He gets what he needs and more. I cannot believe how crazy that is... you automatically ASSUME things...Why don't you come visit him? I will be nice.. come on.. come visit all my crew. I will make you empty your pockets for sure and wipe your shoes with bleach, but otherwise I will actually be nice... as best I can. And if you can't come or are scared to show your face here, then by all means why not talk to people who have met him. contact me privately I will certainly make that happen.
Now for your free genetics lesson. 2 parents bred without HD, from parents who don't have HD either, does NOT mean it will have offspring that are without HD . Ok this will probably be way over your head so try to follow. You can have 2 parents with perfect hips on xray, parents before them good hips too, HOWEVER what you DON'T see is if their genotype is heterozygous or homozygous for HD or any other heritable disease. Homozygous dominant means, NOT having NOR carrying the disease (AA), Homozygous recessive is having the disease full blown and also being a carrier (aa). Parents who may have GOOD hips can also be carriers this called heterozygous (Aa). Results from a Heterozygous breeding (Aa) x(Aa) gives 25% chance of having offspring that are homozygous dominant, Not having nor carrying the disease (AA) a 25% chance of homozygous recessive FULL BLOW disease and carrier (aa) and a 50% chance of having offspring that are carriers. The ONLY way to know this is NOT from an OFA xray but from knowing the genotype from mapping the dna for the genes/alleles, for that breed. Like they did with people for sickle cell. The best a person can do is breed good, (and by good I don't mean the ratings) hips, good thryoid, good eyes, good heart, good everything to like. With that you still stand a 25% chance of producing offspring that has an issue. I am in a college biology class and have just passed 3 exams and have an A average, I am pretty sure I get the concept. I also know I have sent out dozens of emails to DNA and genetic facilities looking to see if they can isolate the genes. Wouldnt that be awesome to be able to swab a dog instead of taking thier blood, or putting them under anesthesia and KNOWING their complete genetic makeup, what they do or do not carry. You can breed a Aa to AA and get 50 with the genotype of homozygous dominant, AA and 50 unafflicted carriers Aa, but NONE will be afflicted. You could (but shouldnt) even breed aa to AA and get only carriers but still NONE afflicted... So most of us who have have "good" dogs even great dogs, still stand a 25% chance of having offspring from their dogs that have "whatever disease" they are are homozygous rescessive for, and 75% chance of having completely healthy unafflicted. And I am preaching this to an anti breeder group who could seriously care a less about any of it...
So don't go dragging MY CAESAR into ignorant unformed diatribes and viscous attacks. I have dozens of people interested in Caesar, and yes he does have an adoption fee. So far someone wanted to keep him on a 5x7 slab of concrete, NO, or they had children under 10, NO. or a guard dog, or shipped to Hawaii, etc etc...I could have placed a dozen times over if I just wanted to "get rid of him." I could also have put him down if he was a "bother." But you don't seem to get it through your sick thick heads that I actually deeply care and look after my puppies, grown and small for their ENTIRE LIFE, maybe its just so foreign to you. SO until the PERFECT home for him presents itself, then he is home. He is loved and brushed and cared for. SO the jist, Caesar is NOT in pain, I understand the genetics of it, I explain the genetics of it to ALL my puppy parents. .... This has become a complete waste of my time, seriously... it is so exasperating dealing so called people with such extremist views... (not all of you)... It takes away precious time from my life that I could be spending with my dogs and kids. I cannot believe I even cared to share Embers news, or anything else. I have never in my life come across such a disfunctional group of what I feel is mentally unstable people. For those of you who have posted negative, out right lies, I have to tell you, my inbox has been swamped again with people who find you to be nuts and they FEAR posting because they want to try to enjoy the list without being harrassed by those they feel are .. to quote "crazy." Its people with extremist views like some of those on here, that snap and hurt others. I have no time for hate in my life. I am about positivity and protecing what I am responsible for and educating others to do the same, owning my mistakes and moving forward, which I have done. Believe the lies spread before you or find out how gullible you were.