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Miss Leonora, also known these days in the household as the vet's best customer has been limping after getting up for the past couple of days. At first, it was like, which leg is it? Probably left, no this time it is front right.... So, we took her to the vet this morning, after a couple of X-rays, she seems to have a little bone growth more so in her right elbow than left. As she was out, the vet took X-rays of her hips as well. They were not 100% but not too bad. The vet will have the X-rays looked at by a specialist. For now, no jumping, no running off the leash and Rimadyl for two weeks. The side effects, I was told was diarrea & vomitting, if I see either, stop medication immedeately. Poor baby, she only came off Temaril-P for her hotspots just 10 days ago. Was told to put her on Glucosamine 500mg& Condroytin400mg, twice a day too. I can't remember the last time I've seen a doctor, it must be more than 3yrs ago. But this Princess has been frequenting the vet practice a bit too often for my liking. Anyways, she is pooped from the vet visit and drugs.... Will update when we hear more from the good vet.

ooohhhh.. poor baby.. I will keep her in my thoughts.

Awwh, little leonora is gimpy?! She's so athletic. That's going to be tough to get her to calm down. At first, I thought she was predicting the weather with her limping - right leg = rain, left rain = overcast but sunny. Anyways, I recommend that you don't give her all the Rimadyl that was prescribed - two weeks on it is long for a young one. Think of it as aspirin with side effects. Once you notice that Leo is feeling better, I would stop it. But that's me and am only sharing. Also, regarding the supplements, I gave Zhu and give PB "sea jerkey". Stuff is great. I get it special ordered. Want to try some before you purchase?

I also would watch the Rimydal, give the smallest dose and as soon as the limping stops, stop giving it. It was never tested proberly and the tests that were done were misrepresented. I would also look back through the posts by Kiwani and supplement the diet with things to help the liver detoxify. Human grade supplements, like dandilion and such will help with this.

Re Rimadyl: I've read the previous posts & also surfed a bit. Scary stuff. Told to give her double dose for the first day, but, I'll just try to get her off it in a couple of days. She is whining a lot tonight, much more so than usual. The vet told me she cried when he tried to straighten her right elbow... We've let her sleep on the ground floor for the past few nights. Although she will bark if a not so close neighbour parks in front w/ his loud "modern" music on , that does less harm than her running down the stairs in the scope of things... So it probably is elbow dysplasia, as the vet was saying good thing we needn't worry about the offsprings as we had her spayed..... I wish she would sleep on a dog bed, but as she won't even sleep on a bathmat, investing in an oethopedic bed probably would only add to the other dust gatherers in the basement.....

Oh bless her, poor little love!

Funny, LEO wanted to come upstairs to the bedroom last night. Typical, isn't it? She is still whining a bit. I wonder if it is the elbows or Rimadyl? I did give her another 100mg tablet this morning as I wasn't sure. If she reacts, at least I won't be asleep. On her morning walk, she wanted to zoomie, three attempts!!, and it was a pain trying to calm her down by telling her to sit & wait. This is much more than usual. She wanted to zoomie in the house last night as well playing w/ my delinquent husband. He was claiming she is OK as she wants to play. I wonder why I married that man sometimes... Having a dog who doesn't understand vet's instruction is understandable, but a husband......Arrrgh!!!

In defense of your husband, had I not listened to a Vet 9 years ago I wouldn't be having trouble with Vets and groomers 9 years later and if I had listened to a vet a year ago Pekoe would have been buried 6 months ago. There's a few more in between. I never listen to Vets I hear what they have to say, use as little medication as possible, through the rest in the trash then use my own judgment on how Pekoe is acting.

Dr Jagels is the only Vet I listened to somewhat but I usaly threw his meds in the trash also.

hi i am in the uk i have had the same probelm with one of the twins.he has had to have xrays and they found one of the bones was bigger than the other. my vet advised no walking or ruff play till further notice he also said we will just keep an eye on it and if it didnt clear up in time we could be looking at going to a specialist who will put dye into the gaps in all his leg joints to see whats happening in there.that was over a month ago and he is still limping but only slightly.the medication that ive been given is metacalm oral suspension for dogs the dose is 17kg to be given once a day.

Hello,

I'am from the Netherlands and Judy from the UK told me about this topic.

First; Leonora is beautifull!

Our Chow has had 3 knee operations. She twice broke her knee ties on the left side. Since that time she is limping, and we had no choice, we have to use Rimadyl. Twice a day a half tablet.

One month ago my vet ask me to try a new and cheaper medicin called Carprodyl. The tablets are smaller and not so harmfull as Rimadyl says my vet. Does somebody now this new medicin?

Gerrie

Poor little Leo!! My first thought when I read your post was: what about zoomies??? How do you stop that? I read on and got the answer
Give her giant hugs from us!

Sue, sorry about your boy, I hope he gets better really soon.

JJ, I've never heard of that but I'm sure one of the others will have. How did JJ break her leg? I'ma lways so nervous about that whith some of Special's "special" play moves!

Oh, Leo! Do be careful! You must not do the zoomies for now! We know it can be tough but you need to get better!

Shiloh and Mr. N

Chowfrnd88, JJ didn't break her knee twice, (Bad translationbook ) but the kneeties. The flexible roes that lie over the knee. JJ pulls them in two.

JJ has a very high pain level, I think all the Chows have that. She also walks on 4 legs when on of the kneeties was damaged. We had to place here in a small bench after the operations because she will use all her legs immidiatly.

Samantha was limping one Friday when I came home from work. I assumed she and Ping did a couple rounds and decided to keep a close eye on her over the weekend. I found some aspirin Saturday at Petsmart called Vetrin Canine Aspirin by Farnam. I gave her a dose when I got home and another that night before bed. She seemed much better on Sunday and she was limping badly the day before. I kept her on a half dose until Tuesday. I don't know whether the aspirin helped her or if she just "pulled something" and it got better, but it sure seemed like the pills helped.

Samantha's problem may be different since she's much older, but thought I'd pass along what helped her. Here's what the website says about the aspirin...(I used the large dog ones)
"These chewable, roast beef flavor aspirin tablets help to relieve the pain and inflammation associated with injuries, arthritis, surgery or hip dysplasia. Choose 100 mg tablets for small and medium breed dogs; 325 mg tablets for large and giant breed dogs."

I hope Leo is doing better...gotta cut down on the zoomies for now.

Got a call from the vet. The specialist agrees w/ him, there are problems in both elbows, right more severe than left. Was told to keep her on Rimadyl for full 14 days and if the problem, the limping, is still there he will refer me to the specialist. It has been a week since we saw the vet, she is still limping. The worst bit is when she gets up, but on Sunday she was limping throughout the day. Her right paw gets more dirty as she is dragging it a bit.... She still wants to zoom, and sometimes attach me from the frustration of being on the leash - yeap, it happened again this morning . Mecation & supplement wise, in the morning - 100mg Rimadyl, 1/2tsp SeaMeal, 500mg Glucosamine & 400mg Condroitine, 500mg Ester-C, 2 dollops Yogurt, at night - SeaMeal, G&C, Ester-C, Balanced-50 B-Complex + sometimes Salmon Capsules, bit of cottage cheese. The tables are mixed in w/ food and she takes them fine. I've been kinda weepy watching her limp. I'm sure she so misses the playgroup.... Oh, well, will try to keep her calm as much as possible. Short walks w/ plenty of rest stops....

Poor LEO. Too bad they don't tell us gals about the Y gene denial thing. My husband sounds like yours, Chika! And there's little satisfaction in I told you so, especially when our furkids are negatively affected. Keep a stiff upper lip, you will get through this, I promise!

Re: "She still wants to zoom, and sometimes attach me from the frustration of being on the leash - yeap, it happened again this morning"

Hyperactivity and increased aggression are just two of the adverse behavioral effects of Rimadyl, (because the med interferes with certain chemistry). There might be a link to the *full* listing of Rimadyl's adverse effects in the archives, including which ones need to be reported to the doctor.

There's a high percentage of elbow dysplasia in Chows, and a *variety* of causes. Some of the cartilage is supposed to model into bone at a certain stage of growth, but sometimes an edge chips off or wedges in the joint. The Rimadyl masks pain and increases activity, but it won't stop the damage caused by a possible bone chip rattling loose in the joint.

You've mentioned that she's recently grown *taller*. *Censored Word* hormones close the growth plates, so her age at spaying, and her high activity level, might be the contributing factors in this situation. If it's difficult keeping her inactive, you might ask the doctor about wrapping her leg.

Hope there's some improvement by now. Best wishes to Leo!

Thank you everyone. I am trying to get her off Rimadyl, but after seeing her limp, I go "OK, one more day...". Yes, I am weak. So after a week, she is no better, if any a bit worse in her limping. I wonder if I took her off medication, the pain will make her less active and do her more good? I am starting to think only a week more for the pills to run out and get a referral... Keeping a hawkish eye on tummy conditions. Kiwani, I was thinking that her high zoomie need was from not being let off leash in the tennis court & allowed to run around. She is a ON-OFF dog. Bouts of energy & activity followed by sudden powersave mode, which was very noticable in puppy playgroups, which she isn't allowed to attend anymore But thank you very much for the heads-up. I did another read up of the side-effects on the web, and sure enough they(hyperactivity & aggressiveness) were listed. I missed them the first time around. Thanks again.

Hello Leo's Mum,

As I mentioned on my previous post to you, it would be wise to take her off the Rimadyl earlier than what her Rx states. As Kiwani mentioned, Rimadyl could mask the underlying cause. Similiarly, aspirin does not cure a headache or whatever pain one is seeking relief, it is simply an aide to help the pain not be so intense. Keeping her on the Rimadyl is not going to cure Leo's limping. What would benefit from taking her off of it versus going an extra week is seeing if the supplements are working or doing some good - can't really gauge if she's on the Rimadyl.

http://www.srdogs.com/Pages/rimadylfr.html


I read through some of the terrible stories related to Rimadyl and yes, I am getting her off it starting tomorrow morning. Thank you, Lou. Thank you, everyone. I was keeping her on it for the anti-inflamatory bit, but I would rather try the Glucosamine&Controitine route, even if it takes a bit longer. When I see the specialist, I am going to inquire about acupuncture as well.

Also remember that Pets Unlimited, which you visited when you were choosing a vet for baby Leo, does have a holistic program if your vet does not.

Poor Leo and poor you, this has to be so tough on both of you. I can get some good help from the specialist. When do you get to see the specialist? Big hugs to both of you!!

Re: "I wonder if I took her off medication, the pain will make her less active and do her more good?"

There are *other* pain relieving meds which inhibit inflammation, without interfering with the body's ability to regulate it's own chemistry, the way Rimadyl does. There are other pain relief meds with a sedating effect, instead of an excitatory effect. As previously mentioned, adverse behavioral effects, such as hyperactivity or increased aggression, while on Rimadyl, are due to that med's interference of certain regulatory biochemistry.

Every body metabolizes meds differently, so no med can be the best choice for everybody. Months ago, we discussed Leo having a lower tolerance for frustration, and higher excitatory chemistry - so Rimadyl might have an excitatory side effect for *her* biochemistry, and not be the best choice.

Getting back to the topic of 'zoomies' - they are a way the body *discharges* certain stress chemistry. Whether they are occurring 'much more than usual' due to curtailing her exercise, or as an *excitatory* side effect of Rimadyl, the fact remains that her elbow problem won't be helped by all that activity. Another med might be a better choice for her biochemistry.

All best wishes...

Well, I am sorry to here about another one with displasia, this is more common than most know, I have been preaching about this for a couple of years now and nobody wants to listen. I figure Elbow Displasia in Chows is somewhere between 75-80%. Depending on what is wrong, she could be fine later on with a suppliment like Synovi G3, that is if it is only Grade I Degenerative Joint Desease, if it's Grade II DJD she may still be OK on the suppliment until she gets older, then she may do some limping again. All Chows are different as to how much discomfort they can stand, so some limp more than others. If the joint did not form properly it may require surgery. Rimadyl I don't like at all, not good!

I would suggest sending the X-rays in to OFA for evaluation, it only cost $30, and release the information to the public, that way there is record for other breeders to see whom the parents were so they can avoid problems in breeding. In fact anyone whom has limping Chows that has them x-rayed should send the x-rays to the OFA for evaluation and release the results to the public. The OFA is a tool for responsable breeders to use to make decisions about breeding within lines, unfortunately breeders keep the results restricted when a dog does not pass, this only cause the problem to get worse. A lot of vets are not really qualified to judge what class a Chows hips and Elbows fall under either, another good reason to send them to the OFA for evaluation.

One other thing, people need to quit spaying and neutering these young puppies, it has been found to lead to growth problems. Females should always go through there first heat cycle regardless of age, males should wait until they appear to be mature.

Red Dragon wrote:Well, I am sorry to here about another one with displasia, this is more common than most know, I have been preaching about this for a couple of years now and nobody wants to listen. I figure Elbow Displasia in Chows is somewhere between 75-80%. Depending on what is wrong, she could be fine later on with a suppliment like Synovi G3, that is if it is only Grade I Degenerative Joint Desease, if it's Grade II DJD she may still be OK on the suppliment until she gets older, then she may do some limping again. All Chows are different as to how much discomfort they can stand, so some limp more than others. If the joint did not form properly it may require surgery. Rimadyl I don't like at all, not good!

I would suggest sending the X-rays in to OFA for evaluation, it only cost $30, and release the information to the public, that way there is record for other breeders to see whom the parents were so they can avoid problems in breeding. In fact anyone whom has limping Chows that has them x-rayed should send the x-rays to the OFA for evaluation and release the results to the public. The OFA is a tool for responsable breeders to use to make decisions about breeding within lines, unfortunately breeders keep the results restricted when a dog does not pass, this only cause the problem to get worse. A lot of vets are not really qualified to judge what class a Chows hips and Elbows fall under either, another good reason to send them to the OFA for evaluation.

One other thing, people need to quit spaying and neutering these young puppies, it has been found to lead to growth problems. Females should always go through there first heat cycle regardless of age, males should wait until they appear to be mature.

We've discussed Rimadyl and its problems several times now and I think most of us agree at this point that it should only be used with extreme caustion and for as limited a time as possible.

OFA evaluations would be helpful for most of us with chows with hip, elbow and knee problems. But a lot of us have rescue chows, no papers, no idea of genetics etc. So it would be better if breeders stop hiding inferior evaluations particularly when they sell "pet" quality animals to people who decide to breed them anyway. Maybe there needs to be a OFA database cross referenced with DNA samples for all the xrays which will give a better picture of the problem. The University of Minnesota is developing such a data base because of a certain type of stomach cancer, maybe the OFA can begin working with them? You would think that in today's world of high technology different agencies can work together to improve the over all health of the breeds?

And I as well as some others on this forum agree that young neutering and spaying may be causing some problems. But as my vet told me, there really isn't any proof about this yet, and until there is a study or two done there won't be any determinative proof. Such a study would have to get over the notion that neutering and spaying makes more passive pets, (not something I've really seen) so it may be a long time in coming.