Grooming & Sedation

Topics, guidelines and tips for coat and skin care and grooming Chow Chows.

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Jeff&Peks
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Grooming & Sedation

Post by Jeff&Peks »

Anyone ever have their Chow sedated for grooming, I have always been against sedation but I was talking to the Vet at Petsmart (Baniff sp) She said it would be no problem, the Vet would sedate Pekoe then the groomer would come over to the office, they are both in the same store.
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Post by Zhuyos mom »

No! No! No! No! No! No! No! No, Jeff. Don't let them sedate Pekoe for grooming. Remember that story about a dog that died at PetsMart grooming in the Northern Cal area? It's because they sedated the dog... it was a small dog. But I would advise against it.

If you want Pekoe groomed, I've offered up my local PetsMart for you and Pekoe to come up and get showered and shined. Remember when you used to live up here and was searching for a groomer, I spoke to the grooming Manager and she was open to Pekoe coming in and you being there. They've not once sedated a chow they've groomed. They prefer not to.

Anyways, nix the sedation idea. They'll shoot her up with something and you will be defenseless.
Last edited by Zhuyos mom on Sun Jun 18, 2006 10:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jerryo »

As a new Chow person, and never having met Pekoe, I'm certainly NO expert on this, but it seems like a really lame idea to me. If anyone suggested they would have to sedate Benny to give him a bath and trim, I would be down the street so fast I'd leave skid marks. From what I have read Chows have a lower tolerance to sedatives and ansethetic than typical dogs, and a groomer who wants to sedate their client may just be too rough to deal with in the first place. I'd look around for a new groomer. There should be plenty in San Diego who understand Chows.
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

Lou I remember your offer but you also know Pekoe, there is no way it doesn't matter who it is Pekoe is going to allow anyone, Vet or Groomer to ever put their hands on her. I've heard it a million times from vets and groomers, after I explain to them how bad she is they always say, No problem we know how to treat them and we have handled much worse then your Chow our staff are experts with that sort of thing, once I bring her in the story changes, oh my god I have never seen anything this bad we can't do anything with her, GET OUT and DON'T COME BACK. It just happened this week when I took Pekoe to the vet for her nose, I'm covered in blood people are running around screaming the Vet and staff hid behind the counter all this after they told me on the phone, no problem bring her in we are use to that type of dog our Vets have been doing this for years.

The morel is Pekoe really needs grooming she's a mess and its hot, The only reason I even mentioned sedation is because of all the times in the last six months that she has been sedated for her cancer treatments and there are Groomers that sedate. I don't want the groomer to do it that's why I thought Vet first then bring the Groomer in plus I'm allowed to stay, The vet understands (so she says) what I was talking about she even brought up the being careful with a Chow when you sedate. Actually I have been talking to her for almost a year just about every week when I go to petsmart she knows everything about Pekoe from the day we adopted her, Don't know why I didn't just bring Pekoe to her for the regular vet stuff.

Karen and I will be the only two to really understand each other when we talk about a Vet Visit, Even Mr. N can't be anywhere near as bad as Pekoe.
Last edited by Jeff&Peks on Sun Jun 18, 2006 3:41 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Zhuyos mom »

Jeff, why don't you hire a groomer to come to your house? There are beauticians who come to people's homes to do their hair and the such. I'm sure you can find a groomer to spend the day at your house... perhaps a mobile groomer, or just a groomer at PetsMart that Pekoe has smelled and met might want to do a freelance groom at your place. Maybe if Pekoe is at the comfort of her home, she'll be less frantic. Prior to going to the vet, have you tried Dr. Bach's Rescue Remedy on her yet? I forget if you did that route already. Anyways, like my first post mentioned, the dog that died was being groomed at PetsMart and the sedation was done at Baniff. I guess if you get Pekoe's sedative info from her vet (type and dosage), perhaps the Baniff vet can duplicate it.
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Post by Rogansmommy »

I wouldn't sedate Pekoe for a grooming session at Petsmart. That just sounds like a risk I wouldn't be willing to take. I'm not a big fan of the Petsmart vets or their grooming facilities. That being said (and including the fact that you and I always disagree)...

does the Oncologists office (that you trust) know of a groomer they would recommend? Typically, people of like technique recommend each other. If you can find one through them, then maybe Pekoe would be comfortable with it? I also agree with Lou about the Mobile Groomers.
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

Owell, Forget that idea , Petsmart + Banff + Sedation = Death, That idea is gone. I have seen the mobile groomers driving around and have given them a thought but if I can't comb her then I doubt they will be able to even if its at home. As I said I have always been against sedating for any reason I don't trust it no matter what the blend. I will just keep Throwing a towel over her head and having two people help me just to trim her butt. Grooming always comes up around this time of the year, Pekoe looks so bad people think she is being abused then some how she ends up looking ok after she has shed it all.
Last edited by Jeff&Peks on Sun Jun 18, 2006 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by jerryo »

I just remembered some advice I got from a groomer at Petsmart. You may have already tried this. I stopped by PetsMart to stock up on all the basic starter supplies the day Benny got me, and asked them about grooming which he needed badly as a former stray. She asked how he reacted to grooming and I didn't have a clue, so she suggested getting him used to the soundof the clippers before I brought him in for his appointment. She said to put some running clippers near him several times without even trying to touch him with them until he was comfortable with them. Then work up to holding them on him like a vibrator until he decided he liked them. It kinda made sense, so I bought a grooming set to take home and try it. It turned out that Benny has no problem with grooming, but the set came with all the stuff and even had a DVD of lessons on grooming. Maybe it would be possible to slowly work Pekoe up to the idea by starting with home haircuts by someone he already trusts. Good Luck
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Post by Zhuyos mom »

Jeff, we've known each other for years now, so no offense, I think you need to take the fantasy of having Pekoe professionally groomed, with no drama, out of your "Pekoe Honey-do" list. It's just a fantasy, Jeff... just a fantasy. Her show chow look is in her past. :P
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

Yeah but would life be with out fantasies and hope if it weren't for fantasizing about getting Pekoe groomed and wining the Ca. Lotto what else would there be in life.
The odds are worse for getting Pekoe groomed then winning the Lotto.

I thought about getting my own grooming set, Pekoe may look good with bald spots all over her it might start a new Chow fashion trend, The homeless Chow look. I think I might try the old fashion way, just put a bowl over her head and cut around it.
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Post by Auddymay »

Do they have self grooming places around you Jeff? Just having the correct tools makes all the difference. I need to get Lily in, but I have a feeling I'll be getting an arse-chewing for not keeping Lily's mane kempt. I think I'll try a home bath first, and if I still can't get it straight, walk to the groomer's for my come-upence.
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Post by sixchows »

Jeff
I think maybe Pekoe and OJ are brother and sister! He is definately the male version of just about every story of Pekoe I've read.

I try to bathe him myself and it becomes a game of russian roulette! LOL! He may stay still for getting sprayed with the hose on hot summer afternoon and may even let me get some shampoo on him....then he realizes that this seems a little girly and tries to take a few bites at me and run of as I spray him trying to get the shamppo off. In a few minutes he returns covered in dirt from rolling around on the ground and stays just out of reach.

The only way I get to finish is to pretend we're done and put everything away. When he comes to the side door I trap him on the stairs and try to hose him down. He doesn't like being towelled off either. He just rips the towel out my hands and throws it at my feet and stares at me. The only way to "groom" him is to try and pluck the loose hair when he's in the right mood. That mood changes quick though! My wife calls it "playing jenga", LOL!

His kids on the other hand are not so bad. Zeus loves the bath, the towel and the brushing. Zim loves the attention too but he's hard to work with as he keeps licking us in the face! Tongue slaps as we call them! Xena is OK but doesn't like getting sprayed with the hose too much. She also gets a little impatient and tries to cut the bath short. Koko is just a little weird! She loves the attention but sort of rolls onto her back in our arms like an upside down shark! She seems mesmerized by the experience!

Never have taken any of them to a groomer. I look at like this, they're not show dogs so as long as they are somewhat clean and brushed it's better than stressing them too much.
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Post by kingalls »

Jeff,
No sedatives...you need to find a groomer that will work with you and Pekoe. You will need to muzzle Pekoe. I know you risk Pekoe getting confused with your hand versus the muzzle. Believe me, with Mr.N's first visit it was scary! The indignant look in his eyes that someone else was touching him. If the groomer isn't a wimp, he/she will work with you. You just need to let them know. You will most likely need to be there the entire time. There may be some areas that only you can do. Mr. N's groomer cannot do the front part of his mane. Bascially, if she is within his sight he goes ballistic...we have finally figured out that if we position the table so that he can focus on another cat (oh, yeah!) or a dog then he is distracted.
With Mr. N's groomer, I lead him into the shop, pick him up (oh, my back!) and put him on the table, get his back end into the strap, muzzle on and the "noose" which hooks to the front bar which prevents him from turning, and put the muzzle on. The groomer and I work in unison - I have Mr. N's head on one side of the bar while the groomer works on the opposite. Then we switch positions. As for the front part of his mane...the groomer stands in front of him to get his attention while I brush and rake out the front of his mane.
When we are done, all the straps and muzzles come off. Mr. N has no problems with the groomer and sooo excited because he knows he's going home.
There has to be a groomer that Pekoe and you can go to....most likely not the commercial ones you might find at PetCo or PetSmart. Mr. N's groomer is an experienced, professional groomer that has groomed everything from show rabbits to show dogs, as well as a wolf-mix. She doesn't shy away from a challenge. :D
Depending on how much Pekoe needs to be groomed, I don't suggest sedation. If she has many mats that need to be shaved, then it may actually be less stress to be sedated lightly. Mr. N's groomer said that she has one client that gives her terrier Benedryl (not sure how much) prior to grooming appointments.
Most likely you will require at minimum of 2 glasses of wine when all is said and done. :D
Or just have it now after reading this long post... :lol:

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Post by Jeff&Peks »

just a test, i'm trying to see how you get the picture at the bottom of all your post. Do you have to go to photobucket everytime you post?

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/J ... 0046-1.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/J ... 000281.jpg" border="0"
alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>

<a href="http://photobucket.com" target="_blank"><img src="http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j37/J ... C04099.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket - Video and Image Hosting"></a>
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Post by kingalls »

You should be able to add this as part of your signature in your Profile.
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Post by Zhuyos mom »

Jeff&Peks wrote:just a test, i'm trying to see how you get the picture at the bottom of all your post. Do you have to go to photobucket everytime you post?
I had to ask Judy how to do it too. On your profile, paste the image path on your signature section (as Karen instructs). However, you can only post something like 240 words. That's why I only have Zhu's class picture on my signature line and PB's class picture will have to wait her turn. Meaning, it'll only take one photo's image path - usually areound 170 words.

Boy, that Pekoe of yours is a real looker!
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Post by Sharons Chows »

I sure think that Pekoe looks pretty in those pictures without being groomed
Even though I am not crazy about muzzles, they don't hurt our Chows and I would be much more in favor of them over sedation.

When Cheyenne came home in December, she would not let us get near her with a towel or any grooming tools. She still isn't nuts about being brushed but 2x a week she "allows" her prideful body to go through the process. And when she gets wet she will now alow us to lightly towel dry her.

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Post by Mandy »

So Jeff... Question for you...

Are you still taking her for cancer treatments or is she done with that? If you are, I bet that wonderful oncologist of yours would allow you to bring a groomer with you or groom her yourself while she is out cold for that. Then you could (please excuse the bad choice of words here) kill two birds with one stone.

I know you don't like to give Pekoe any more meds than she needs but have you considered getting her a prescribed sedative that you can give her before going to the groomers? When Chewie first had his surgery he was so bent out of shape, crying, trying frantically to get at his leg, banging his collar on everything, just terrified... I called the vet in tears and he prescribed Acepromanzine to calm him and I ran out to meet him in the middle of the night to get it. It worked wonders. I don't like drugging Chewie up but that time I feel like I did the right thing for him. There are always side effects and problems with medications but I think that avenue would be better than sedating her.

Anyway - good luck and let us know what you decide to do!
Last edited by Mandy on Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by ngraham »

Jeff&Peks wrote:Yeah but would life be with out fantasies and hope if it weren't for fantasizing about getting Pekoe groomed and wining the Ca. Lotto what else would there be in life.
The odds are worse for getting Pekoe groomed then winning the Lotto.

I thought about getting my own grooming set, Pekoe may look good with bald spots all over her it might start a new Chow fashion trend, The homeless Chow look. I think I might try the old fashion way, just put a bowl over her head and cut around it.
OMG Poor Pekoe. I wouldn't do the sedation either, but then again, it's easier for me to say that since the version of Pekoe that I have (Molly) is only 13 and a half weeks old. The older Molly gets, the more attention I pay to Jeff's posts about Pekoe and his suggestions for serving Pekoe. :)
Honestly, the Pekoe pictures are beautiful, Jeff. It's so nice to finally get to see pictures of Her Royal Highness.
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

Pekoe has one more treatment I think next week then I find out whats next, they thought she was done with the vaccines but found out she only had 7 treatments supposed to be 8 then I have a consultation on were we go from here. I would like for them to give her an MRI but they said that's not necessary right now. The reason I ask for an MRI is there are two people I talked to at the oncologist, one has a Chow with the same cancer as Pekoe the other a different breed, the lady with the Chow had the 8 shot series then a year later they did an MRI and found the cancer had returned, the other lady did the 8 shot series and has been coming back every 6 months for a vaccine shot, she is going on 3 years with no return of cancer. I would like to get an MRI then bring her in every 6 months but who knows what the Oncologist is going to say. There is no cure for Pekoe's cancer even though I keep saying gone, cured or last treatment, As the Oncologist has to keep reminding me, there is no cure for cancer its a matter of trying to keep it under control But in Pekoe's case hopefully we found it soon enough, I never really listen to them to me its do what you have to do just keep her alive.

Acepromanzine is what they give Pekoe at the Oncologist and that's what Petsmart Banff said they would give her. I don't really like the stuff because it is taking Pekoe over 2 days to come out of it. I guess Acepromanzine doesn't actually knock them out it just gets them stoned (Baniffs Words) but Pekoe is stumbling around for 2 days after taking the pill.

As for the wonderful Oncologist she may be ok but the other Doctors and staff don't have time to mess with Pekoe on the last visit I didn't give Pekoe her sedative and even though Pekoe didn't cause any problems when they brought her out they said don't bring her in unless you give her the sedative, its very dangerous working with Pekoe. They weren't exactly over joyed when I said I was going to bring her in for the vaccines. They are extremely busy in that hospital there is probably 50 dogs and cats plus emergencies all coming in at the same time for different treatments for different diseases, broken bones, bloat, Etc, they do the hard core stuff they don't have time to groom Pekoe, they did try to clean her up a little when she was gased. Pekoes Oncologest moved from the last Office to the hospitol, the office was much more relaxed but this place in like downtown county General it even looks like a huge hospitol I've always been use to the little vets office.
Last edited by Jeff&Peks on Sun Jun 18, 2006 8:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Post by Mandy »

Ahh... guess I misunderstood. I was thinking she was receiving a shot to sedate her. I hate having to use that type of treatment but from everything you have had to go through with her, it might be in her best interest (and your arms!) to sedate her for grooming. I will probably get blasted for saying that but grooming problems, matts and stuff can lead to all kinds of problems if not taken care of. I hope you can find something that works for you.

I did notice that chewie had a hard time coming off that too - we have only used it that one time but it took him until about 3pm the next day for him to wake up.

I thought you were about done with the treatments and were ready to go out to the next stage. Keep us updated on what's next. I hope the 6 month thing works out for you but yes like you said.... there is no cure. But being there for her and being by her side through all of this is the greatest thing you can do for her.
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

Its probably me thats confusing you becouse I'm always confused I never know whats going on, I know the shots bad but when they say sedate, Pill or shot it all sounds bad to me. So far I think its the shot that will kill them if given to much but she comes out of the shot in a few hours, the pills it seems like it takes days to come out of that so to me the pills seem like its a stronger dosage but I guess its safer, i may have been arguing with all these Vets for no reason.
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Post by Judy Fox »

Pekoe is beautiful - I like the picture of her on the decking - you could send that one to Mandy! :wink:
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Post by chowfrnd88 »

For us, it's the nail cliiping that's that way. He's getting better but whoever had him before let his dew claws get soooo curved over that I'm even afraid to tackle them. I'm not sure if I mentioned it, but when we had the sub vet, he had Special muzzled (Special just tends to be frightened when he's at the vet and squirms and that made the sub vet scared of him :roll: ). The muzzle did not work at all, he got out of it three times!! I think Special has some Harry Houdini powers! :wink:

Those are just gorgeous pics of Pekoe!! I like the deck shot also. I'm gald you asked about the signature picture, I was wondering that myself.
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Post by Sandie »

awww My Mufassa looks like your Pekoe ! What a beauty!!
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