lump on eyelid

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Rogansmommy
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lump on eyelid

Postby Rogansmommy » Mon Jan 16, 2006 12:57 pm

:? I took Rogue in to the vet this morning for a routine check-up (heartworm test and rabies vax). Since he needs to be muzzled, the vet tends to stay away from his face as much as possible. We have a system worked out, but the vets are usually still gun-shy. :roll: Today (thankfully), the vet was brave (I guess they are now getting comfortable, after 2 years) and decided to check his eyes. And there it was.

Rogue has a HUGE lump growing on his upper eyelid. It rolls under the lid, which is why I haven't seen it. It's not hurting him, nor has he been rubbing it. Everything else checked out so we were referred to a vet ophthalmologist because as our vet said, "It has to come out, but I don't feel comfortable doing it." Rogan has an appointment for January 28.

Has anyone seen these before? Rogan's always been a 'lumpy' dog but never near or on his eyes.
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Postby Roxana » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:40 pm

It could be entropian where they get ingrown eyelashes and this causes the eyelid to roll inwards. However, the vet would probably have been able to diagnose that fairly easily as it's pretty common.

As someone with a lot of experience with veterinary eye-doctors (my girl was diagnosed with glaucoma approx 3 years ago and she has since gone blind in both eyes) my advice is; try to get into the specialist ASAP. In my area there are not too many specialists so the wait was quite long. Not to scare you or anything, its probably just a growth or something, but you don't want to take any chances with their eyes & vision.

Good luck and keep us posted.

Roxana & Dakota

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Rogansmommy
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Postby Rogansmommy » Mon Jan 16, 2006 2:51 pm

It's definitely NOT entropian. My rottweiler has that (ironically) and Rogue has never had it. No, it's a growth; even my untrained eye knows that. I've got an appointment on January 28 (it was the earliest I could get) - it's less than 2 weeks so I think that's pretty good.

From what I looked up on the net, it could be cancerous, but there's only a 20% chance of that. I'll get the specialist to remove it and we'll see what happens from there.

Rogue's 8 and we've never had a health issue with him that has turned out to be bad (some close scares but nothing permanent). Hopefully, this is one of those close shaves.
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Postby Roxana » Mon Jan 16, 2006 3:44 pm

Dakota & I will be keeping our fingers & paws crossed for Rogan :lol:
Best wishes
Roxana & Dakota

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Postby ngraham » Mon Jan 16, 2006 6:40 pm

Koda and I are sending our prayers and best wishes also. Please keep us informed.
Nancy and Tai

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Postby Mandy » Mon Jan 16, 2006 7:56 pm

Hope it all goes well! Purple kisses from Chewie and Cayenne and we'll all be thinking about you!

Hugs

Mandy

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Postby kiwani » Mon Jan 16, 2006 8:58 pm

Re: "It rolls under the lid, which is why I haven't seen it."

---

Based on your description, I'm hoping it's the type mentioned below, also known as 'Tarsal Gland Adenoma' (benign).

Best wishes to Rogan.


Excerpt:
"Sebaceous gland adenoma - Most common lid tumor in dogs,frequently found in older dogs. Visible through the conjunctival surface and extend onto the eyelid. Should be removed.

The majority of canine eyelid tumors are benign. Those that appear histologically malignant tend to be infiltrative but rarely metastasize."
http://sacs.vetmed.ufl.edu/Ophtho/Basic ... Ophtho.htm

+

One more excerpt on Sebaceous Gland swellings: (plugged up gland/hormonal changes). As Roxana mentioned, if any ingrown follicles *plugged* the gland recently, they could have been what started the swelling too.

"CANINE SKIN: CYST - A cyst is an epithelium-lined cavity containing fluid or a solid material. They are smooth, well-circumscribed fluctuant-to-solid masses. Skin cysts are usually lined by adnexal epithelium (hair follicle, sebaceous, or apocrine) and filled with cornified cellular debris or sebaceous or apocrine secretions."

http://compepid.tuskegee.edu/syllabi/pa ... ter10.html
Last edited by kiwani on Tue Jan 17, 2006 6:59 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby kingalls » Mon Jan 16, 2006 9:31 pm

Hope that it is benign type that kiwani has mentioned!
We are all keeping our fingers crossed for the best of news.

Karen

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Postby Judy Fox » Tue Jan 17, 2006 1:11 am

Fingers crossed. :)
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Postby bruinsmom » Tue Jan 17, 2006 5:01 am

Bruin and I are keeping our fingers and paws crossed.

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Postby Rogansmommy » Tue Jan 17, 2006 2:58 pm

@ kiwani -- that's what I was thinking too. Right now, as he's sitting 2 feet from me, you can't see it. Fingers crossed!

Thanks everyone for the possie vibes. It's great to have this support.
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Postby kiwani » Tue Jan 17, 2006 3:46 pm

Re: "@ kiwani -- that's what I was thinking too. Right now, as he's sitting 2 feet from me, you can't see it. Fingers crossed!"

---

I edited my earlier post with an additional excerpt on sebaceous gland swellings caused by "sebaceous gland *plugging*/hormonal changes. I just want to add here that 'essential fatty acids' like omega-3 fish oils act as fat thinners and anti-inflammatories, and improve the health of skin and follicles (among other good things). If Rogan's other lumps are fatty cysts too, which usually appear with age in people too, fish oils are often recommended.

All best wishes...

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UPDATE

Postby Rogansmommy » Sat Jan 28, 2006 9:13 am

Rogue's vet appointment was this morning. I loved her! She had no fear and was as specific as she could be. The summary:

We walked in to the consultation room and since I had requested a muzzle, the vet tech handed it to me. (I liked that right off, since Rogue will only let me muzzle him. :roll: ) The vet asked me a bunch of questions about Rogue's personality because prior to the exam, he was completely calm. I think she was doubting the need for a muzzle, but took me at my word. I muzzled him and went on my knees next to him to hold his head. Again, he responds better to me than anyone else, so I stayed right there.

The vet examined his lumpy eye and well, pronounced it lumpy. She never called it anything but "THE GROWTH" :? so we still don't know what it is. It has to come out though (which we knew). She also did a full eye exam (everything else is perfect). The irony is Rogan was fine when she was examining his lumpy eye. When she started on his good eye, he fought like I've never seen him fight before. :shock: The whole outburst lasted 5 seconds (long enough to confirm he was a Chow and give me a bloody lip :-x ) and I got him under control again. The vets were impressed! They asked if I wanted a job as a vet tech. 8)

Rogue's outburst was perfect though because it gave me the opening I needed to request being let into the OR. I don't want to watch the procedure, but like all of us, wanted to be there for the sedation. The vet was completely supportive and eagerly agreed. (I had just asked for the initial shot of sedation, since Rogue's been anesthetized before and we have a good anesthesia for him -- she asked that I stay for the whole catherization and intubation.) They also encouraged me to feel free to stay at the hospital through the procedure and would let me in the back to sit with him while he wakes up. :D :D

The surgery is scheduled for March 24 because that's when my spring break is, Kel will be away with my husband and I can spend 24/7 with Rogan. The vet basically said that it needed to come out but it wasn't urgent. She also said that 90% of these are benign, but that leaves 10% for malignancy so we're going to have it sent out for pathology just in case. I'm not taking any chances. She said it could be anything from a sarcoma to a granuloma and we wouldn't know until it's out.

Fingers crossed!!!
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Postby Judy Fox » Sat Jan 28, 2006 11:22 am

Well, it has started to be dealt with and that is good. :) Sounds good too - I am impressed with your vet's attitude - they should all be like that.

So please give Rogan a hug from me.

:)
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Postby kiwani » Sat Jan 28, 2006 5:49 pm

Re: "She said it could be anything from a sarcoma to a granuloma and we wouldn't know until it's out."

"The vet basically said that it needed to come out but it wasn't urgent."

---

First, I don't understand her saying that it isn't urgent, but it might be a sarcoma.

I am leaning toward it being in the granuloma category, (collection of immune response cells, forming a clumpiness at the site of inflammation). It would tie in to what was already posted about clogged sebaceous glands near eyelashes, caused by something like hormonal inbalance or ingrown follicle etc. I don't expect a vet to prescribe omega-3's to take down the inflammation, but prednisone is often prescribed to take down the inflammation in granulomas; so I wonder why they wouldn't try that first. If the inflammation goes down, then they'd know it was a granuloma, and the granuloma clumpiness would abate.

I looked through your old posts to try to get a bigger picture of Rogan's health. Many months ago you mentioned a bark cough, and those symptoms pretty much described a vocal cord granuloma. Something like acid reflux or a previous intubation could have started some inflammation in the vocal cords, then the immune cell clumps form, then a tickle triggers a cough each time he barked. The main point I'm trying to make in all this is that *if* his omega 3's and 6's are skewed, then his metabolism might be prone to form inflammations, followed by granulomas, because there aren't enough omega 3's to keep down inflammations.

You are free to just ignore the above ramblings. :)

PS - The vet's got wonderful bedside manner.

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Postby Rogansmommy » Sun Jan 29, 2006 5:35 am

Hi Kiwani: Once again, your information is priceless and accurate. The vet did not want to speculate on what it could be because, really, it could be anything. It's not irritating his cornea, which is why she said it wasn't urgent and could wait until Break. While, in truth, I hate to wait that long, it's the best time since I will have 10 days off and my 5 year old son will be 1500 miles away (with my husband) so Rogan and I can have some peace and quiet.

The only concern the vet had was the reconstruction of the eyelid and that will depend completely on how much of it they need to remove to get the growth off. That's also why they want me to stay at the hospital -- they can talk to me during surgery as they need me. She was very impressive and from what I overheard of her conversations with other patients, a straight shooter. (Another dog had cateracts at 2 and she was explaining why surgery might not work.)
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Postby kiwani » Sun Jan 29, 2006 6:58 am

Re: "The only concern the vet had was the reconstruction of the eyelid and that will depend completely on how much of it they need to remove to get the growth off."

---

That's precisely why I wanted to focus on the granuloma issue. From what I've read on these, what appears to us as raised lumpy masses, near a sebaceous gland for instance, is actually the body's response to inflammation. There are certain white cells whose job it is to wall-off certain inflammed areas, and this walling-off is the clumpy lumpiness which looks like a tumor. Once the body deals with whatever caused the inflammation, the body reabsorbs the clumpiness.

People often have these granulomas in lungs and vocal cords, and they *aren't* excised, animals get them in certain areas of the skin (like Rogan had near the lip). Whether it's a *virus* or a *fungus* or environmental injury starting the clumpy inflammation process (ingrown eyelash, clogged sebaceous gland), the clumpy-lumpiness doesn't abate until the fungus, virus, or whatever started it abates. In other words, whatever lumpiness is there is the body's response trying to deal with inflammation.

The main point I'm trying to make is before rushing to excise the lid and reshape it, why not just first attempt to treat it as a granuloma. If the clumpy-lumpiness abates, then they'll know it's a granuloma, and Rogan might be spared having his lid reshaped.


Not wanting to interfere, this is just the way I'd approach it with my Chows, or for myself. Since the surgery is to be in March, the interim time could be used to reducing a possible granuloma to spare the lid.

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Postby Rogansmommy » Sun Jan 29, 2006 10:23 am

We're going to do blood work again in preparation for the surgery, so if there is any infection, it will be caught prior to and treated. Again, part of the reason I put the surgery out was to give his body time to do it without major intervention.

As for the lumps on his lip, he was treated with everything from steriods to Bactril (and many anti-biotics in between) with no results. So, since we've gone the medical route before without success, we're all pretty sure this time it would just be a huge waste of money and time.
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Postby kiwani » Mon Jan 30, 2006 2:54 pm

I guess I'm just not understanding something about this upcoming surgery. I thought there would be a biopsy or a fine needle aspirate first to see what kind of cells are involved.

The way I am understanding your post is that the lid will be cut and reformed, no matter what type of swelling it is, so maybe it's just my reading of it. I've never been to Florida either, so I don't really know if that humid climate causes a much greater incident of fungal infections that are unique to the area.

You have my very best wishes, and I hope the lid swelling disappears on its own.

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Postby Rogansmommy » Tue Jan 31, 2006 11:06 am

I need to get a picture of this growth so that everyone can see it. Either way, whether it is malignant or not, it needs to come out. It's already 9.5 cm. Doing a needle aspirate on a growth that will come out anyway is irrelevant. It's not growing rapidly, so we're holding off until I have the time to devote to him. It may sound cruel to some (waiting) but it is the only choice I have at this time.
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart

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Lump on Eye

Postby yblanco » Tue Jan 31, 2006 1:24 pm

Hi - My Chow had the same thing on his eyelids. I cannot remember the name of them, but they is was like fleshy growth on his eyelid. It was not causing pain; however, if it happened to roll inward it would cause some irritation and make him tear more than usual. They got a bit bigger over a period of about 2 years or so. At first they weren't a huge issue as he only had one and it was small, but then he got the second one and it just looked painful and ugly. I had them removed through surgery. Now he looks a lot cuter, not as old and his tearing problem is gone. It's not a huge health problem, but I would recomment having them removed and maybe finding a vet that is not afraid of your dog!


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