Rats!!!

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Mandy
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Post by Mandy » Mon Aug 21, 2006 2:57 pm

I was kinda thinking more like a baited snap trap in a cage... that way you're not catching larger animals and you don't have to do live trapping. No shelter will take a rat and they are smart - drop them somewhere, they will find their way back.
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Post by Juniper » Mon Aug 21, 2006 4:34 pm

Right Mandy. You've got the right idea. Isn't it something how we never forget those childhood experiences. I remember when my mother would hand me the cast iron pan to kill the rat in our Bronx, N.Y. apartment when I was a child. Those rats were 10" to 11" big. :shock: But I got him. :biggergrin: better than gettin' a beatin'. But then I would cry afterwards sorry that I had killed the rat-even though it was quick.

Kiwani: I realize that you're pro-poison. That was evident when you took my statement out of context and switched the point. Technical writer's I have known are very specific and don't switch the perspective to suit themselves.

If someone cannot afford a caged trap they can also do a lean-two with some old plywood about 1.5 to 2 feet long and enough height to accommodate the rat and the snap trap centered underneath it and lean some heavy rocks against the plywood and other objects around it. That works also. If a animal tries to get to the cheese the fallen plywood will set off the trap.

There are snap traps on the internet that are even more humane and talk about instant kill but I believe they are more expensive.

Also, never wash or clean a trap of blood, fur, etc. from a former deceased one since rats and mice are attracted to the trap from the smell of their own species.

I set mouse traps in my house surrounded by furniture so my chows don't get to it and believe me they have tried. :lol: Troy and Sheena love :x cheese.

Mmmmmmm. However, you can always go back to the cast iron skillet and bangin' it over the rats head. That works too. But then why didn't my mother know about the flashlight in their eyes I would have done a lot less running. :laughloud:

P.S. I'm not suggesting the skillet- just my sense of humor. If you read "Native Son" by Richard Wright, Bigger Thomas did the same thing that I'd done when I was a child.

This isn't a pleasant topic- having to kill mother nature's creatures but then sometimes, unfortunately, it is a necessity.
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Jeff&Peks
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Post by Jeff&Peks » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:51 pm

Who would have thought Rats would be a two page topic. I'm against killing any non-human thing all they are trying to do is survive, just box them up and send them back to LA or New York so they can be reunited with their loved ones.

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Post by chris » Mon Aug 21, 2006 5:54 pm

Can I just say.....

Nemo = Garfield...



:lol: :lol:
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Post by chris » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:03 pm

Jeff&Peks wrote:Who would have thought Rats would be a two page topic. I'm against killing any non-human thing all they are trying to do is survive, just box them up and send them back to LA or New York so they can be reunited with their loved ones.


Oh, so your against killing any NON HUMAN thing... :roll: :wink:
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Post by Jeff&Peks » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:03 pm

What does a whale and a cat have to do with anything? If a Chow can't keep the rats out A cat riding around on a Whale sure can't.

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Post by chris » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:06 pm

Nemo??? Whale??? where did the Whale come into play?

Lets see.. there was Captain Nemo..
and there is.. "NEMO"... the little guppy fish thingy in "Finding Nemo"...

their Cat's name is Nemo... And Nemo reminds me of GARFIELD the lazy fat cat that would make Odie try and catch the rat instead (Odie = dog) because Garfield would be watching his favorite TV show, or eating lazania. (sp?)


:-)
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Jeff&Peks
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Post by Jeff&Peks » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:07 pm

Oh, so your against killing any NON HUMAN thing...


Yep, Why, Should have said being I guess.

Here we go distroying the Rat Thread.


I like my version Better, A cat riding around on a whale chasing rats. I thought Nemo was a Whale.
Last edited by Jeff&Peks on Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Post by kiwani » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:09 pm

Re: "Kiwani: I realize that you're pro-poison.

That's just the presumption you've made. I'm neither pro or against. I take into consideration the person asking the question, and that person gave evidence of being too squeamish for smash-traps, and already had the poison.


Re: "That was evident when you took my statement out of context and switched the point. Technical writer's I have known are very specific and don't switch the perspective to suit themselves."

I took nothing out of context and didn't switch any point to 'suit myself'. Without knowing me, you claimed that "apparently" I wasn't "very aware of bird, animal or mammal habits", and I responded that the whole point of the staked bait cage was to protect other animals, unlike the other advice given. Nothing more than that.
Last edited by kiwani on Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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chris
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Post by chris » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:13 pm

Actualy, me too.. Ok.. so its a cat riding a Whale out to catch and kill a rat.. which isn't in the ocean by the way, its in the back yard.. so its..

SUPER WHALE AND KITTY TO THE RESCUE..
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Post by chris » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:15 pm

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Post by Boogie and Linda » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:17 pm

Unfortunately these exact conversations have been going around here at my house. I am actually against killing animals too. I have been a vegetarian since I was a little child (no one else in my family was but I was the "strange" one). My husband and I just bought a new car and we had to special order one with cloth seats instead of leather because I refused to touch the leather.

My mom is pro kill on everything. She doesn't care who gets hurt. She said this is a war and there may be some innocent casualties and that I need to bring out both the traps and poison to protect my family from disease. I really wouldn't want to catch them alive because then I would have to touch the trap and put it in my car and drive it somewhere and I think I would get in trouble for dumping them somewhere. I don't even want to see them dead which is why the trap is hard for me. I am hoping they live somewhere else and just visit here so when they die they will go somewhere else. I know wishful thinking and I need to grow up.

I just found out that my sister that lives a few miles from here has had them too. They have both traps and poison and she said that they are catching at least three or four a night. Her vet also said the same as Kiwani that the posion won't hurt her dogs or cat. The birds around here are really little so I don't think they would eat the rats.

As for Nemo, Chris, you hit the nail on the head. He thinks he runs our house and that we are here to serve him. You should see the dirty looks we get if we don't comply with his demands. I even have to serve him his water in a cup and hold it for him while he drinks. (If I don't hold it then he tips it over.) I do that three times a day. When he was little the vet told me to put a bowl out (which I always did) and not to give into him with the cup and eventually he would learn to drink water from a bowl. Well after three days he ended up at the vets with a bladder infection and I have been back to the cup ever since. The things we do for our animals. :roll:

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Post by Jeff&Peks » Mon Aug 21, 2006 6:26 pm

Sorry Chris, Can't keep up with them all especially when all I hear all day is Sponge Bob and Dora the explorer with an occasional Thomas the Train mixed in.

Boogie and Linda, In La I see trucks on the freeway from a company called Critter getters, They say they don't kill maybe you have something like that around town, Florida has gator getters, Maybe you have Rat Ridders in Town.

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Post by Juniper » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:39 pm

Get ready this is a long post. :shock:

Kiwani:

When you only take part of a sentence you are taking it out of context. To keep it in context you need to keep the entire sentence, or you are redirecting it to suit your own purpose.

We've gone this path before, when you mentioned why you didn't understand why people misunderstood your intentions.

Continually you take things out of context. These were the entire sentences and responses by you:

Juniper says: "Apparently you aren't very aware of bird, animal or mammal habits - any of them will go into poop or anything to gather some undigested particles when they are hungry or even just out of curiosity and eat the poison." The point I'm making is that poison is never a good idea and it is inhumane. Period."

Kiwani responds: "The "dog-poop bait" is what I was referring to as 'not attracting birds', unlike the other bait foods mentioned."

However you thought your response was:

"Without knowing me, you claimed that "apparently" I wasn't "very aware of bird, animal or mammal habits", and I responded that the whole point of the staked bait cage was to protect other animals, unlike the other advice given. Nothing more than that."

I had just told you that birds will go searching for food in dog poop, yet you responded with this latter statement? You switched the point.

So I further state that apparently you really aren't aware of bird, animal or mammal habits and/or haven't had much experience with wildlife and ignore others experiences and knowledge. Plus redirect the out of context statement to another area.

The following statement you made is an assumption.

Kiwani: "That's just the presumption you've made. I'm neither pro or against. I take into consideration the person asking the question, and that person gave evidence of being too squeamish for smash-traps, and already had the poison."

Your decision to only give one perspective, pro-poison, because they showed evidence of being squeamish for smash-traps is an assumption on your part. The assumption you made is that they are too squeamish for smash-traps. To give both perspectives is the only way to show one is truly unbiased in either direction.

I find it very unsettling that you make no stance on poison/no poison. Even after you know the harm it does.

I wonder, as many on this sight probably do, if you have ever owned an animal let alone have a Chow. It appears to me that you only express your viewpoints through articles that you have collected on the internet with good search engines.

If I stand corrected then let us know what your experience is and if you have or have had any animals.

If you have no personal experience. That's OK. The work you have done in gathering information from the internet and saving others time has been definitely beneficial. Albeit sometimes I feel you appear to search out the worst possible scenarios at the onset. But then, hopefully, it tells others to do their own research.
Jennifer & Sheena

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Post by Juniper » Mon Aug 21, 2006 7:57 pm

Boogie and Linda:

I was a strict vegan vegetarian for 27 years. In the 70's there was a lot of research on the "feelings" of plants and tests were done on their emotions. It was discovered that plants had feelings as well. How true, people who have cancer touch plants and they die. I know I was one of them 16 years ago.

Also, when I bought corn there'd be a corn worm in it who I knew would be dead as soon as I removed it from the corn, since that's all it could survive on. I found my vegetables had so many insects, that I was killing something daily. Let alone, mosquitos, fleas, knats and ants when I would walk on the pavement. I had come to the realization that killing was a part of life whether I liked it or not.

So I understand where you are coming from. But then medicine kills bacteria, fungus...who's to say who lives or dies? What's good or bad? It was driving me crazy until I realized that if I can do the greatest good for the greatest number of people, animals, insects, etc. and survive to the best of my ability without getting sick or needing medicines I could do my part to help.

Anyhow, just needed to let you know about my realization.
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Post by ciaobella » Mon Aug 21, 2006 8:44 pm

My only suggestion would be to do what one of my friends did: go down to the shelter and adopt the biggest, baddest, most scarred up and ill-natured tom cat you can find, and let nature take it's course. Then, you can hire him out to your neighbors. It eliminates any moral issues you might have (it's just another day at the office for the cat), and you'll be saving a cat that would likely be euthanised, to boot.
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Post by Auddymay » Mon Aug 21, 2006 11:17 pm

I agree, a cat might work, but I'd avoid the Toms, they tend to be a bit on the lazy side, saving all their energy for the persuit of females in heat. The most efficient killers are the fertile females. Unfortunately, they kill the song birds too.

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Post by redangie24 » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:13 am

Juniper- this is who lives and who dies...
If I think its gross it dies
If it bites and is small it dies
If it is big and bites for no reason it dies (or I keep it for a pet)
If it smells bad it dies
If it looks creepy it dies
If it makes me or my family sick it dies
If it could possibly carry disease it dies
I reserve the right to change my mind at any time and kill for no reason at all (like hunting)
OOh yeah if it tastes good it dies......
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
Have a Chowfastic Day!!
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chris
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Post by chris » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:30 am

"If it tastes good it dies"... (I second that ;-) )
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Post by kiwani » Tue Aug 22, 2006 5:51 am

Re: "When you only take part of a sentence you are taking it out of context. To keep it in context you need to keep the entire sentence, or you are redirecting it to suit your own purpose."

I took nothing out of context, nor did I redirect. I use reference points to show the reader which conversation I will be responding to. There is no need to keep copying entire paragraphs when they are right above.


Re: "I had just told you that birds will go searching for food in dog poop, yet you responded with this latter statement? You switched the point."


I have no reason to switch points. I already mentioned that the cage would help keep out larger animals and birds. As already mentioned, the dog-poop inside a cage was least likely to attract birds, compared to the cheese, corn meal, and other foods mentioned.

Your negative spin concerning myself, in this and in previous threads, is not going to affect my serenity in any way. If you or anyone else, has a problem with me being a member on this site, please discuss it with the administrator.

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Post by jerryo » Tue Aug 22, 2006 7:12 am

=D= =D= Well Said, RedAngie!!! Very Well Said! =D= =D=

Support PETA -- People Enjoying Tasty Animals :lol: :lol:

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Post by Jeff&Peks » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:09 pm

In defense of Kawani I personally think she's an important part of this site, She's helped alot of people with information about heath issues including myself. I usally don't read most of the post becouse they are to long and I don't understand most of it anyway, I will worry about it when if effects Pekoe. Most of the info that is posted the peson asking the question would never think of so they couldn't do any research it anyway. I also think some of Kawani's post are a little extreme especially when it involves skin problems but she post the info, you make the judgment to use it or not. To me her intent is to help the Chow not to win a popularity contest.

I did't realize rats were such a touchy and populer subject.

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Post by Rogansmommy » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:19 pm

[quote="jerryo]
Support PETA -- People Enjoying Tasty Animals :lol: :lol:[/quote]

I know PETA people who are seething right now. :shock: :evil:

Fortunately, I'm not one of them! \:D/ :biggergrin: Very funny.
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Post by Boogie and Linda » Tue Aug 22, 2006 4:54 pm

I asked the questions about the poison so I feel responsible for Kiwani responding to me. I really appreciate Kiwani's answers as I was becoming so anxious worrying about whether or not the posion the neighbors used would harm Boogie. I agree with Jeff. I don't always understand all of Kiwani's posts but I like knowing the information is there should I ever need it. Traps, poison, or even the cement which the shelter here suggested all have the possibility of harming other creatures. I guess it is up to the individual as far as judging the pros and cons.

Poor Boogie was on guard all night last night. My husband is gone on a business trip for a few days (perfect timing for him) so Boogie thinks he has to protect us even more. He wanted to watch TV with us but then he would run back to his post at the back door. Hours went by before he spotted anything. Poor Boogie when he finally did fall asleep, that darn Nemo would creep around and Boogie would jump up barking crazily. I think he is dreaming about the creepy rats too. After he was up he would walk through the whole house and then come in and give both my daughter and me kisses. He is such a good boy but no one got any sleep last night. Tomorrow is back to school so I hope there are no rats so we can finally sleep.

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Post by Juniper » Tue Aug 22, 2006 6:49 pm

Boogie and Linda:
It was good that you brought up this problem with rats. I have found dead rats out in the open, who knows if they were poisoned or not, they didn't always make it into the walls or burrows to die. I do know that eating a poisoned rat can create havoc for and does kill a cat and/or wildlife. I don't believe it would be any different for a dog. So I question the ASPCA article. It actually depends on how much poison the rat consumed.

It's is just best to avoid the possibility of any pets coming into contact with the rat.

My Sheena is constantly on watch for the rats and barks as well. Spends all her time looking for them and now she's got Troy doing it. Rats are big here and I don't really worry about it- unless someone is poisoning them in the neighborhood. So I keep in contact with the neighbors. Sheena and Troy are inside most of the time. I supervise their adventures outside.

Jeff:
Kiwani appears to want to help the Chow but I also believe she wants recognition. Just look at her post in Hot Spots.

Luckily, I can understand all of the medical postings in very technical detail without any problem. Sometimes I find errors in what she posts, so I always remind people to do their own research.

Kiwani:
The statement you made at the end of your post was a verbal tactic to sway others into the belief that I did not want you on this web site. I actually stated:
"If you have no personal experience. That's OK. The work you have done in gathering information from the internet and saving others time has been definitely beneficial. Albeit sometimes I feel you appear to search out the worst possible scenarios at the onset. But then, hopefully, it tells others to do their own research."

Your interpretation from my statement that I questioned your being a member on this site is rather preposterous and rather an emotional outburst by you.
We are having an intellectual conversation, expressing opinions, making observations. If you choose not to improve your skills, or not try to listen and understand through the intellectual exchange, so be it. I find that challenges bring more insight, more introspection and more research.

I have asked you several times and have never received a response and am asking you again:
Kiwani, what are your personal experiences with chows, have you ever owned one, what experiences have you had with animals?

Oh, Jeff:
You can sometimes tell when a snake is sick if he refuses to eat his meal every 1.5 to 2 weeks, mine went for 14 weeks without a meal, when his tongue doesn't come out very far to smell, when his eyes are cloudy (not when he's in shed of course), when he is losing weight, skin gets a little loose, skin loses its luster or is flaky, wheezes, neck comes out like a frog when it breathes, the inside of its mouth is not a pretty pink, he is listless and not very active when you hold him (since your body temperature should increase a snakes activity level).

Probably a lot more info than you needed but I am verbose. (an understatement for sure. :laughloud: ) [Gee, I hope you read my long posts. #-o ]

Jerryo: That was LMAO funny on that PETA interpretation. See, I got a sense of humor too! Oh, by the way it was "Feng Shui" that you had spelled incorrectly on that other post. Gotta spell those Chinese words correctly also. \:D/
Jennifer & Sheena

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