People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

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Victory
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People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Victory »

This is making the rounds on FB:
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One of my friends on there who has never owned a dog of any kind but who loves to spout crab about them said this:
"Very cute...giving them rules to live by should mean obedience training and certified school. They are a breed to ignore or allow to have lax rules."

I'm afraid I kind of went off on her. One of the things she said really ticked me off, this thing about so-called certified trainers. How many times on this site have we heard of a person taking their chow puppy to a "certified" trainer only to be told, that "chows are untrainable, unstable, will turn on you etc? Or to hear about how the trainer jerked the puppy around, and now the owner has to work with their chow puppy to get them over the fear instilled by the trainer? Now, people are advocating strict and tight training gor pits. Pits are clowns, they don't need even the constant watching our chows do, they rarely try to move up the pack ladder, they aren't a "thinking" breed like our chows. I am SO tired of these fearful, half to completely false things being said about all dog breeds...It is making me more than a little crazy! Okay, preaching to the choir here but I'm sick of it.
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Merlin
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Re: People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Merlin »

we heard of a person taking their chow puppy to a "certified" trainer only to be told, that "chows are untrainable, unstable,
Dog trainers, like ski instructors, and riding instructors come at many different levels of ability and you'll find that the lower the cost ones have more limited ability.
Also ( and this I truly understand), there are trainers, and schools who simply do not have the skills to work with certain breed types, and at the end of the day, it isn't worth their while, because these are niche breeds and enrollement is very low, so it's just not financially viable for them to focus in those areas.

There are many dog trainers that go the a "Walmart type" dog training course and are only able to deal with happy go lucky dogs, and in fact, that is where their large market is. That doesn't make them useless. ( Maybe for some breeds yes, but not for all).

In fact, the core of the problem with specific dog breeds, are the owners in that they often don't even know what to look for in a dog trainer, or how to resource one that "can" help them based on their own breed of dog. It would be nice if you compared apples with apples, instead of what you are saying here.

The point that is missing , is that most people don't educate their dogs.. period... and that's where the problem lays. It really doesn't matter what the breed is to some large extent, people simply don't have the skill to educate their own dogs anymore - they think they do until all of a sudden, they run into a problem. Only THEN do they try to apply themselves to it.. not before. It's fine to raise a killer-Yorkie..( kidding) .. but a large dog, with large teeth is another matter entirely. The secondary problem is that too many people STILL don't know how to purchase a quality dog from a quality breeding house, so the job of training becomes even more complicated, because the dogs are not of sound character or temperament... but even a dog of sound temperament still needs some sort of education. People get dogs for the wrong reasons, they get dogs and in fact should never own a dog, they get breeds that they should not get .... dog ownership with humans is a one way, selfish endeavour that is entirely based on human needs.

While so many people poo poo on training methods, or certain breeds, they themselves, often just through plain ignorance, bestow an equal amount of unpleasantries onto their own dogs through simple trial an error. (( that part they never seem to see). We see it though, because by the time the dog reach the hands of an appropriate dog trainer, the dog is so screwed up it's beyond sad.

The bottom line will always fall into the lap of the owner, who is always the core of the problem.. not the dog.. not the trainers.. but the owner.
Last edited by Merlin on Mon Nov 12, 2012 12:32 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Victory
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Re: People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Victory »

Merlin, I do agree with everything you said except about the quality of the traners. Some of the expensive trainers here are just as bad if not worse than the less expensive ones. However, owners as you said should do their homework. Before I took either one of my two to a trainer I'd want to see that trainer working, observe their methods. I'd want to have a nice long talk with them about chows. And you're right about the dang killer yorkies too, (or killer mini-dashunds, which to me was a mistake from the beginning, dang thing even bit his owner constantly breeding does tell)

I've tried to figure out what the standards are for certification on being a dog trainer in the US or even in MN and I can't really figure it out. Maybe, I'm looking in the wrong places. But it kind of seems to me that most of the ones around here, started at a place like PetSmart or PetCo, or maybe a boarding/training place and then after a few years, joined a training place or went independent. It makes it hard to figure out.

And yes owners have the ultimate responsiblity for selecting a good speciman, (unless it's a rescue/adoption) of the breed or breeds that are the most suited to them and then learning all they can about that breed and what it takes to make that breed a good K-9 citizen and finding the correct trainer to help them acheive that. But people who have absolutely no clue, or experience spouting crap from the US media tick me off. Too many animals are put down here automatically for being certain breeds, too many people can't get home insurance because their dog is the wrong breed, too many towns and cities have BSLs and more are thinking about doing so, and when those laws are passed they make no distinction between well trained, well behavied members of the breed(s) all members are lumped into the same catagory of "dangerous" and all of them are killed.
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Merlin
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Re: People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Merlin »

Most trainers that I know of will allow new prospects to "audit" a class. It's not free, nor should it be, but they can see and judge for themselves if this is the type of training they feel they can accomplish.

By the way, I did edit my blurb about "quality of trainers', because when it comes to niche breeds, there often is no financial interest, because the numbers are too low for these schools, so they do tend to bypass applicants that fall into that criteria.

For example in our case, we are breed specific and only take chows/pei into our school, so it works for us. - but the local dog training center nearby, really has no room for these dogs because their entire training program is tapered to highly domesticated breeds that readily respond according to their curriculum, ( and truly this I can understand).... but.... there are plenty of dog training centers that do work with difficult dogs, people don't understand that this is what they have to look for.

I will say though, that the schools I've worked with or know, that offer "higher" education, in my experience have been able to accommodate unique dogs into a program, and don't turn them away.

Unfortunately for many people who look to solve problems, the training usually entails the person making some substantial personal changes about how they view animal ownership, and how they interact with their own dog. In a great many cases, the person is not willing to understand that they ARE the problem, and they keep trying to manipulate the course or the training method, to serve their way of viewing things, so their success rate is very very poor... so that's why I said, at the end of the day, it really is all about the owner and their capacity to make better decisions for the dog and about their view of dog ownership.
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Tippsy'smom
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Re: People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Tippsy'smom »

Victory, I completely agree with you. Those who don't know dogs just need to keep their mouths shut. And I also agree that pits don't need as strict of rules as our chows do. Snooki is smart about things taught to her, but she doesn't think things through like Dixie and Jasper do.
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Merlin
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Re: People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Merlin »

I've tried to figure out what the standards are for certification on being a dog trainer in the US or even in MN
You could contact:
http://www.ccpdt.org/

They can point you in the right direction for sure.
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Victory
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Re: People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Victory »

Merlin wrote:
I've tried to figure out what the standards are for certification on being a dog trainer in the US or even in MN
You could contact:
http://www.ccpdt.org/

They can point you in the right direction for sure.
thanks I'm checking it out. I'd like to see if I can do the job. My chows are pretty good....
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Merlin
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Re: People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Merlin »

My chows are pretty good....
I'm sure you'll be just fine with the dogs... it's their owners you have to worry about ( remember I told you this - you'll laugh about it some day)
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Cam Atis
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Re: People who don't know dogs should just shut up!

Post by Cam Atis »

The topic called my attention. Victory, that is a strongly worded headline but it drove your point, just a bit harsh. \:D/
I wish those who doesn't know dog psyche should listen up and observe at most/
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