my sick chow chow

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chowdad
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my sick chow chow

Postby chowdad » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:28 am

Hello Chow Lovers,

This is my first post, and I need help bad, and quick please. My chow is 9 1/2 years old. He had cruciate surgery (TPLO) on both legs several years age, and did wonderfully until november 2006. He started making weird noises like smacking with his mouth, and began to lick his hind leg a lot. On Christmas eve we took him to the vet because he had made a sore on his leg with licking. He was given Rimadyl and cephalexin for two weeks, he seemed like he felt better at first, but has since gotten worse and worse, and much worse. We adore our baby and our lives revolve around his so I could list 200 symptoms but I'll try to get to the point. He had three visits to the vet each with more antibiotics, the last was Baytril. We gave up on getting any help from our vet. He now has sores all over and won't eat and can't walk. His paws, ears, and hips, all have sores. He continues to makes the smacking noise and thick slobber from his mouth which seems to make him unable to take solid foods. He will eat tuna from the can and cheese but that's it. His hip sores are like hot spots, his paws have abrasions, and the tops of his ears are wounded from scratching. I believe he is dying from arthritis and allergies, but I don't know what to do.

Thank You,
John

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Roxana
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Postby Roxana » Tue Mar 13, 2007 9:13 am

John,
So very, very sorry to hear about your boy. I dont really have any advice to give you, hopefully some of the others will. The only thing I can suggest is take him to another vet! Get a second opinion or a third or a fourth. Don't give up, there must be something that can be done to help him. I wish you all the best.
Roxana

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Postby sit_by_the_beach » Tue Mar 13, 2007 10:58 am

I would take the chow to another vet. Is there a home visiting vet in your area? My chow Luna used to get terrible hotspots. One would start, I got it to heal, another one would crop up. I have no idea why, or for what reason. I kept her groomed at all times. I would cut off the fur around the wound. I would sterilize the area around the sore with peroxide, 5%. Keep the area clean. If it's necessary, use a halo to prevent licking.
I wish you all the best with your chow.
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kiwani
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Postby kiwani » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:35 pm

Re: "weird noises like smacking with his mouth... lick his hind leg a lot...sores all over... won't eat...can't walk... thick slobber...seems to make him unable to take solid foods...hip sores are like hot spots...his paws have abrasions...ears are wounded from scratching..."

My first impression of all these symptoms is that a copper/zinc imbalance seems to be what's common to all. Meds contribute to a copper/zinc imbalance, and some of these symptoms are also 'adverse effect symptoms' of the meds you've mentioned.

Zinc plays a large role in the body and is a part of about 200 enzymes, so its lack would have a significant impact on body chemistry, affecting other organs, hormones, etc. There are a variety of causes which can contribute to a zinc imbalance. Symptoms of a deficiency include: drooling; abnormal sense of taste; loss of muscle control (including around mouth); skin lesions, ulcers, sores (especially on face, ears, legs); increased skin inflammation, poor wound healing; joint problems; weakened immune system; etc.

Some of the adverse effects of the meds include gastro-intestinal damage; itching; loss of appetite, etc. Lip smacking and drooling can also be symptoms of gastro damage, ulcers etc.

There is a Rimadyl client-info safety-sheet link in the archives, listing all adverse effects of this med. There are other archived threads listing its adverse effects on the digestive tract. You can find client info safety sheets of the other meds online for a full listing of their adverse effects, warning signs, etc.

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chowdad
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thank you

Postby chowdad » Tue Mar 13, 2007 12:58 pm

I really appreciate the replies.

Kiwani-- Do you think a multivitamin would help.

You were right about the muscles around his mouth they are droopy like he had a stroke or something, and he has trouble chewing and swallowing.

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Jeff&Peks
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Postby Jeff&Peks » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:15 pm

Chowdad, Glad Kawani found you that's who I was trying to get to you when I posted you in the general section needing help.
“...There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because conscience tells one that it is right.” MLK

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Postby chowfrnd88 » Tue Mar 13, 2007 1:20 pm

I am so, so sorry for what you're going through. I would also get a second opinion. I am no help, I know, but I just wanted to say I hope that things improve fast. You'll be in our thoughts.
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chowdad
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vitamins

Postby chowdad » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:01 pm

I am so glad for the support. Does anyone know if human multivitamins are safe for dogs?
I think Kiwani may be able to save my babies life with his advice. I have been saying for the last four months that he seems poisoned, but no idea what from. He is sound asleep now. We have switched from taking long walks to riding in the car with the windows down, he seems to love it in the same way.
Thanks again to everyone.

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Postby Jeff&Peks » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:06 pm

The post below this has some info about Rimadyl and a post from a lady that took her Chow off it, take a look.
“...There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because conscience tells one that it is right.” MLK

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Postby Roxana » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:14 pm

John,
Here is a link about vitamins for dogs, you may find it helpful
http://www.healthypetjournal.com/defaul ... abid=25103

I dont know if human multivitamins are safe for dogs, but I know they sell all kinds of doggy vitamins at the pet store, maybe you should look into that.

Keep us posted.

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Postby Red Dragon » Tue Mar 13, 2007 2:38 pm

Where are you located so someone might send you to a good vet? My first guess would have been all the drugs having a negative affect on him.

If he has abrasions on the feet, is it because he is dragging his feet?

There is a suppliment called Synovi G3 that is good for the joints, I have not seen anything negative about using it, and I have seen improvement in arthritic joints after they have been on it for a few weeks. KV Vet has a good price on it, the chewables are the easiest to deal with.

Hope you get it worked out and he gets better.
Sam

Keeper of the furry things...Master of the kibble....Scooper of the poo!

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Postby kiwani » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:31 pm

Re: "Kiwani-- Do you think a multivitamin would help."

My first concern would be the state of the digestive tract, after using these heavy duty meds, because some supplements like zinc and vitamin c can irritate it. You would have to know how to recognize quality supplement brands, and not overdose with zinc, because everything has to work in balance.

My second concern would be trying to find the root of what caused the imbalance. Was it the med usage, which started the domino effect of lowering zinc? Or increased stress chemistry, which lowered zinc; or excess calcium and phosphorus from a high meat diet; or excess soy/wheat interfering with zinc; lack of digestive enzymes or other gastro problems not absorbing zinc; excess fiber interfering with zinc; excess iron; kidney problems; liver problems; etc.


Re: "You were right about the muscles around his mouth they are droopy like he had a stroke or something, and he has trouble chewing and swallowing."


This is something which needs further investigation to find the root cause, as mentioned above. I'm just giving you my best guess, based on all the overall symptoms.

It would help to pulverize the food in a blender and use an infant oral syringe in the cheek pouch to feed.
I've mixed certain supplements with the mash and have fed invalids this way. The B-complex are also important to recovery, but you need know what the root cause of the problem is most of all.

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Postby kiwani » Tue Mar 13, 2007 3:47 pm

Does anyone know if human multivitamins are safe for dogs?"

Human grade supplements are what I've always used, because animal grade supplements are poorer quality and not as regulated in terms of safety, etc. There are some archived threads on vitamins, if you are interested.


Re: "... with his advice."

Kiwani is a she :)

All best wishes.

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chowdad
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nutrition

Postby chowdad » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:08 pm

Hi again,

I assumed the zinc problem was from him not eating his food. Back in November he quit eating science diet senior large formula. He would go days without eating at all, we thought it was from being spoiled on treats and human food so we stopped those and he still wouldn't eat. For 3 months his diet since has been tuna, salmon, rice, and cheese. But his appetite is very poor and some days he refuses everything except cheese. I read cottage cheese is good so I use that. He also resist water sometimes, but then goes on water binge later. The vet ran thyroid, liver and other blood tests in december and they were normal. He said his sores weren't healing because of a weak immune system. I have given him a centrum and am praying for good health. George is our second chowling, and I'm glad for any hope of help with his illness.

John

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chris
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Postby chris » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:21 pm

John, I'm so sorry to hear what you and your baby are going through. Definatly listen to what Kiwani is saying, but also find a new vet... a good one preferably of course and take him in.
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Postby Victory » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:30 pm

Kiwani do you think this baby would benefit from Green Cow, to replace some of the stomach enzymes and pick up his appeitite a bit?

Just a thought.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
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Postby janet » Tue Mar 13, 2007 5:55 pm

john, so sorry to hear of your baby's discomfort. kiwani is the best at health advice.you are on the right track.get a new vet.
find a good one, who knows chows well.
leave it to jeff, to be there to help out. an all around good guy.
good luck, i will say a prayer for his recovery.
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Postby Jeff&Peks » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:24 pm

leave it to jeff, to be there to help out. an all around good guy.

Yep that's me.
“...There comes a time when one must take a position that is neither safe, nor politic, nor popular, but one must take it because conscience tells one that it is right.” MLK

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Postby chris » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:31 pm

Yep.. if anyone cares about their chow and other's chows.. it's Jeff... he is 100 percent behind the chow. :D
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Postby Juniper » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:33 pm

Also, as far as poisons go. I had found out that my neighbor's tree that hangs over my yard is poisonous and my chow Troy had been eating the leaves, berries and bark since I got him last June 06. You might look at that as a possibility if your chow has access to plants that you don't know are poisonous. Troy got pretty sick, and had a lowered immune system as a result. He was slow in recovering since he was poisoned a little almost each day for months. Unfortunately, there's nothing I can do about the tree shedding over my yard. I just need to supervise Troy very carefully.

When my chows were weak and sick I gave them freshly made organic chicken broth, no salt, with some parsley, 1 carrot, 1 celery stalk added. I don't give them the solids, just the broth and 1 tab/day of human grade probiotics. I also add a level teaspoon of Earthrise Spirulina powder for the minerals (a highly digestible protein) into the pot. I use only organic ingredients. But if you can't get them that's OK.

After a day or so on the chicken broth, to increase the appetite, I add delecta yeast flakes (saccromyces verisiae-grown for human consumption)(the latter all depends on whether your chow is allergic to yeast or not.)1/8 to 1/4 teaspoon into their bowl.

By the third day they are usually hungering for the solids and then I give the organic cottage cheese with some Solid Gold Seameal (if you can get it)and add some slowly scrambled egg. Then I give them the solid organic chicken from the broth with the veggies.

Also for the itching I've applied organic aloe vera gel (that humans consume)directly on the itching areas and keep it in the fridge. And apply it with a paper towel to the affected areas. It's OK if they lick it. It cools the hot spots as well. You can also use fresh aloe vera leaves and just cut out the green inside with the brownish gel and apply directly to the hot spots/rashes/open sores.

I hope your chow feels better soon. It is important to assess what the actual problem is and have a good vet as the others have suggested. But in the meantime the digestive tract needs a break and usually when there is toxicity an animal will fast on broth and will restore it's energy level to the point where it can consume solid food again.

Good luck and keep us posted.
Jennifer & Sheena

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Postby kiwani » Tue Mar 13, 2007 6:42 pm

Re: "Kiwani do you think this baby would benefit from Green Cow, to replace some of the stomach enzymes and pick up his appeitite a bit?"

Yes, and because the sense of smell is weakened when zinc is low, the strong odor of the tripe would help too. Before recommending anything, I was waiting for some feedback on what this Chow had been fed to get to this point. If the Science Diet Senior is the one with ground peanut hull fiber, soymeal, heavy on grains, all those could lower zinc and deplete digestive enzymes. The skewed homemade diet afterwards, and the med use compounded the problem. I need to review a detailed ingredients list of Science Diet Senior, before posting further...

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science diet

Postby chowdad » Tue Mar 13, 2007 7:34 pm

I thought I would provide the ingredient list of george's old food he ate science diet on the vet's recommendation his whole life until 4 months ago, not a bite of it in 3 months.
Science Diet Senior Large Breed:
corn meal, chicken by product meal, animal fat, soybean mill run, flaxseed, chicken liver flavor, dried egg product, dried chicken cartlidge, and 20 or so minerals and vitamins.

Now he eats canned tuna, salmon, cheddar cheese, american cheese slices (to put his pills in), and cottage cheese, occasional steak, potatoes, and rice.

He takes 50mg Rimadyl every 12 hours, and Glucosamine 1500mg/ Chondroitin 1200mg once a day extended release.

He seems a little better after just one multivitamin, but it could be my hopefullness, because he is extremely sensitive to our mood and state of mind.

I am going to the vet with him tommorrow, but I don't think I'm going to put him on any more antibiotics unless I am given a compelling reason to.

ps. He eats dirt, especially from flower beds and potted plants, he also likes to eat akorns and dried oak leaves, he has a dog door, so stopping this would be very difficult.

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Postby Salandra » Wed Mar 14, 2007 12:06 am

John I'm not good with medical advice but I just wanted to add my prayers to the circle. I hope you find the problem and the cure very soon. Your boy is in good hands and you are a wonderful chow daddy. Blessings~
~ Sally
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Postby kiwani » Wed Mar 14, 2007 3:14 am

Re: "...he ate science diet on the vet's recommendation his whole life until 4 months ago, not a bite of it in 3 months."

The last Science Diet formula used (based on corn), is a recipe for disaster in my opinion, especially when compounded with heavy duty meds, and the cheeses you've been feeding would have decreased the zinc even further. The rest of what you're feeding seems imbalanced. The body needs to be able to *detox* all these meds, but when zinc is skewed, it becomes difficult.

There are research posts in the archives concerning dogs eating garden soil as a way to get minerals, etc. The Centrum contains poor quality ingredients/fillers. There are better pharmaceutical grade supplements. You need to find a vet who at least has a basic understanding of nutrition, instead of just selling Science Diet (profits from garbage). You need to understand what Rimadyl does to the digestive tract too. There are specialty dog nutrition forums where you can get other opinions as well.

Best wishes.

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Postby bubba » Wed Mar 14, 2007 5:50 am

My old chow [14 years ] had a condition called Pemphigus.
this can cause oozing sores in various parts of body depending on the particular type , Chow are known to exibit Pempligus, My Boy had it on his nose making it look like the condition known as collie nose,raw open oozing sore, it can show up other places as i recall like the ears/ feet and so forth ,
it takes a biopsy to be sure and then the prescription is Steroids [predestone], pretty high dose to start and this causes some trouble , not the leat of which the chow gets really "snappy"
before his biopsy they gage us some that was supposed to help , tetracycline and zink pills as i rexall, that did not help much. the predestone really cleared up the pemplegus on his nose but it made him eat and drink alot and as i said very short tempered and quick..

there have been sad cases where dogs on steroids bit and then what ?
,
i am glad i gave my fellow the Predestone that cleared up the pemp.. after the high inital dose was reduced he was easier to handle ..

i hope yor Chow Gets to feeling better .

some links
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/htm/bc/immid06.htm

http://www.vetinfo.com/dencyclopedia/depemphigus.html


http://www.vetinfo.com/dpemph.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pemphigus

http://www.upei.ca/cidd/Diseases/immune ... phigus.htm


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