The price of a dog bite

[Victory]

I know a lot of you, especially some from countries other than the US, think some of us are a bit reactionary when we feel that our chows or other dogs could be put in a situation where they may bite or act aggressively. You're right we are reactionary, we are over protective and we do feel like we have to step between them and some person who is either delibertly provoking them, has no clue how to approach them, or is just being a pain. Here is one of the reasons why: http://usnews.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2012/ ... -2011?lite

479 million dollars in insurance payouts for dog bites by home owners insurance companies in 2011 in the US. The average payout is almost 30 thousand dollars. The article doesn't say what happens after an insurance company pays out such a claim. Many times the insurance policy is canceled, if you are a renter well you can live with it, just be careful. If you own your home full out then the same thing applies. If however, you are like most people and the bank actually owns most of your house, then you have to find a new insurance company which because of the claim against your dog is going to be very difficult as insurance companies report these incidents to each other, (it's really a central clearing house but they all have access to it) Often the result of this is that you have to give up your dog before you will be insured again. And a dog with a bite record is normally put down. Now some of you may say, well just don't insure your house. Not an option when you are paying a mortgage usually, there is a part of most mortgage documents that states you must have homeowners insurance.
Also it is getting harder and harder for people with certain breeds to get insurance anyway, GSDs, Chows, Akitas, Pitbulls, Dobermans, Rotties are the most comman breeds that you will have a very hard time getting insurance for your home if you have one of these. I'm waiting for the time when every breed over 20lbs is on the lists.

So you can see why we are over protective and over reactive a little. Most people don't have 30 thousand dollars sitting around to pay off some idiot, (yeah I used the "I" word again) who puts our dogs in a situation that causes the dog to become aggressive.

[Hugo]

Hi
Yes I do understand and thanks for sharing that. I too am reactionary when confronted with a potential situation. Some people have no idea and that is what we have to do to protect our dogs from unneccessary stress that some people can cause. BTW I think you're right about some people outside the 'USA' thinking you guys are a bit over the top, because we often hear about lots of law suits over lots of different things from seemingly minor (to the outside world) to larger issues.

Interesting and disturbing at the same time.

[Victory]

People outside the US don't really understand that in some ways we are one of the most aggressive societies on the Earth, there is a reason why another article pointed out again that we are a rich nation, but we also have more stress and shorter lives than any other industrialized country.

We can play nice, but we can also be mean, and violent at the drop of a hat. One of the ways most people deal with their anger is being ready to sue someone for anything and everything. The ones that don't sue, go buy guns and use them. Getting in someone's face to not get walked on is a way of life here. And right now during this very contensus election year, things are even worse. I think 98% of my fellow citizens have gone mad...I really do.

[Ursa's daddy]

Victroy, you are so right. That is one reason I work to socialize my two. I want them to always be on their best behavior while out in public. Now if you jump the fence or come into the house uninvited, I feel for you.
It should be noted that the expression "going postal" is unique to the good ole USA.

[MissV]

hi Victory :>

I assume this post was put up in response to my comment on the "wow" thread.
You're absolutely right about one thing, an outsider will have a difficult time "getting" what you all go through because, well, its all so very foreign to us!
You listed a GSD as liability as a home owner... I cant even imagine that!!! They're the most awesome dogs!
We all have home insurance here because as you may well know, South Africa is one of the most dangerous countries in the world. We walk around with eyes on the back of our heads - everyone, and i mean EVERYONE has household insurance here as not a second goes by without someones house, car or property being stolen / damaged etc.
The violence is so bad - that every household tries to get the biggest and meanest dogs as security measures. Security companies here as well as the SPCA promote the adoption of pets as companions and alarms.
We're on total opposite poles
Also, if you enter someone elses property without consent, and you get bitten by the homeowners dog, then thats your own fault.
Dogs are only put down in very serious cases here and thats if a dog has killed a human or seriously maimed them.

interesting, interesting... i love all this diversity!!!
ps. i hope your elections go well - we're all sitting here on the edge of our seats waiting to see whats going to happen. After all - you guys pretty much run the world, so we're all hoping for the best.

[Blackbear]

Australia is not too far behind the US in this respect. We are becoming a very litigious society and if your dog bites someone you expect big trouble. In this state on top of possible legal action your dog will be re-classed as dangerous costing you many hundreds of dollars in registration fees plus other restrictions. If bad enough your dog will be put down. Chows would not make that list here though as they are not common.

[Cam Atis]

What can I say? Australians also does "I" word (idiot) quite a lot. Most blokes does. hahaha. Sorry for the joke.

Still, here in my country, most cases of dogbites are resolved by neighbors by having the victim treated. No insurance policy, no litigation, no police. Just plain sanity and a kind understanding that these are dogs and we dont neccesarily have to behave like one and start attacking each other in all possible platforms. If it's a dog dog fight, no victim treatment necessary. MOSTLY it is shouldered by the owner.

Sorry. I can symphatise at best. But could not emphatise. In the same way you might think we are out of touch as we live outside of the US.

[Rio]

Holy cow thats a lot of money! I do feel however that the vast majority of the dog biting problem (everywhere not just the U.S) is lack of education. People see a cute dog and think its ok to approach, or they feel the need to see how much they can tease said dog. The latter then have the audacity to sue owner of said dog because it bit them. I personally feel that all people should be educated on the correct way to interact with any animal. I don't live on the plains of Africa or in the rain-forests of South America but I know for a fact that I would not think it OK to approach nor tease a lion cub that was out walking with its family.
Ignorance and stupidity are some peoples only tools in life and if there is money to be made from it, they will!
My biggest fear is my dog turning on someone, but if I thought he had that kind of attitude he would when outside be muzzled, after saying that any dog can turn if provoked enough so maybe the answer world-wide is;
Dogs in public places should all be muzzled.
Dogs on secure property (ie fenced yard/garden) no muzzle, if you are foolish enough to cross the boundary, you take full responsiblity of anything that may transpire.
I could go on for weeks about this kind of issue but I won't.

[Sarahloo]

Personally, I would never tolerate Loo biting anyone, unless they were threating his or my health. He was the biggest mess when I got him, and yet he understood the one thing I needed him to learn right away: the mouth is just for eating (and he had bitten the husband in the home he lived for a week before they took him back to the shelter and I found him).
If I hadn't been able to teach him, I would have put one of those nice big wire basket muzzle thingies on him. I refuse to be on edge while enjoying time outside with the dog. Life's hard enough as it is. And, as MissV said, dogs pick up on the tension you feel and tense up right along with you.
@ Victory: I guess we only disagree in that there is no excuse for biting someone who doesn't have bad intentions. I don't think that's the big dividing issue you see it as. If a kid pulls a dog's tail from behind, it still shouldn't be bitten. If an adult can't help himself when they see a cute cuddly "teddy bear" (as people like to say) and pets him before they can stop themselves, that does not give the dog an excuse to bite (I think)!
That being said, dog bites are extremely rare over here, because we are just as careful as you are, but without the idea that people are out to get us. I understand what you are saying, and I'm sorry you have to live in the atmosphere you describe. Maybe that is a city thing though, to a certain extend? I can't imagine country people being this tense in this regard. I live in the country too and in my 20 years of owning large black dogs I have never had a single problem with other people regarding my dogs.
It is sad and weird that you have the right to bear arms but not to own a large dog.
I have taught all my dogs that all people are nice! I know that's not true but it has always served me well. Loo has stood by my side when a smelly drunk asked us for directions in the woods, gesticulating wildly and pulling a large black trolley. He was scared shitless (because of his horrible past), yet he behaved. I've made it very clear to him that it is my job to protect him, and not his to protect me. Doggies are just there to look threatening, not to actually threaten! I make sure my dogs are ready to encounter even a total nutjob. I wouldn't want my dog to bite a poor drunk, or a child, or someone who's boundary-challenged. I simply wouldn't. That would be my reason for making sure he doesn't, not the fear of being sued!
Myself, I have been bitten thrice, once at the shelter (so that doesn't count), once as a kid, because I just had to touch a Kuvasz in its enclosure, and I didn't know you can't do that and once when a picked an injured dog off a busy road. So I figure, I've never really been bitten, and I've met thousands of dogs . It doesn't happen here, not reallym because people are responsible without flipping out! I think it's possible, but I may be wrong regarding the US.
BTW: German Shepherds top the biting statistics here. No other breed even gets close to them. Probably the owners' fault (they DO like hitting them), or maybe not, I don't know.

[TyChowgirl]

I have to agree on a few aspects. There are way too many people in this country sue happy or do things just to get money, and it's really sad that the morale of humans in this country is so low they sacrafice their dignity for money. If it's to really feed said family or what not (not that things like that justify bad actions or reactions) then maybe I can sympathize. But when those things put in place to keep us safe just in case are abused and become more common for people to just throw away that priveledge like it's nothing just because they think they have the power, or they need it for drug money, or whatever...gr. Makes my brain boil. I'm not sure I would have been as vocal as Jess in the situation, I would have told them to stop and if it persists, walk away. In that situation if the person would have followed me, yes, I would have alerted the staff. Because then more than forcing themselves in my space and dogs space when forwarned, I the owner tried to difuse the situation and "get away" in a calm manner and then said person persisted. That's invading me twice when I've politely have voiced that we don't want to be bothered with, especially if I've explained the first time the dog was abused and in slow progress training to accept the public as safe. But we all handle things differently to perhaps the same means. I have seen people do things to get money out of people, strangers or no, and they don't care who they hurt in the process. Let me give you an example. I work at a convenience store/gas station (it's a chain popular on the east coastish area) and one day while I was working, another customer had knocked a few tubes of mentos off the shelf and on to the floor. We didn't know it at the time, but we were busy and none of us had been over the counter for a little bit to walk the store. This old man came up complaining he slipped and fell on said mentos, (usually if someone falls, SOMEONE, meaning customers included will see this happen and be there as a witness) and he wanted an accident report filled out and wanted ambulance assistance. My boss and I looked at each other in shock because the man, though old was standing completely upright with a cane, but visibly seemed like nothing happened. So, suspicious, she said she was going to fill out the report, and in the process, my boss looked at the camera. The man can be seen coming out of the bathrooms...saw the mentos, purposely stepped on the the mentos, faltered for a second and regained himself quickly; walked away fine. There was no falling, no slipping. He hesitated in front of the mentos and purposely stepped on the mentos. When he asked what was taking so long, and I told him she was looking at the camera to see exactly what happened, he disappeared. A year later, he comes in demanding what happened with the compensation? and she looked at him and said, "You didn't fall. The video shows you purposely stepping on the mentos and walking away. A YEAR ago." And he left. Not another word. See? People are weird here lol. I don't get it.
That being said, knowing that I have one of the top 10 dangerous dogs to own in the US, I keep a very close eye on Ty at the dog park. He is the only full bred chow (there are only a few mixed that don't frequent it like we do) and he is shy of humans. He has accepted the dog park as safe haven and lets almost anyone pet him now. But it's been a long time with a lot of effort. Still, if I think it looks like he's playing too rough with another dog to another dog owner, I will curb this and put him in time out. My friend laughed at me the one day and said I was too strict and to let him play. But she agreed when I retorted back, even if another dog provoked it and my dog even nipped the other dog in defense, it would be mine that suffered the consequences. I have the chow, not the setter, the labrador, the pointer, etc. mine would be at fault because of breed discrimination and that would be it. So yes, I'm a little more strict with him in public than I should be. But it's for his safety more than theirs.

[Victory]

tychowgirl--I hear you. I've seen a person on a bicycle fake getting hit by a city bus, none of us on the bus could believe it, the guy rode in front of the bus just as it was pulling away from the curp and laid it down right in the path. Not only was this dingbat trying to get a law suit ready for the city but he would have also gotten the driver fired. But too many of us on the bus saw it and were ready to testify against him.

As far as my dogs are concerned I do look out for them, because people will try and provoke them. Once I was walking down the street with Darkwind, we're minding our own business he's being his sweet normal self, when this man walking towards us, jumbs in Darkwind's path, Darkwind was walking on the grass in the park on a slight incline, I was on the sidewalk and their was plenty of room for this person to go around both of us. But nope, he jumps in Darkwind's path, in his face and starts roaring at him like a bear. Poor Darkwind was startled but did his normal thing, which was to look at the guy, then look at me then sigh and move away from the man. I saw this same guy do the same thing to a neighbors two Rotties, luckily for him I was actually able to hold one of the Rotties so my neighbor was able to contron the other one who went balastic.

Darkwind is the one that taught me the final lesson in that some humans are a total waste of the air they breathe. Firesong would never have tolerated such behavior, she doesn't like drunks and will avoid them at all costs. When I walk my two now I carry my nice heavy walking staff, mess with us and I'll hurt you. When walking my dogs I'm paying attention to them and enjoying being with them, I don't want to interact with another person, I don't even want to acknowledge that person's existence. I am NOT a social person and therefore don't really like people all that much.

[Victory]

What can I say? Australians also does "I" word (idiot) quite a lot. Most blokes does. hahaha. Sorry for the joke.

Still, here in my country, most cases of dogbites are resolved by neighbors by having the victim treated. No insurance policy, no litigation, no police. Just plain sanity and a kind understanding that these are dogs and we dont neccesarily have to behave like one and start attacking each other in all possible platforms. If it's a dog dog fight, no victim treatment necessary. MOSTLY it is shouldered by the owner.

Sorry. I can symphatise at best. But could not emphatise. In the same way you might think we are out of touch as we live outside of the US.

Sanity in the US is a thing of the past for the most part. And there are too many lawyers so everything is a litigation waiting to happen. The cops would rather deal with REAL crime, so they are good with letting the lawyers deal with it, better to see two parties sue each other than someone taking the law into their own hands and using guns, (which as someone said are legal and easy to get). The problem is the most people in the US, especially those of us who have been here for a few generations are really anti-social. That social nonsense on TV is mostly Hollywood dreams, most of us want to be left alone and stay apart from each other as much as possible. There is a reason almost all of us own cars and use them daily, so we don't have to socialize or even come into contact with others on public transportation. The real truths of our society are hidden, but are there. Which is one of the reasons I've always wondered why anyone wants to move here. I love the USof A don't think I don't. But I'm not blinded to the realities of being an American.

[Cam Atis]

Here's what we outside of US normally go by or stands... We recognise the dog's ability to guard and to attack if necessary (nightfall towards an intruder), in fact we have them precisely in order to have some sort of protector. So we dont show publicly we have to step in front of the dog and between the dog and the stranger. We do it opposite. We let the dog stand in front of us, leash pulled towards us between owner and the stranger VERY MUCH similar to SarahLoo's. Of course at the back of our mind we shall protect our dog but not to the extent that we'll be a role model to our dogs in how to snub a stranger, or an admiring person. Now if the person is admiring the dog, same position, dog in front but we stand near them and let them see us accepting the person's admiration. BUt in general, these admiring people WILL NOT touch the dog for fear of a bite. Which if it happens, no suits will be filed. AND WE WONT ALLOW OUR DOGS TO BITE anyway. We encourage the dog to be friendly to the stranger. Encouraging it to lick and allowed itself to be petted in public. IT really depends on the dog owner's stance, behavior the dog takes its cue from.
Perhaps because litigious lawyers has not yet invaded us so we are in a state of innocence or perhaps we just ignore the lawyers and go thru life in a forgiving way.

I used to answer people's question "Is your dog ferocious?" I 'd say Sure! Yeah! She's really especially in her own yard and Cookie or any dog I was with will looked the part. They play their roles well. hahhaa. When in fact I know deep inside, "ughh!, this one would not even try to bite you! look at the tail , it wags."

Cassie with a chow's natural scowl, I find it easy no words required if she's "ferocious"/ I even find it hard to convince them to "Try pet her. She wont bite. She's still a puppy!)" They'd smile and say "No Thanks! You got a beautiful dog"
Then they leave.

Oh , the other morning, a neighbor's dog walked in front of my drugstore and he saw Cassie and Blue on leash standing by my side. The neighbor's dog is off leash as it is the norm = they went to buy from the market stalls. Well, you can imagine, Blue is itching to have a showdown with the mutt as well as Cassie, great imitator of Blue's. The dog came to us, stepping forward, breaching our comfort zone. My dogs agitated, I pulled back just a little and said to the other dog "Hey! Tssssh! ) and the neighbor was there (thank goodness!) she gave a verbal command so after some stepping back and some stepping forward (to give my dogs some sense of confidence and not hurt their ego- that I approve their "bravado") the neighbor's dog decided to heed its owner and follow her. SHe did not went to grab hold her dog, just a bluff of comin toward her dog and the words " hey! Tssht! No. let's go!" thing and act as if she's going and THAT'S IT. We smiled at each other when they are going though we really aren't introduced formally by our dogs yet. hehehe.
I harbor no ill feelings nor call that lady idiot for not leashing her dog. Cassie has been leaning forward all the time, eager to sniff or fight the other dog but being so young I worry she might not stand a chance to the bigger dog. The neighbor's mutt, he is already pushing us in the doorway of my drugstore = his head carried low in a stance that can be perceived as short of attacking.. Oh what have I got? A toy terrier/minipin mix who has the "BIG DOG SYNDROME" and a puppy 5 months old whose coat are threatening and all Cassie has practiced wrestling with is Blue. Nah! BUt I got worried that dog might actually bite Cassie as Blue is wise enough to stand at Cassie's shoulders while growling. So it's Cassie as cannon fodder for Blue.

[Ursa's daddy]

It is sad and weird that you have the right to bear arms but not to own a large dog.

Thank you, Sarahloo, for the chance to post my "right to arm bears" photo. The legal and political processes in this country are probably quite strange to watch.

Sanity in the US is a thing of the past for the most part. And there are too many lawyers so everything is a litigation waiting to happen.

Unfortunately, this does seem to be the case. I am sure our international members are often wondering if the whole country is a bit daft. Don't worry, this is an election year and there are more examples of US insanity to come.

[Blackbear]

Now that is funny.

[sue]

Interesting how things vary from country to country in the UK your dogs are there to guard the home on my home insurance the last time i did an update a few years ago i was asked what the situation with my dogs was when i said Teddy had passed away.But i had twin chow boys who were excellent guard dogs they didnt put my premiums up.If you have a breed that is considered a good guard dog thats what the insurers like to hear if a burglars gets in to your property or someone trespasses and the dog gets them thats entirely there fault they have no come back on you.

[TyChowgirl]

Sue- See, that makes me want to move over to the UK even more! LOL It'll never happen, but hopefully next year when my husband to be and I have more money and time off we'll be heading across the pond for our honeymoon. I'm hoping two weeks so I can go to each country. Either way, no, it's not that way here, though I wish it was. Having a good guard dog is a liability here and most insurance companies either raise your prices or won't accept you. Chows are on this list.
Ty freaks out when my neighbor comes home because his door is closest to ours (we live in a condo complex) and he gets terribly scary when he alerts. I'll holler at Ty to quiet down sometimes when it gets bad, and I've told my neighbor this because Ty actually likes him when he can see him. He told me with where we live, not to correct him and let him do his job. He said Ty makes the pitt bull my other neighbor had (before the pitty passed on) sound normal. I guess Ty sounds pretty scary lol.

[chowpups]

My neighbor had her yellow Labrador on a electric yard fence and the delivery guy drove up the drive jumped out to deliver to the door the package and her dog bit him. Dog was then quarentined for 10 days ,had to report it to the county, insurance company cause he needed stitches and a tetanus shot and antibiotics, and she got a fine cause her dogs license lapsed within year, so now her home owners have upped the cost to her . I believe she also ended up paying for lost wages too. So after this happened she was told to post signs guard dog on duty, and I took her experience and posted on our yard too just for our own satisfaction . I don't know who told her to do this but it made sense. we have some pool people who let themselves in our yard without my knowledge so I thought this might make them think twice..I worried they would let her out by accident more than biting..

[Rory's Dad]

The signs are a great idea to ward off unwanted guests, but in reality they dont do anything to relieve the poster of legal liability. If the person has a legal right (meter readers, etc), or an implied invite (gardeners, pool boys,etc), then the homeowner/dogowner is still going to be held liable for the actions of the dog.

[chowpups]

Rorys dad you are right posting does not stop legal action against you, it only helps warn of danger..I just wanted it to stop people from opening up my gate and walking into my yard.. And that it does a good job at..had 2 workers here today and both knocked on the door to let them in the yard, and they looked around even when I unlocked the gate.( which even locked they have jumped over before knocking in the past and I freaked out cause Nikki was in the yard at the time lucky for us Nikki wasn't any type of aggressive guard dog only a runner)
I think the township asked her to post it for future unexpected visitors because there is no sign of a fence with the electric fence so people aren't expecting a dog to come charging around from the back and bam you are in the middle of the driveway and your stuck face to face with a charging dog. I have noticed more electric fence co, leaving their signs up that the house has an electric fence. again legally you are still responsible. But thanks for pointing that out, I was a little miss leading..

[Sirchow]

I am reading most of this with my mouth hanging open. My experience is much as Sue says. My dogs are mine, they live on my property which is fenced with a high secure fence and my insurance company see them as an asset and I would love to see someone so much as steal a blade of grass in my back yard. They have a door to the house each at night and many times we forget to lock them but I know how safe we all are. If my dog bit someone out on a walk I would consider it the persons fault as they never go looking for trouble. My pet insurance covers me for £2,000,000 in law suits but I have never heard of anyone claiming on someones pet insurance in the Uk though I expect it does happen as people here look across the pond and think I'd like a bit of that.......

[Chowmomma]

As I am reading all of these informative posts I am inside freaking out because less than an hour ago my sweet baby who has never even growled at anyone and who is normally afraid of everything, I've even joked and called him my emo dog, was provoked and retaliated with a bite to my daughter's face, I was only a few seconds before that explaining to her that he does not like it when she lays on him and holds him down that it scares him. She proceeds to say "like this" and he immediately responded, I was horrified and now I do not know what to do. In no way do I blame my chow, let me explain, my daughter is 26 years old, and knows better. This is the same daughter who a few weeks ago shoved my little black chow off of my sofa and dislocated her hip. I am currently trying to get money for her surgery. Clearly my chows see her as a threat but my problem lies in my brand new baby granddaughter who her and my daughter have been staying with me since the baby was born. She isn't a good mother and I want her to leave however I do not want her to move and take baby....I don't know what to do, I don't trust her around my chows or around my grandbaby...HELP

Sent from my PC36100 using Xparent Pink Tapatalk 2

[Ursa's daddy]

Chowmomma, it sounds like you need to do some human training about proper treatment of dogs. Some people just don't get it, like the TV announcer that got bit by the dog when she failed to listen to the dog's warnings. It is my belief that dogs generally do not bite with out provocation. Now the dog idea of provocation may not be the same as the human, but it makes perfect sense to the dog. People need to pay attention.

[Sirchow]

Sadly it sounds like you have a lot on your hands and while we can offer help and suggestions here for chow problems it sounds as though yours are far bigger than that and the helpless members of your household are suffering. This will no doubt spread to the baby as well I hope there are some authorities you can turn to, to get some help and support for what ever the situation is there.

[Rory's Dad]

I have read it a million times (ok, slight exageration), and have lived it repeatedly. Chows are not similarly aggressive to other bad rep breeds. yes, they will bite, but only as a last resort to protect themselves, property, or family (pack). Given the choice, a chow will take an agressive stance, bark and growl...and give the offender a chance to back down. Once cornered however, that is when it happens.

Your average, everyday, normally sociallized Chow felt it had no other choice. Sounds like your daughter put that upon the dog, and it sounds like this is repeated behavior.

My daughter is assumedly much younger than yours. Our Rory "tolerates" her handling of him because he adores her. I stress tolerates. If anyone else picked him up and put him in an upside down, vulnerable position, he would react. My older son, who does not reside in the house, likes to rough-house with him, and my daughter mimics this. We warn her against this, and do not allow tug-of-war type games...and all for the reactions by our pup that you have unfortunately experienced.

This definitely is not an issue with the dog. It is a reaction to being improperly treated. We try to never allow agressive play. I think if similar treatment to what you describe happened to a child, it would be considered inappropriate.