Wolves - Chow Chows.

[Judy Fox]

I recently bought a book by an author called Michelle Paver. It is the first in a collection of six books, the sixth being published this coming August.
The story is primarily about a boy call Torak and is set 6 thousand years ago, when the people of Northern Europe were living in small clans and were hunter gatherers.
Anyway, in the first book - Torak finds an orphaned wolf cub and he befriends it and they become " Pack Brothers !. Torak can understand a good deal of " Wolf Talk " because his mother died when he was born and because his father was separated from the rest of the clan, he put the newborn babe in with a wolf suckling her cubs.
Well, Michelle Paver, in order to write these books did an incredible amount of research to find out how wolves lived and was given immense help by people who had wolf packs being looked after for conservation and so on and she learned a lot so her books are very informative. She also studied Polar Bears, Ravens, Beavers, Otters and obtained help from archaeologists and experts of all kinds.
Well - back to the wolves, at the back of the third book, she explains about the way a wolf pack manages itself and it is amazing how many things she described about their behaviour that I see in Milly and Mabel and have read about on this site from other people telling about their Chow's behaviour.
The way the wolves greet each other with a lick on the muzzles and the way they do not make eye contact with a stranger or a superior wolf in the pack. Also she explains the sounds the wolves make - not just howls but yips, uffs, puffs, harrumphs, etc., etc.
These books are aimed at 9/10 yr. olds upwards and I bought the first one in order to give to Fred's Goddaughter Leslie-Anne for Christmas. I thumbed through it as I cannot resist a book and have since bought the others and am waiting for the sixth. I am being very careful with them and making sure I do not drip my cocoa on them when I am reading in bed at night!!
I don't think Leslie-Anne is quite old enough for them yet. I was talking to her parents about them the other day and leave it to them to decide but they are an excellent read.
What does fascinate me though is the author's observations of her time with the Wolf Packs she visited and the things I have noticed with M & M. I tell, you - Chows are not like other Canines - there is definately something in their genetic makeup that makes them different.

[Sirchow]

Hi Judy, I am reading The Philosopher and the Wolf by Mark Rowlands and although I am not finished it yet I also see a lot of similarities between chows and wolves. I read somewhere recently and can't find the reference for it that when wolves and bears separated way back another creature that was "in between" also existed and that there was evidence that chows may be decended from that creature. Wish I knew where I read it though.

[Judy Fox]

Yes Siriol, I have read exactly what you are saying you have read and I cannot remember where either.
I seem to remember that when evolution was evolving and what was bear then split up to something and Wolves, then wolves carried on being wolves and canines evolved from them - crikey - I am confusing myself now - but then something else evolved and somewhere in the process, Chows arrived. They have two more teeth than other canines and there is certainly a subtle genetic difference.

These books I was telling you about are called " The Chronicles of Ancient Darkness " by Michelle Paver and they are truly excellent. I tend to read everything from " The Times " to the Weetabix box and anything in between and even though these books are aimed at children I find them enthralling.

Another thing that I found interesting was the author's description in the books of how the younger almost mature wolves, male and female baby-sit the cubs whilst the adults go hunting.

I found this particularly interesting as M & M's breeder told me about how their mother and their mother's litter sister and indeed other adult chow girls baby sat each others chowlings when the mother got out of the bed where the chowlings were to go out to spend a penny or to eat or to just have a rest from the babies. She said that M & M's mother and her litter sister were particularly devoted to each other and always helped bring up each other's litters.

[lola chow]

i always thought they where descended from bears something to do with the shape of the back legs ????????????

[Judy Fox]

Well when you think of it Maxine, when you see films on TV of bears running you can scale it down to the Chow Chow run when they are doing zoomies and not bumbling round like little fat old ladies.
That unique run the bears do is certainly nothing like a canine run and the chows do a very good job of copying it.

[Judy Fox]

Thank you - that certainly looks like what I read!!

That is very interesting and it is lovely to have chow chows who are different. I am very interested in the baby sitting though. I wonder if all chows are happy with other females minding their babies for them.
What about other breeds - we have friends who have flat coated retrievers and their bitches do not take kindly to others near their babies until they are quite older.
Of course, the wolf cubs stay with the pack much longer than pups stay with their mums.

[Sirchow]

Thanks for that Johnathan, it is interesting and that is the piece I was trying to find. I had read something else as well that was to do with DNA but like Judy I read so much I forget where, half the time but it certainly wasn't the weetabix box! I must get those books Judy. My shop is opposite the best kids bookshop in Scotland so I will take myself in there tomorrow.

[Judy Fox]

Siriol,

Before you go to the shop have a look at Amazon. I bought four out of the five I have for 1d. each - truly, they are new hardback and I paid 1d. each with £2.75 postage.

They come in the following order:-

Wolf Brother
Spirit Walker
Soul Eater
Outcast
Oath Breaker
Ghost Hunter

and the last one coming out in August .

[Sirchow]

Thanks Judy.

[Judy Fox]

You are very welcome - I have just bought a copy of The Philosopher and The Wolf from Amazon. I looked it up on Amazon and it sounds fascinating.

[Karla]

Great info!!!! Now I know the name of the family of ursine branch, odd to be so happy about it but I am, so there. I knew they branched off from a family/class(whatever) of asiatic ursines but where was always the question, they are just such great and interesting dogs on so many levels.

[CHowgal]

I started reading "Wolf Brother" this past school year, I checked it out from the school library and it was fascianting. Sadly, I didn't get to finish with all of my English Teacher's reding assignments... Hopefully I'll get to finish it and see if the school has the others... In my personal oppenion, if they can have the Twilight series they can have this one too. And get the new one when it is released.

[Judy Fox]

Oh dear Jess - never mind - that is one of the benefits of being my age, I can go to bed a bit earlier with a mug of drinking chocolate and read what I like.
I remember what it was like when I was at school with all the reading lists I had to get through for my " O " Levels and then later at College - but eventually you do get to read just what you want.
Maybe during the summer holidays....................

[CHowgal]

Oh dear Jess - never mind - that is one of the benefits of being my age, I can go to bed a bit earlier with a mug of drinking chocolate and read what I like.
I remember what it was like when I was at school with all the reading lists I had to get through for my " O " Levels and then later at College - but eventually you do get to read just what you want.
Maybe during the summer holidays....................

Exactly what summer is for. We just got out for summer break last Friday, So I've been hangin' out reading and spending time with Tip and Jazz.
Jasper thinks it's funny to put his nose in my way though.
Thank God for just one more year of high school. Then I can not worry about classes... at least for a while...

[Judy Fox]

You just keep at it Jessy, love - then you have the rest of your life to plan. Enjoy your summer.

[CHowgal]

Thank you.

[Chowred]

i have two chows and they are wonderful those books sound really intresting. PERSONALITY: The Chow Chow, though Mother Nature gave him a scowl, made him mysterious and quiet. He's a dog that minds his own business thus giving the impression of an aristocrat. Dignity and aloofness should not be confused with a poor nature. He does not go about looking for trouble, but if confronted, he will stand his ground and protect those he loves. Ill-tempered Chows are not representative of the breed, but a result of indiscrimiate breeding for popularity, fame or fortune. HABITS The Chow Chow is a dog of extreme cleanliness and it is not rare to see a puppy that is completely housebroken before it is eight weeks old. Many breeders say they have "never had accidents" and "chows seem to be born housebroken". The Chow's odour-free body and coat are said to be virtually vermin-free, making him a most acceptable household companion. After all, a Chow Chow is happiest when he has the company of those he loves. http://www.kwic.com/~chikoo/chows/history.htm

[Judy Fox]

Yes indeed - chow chows are so clean. We brought Milly home in 2000 when she was six weeks old and by she was seven weeks old she was clean in the house. Similarly with Matilda, she was eight weeks old when she came to us and a week later she was clean. Mabel and Maisie were six months and five months when they came to live with us and they were already clean.
Allof, dignified - absolutely but they love their own people.

[Hugo]

very, very interesting. I bought a male black chow chow about 20 years ago, he came with papers. anyway he was extremely aggressive and even tore the metal watch of the vet, who then needed stitches. the vet told me he was a black American domesticated wolf and suggested I have him put down. I was young at the time and the so called breeders were obviously dodgy. I couldn't put him down so my father rehomed him on a property for me.

Since growing up and having Hugo my Chow now, he is different to my first so called chow in both nature and looks, he came to our home about 8 wks old completely toilet trained, not once since day 1 has he toileted inside. I told my now vet and I doubt he even believes me. He is more than a dog, whatever he is I adore him.
Michelle and Hugo bear.x