UTI - Urinary Tract Infection

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kingalls
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UTI - Urinary Tract Infection

Postby kingalls » Sat Nov 10, 2007 7:46 pm

I have read the posts regarding Mabel, Millie, and Ms. Leo regarding their problems with UTI.
Shiloh is in antibiotics for her 3rd UTI. In the past I have had problems with trying to give her her pill but this time around, I'm being more straight foward with giving her the pills. I'm putting it down her throat. The first couple of times it was difficult but she's becoming more cooperative.
We didn't see that she had a UTI - i.e., blood in her urine. This time it was a series of waking up to her barking to be let out to go pee at 2AM or 3AM. This was very unusal so I took her to the vet. She had alot of blood in the sample they took, the white blood count was high, etc. Her vet recommended a Royal Canin SO canned and kibble for her diet - nothing else. No treats, etc. I asked about giving her cranberry and he said I could do that but that the diet change was better.
So I've been checking alot of different websites regarding the appropriate diet for canines with UTI.
I read that UTI is caused by bacteria and that the treatment like antibiotics needs to be administered long enough to get rid of the bacteria (i.e., the diet doesn't get rid of it). Most antibiotics are given for 10 days but this site http://www.b-naturals.com/Sep2004.php recommends a longer period. (My problem is that this site is also promoting their own product - even though what is being said makes sense.)
While the vet suggests just giving her the Royal Canin, I'm reading about providing yogurt and cottage cheese, cranberry capsules, etc.
The b-naturals site says: Evidence shows that diet does not cause urinary tract infections. Prescription diets do not to help in treating urinary tract infections. I always encourage dog owners to feed the best diet they can, as this helps with the overall system of the dog.
These diets would include raw diets, home cooked diets or premium dog foods with fresh food added (animal proteins, such as meat, dairy products and eggs). Please do not be led to believe that a different brand of kibble or a prescription diet will help in the case of a UTI or struvite crystals.


Layla, Judy, Chika - what specific diet advise did your vets give? Was it a short term change in diet or a "from now on" change like Shiloh's vet recommends.
We are going to reduce the amount of extra protein in the diet - little or no chicken meat added to the canned food, an occasional chicken jerky piece...
Have you modified the diet any - like giving yogurt or cottage cheese on a weekly basis?
Are they on a special diet and, if yes, will this be a permament change? (I'm not keen on keeping them on Royal Canin).
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Postby Layla » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:25 pm

I'm taking Millie to a holistic vet this week as I'm really not happy with how to manage these longterm Karen. My regular vet has never recommended any food to me apart from to say that Millie should be feed a good quality diet (no idea what that means!) Millie's recent course of antibiotic were for 30 days!!!
I took Kiwani's advice & give Millie Mannose supplements daily (Mannose is the active part of cranberry that assists in good bladder health) She also has probiotics daily. I have switched her diet to one that happens to have apple cider vinegar. This is a bonus, as I hear that is good for UTI's (mine disliked it in the water, although lots of chows seem to accept it well) I also keep her hair down their clipped short & keep her clean.

I don't really know about Royal Canin except to say I'd not feed it! I can let you know what the holistic vet has to say if you'd like. let me know.

Best to health to Shiloh (& Mr N of course!)
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Postby kiwani » Sun Nov 11, 2007 4:57 pm

Re: "I have switched her diet to one that happens to have apple cider vinegar. This is a bonus, as I hear that is good for UTI's"

If the e-coli infection thrives in an acidic pH, the vinegar won't help. Some infections *create* and thrive in an alkaline pH, so it's important to know the type of bacteria involved, and the urine pH (using test strips).

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Postby kingalls » Sun Nov 11, 2007 6:58 pm

Which Mannose suppliment do you give, how much, and how often? Do you use the power or capsule?
Probiotics - I take that to mean something like plain yogurt. Do you give that daily or weekly?
Please keep us posted on Millie's visit with the holistic vet and the recommendations.
I'll be calling the vet tomorrow to find out what kind of bacteria was found.
It sounds like the diet should promote a lower pH level. The Royal Canin has lower protein levels % wise but I don't like the fact that it says it contains "chicken by-products".
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Postby Layla » Sun Nov 11, 2007 9:57 pm

I'm hoping to get a better understanding of how much to supplement Millie from this vet. At the moment I give 1 capsule of both mannose & the probiotics daily. I'm not keen on giving yogurt a I wanted to be surer of the amount she gets (is surer a word!?!) I got them both at supersuplements & the probiotics have to be in the fridge :D

Thanks Kiwani - I should have mentioned that about the ACV.

I will be inquiring more about diet as well if you'd be interested karen?

As a side note, Millie never displayed the common symptoms of a UTI either. She didn't drink more, she actually pee'd LESS & there was never blood..... Just a change in energy levels & my gut feeling she was poorly.
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Postby LEO's mum » Sun Nov 11, 2007 11:25 pm

My vet told me there are so many causes of UTI and cannot pinpoint to one. I can tell you from experience that it can be mechanical and a little operation could help as it did for me, thanks to NHS.....

As for cranberry tablets as preventative, the vet said there is no scientific study done for dogs, but it should help keep the urine acidic thus keep the germs down and won't hurt. So for me, if it works for us, it should work for them to keep the bacteria down as I think e-coli is the most common bacteria that comes to mind. I try to remember to give LEO a tablet a day, must admit I do forget from time to time. If I see her minding her private bits, I jump back to the 1/day routine. The recommended amout for humans is 3 tablets a day(and yes, I do nick them from time to time for myself if/when I feel uncomfortable myself as precaution), so really LEO at 55lbs can have 1.5~2 tablets, I suppose....but a tablet a day is a bit easier.... The yogurt, which I've gone off as LEO has gone off the taste unless its from a fresh tub(ie she does not like the acidity I suppose) and I got tired of finishing off the tub myself. I used to give her two dollops off of table spoon, so probably about 3 tablespoons per meal. That was more for the acidity in urine than for probiotic values in my thought....

As Kiwani says, using PH tester regulary is the only easy way to monitor the acidity. I must admit, I've been too lazy to go get the papers.....

The white blood count being high usually means there is an infection. So, on it's own that doesn't mean much. The type of bacteria in sample urine should determine which kind of anti-biotics would fight them best.

Juniper has written specific meds/suppliments for Sheena which worked for her. I tried to search it up, but so far miserably failed.....

Was it Ash count that was important that both Kiwani & Juniper mentioned.....?

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Postby kiwani » Mon Nov 12, 2007 6:55 am

Re: "As for cranberry tablets as preventative, the vet said there is no scientific study done for dogs, but it should help keep the urine acidic thus keep the germs down and won't hurt. So for me, if it works for us, it should work for them to keep the bacteria down as I think e-coli is the most common bacteria that comes to mind."

Except that using cranberry tablets to acidify doesn't help an e-coli infection which thrives in an acidic pH.

There are different infections being discussed in this thread, just as certain stones form in an acidic pH, while others form in an alkaline pH, and for various reasons. Having members comparing treatment notes is helpful only when all are discussing the same type of bacteria involved.

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Postby kingalls » Tue Nov 13, 2007 9:25 pm

I talked to Shiloh's vet today. He said it's a proteus metabulas (sp?) problem. She is currently on Baytril and wants to extend the dosage for a month. That sounds good to me. So, the vet is strongly recommending the Royal Canin So diet. I'm not convinced - especially since she (nor Mr. N) like the food.
So, I'm taking the route of:
a) significant reduction in the amount of protein in the diet (very small amount of baked chicken added to the Wellness canned food (beef), maybe one or two meager treat bits)
b) adding cottage cheese (which they both love) and some plain yogurt to their diet

Even though I think the current vet is better than the ones they have been to so far, I will still do research on this site and on the internet to figure out what to do.

I hope that others will contribute regarding their Chowlings issues with UTI and their vets various recommendations.
As kiwani noted, the posts regarding UTI were regarding the different types of UTI causes - i.e., e-coli bacteria vs ? and how it's handled may take different measures.
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Postby Judy Fox » Wed Nov 14, 2007 1:57 am

UTI's are horrible.

Mabel's last bout has cleared up now. The vet prescribed special food for her but Mabel could not tolerate it - it made her violently sick to we could not feed it to her. So the vet then prescribed "Royal Canin" dog meal - kibble -whatever you call it. Mabel does not like it but I slip a handfull of it into the bowl of their normal dog mixer and it does go.

I also give them both a cranberry capsule. I bought these from the health shop.

I worry a lot about Mabel's UTI bouts and I check her pants every day to see if I can spot blood there.
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Postby kiwani » Wed Nov 14, 2007 6:36 am

Re: "He said it's a proteus metabulas (sp?) problem."

Proteus mirabilis. That's the one which changes the pH of the urine to alkaline, and it also is involved with forming certain stones. Any stones can become embedded with the bacteria and can reseed the problem. There are excerpts on these in Judy's last UTI thread.

If the prescription diet is expected to dissolve any of those stones present, the bacteria embedded within them will be released too.

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Postby puddinglove » Thu Nov 15, 2007 2:31 pm

Pudding had a bout of UTI in September. It was horrible and worried me to no end. The holistic vet said it was alkaline pH, found blood and stones in the urine, so presribed food and anti-biotics.

I've gotten the pH papers to try to keep her urine within the right range, and have been supplementing with cranberry, fish oil and probiotics (to boost immune). What do you think, Kiwani? I know there are so many things that could cause stones, I just want to support her system to minimize problems. The one thing I know is that I don't like the prescription food (it smells really funny) or the antibiotics (it lowered her immune system, and she got a wart afterwards!).

Sorry, I also posted similar questions in another thread...
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Postby kiwani » Thu Nov 15, 2007 4:33 pm

Re: "What do you think, Kiwani? I know there are so many things that could cause stones, I just want to support her system to minimize problems."

I've posted research excerpts before, showing that the bacteria itself *creates* the alkaline urine, and that it can create stones embedded with bacteria. The 'bacteria-filled stones' need to be dealt with too. Another common denominator that I've posted about before, is that females spayed too early are more *vulnerable* to the 'stickiness' of this bacteria, because estrogen plays an important role too. You'll see the word 'fimbriae' in the second excerpt below, that's like hairy tentacles these bacteria have allowing them to gain a foothold.


Excerpt #1:

"Proteus mirabilis, which is a member of the enterobacteriaceae. It is a Gram neg. rod, motile (swarming) and is widely distributed in nature. It is easily detected in feces of most animals but is hardly ever found in high numbers unless the normal intestinal microflora is deranged. It principally is associated with otitis externa (ear inflammation) in dogs and UTIs in dogs and other species, including humans. A principal virulence/diagnostic factor is its high urease content, which during the infectious process produces substantial, histotoxic ammonia. Proteus also is often associated with meat spoilage."



Excerpt #2:

"Scientists now have inside information to use in the fight against Proteus mirabilis -- a nasty bacterium that can cause kidney stones, as well as hard-to-treat urinary tract infections.

"E. coli causes urinary tract infections in otherwise healthy individuals, but P. mirabilis causes more infections in those with 'complicated' urinary tracts. In cases where stones form, the bacteria can become resistant to antibiotics," says Harry L.T. Mobley, Ph.D., professor and chair of microbiology and immunology in the U-M Medical School.


Mobley is an expert on urease, an enzyme produced by P. mirabilis, which breaks down urea in the urinary tract, reduces the acidity of urine and leads to the formation of kidney or bladder stones. Once a stone begins to form, bacteria stick to the stone and live within its layers, where they are protected from antibiotics.


When Pearson examined the genomic sequence data for Proteus mirabilis, she discovered an explanation for the bacterium's "stickiness." "This bacterium has an unusually high number of genes that encode for 15 different adherence factors or fimbriae on its surface," Pearson explains. "All these different fimbriae help the bacterium stick to bladder cells, catheters, kidney stones or each other.


It's not unusual for bacteria to have several ways of attaching to surfaces, but I've never heard of one with 15 different adherence factors before."


"Over the course of 20-plus years of laboratory research, we had painstakingly identified four P. mirabilis fimbriae," says Mobley. "Suddenly, here were 11 more predicted in the genome sequence data. We couldn't believe it."



In future research, Pearson will use gene microarrays to identify the Proteus mirabilis genes that are turned on, or expressed, during the infection stage. Genes involved in the infection process will be prime targets for future vaccine development, according to Pearson, although she says that years of additional research will be needed before vaccines could be commercially available."
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/20 ... 125023.htm

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Postby puddinglove » Thu Nov 15, 2007 8:29 pm

So the probiotics would be helpful keeping the good/bad bacteria ratio, and then also maybe an herb like uva ursi to keep the smoothness of the urethra, and reduce the likelihood of the bacteria sticking?

Pudding had to be spayed by 6 months due to an adoption requirement... I had not read by then that early spaying had disadvantages, so we had it done around 5.5 months. She is quite tall for her size.
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Postby kiwani » Sat Nov 17, 2007 11:19 am

Re: "So the probiotics would be helpful keeping the good/bad bacteria ratio..."
The probiotics would certainly help, glutamine is also important for a healthy gut lining. We've had threads on both of these supplements and other posts about building-up the immune system. Keep in mind that monthly meds like heartworm, plus other meds, have an effect on the gut immune system too, as do ingesting certain treats, drinking out of ponds, licking soil, noshing on dead critters, etc.

It's also important, especially when bathing spayed dogs, to clean their *Censored Word* area with wipes before you even get them in the tub. Use a spray attachment for bathing them standing up, rather than just sit-dunking them in dirty bath water. You don't want to make it easier for fecal debris to deposit near the vulva.


Re: "...and then also maybe an herb like uva ursi to keep the smoothness of the urethra, and reduce the likelihood of the bacteria sticking?

Uva ursi has more of an astringent effect rather than a 'mannose' effect, and its tannins can upset the stomach. There are other side effects, and it shouldn't be used if there are kidney problems. It's considered to be mildly antiseptic, and better suited to other type infections than the 'proteus mirabilis'.

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Postby threedogjeep » Sun Nov 18, 2007 10:02 am

Leela had a UTI back in the summer...we saw the blood. I take her to a holistic vet.....we did antibiotics for I think 10 days and she said to give her a cranberry pill every day to help prevent further UTI occurances.
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Postby puddinglove » Sun Nov 18, 2007 6:08 pm

Thanks so much for sharing your knowledge, Kiwani!
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Postby kingalls » Wed Nov 21, 2007 5:07 pm

kiwani,
thanks for the info on probiotics. I'm pasting the topic link here so that others researching the UTI topic will find it.
Probiotics:
http://www.chowchow.org/forum/viewtopic ... highlight=
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Postby bama » Thu Nov 22, 2007 5:02 am

Great post...
I'd like to add this tidbid:

So many times, I read posts declaring that one of the chowdren has had several UTI's lately, or over a long period, or both.
Also, where antibiotics are used over a long period to remedy an infection.
Here's what could be happening...
Chances are it is not "several" infections, but the same infection that was never completely eradicated.
How does this happen?
Due to expense, most vets, do not automatically run the necessary tests to pin-point the type of existing bacteria, therefore prescribing the most effective anti-biotic is hit and miss. Instead, they prescribe an inital anti-biotic,
assuming you will contact them again if that anti-biotic didn't do the trick. The intial anti-biotics will probably have helped, thereby diffusing the symptoms. Your thinking your dog is cured...until only a short time later, the symptoms reoccur. What, Another infection??? No, it's the same one. So, back to the vet, right? The vet will either proceed with another round of the same anti-biotics or opt with the process of illimination, prescibing a different anti-biotic. Meantime, the bout with UTI is dragging on and on, your dog is becoming more and more immune to the anti-biotics, making the infection even harder to wipe out.
As I said, there are two tests needed that should be done
in combination;
The Urine Culture **AND** Sensitivity Test
This will define that there is bacteria, and define the particular bacteria. This is the only way the most effective anti-biotic can be prescribed in the first place.
Good luck all!
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Postby Mia » Mon Nov 26, 2007 7:22 pm

Hi guys!

Sorry, I have been gone for awhile. I broke my leg, so I have time and now I am back.

I have three separate chow chow and Sharpei breeders as friends and have been vaccuming every bit of information out of them that I can regarding chow chow health (Shar peis are so similar.)

I have recently also been to many dog shows and have found a wonderful supplement called TriCranC, which has cranberry and other sources of vitamin C. It seems to have made such a difference with Mia.

So, I wanted to pass that on.
Mia
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Postby kingalls » Mon Dec 17, 2007 7:44 pm

Shiloh completed her month long antibiotic prescription (Baytril) and had a follow up check-up (lab tests). She is A-Okay!! No UTI, no crystals - she's completely clear \:D/ .
We modified her diet (which means Mr. N's diet, too). They are on the prescription Royal Canin SO kibble. Their breakfest meal consists of one can of Wellness Beef mixed with brown rice and a few pieces of baked chicken mixed in a fair amount of water with Omega-3. I split this between the two of them.
We still give them treats (lamb lung or chicken jerky) but in very small quantities. Fortunately, they don't seem to know the difference in a big piece or a little piece :lol: .
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Postby Chow Chow Mama » Tue Dec 18, 2007 3:46 am

I'm glad Shiloh is healthy again!
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UTI Urinary Tract Infection

Postby Clin » Fri Mar 06, 2015 7:24 am

Urinary tract infection is caused by bacterial infection in the urinal tract that leads to problems while urinating as well as pain in the lower abdomen and back. The main cause of UTI is bacterial attack that are present near the *Censored Word* and rectum. However, even unhygienic condition of urinals can even cause UTI. *Censored Word* intercourse is not the primary cause.

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UTI Urinary Tract Infection

Postby AlexmenKa » Sun Sep 25, 2016 7:17 am

....

No idea as to post #2 what mostly of the Chlamydia type even means . Theres one Chlamydia. It is almost always asymptomatic for men. So it is not likely to be the cause of urethritis. Points, however for at least saying you should see a doctor.

PS if you have a urinal tract per the subject line infection call a plumber. Urinary tract, see a doctor.Well...

First of all, doctors tend to diagnose Urethritis, so they dont have to openly diagnose a STD. Well known example: during the Vietnam War, most soldiers were diagnosed with Urethritis, not Gonorrhea .

Second: following bugs are categorized for causing Urethritis:
E. Coli
Chlamydia
Gonococcus
Trichomonas
Herpes simplex

Third: Chlamydia is the most diagnosed STD in the USA.

Fourth: the prevalence of Chlamydia is reported to be 0.7 among females and one third of that for males in USA. Still a pretty high number for males

Fifth: its exactly the opposite, of what you stated, Chlamydia is often asymptomatic for females, but not for males. One of the reasons, why one catch it easily with casual *Censored Word*, getting a BJ, the GGs just dont know.

SIXTH: old geezer, that I am, I know pretty well, what I am talking about, I caught Chlamydia 7 times during my lifetime, one of it a severe case, responding only on the 3rd antibiotics combination.
And I can tell you, it feels far different than asymptomatic


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