Koda not minding :(

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:19 am

Well, after all of this talk about off leash freedom and my bragging about how good Koda is doing, seems like I have spoken too soon. I don't know if it's because he is upset about Molly's presence or just that he is starting to learn to push his independence or a combination of the 2, but now he is starting to wander way beyond his accepted limits and is now refusing to come when he is called. He did that to Amber yesterday and now this morning when we were all outside Koda took off to go checkig out the complex on his own. He didn't bolt, but he flat out refused to come to me when I called him. I called him 3 or 4 times and told him to come, and altho I KNOW he heard me, he just ignored me. So I got up and started walking to him telling him to come and of course he kept going the other way. Again, not bolting or running, but he wasn't walking either. By this time I am starting to get frustrated with him, but didn't want to yell at him either, so I followed him and continued to call him and finally he decided that I wasn't going to give up and came to me. Of course he wanted to play with me when he got to me and I told him I wasn't playing, he'd been bad. So we walked back to the house and he decided to roam again. Amber did call him and he came and we were able to finish sitting outside with him staying close like he's supposed to. I'm pretty frustrated with him, but don't want to show that to him since I know he is doing some adjusting right now too and has his nose out of joint. I hate to go back to limiting him to his leash or a lead because he was doing so well before Molly got here and I don't want him thinking he is being punished because the puppy is here. But I can't have him doing that either? Any suggestions Melanie or anyone else? He did play with Molly while we were outside. He still won't let her any where near him, but will play chase with her. I know he is not happy at this point... and I know he has to adjust too. Usually when I get up before Amber, he lies out here in the living room with me and waits for Amber and Sam to get up. This morning he slept in by Amber's door. He isn't going without attention, if anything we are going out of our way to make sure to give him attention. Sam is taking the new puppy just fine. No problem at all. <sigh>

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:35 am

Re: "Of course he wanted to play with me when he got to me and I told him I wasn't playing, he'd been bad."
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Why should he return if he's going to be scolded when he does? You can't expect him to think like a person. You have to think like a dog. : )

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun May 07, 2006 8:39 am

That's true... should I have praised him for coming to me even after he ran from me? See, that's where I get confused. When do I scold and when do I praise? I don't want him thinking that I am going to be happy because he didn't mind me. So where do you cross the line? Maybe I just don't understand.

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:04 am

Re: "should I have praised him for coming to me even after he ran from me?"
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Coming to you should always be highly praised. You can't hold a grudge, can't expect him to want a dose of 'negative vibes' from you when he already has freedom. You mentioned feeling frustrated with him too, but you have to take into account that all the 'stress chemistry' of just having a new pup around *does* affect his attention, focus, and even increases energy levels. It's not that he decided to be "bad" because Molly arrived, he's just dealing with different stress levels right now.

sweetpea · Post by **sweetpea** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:17 am

Gracie started off so good, she wouldnt wander far at all when I'd take her to this field behind our house to practice with her off leash. Then overnight, she went deaf. I swear! Its like the more comfortable she becomes with the surroundings, the more likely she will put on the deaf ears. But yet we could practice in our fenced in yard and she was perfect.

Another thing was, and I had noticed this with Princess to. There came a time where both discovered they had strength. They learned just how powerful they really were and would practice that strength. Now I have Gracie walking right again, with a collar or the harness (I feel better with the harness on her) but she has learned the art of the deadman drop, and has also learned how to tighten up her leg muscles to put the brakes on.

Around here the law is no dog can be off leash. I just use a really long lead on most of our walks so she has plenty of room to explore and if she gets the notion to run, she can. Then when the soccer field is empty I take her in there so she can actually play. Run off some steam.

I offer no training advice, it's obvious I'm not one to do that when I have a little girl who thinks nothing of laying down in the middle of streets to enjoy the scenery. lol. I would guess though that King Koda does have some jealousy issues going on right now. Maybe you need some one on one time with just him. Take him somewhere while Amber watches Molly. This might show him that he's not been replaced.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:27 am

That's true Kiwani. He is dealing with things his own way and I need to think about that when dealing with Kodie. I hate the fact that his nose is so out of joint. I knew there would be some jealousy, but I honestly thought he would react to Molly's arrival more like Sam has. Instead he is being stand offish and it bothers me. That is not my Koda... at least not with us. What can I do to make things easier for Koda and at the same time bond with Molly and give her what she needs? Guess this chow mommy STILL has alot to learn.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun May 07, 2006 9:44 am

Later on today, King Koda and I are going walking by ourselves.... with his leash. LOL He loves that and that will give him his own mommy time. We really have gone out of our way to give him extra love and attention so he knows he hasn't been replaced. But I need to remember that he is a chow and they have their own ways of dealing with things. I watch him interact with Sam and they are buds... altho they do the I am more dominant than you are thing occassionally. But watching them all outside today, Koda wouldn't let Molly near him, but then he'd walk over to Sam and play with him and it was almost like he was telling Sam, well my friend, what are we going to do about this? Koda really needs a bath, but have decided to put it off for at least another week. I'd rather him look grungy then have him stressed because of the bath on top of everything else. On a brighter note... he is actling a little more relaxed when Molly is around. He's laying next to me now and Molly is right beside him playing with a stuffed animal and he isn't freaking like he was. <sigh> My fur kids.

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Sun May 07, 2006 10:36 am

Re: "I hate the fact that his nose is so out of joint."
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I guess I don't see it that way : )

You've had your heart set on a pup for some time now, even had some rescue Chows in your home recently, (but I don't recall exactly how Koda acted with the rescues.)

You've had several weeks of yearning while waiting for Molly, and weeks before that putting into motion getting a pup. You've been looking at Molly's photos for weeks and were already bonded before she arrived.

You can't expect Koda to instantly feel what you already feel, especially because the pup is *already* challenging the pack hierarchy. You can't expect Koda to be acting like Sam either, because those two dogs aren't alike to begin with. : ) Koda might be putting on a show of cool alpha, while spastic Sam is begging, "play with me Molly, pleaasssee!"

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun May 07, 2006 11:02 am

OK, now I am going to need help Aunt Kiwani. Will Koda eventually come around to like Molly? Also, is there something that I should be doing with Molly to to help Koda keep the pack hierarchy and stop Molly from challenging it? I want to do what's right by both of them and not just one.
Koda did just fine with the 3 rescues we had. They were all 3 males to boot, so go figure. He played with them. He had no problem being close to them. With Molly, it is a whole new ball game with him. What can I do to make all of this easier for him? By the way, I am going to get him some more B-complex in town today. He's been off it since we ran out and he was doing fine. But if he is stressing again, then he needs to be back on it.
You're absolutely rigt, Koda and Sam are totally different. Spazy Sam will play with anyone or anything. Koda will not. You're also right about my also being bonded to Molly before she got here. I guess I was just hoping for the best possible scenario with Koda in all of it, and now that it hasn't happened the way I expected it would, I don't know what to do.

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Sun May 07, 2006 11:38 am

Re: "Will Koda eventually come around to like Molly?"
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You've already mentioned that he's starting to calm down around her, so just *relax* Nancy, and give them time to bond. They'll work out their own hierarchy too : )

Stay calm, otherwise Koda might think you're upset about the pup being there too

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:57 am

Kiwani.... just a quick update. Koda is tons better this morning. He's acting like his old self, loving and playing with us, and now also playing with Molly. He still won't let her get that close to him, but at least now she can walk up to him and try to get him to play before he takes off. He is playing chase and jump around with Molly and they barked at each other in play this morning. So things are looking up. Koda went outside with us this morning and never left my side. He's in a happy, playful mood this morning. I did start him back on the B-complex last night. Hopefully that will help him get over some of the stress and anxiety he is going to have to go through over the next couple of weeks with Molly coming and now the move to the house coming up.

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Mon May 08, 2006 2:12 pm

Re: "Koda is tons better this morning. He's acting like his old self, loving and playing with us, and now also playing with Molly."
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It's wonderful news, and I'm very happy for you! Now you can relax and *enjoy* the 'baby'

Hope your day went well.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Mon May 08, 2006 3:52 pm

LOL My day went as it usually does... ready to get off work as soon as I get there.

I guess Amber and Molly didn't have a good day tho.

When I got ready to leave for work, I told Koda goodbye and gave him a hug and kiss... and he did his usual big boy thing, wagged his tail and headed into Amber's bedroom. I took Molly into Amber's room and headed out the door. I called Amber on my lunch hour to see how they were doing, and Molly had been whinning off and on ever since I left this morning. Amber said Molly won't let her hold her and was just not generally a happy girl. I told her not to baby her like she used to do Koda. She has to get used to my being gone during the day and she also has to learn that I will come back home at night. I told Amber to make sure she is fed and had water and other than that, leave her alone unless she comes to her to play or be picked up. Amber said ok. So I called later on this afternoon and things weren't any better. I told Amber the same thing again. I pulled in the driveway tonight and Amber came out the door with Molly in her arms and told me... here is your baby. I picked Molly up, cuddled with her for a few minutes, gave her some food and water, took her potty and now she is sound to sleep at her usual place by my feet. Hummm.... and she said Molly whinned all day. LOL My koda gave me big kisses when I finally got sat down, so he is getting better.

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Mon May 08, 2006 4:46 pm

Re: "and now she is sound to sleep at her usual place by my feet. Hummm.... and she said Molly whinned all day."
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If she sleeps with you in bed at night, and at your feet in the day (when you're home) she's probably not developing confidence by sleeping in her own bed. All this whining might just be her being tired, but being too anxious to sleep without you (separation anxiety). Try the routine of leaving some of your clothing (your scent) in her own bed, for day and night from now on.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Mon May 08, 2006 5:16 pm

Molly is sleeping with me and she sleeps at my feet when I am home, but she was asleep both times I called home today. She's away from me playing now. I've been walking away from her all evening and only heard her whine one time. Koda came to me to be pet earlier and he let her come right up to him and play with him while I was loving on him. So my big boy is coming around. I'll keep an eye on her and listen for reactions, and then move her if I have to. I'll also leave my t-shirt I wore today out where she sleeps during the day to sleep on and see if that helps. She is a smart little thing. I honestly think she hides her monkey so the other dogs can't find it. I give it to her to play with and she takes it to the side of my chair out of sight when she is done playing with it. And she knows exactly where to go to get it from. Tell me these chows aren't smart. LOL

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Mon May 08, 2006 6:42 pm

When Bones came to our home, I was hoping that he and Bear would become buddies from the start. well, Bear started growling and showing his teeth and the two would chase each other growling and biting and I was like, "what have I done, what have I done...). I didn't like to see Bear so aggressive and thought that Bones was a little nasty thing. Best advice I was given, was to chillax and let them find their own relationship. I really wanted them to sleep side by side and to never be separate from each other etc. etc. My wonderful fairy tale never happened, but they did forge a friendship after Bear established dominance. They slept like book ends, the mirror opposite of each other about 4 feet apart. Bones was always trying to get the attention away from Bear and onto him and I'd have to push him back and get Bear close to me.

The reason I tell you this story Nancy is to relate my experience of what I wanted and what actually happened. I think that they will figure things out and bond in their own way. I'm happy Miss Molly is doing so well and Koda will keep adjusting, just be patient!

Debbie and Bones

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Mon May 08, 2006 7:58 pm

I appreciate the insight Debbie. I was like you. I figured since Koda was so young and he and Sam are such pals (altho they do the dominance dance occasionally) that I would bring Miss Molly in and Koda would accept her with open arms (paws). LOL Koda and Sam sleep close together and like I said, usually get along beautifully. They constantly wrestle together and it's almost like they have this secret language. If I didn't know better, I would have sworn that Koda went up to Sam yesterday and whispered in Sam's ear about how he felt about the whole Molly issue. You are the third person (Kiwani and Molly's breeder are the other 2) who have told me not to worry about it. Koda will come around and they will work out their pack order. As bad as I wanted a cream little girl and will never regret my decision, but had I known it would affect Kodie like it did, I would have thought twice about it. Koda is so important to me, and I have watched him come so far, I'd never do anything in a million years to make him take a step backward. Two weeks from now this may be all water under the bridge, but that sure isn't making it any easier now. Of course my beautiful boy is coming around and acting better than he was. But that tender spot in my heart for him just got alot more tender when I saw him react the way he did. For him to refuse to come to me to be pet just killed me. But he did jump up on my lap this morning and I have gotten lots of loves and kisses tonight, so I think we are both feeling better about it. He has gone out with me every time I have taken Molly out and stayed right at my side. I scold Amber alot for being too soft with him because of whatever it was he went through before we were priviledged enough to have him here with us. But now I find I am just as bad as she is. When you look into the face of that great big cinnamon furball, you can't help but have your heart melt.