Some of you may like Australia's Internet Nanny laws.

[nuke]

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/03/ ... 61100.html

The Australian government has decided to block a bunch of sites that THEY determine to be offensive. This included a site that merely lists the banned sites! If you try to hotlink to a banned site, they want to fine you up to $11,000.00 per day.

It's all good news to the few people that are offended those sites (and are forced to look at them), I'm sure. Too bad for the majority of people who are not so sheltered or offended.

So, Australia wants to go down the road of China and Indonesia as the most censored internet access in the world. You better behave, or nanny will spank you!

But about half of the sites on the list are not related to child *Censored Word* and include a slew of online poker sites, YouTube links, regular gay and straight *Censored Word* sites, Wikipedia entries, euthanasia sites, websites of fringe religions such as satanic sites, fetish sites, Christian sites, the website of a tour operator and even a Queensland dentist.

"It seems to me as if just about anything can potentially get on the list," Landfelt said.

The blacklist is maintained by ACMA and provided to makers of internet filtering software that parents can opt to install on their PCs.

However, if the Government proceeds with its mandatory internet filtering scheme, sites on the blacklist will be blocked for all Australians. The Government has flagged plans to expand the blacklist to 10,000 sites or more.

In a special report, written in conjunction with the Internet Industry Association and presented to the Government over a year ago, Landfeldt warned that "list leakage" was one of the main issues associated with maintaining a secret blacklist of prohibited sites.

Julian Assange, founder of Wikileaks, dug up the blacklist after ACMA added several Wikileaks pages to the list following the site's publication of the Danish blacklist.

He said secret censorship systems were "invariably corrupted", pointing to the Thailand censorship list, which was originally billed as a mechanism to prevent child *Censored Word* but contained more than 1200 sites classified as criticising the royal family.

"In January the Thai system was used to censor Australia reportage about the imprisoned Australian writer Harry Nicolaides," he said.

"The Australian democracy must not be permitted to sleep with this loaded gun. This week saw Australia joining China and the United Arab Emirates as the only countries censoring Wikileaks."

The leaked list, understood to have been obtained from an internet filtering software maker, contains 2395 sites. ACMA said its blacklist, as at November last year, contained 1370 sites.

Assange said the disparity in the reported figure is most likely due to the fact that the list contains several duplicates and variations of the same URL that stem from a single complaint. Alternatively, some sites may have been added to the list by the filter software maker.

ACMA said Australians caught distributing the list or accessing child *Censored Word* sites on the list could face criminal charges and up to 10 years in prison.

Opposition communications spokesman Nick Minchin said the leaking of the list was irresponsible but highlighted how this type of information could surface despite the efforts of ACMA to protect it, and could be used by those with a perverse interest in its content.

"The regrettable and unfortunate reality is there will always be explicit and illegal material on the web and - regardless of blacklists, filters and the like - those with the means and know-how will find ways of accessing it," he said.

"Adult supervision is the most effective way of keeping children safe online and people shouldn't be led into believing by Labor that expanded blacklists or mandatory filters are a substitute for that."

Colin Jacobs, spokesman for the online users' lobby group Electronic Frontiers Australia, said the leak was not surprising and would only get worse once the list was sent to hundreds of Australian ISPs as part of the Government's mandatory internet filtering policy.

He said the Government could be considered a "promoter and disseminator of links to some pretty unsavoury material".

"The list itself should concern every Australian - although plenty of the material is unsavoury or even illegal, the presence of sites like YouTube, MySpace, gambling or even Christian sites on the list raises a lot of questions," he said.

"There is even a harmless tour operator on there, but there is no mechanism for a site operator to know they got on or request to be removed. The prospect of mandatory nation-wide filtering of this secret list is pretty concerning from a democratic point of view."

The Communications Minister, Stephen Conroy, said the leak and publication of the ACMA blacklist would be "grossly irresponsible" and undermine efforts to improve cyber safety.

He said ACMA was investigating the matter and considering a range of possible actions including referral to the Australian Federal Police. Australians involved in making the content available would be at "serious risk of criminal prosecution".

"Under existing laws the ACMA blacklist includes URLs relating to child *Censored Word* abuse, rape, incest, bestiality, *Censored Word* violence and detailed instruction in crime," Senator Conroy said.

"No one interested in cyber safety would condone the leaking of this list."

[Auddymay]

Child *Censored Word* on the Internet needs some measure of resistance. I did not read the link, so I cannot say if it is the way to go. I know the number of pedophiles that used to be just creepy people from the neighborhoods are forming their own communities. With that came the advent of wide-scale trafficking of actual children, along with images of children. If it actually worked to stop and convict pedophiles, I would agree to it, but it sounds like just another band-aid on an artery bleed.

[nuke]

The problem is that he government has plans to ban thousands of sites based on what they decide adults shouldn't be able to access. Some of the sites include Christian sites, a dentist's site, and over half on the list have nothing to do with *Censored Word*. They even banned a site just because they posted a link to the list of banned sites.

*Censored Word* and whatever else is on the internet is the parents problem and the parents should deal with it. You don't penalize all adults.

In Australia, they even have a list of books that are banned. Some of the books are survivalist books.

They are going down the same path that China has chosen. Internet nanny will decide what's good for you.

[bama]

Nuke said...>>>*Censored Word* and whatever else is on the internet is the parents problem and the parents should deal with it. You don't penalize all adults.<<<

Nuke, I want to address this part of your post...
*Censored Word*, especially child *Censored Word* is much more than the "parents" problem.
It is a legal problem, a moral problem, and by it's sheer numbers it is a social problem. Child *Censored Word* is illegal, period. The internet provides a
meeting place, facilitating child *Censored Word* offenders to congregate, and thus empowering them. It is the number one responsibility of government
to protect it's people. I believe it is the duty of the government to protect it's people, especially, innocent children.
Parents are not bigger than the internet. They don't have control over all the harmful people that prey on their children. Government has to be involved with laws and regulations, to provide everyone an atmosphere of safety, security and the right to the pursuit of happiness.

[nuke]

Bama, I didn't say child *Censored Word*.

[Auddymay]

But about half of the sites on the list are not related to child *Censored Word* and include a slew of online poker sites, YouTube links, regular gay and straight *Censored Word* sites, Wikipedia entries, euthanasia sites, websites of fringe religions such as satanic sites, fetish sites, Christian sites, the website of a tour operator and even a Queensland dentist.

If about half are not related to child *Censored Word*, that also tells me about half ARE! I suppose much like the our own homeland security protection programs, key words trigger an automatic 'hit'. That is where common sense would be handy.

[Victory]

I also abhore child *Censored Word*, and give all respect and support to the law enforcment agencies that use whatever means it takes to battle this horendous crime. That includes shutting down sites and arresting those running them.

However, the blanket banning of sites, like the banning of books is one of ten steps a government takes to completely control their people. Banning of internet sites is in the same class as banning/burning books, tapes and records; closing down news papers and news organizations that happen to disagree with something the government wants. If Austrailia continues down this path, Austrailians will be the ultimate losers and the prepetuators of child *Censored Word* won't suffer a bit, infact they will most likely profit as they will be the first to go underground and figure a way around the bans.

For parents who worry about their child being a victim of internet predators there are some rules to follow:
first don't depend on Internet protection software; for every software that 'protect' there is a software to disable it, and kids know how to find these programs, (so does anyone with good net experience), 2nd, make sure your child is old enough to understand the dangers of talking to people on the internet they don't know, and I think most kids under 14 are not old enough. 3rd no internet access without the parents having full access to the computer, email account, facebook accout, LJ accout, etc. 4th parents should know how to use the history setting in IE and other web browsers to back track where the child has been and last, charge the kid for their internet usage! What is this just giving the kid all the access they need, and a phone and a cell phone?! You know when I got a phone of my own? When I could pay for it on my own! I got my first stereo when I could pay for it myself and the same with my first TV and I'll get my first car the same way, (if I ever get my license stupid ankle) One of the problems I see with society is that children are over protected as to the dangers out there in the real big bad world, but allowed way to many freedoms and priviliges without the tools to deal with them maturely.

This means real interaction with a child, real conversations, turn off the TV and discuss things with them! My parents and my brother and I discussed, religion, politics, the news everything from the time I was very very young, age appropriate inso far as language but I learned to deal with subjects like *Censored Word*, drinking, politics, (the Bay of Pigs, Nuke drills, JFK) interpersonal relationships, bullying, lying, etc by having real conversations, no one ever said, "You'll understand when you're older to me" I was helped to understand as I could right then.

One of the tools pedophiles count on, (according to criminalists and pyschologists) is that they "LISTEN" to the childern, at least at first, they show benign interest in the childs thoughts and feelings, this is the lure, the trick, the internet is just another medium for them to do this, and allows it on a wider scale, but the true method is that these perverts pay attention, act as if they care. Most kids who are lonely and have questions find the answers with their peer groups, (usually the wrong answers but they get it eventually), it's the lonely introverts and shy extroverts who need attention from adults who are the biggest targets. The first behave as if they don't need anyone or anything but it's a lie, they need adults to help understand the world and themselves, the second also need adults to guide and help them and this leaves both open to abusive people.

I know because I was a lonely introvert as a kid, smart, and very independent, but I also had a mom I could ask anything and if she didn't know the answer she would admit it and then help me find it. (there was a reason that she spent a fortune on a set of Encyclopedia Britannicas and all the reference books that came with them)

Governments can fold to the demands of a few lazy parents who don't want to spend the time perparing their children for the real world and the groups who use these parents as publicity makers, (I think these are as bad as the pervs in a different way) but they won't be able to stop these criminals this way, and most of these governements know it, they just use these things as a way of gaining more and more control.

The one thing that the people can call the goverenment to do is to impose harsher sentences on these people, I think that one, child *Censored Word* should be a federal felony not a state one, and that the sentence for first offense should be life without possiblitiy of parol. These people repeat, it's a known fact, they can not be rehablitated because most of them don't think what they do is wrong. And many were victims themselves who didn't get proper help, the biggest part of their personalities is that they are very self-centered and very into self-gratification no matter what, somthing that is very difficult to train out of an adult.

[chris]

Victory...... can you repeat that?

[Rowlee]

In Australia, they even have a list of books that are banned. Some of the books are survivalist books.

They are going down the same path that China has chosen. Internet nanny will decide what's good for you.

How do you know this? I've never heard of anything like this. Please don't insult my country by saying it's going down the same path as China, it's nowhere near anyting like China.

[Auddymay]

I am not so much referring to the internet trollers, who corrupt the kids. That is indeed something that parents can help. I mean the pedophiles, who are organizing, and already trading in child flesh-both real and digital. They already have their victims, they are trying to diseminate to a larger crowd.

[nuke]

In Australia, they even have a list of books that are banned. Some of the books are survivalist books.

They are going down the same path that China has chosen. Internet nanny will decide what's good for you.

How do you know this? I've never heard of anything like this. Please don't insult my country by saying it's going down the same path as China, it's nowhere near anyting like China.

I heard about it from people I know in Australia. Maybe you just are not aware of the extent that your rights have been circumvented. China, Australia and Indonesia have the most strict internet censorship in the world.

[redangie24]

In Australia, they even have a list of books that are banned. quote]

How do you know this?

http://www.austlit.edu.au/specialistDat ... llockMoore
http://www.abc.net.au/rn/bookshow/stori ... 007646.htm
http://scriptandprint.blogspot.com/2006 ... ralia.html

I am sure you can do a search and find more.

Personally I don't think children should be left alone on the computer at anytime. If they want to use the computer then parents should sit there with them while they use it. Not in the room but right next to them.

When it comes to pedophile for the most part they are not curable. The reason is that they like everyone else are mostly born with their *Censored Word* identity. Which for them is pedophila. Those who do not reoffend and are continually monitored do not go on to live normal lives and get married. They live alone, because thier attraction to children does not go away. They just refrain from acting on thier lusts. It is a horrible thing. I personally (sorry if I offend for this next comment) think when they are caught and are proven to have commited the crime should just be killed. They don't deserve to breathe.

[kez65]

this is strange...you guys seem to know more than US aussies ....it hasnt been anywhere here..tatally new to me...
maybe shouldnt believe everything you see on the net..
oh and btw...WE WILL NEVER BE LIKE CHINA!!! and please reframe from even suggesting that.
our country will never be as bad as some other countries...maybe look in your own back yard...

[redangie24]

Kez, Rowlee - When there are over 6 million sites many of which are from Universities and mainstream news organizations the chances are about 99.999999% that it is true. And the only one comparing you to China is Nuke so please direct your anger at him. If you read his other posts you will know he likes to stir stuff up. And by our own backyard who are talking to? As I am sure you know there are people from all over the world on this board. Personally I think there is not even a slight comparison between the two. Every country is differnet. Most are not alike. Even in Europe where there are lots of small countries right next to each other there are no two alike. Each is unique.

Banned books and websites have been done and overturned other countries. Like the U.S. So what is your opinion of the website banning?

[Auddymay]

... Personally I think there is not even a slight comparison between the two. Every country is differnet. Most are not alike. Even in Europe where there are lots of small countries right next to each other there are no two alike. Each is unique.

Banned books and websites have been done and overturned other countries. Like the U.S. So what is your opinion of the website banning?

Angie! You made a new word! DIFFERNET- things that are different on the internet...hehe

Sorry, it popped in my head as I read it.

[nuke]

Kez, Rowlee - And the only one comparing you to China is Nuke so please direct your anger at him. If you read his other posts you will know he likes to stir stuff up.

Australia and China will have the strictest internet censorship in the world. That's what I have said and that's what is gong on. Sites that the government decides are bad are put on a secret banned list that nobody else is supposed to see and nobody has a problem with that over there?

A lot of people on this board seem very ignorant of politics and even basic things that are happening in the world every day. This internet censorship in Australia should have anyone living over there up in arms. Its pretty shocking to me that a democratic country would pass such measures restricting free speech. In fact, it flat out amazes me. To even link to a site that the government has put on the list (with no vote) will cost you $11000.00 per day in fines.

And the reaction to this news is to say "stop comparing Australia to China" ????

[Rogansmommy]

I haven't posted in forever, but for some reason this thread has pulled me out of my lurker hole.

As an American who has been to both China and Australia (for work, in both situations) - let me stick my two cents in.

China is beautiful. It is one of the most amazing civilizations in history. That being said - You have to watch your words all the time. You must be careful where you go, what you say and who you are with. Even travelling with an American passport, you are still exposed to the not-so-subtle oppressiveness of the government. You are not permitted anywhere outside of the tourist places or your business trip. At times, it was scary. The majority of Chinese you come into contact with are interested in you for one reason - your dollars. Americans are cash cows and are treated as such.

Australia is by far, the most beautiful place I have ever been. At no point in Aus did I feel unsafe, insecure or controlled. I did touristy things and met total strangers who were as excited as I was to talk. Aussies are some of the most genuine, up-front, and just plain nice people I have ever had the pleasure of associating with. Their society, on many levels, is well advanced beyond ours (their diversity, acceptance of the unique, etc...) and I was incredibly comfortable there. While I was there, the conversations I had were very genuine. They are much better versed in US Culture than we are in theirs and it was a priviledge to get a 'quick education' on Aussie history and culture.

The one mistake most Americans make when looking at other societies is trying to hold these societies up to our culture. No society, be it China or Australia or Canada or Russia for that matter, will ever meet our cultural standards. Why? Because they are DIFFERENT. They developed differently, they have different reference points and different reasons for being what and who they are. People would be hard pressed to find an American who wouldn't be offended by the statement of "why don't you do it our way?" so it always makes me shake my head when Americans expect that of other cultures.

Learn something about the other society before you are so quick to condemn it. Please. Thank you.

[nuke]

Did you even read my post? Where am I condemning anyone or anything? Do you not understand my point when I said that Australia and China have the most strict internet censorship of any country?

Australia has decided to have their government create a secret list of banned sights that they have decided people should not have access too. That's what China does as well.

Do you not see a problem with a secret government censorship and banning of websites that THEY deem to be bad sites? It has nothing to do with how "beuatiful" a country is. I don't care how beautiful China is, it's still an oppressive communist country.

[Rogansmommy]

Did you even read my post? Where am I condemning anyone or anything? Do you not understand my point when I said that Australia and China have the most strict internet censorship of any country?

Australia has decided to have their government create a secret list of banned sights that they have decided people should not have access too. That's what China does as well.

Do you not see a problem with a secret government censorship and banning of websites that THEY deem to be bad sites? It has nothing to do with how "beuatiful" a country is. I don't care how beautiful China is, it's still an oppressive communist country.

So because our government bans sites out front, we're ok? Do you remember the Patriot Act? Clearly, you are not a member of an oppressed group in the United States or you would have a better understanding of what oppression is. Do you not understand that ever website you travel to is logged on your computer for eternity and that any point in time the US Government can arrest you for visiting sites?

China is oppressive. I wonder, if you read my post, because I clearly state that. And part of Australia's beauty is in how it's population interacts with each other. Do you know anything about their history to be able to condemn their government right now?

[kiwani]

The Government's plan to introduce mandatory internet censorship has effectively been scuttled...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/02/ ... 10486.html




Censorship plan was completely politicised, fatally flawed...

The Greens Senator Scott Ludlam urged the Government to drop its "completely unhinged" policy which was "a waste of taxpayers funds". The Liberal Party's communications spokesman, Nick Minchin, said the Opposition would try to obtain the report under freedom of information laws.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/w ... 28860.html

[Victory]

The Government's plan to introduce mandatory internet censorship has effectively been scuttled...

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2009/02/ ... 10486.html




Censorship plan was completely politicised, fatally flawed...

The Greens Senator Scott Ludlam urged the Government to drop its "completely unhinged" policy which was "a waste of taxpayers funds". The Liberal Party's communications spokesman, Nick Minchin, said the Opposition would try to obtain the report under freedom of information laws.

http://www.smh.com.au/news/technology/w ... 28860.html

Very cool, the Aussies do have more on the ball than we do here.

[Rowlee]

Kez, Rowlee - When there are over 6 million sites many of which are from Universities and mainstream news organizations the chances are about 99.999999% that it is true. And the only one comparing you to China is Nuke so please direct your anger at him. If you read his other posts you will know he likes to stir stuff up. And by our own backyard who are talking to? As I am sure you know there are people from all over the world on this board. Personally I think there is not even a slight comparison between the two. Every country is differnet. Most are not alike. Even in Europe where there are lots of small countries right next to each other there are no two alike. Each is unique.

Banned books and websites have been done and overturned other countries. Like the U.S. So what is your opinion of the website banning?

I didn't make the comment about looking in your own backyard and I certainly didn't think I came across as angry!!. I was asking Nuke not to compare Australia to China because from someone who lives in this wonderful country to me, there is absolutely no comparison. I don't agree with the act of blocking adults from internet sites, except for child *Censored Word* sites and similar. I do get a bit pissed off at times, especially here in Western Australia because we are regarded and rightly so, as a "nanny state" sometimes. THings like you have to wear a bike helmet if you cycle to me is utter crap. If you don't want to wear a helmet and have an accident and crack your head open that's your problem. Smoking is another one. OMG, it has just about become an illegal act to smoke a cigarette. I do get pissed off with people trying to "protect my civil liberties" too. If I want my civil liberties protected, I'll do it myself thanks. Too many do gooders around IMO.

But having said that I can't imagine a better country to live in and I have visited and lived in other countries. We do have freedom of speech (some have too much ) I know people who have visited china and other similar countries and I just don't believe that my country is anywhere near as bad. OUr media and tv reports aren't censored for a start.

I am coming to the USA in June to visit so it will be interesting to see what I make of it.
Sabina

[redangie24]

Rowlee, I was just putting both of yours together since it would be easier.

Auddy that is funny I did not even notice I did that!!

[Rowlee]

Rowlee, I was just putting both of yours together since it would be easier.

Auddy that is funny I did not even notice I did that!!

No problem. Feeling a bit over-sensitive today - too much champagne last night

[Layla]

Well Sab, you are going to be in Seattle... so you will have to wear a cycle helmet when riding a bike & no smoking within 25feet of building entrances!