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Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:04 pm
Chowdad, once again, I can't offer any advice, but I just wnated to let you know that we are thinking of you and praying for George. I am glad that he is eating, excellent idea for mixing it. Hang in there Chowdad.
Posted: Tue Mar 20, 2007 7:08 pm
What kind of ointment do you apply on his feet? I wonder if you have Penaten available in your drug store/pharmacy. It doesn't sting when it's applied to a sore. Here in Canada it's used for diaper rashes and bedsores on the elderly. You may find it in the baby section of a supermarket.
If all fails, try plain petroleum jelly. It's messy, but doesn't sting and is easy to apply.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 4:00 am
I had amale chow who had acl and he got plates in his knees.one got infected 3 years later and had to be removed.he was getting sores on the leg that was infected. he had alot of medical problems thru his life but lived to be 10 years old. good luck!
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 5:24 am
Re: "He seems uncomfortable and queasy anytime after he eats. Is this normal after they hardy eat anything for months, like a tummy ache."
Some of the side-effects of zinc supplements are gastrointestinal irritation, nausea, etc. There are other warning signs listed on the product info/safety sheets. Also, more ulceration may be involved, not only from the Rimadyl, but linked with the zinc deficiency. You are also dosing meals with antibiotics, so also review adverse effects and warning signs of whatever med prescribed.
Re: "How important is it that I get him off of lean beef/ rice, and onto a dog food diet?"
The aim of the pulverized beef/rice was to stimulate appetite, and to allow some healing of the ulcers by using softer food. It's like a first-phase transitional diet to fire up the engines. If the appetite is steady, and the thick drooling is reduced, you can further transition adding a premium grade dog food, and decrease the rice. What you feed from here on, is also important, including supplements as necessary.
Re: "The vet prescribed Glehaven P2/S shampoo to clean all his sores daily."
I'm not familiar with Glehaven. If the sores are numerous, deep, and painful, I'd suggest cleaning sections at a time, with some interval, if the shampoo adverse effect and pain is *so* overwhelming. No one here can see how serious the wounds are, and while other more natural rinses are available, it may be best to allow the wounds to scar *seal* first, and the zinc should help with that.
Re: "His paw pads are open and bleeding and a great source of pain and disability to him, allowing him to only walk a few feet at a time."
Such a poor and weak condition of the paw pads often occurs with zinc-responsive dermatoses. Areas affected are most often 'pressure points'. There are "medi-paw" booties, made with breatheable fabric and padding. I'm not sure this would help much besides keeping the paws clean and lessen abrasion. The act of standing on compromised paw pads tends to stretch/rip the skin, until the zinc strengthens them.
Here's a link to another brand and style of med-bootie:
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:32 am
One of my neighbours is a baby nurse. They get abused babies on her ward. Babys with scarring and scabs from neglect. She told me they generally just wash the babys with plain water, no soap. Once the skin starts healing then they do the wound dressings.
The last two weeks of her life, Luna had terrible open wounds on her back, no idea why or how they developed so quickly. I treated those by washing the wounds with boiled water, I did add a pinch of salt. The wounds did heal quickly but then other problems cropped up, not related to the above. Karin
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:52 am
More info. The sores George has are not really open, except on his paws, they are just pink with a few tiny spots of blood. They tend to produce puss if they are not cleaned and medicated often. They are Numerous. he has one on each hip, on one ear, all four paws, two legs,
and a newer one on his chin that is like a gash he made with his rear paw from the corner of his mouth all the way to his chest. The oldest one is on the top of his ear. It is an inch long and 1/4 inch wide. It looks white with little bleeding pinpoint dots throughout. It was there a while before we found it and removed the black crusty scab that was kind of heaped up over it. It seems it is never going to close after 3 months. The rest are all healing changing from hot pink to lite.
He did much better with the shampoo today he didn't really react at all.
His drooling completely stopped the day after he started vitamins. Thank you again so much Kiwani.
The medicine we put on his sores is generic Panalog ointment. And Aloe vera whenever they look dry.
He seems to like A & D baby cream put on his paws so I usually do that at bedtime. The vet said OK. I think he likes the smell.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:22 pm
Re: "It seems it is never going to close after 3 months. The rest are all healing changing from hot pink to lite."
Keep in mind that the ear and paw pads have thicker collagen, and that zinc is vital for collagen synthesis. In those past few months, the body was being depleted, and it seems you are starting to see some improvements now: the drooling has stopped, some lesions are healing, appetite has increased. The sores on the hips may be on 'pressure points' if they are in identical areas, and the others on the legs may be as well.
In the meantime, here's a veterinary link on various types of zinc-responsive dermatoses, including diet-induced, I mentioned earlier. There are some skin photos, discussion about paw pads, overall view of zinc's role fighting infection, building and healing skin, etc. There's also a *dosage listing* for the various forms of zinc supplement. The first zinc variety listed on that page must be the one you were given. It's a high dose per kg.
Since you mentioned earlier that blood testing was done, I trust that they ruled out euthyroid syndrome and diabetes, contributing to the slower healing (because of the high grain 'Science Diet')
Best wishes for continued healing...
http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/arti ... 5&pageID=1
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 1:56 pm
Thanks again. I never thought about the ear being collagen. That's why the ear wound looks so odd, not really like skin at all, more like styrofoam. I know it's possible for him to heal because the other ear had the same thing and is better now. He is lucky that none of his ear stuff is inside the ear. He is on the mend for sure, but it's still scary to think how bad his immunity must be for all these sores to just sit and not heal. His Thyroid, blood sugar, and liver were all tested in december on his first vet visit for this, and all were good although they said his thyroid could be a little better.
Thanks for the links on the booties and on zinc responsive dermatitis. I will read them both carefully.
Because he is eating again, his paws are the biggest impairment to his function right now. They don't really look that bad, just little red abrasions near the edges of the black pads. He seems to really hate to walk more that four steps, he seems to stand still fine but when he goes to move he acts like he's in broken glass. I'm worried about his muscles because untill 6 weeks ago him and I used to walk for hours almost every day. 4 to 8 miles 6 days a week for the last two years. He loved it and never wanted to go home, even in the snow and ice when his paws were bleeding I had to force him to turn around to go back. He was really funny about choosing his own route, and varying between 5 or 6 different paths depending on his mood. I think it's partly worse now that it's warm, because the frozen ground was anesthetic for his feet.
His hip sores are on his butt cheeks. They started as hard black matts with yellow puss on the skin underneath that spread under his fur as they got worse. I put gold bond powder on them at first to dry them and to keep him from licking. It did both grea, and healed all but the worst areas (about 1 1/2 inch diameter) where it formed a hard scab with the powder so that when we took it off it wasn't healed.
Thanks for listening : )
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 3:43 pm
Re: "but it's still scary to think how bad his immunity must be for all these sores to just sit and not heal."
The grain diet he was on just wasn't dense enough in body-building nutrients to carry him during times of stress or to counterbalance any med use, especially something like Rimadyl. The body ends up borrowing reserves from muscle, bone, hormones, etc. and sometimes even loses digestive enzymes. The thyroid gets lowered too because it depends on zinc, but it can pick-up again with better nutrition.
As for the muscle wasting, glutamine is often used as supplement (body builder protein powders, etc). Glutamine is also a very important fuel for healing the digestive tract. There are some archived posts on glutamine and muscle wasting too. A beef based
formula will also help him bulk up.
As for the ear scarring, it's most likely a 'cauliflower' ear.
As for the paws, if there is no infection, you might also try a paint-on bandage, known as 'skin crack gel' (band-aid brand). It's supposed to have a 24 hour pain relief effect. There are also paw products that sled racers use.
As for the hotspot areas, "Malaseb" has a good line of skin products, some are vinegar/boric acid based, and deal with staph and yeasts. There's also Neopredef antibiotic powder - but the right diet usually eliminates skin problems altogether.
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 6:20 pm
I ordered George some booties designed for sled dogs from this web site; http://www.dogbooties.com/
And I read the article about Zinc, the dosage that I got from the vet was for the first type of zinc, but the one I'm using is zinc gluconate which has a daily dose of 40 mg for his size, not 250 mg. I'm glad I read it.
Jacqui I am sorry about your chow, what a nightmare. George had TPLO on both legs, and when he got his first sore on his leg we were very scared it was infected or damaged, but the vet said it was because the arthritis made it hurt so he chewed it. Could yours walk after it was removed?
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 7:34 pm
Chowdad, I'm so happy to read your George is getting better. I'm sorry I haven't much advice to offer at all, but am thinking of you and sending you much healing thoughts your way.
Leonora & mum
Posted: Wed Mar 21, 2007 8:26 pm
Chowdad - just like Leonora & mum, we don't have advice but we have been keeping track of this thread and are saying our prayers for George's recovery. I'm so glad that other chow members have been able to help you help George!
Big hugs to George and you!
Posted: Thu Mar 22, 2007 7:14 am
Re: "...but the one I'm using is zinc gluconate which has a daily dose of 40 mg for his size, not 250 mg. I'm glad I read it."
I'm glad you read it too. This link has some details about zinc overdose symptoms, and includes a list of antibiotics that it can interfere with.
As for the leg chewing/arthritis, when zinc plunges, copper gets elevated, and it's that copper that is linked with compulsive licking and chewing behaviors. Zinc has a sedative effect, and it keeps histamine in check.
Re: my sick chow chow
Posted: Sun Jul 31, 2011 3:53 pm
i'm sorry for you and your dog. has he been tested for allergies?do you ever have him shaved? that way you could see all of him better. my dog got a hot spot from a flea. i'd definetely consider a new vet. my dog takes tramadol for arthritis. she also takes dog vitamins. my baby is surviving lymphoma and the fish is easy on the stomach. she was on rimadyl at first but a dog can not take 2 steriods at the same time. you also might have the thyroid checked. hope he gets better
Re: my sick chow chow
Posted: Tue Aug 02, 2011 2:27 pm
how is he now ?