Very frustrated!

Health topics and issues with Chow Chows.

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dchernandez
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Very frustrated!

Post by dchernandez »

Hello all,
So for a couple of months Riley has developed a habit of licking him paws. It started with him licking the top left paw. He kept licking the exact same spot until fur was missing and it was all red and sore. We put an e-collar on him and hot spot spray and eventually it went away and the fur grew back.

A couple of weeks later he started licking the bottom of the paw and the same problem has occurred. He keeps licking the same exact spot (now its under the paw) until its raw.

I have been having to put the e-collar on him every night and whenever we are not home to watch him. His diet has not changed and its not like he is licking everywhere. Its like he picks a spot and persists on it.

I don't want to have him on an e-collar forever but everytime his paw heals up he picks a new spot to lick raw.

Help please, its very frustrating getting him to stop licking. Like I said his food and snacks have not changed since we got him back in November. We have even stopped giving him treats all together and he never gets table scraps. I just don't know what to do.

Any suggestions would help. Thanks :?
Claudia & Riley
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Post by Rogansmommy »

It could be a food allergy. Especially with foods, the allergen builds up in their system. A food that he may have been fine on 6 months ago could easily cause a reaction today. What food is he on?
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

If he is eating normal food, walking on wet grass, shampoo on the carpet these will cause hot spots. pekoe has had a few hot spots on her paws it usally comes after her paws get wet. I usally just spary some hotspot spray on it and it goes away. It needs to be taken care of way before it get's to the point of having to use a collar, i've never had to use one oof those things on pekoe.

Chows will wash up and lick thier paws and legs but not to the point of bald spots and bleeding. Check the food and treats you are giving him.
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Post by dchernandez »

Riley has been on nutro lamb and rice.
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

What about the treats and side dishes, I would just get some hot spot spray, Hot spots come from being left wet also, if it on his paws it might be somehting he is walking in, damp grass. Pekoe use to get way more hot spots when we lived in SF, she was always walking in the rain and walking in puddles and streams. I think she's only had one sence we have been in LA. Check your carpet cleaners and stuff you spray around the house.

If it was the food he would be knawing at more then just his paws and would be happening all the time.
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Post by dchernandez »

He does walk on wet grass in the morning...maybe I'll start putting on him booties when we go out in the morning.

I was also thinking that it if it was the food he would be itching everywhere else, but its just the paws.

He doesn't get any side dishes and the little treats he does get are the nutro crackers type of treats.

I'll definitely try the booties on.

Thanks
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Post by bubba »

i think the lamb foods a little hot for summer , Nutro has a new offfering for sensitive skin and stomach Herring or Venision

http://www.nutroproducts.com/ncdry-ahrp.shtml

http://www.nutroproducts.com/ncdry-aven.shtml

im gonna try the herring

my guy licks sores too, i wash them with iodine theraputic soap , helps ,, there is a nervious condition some dogs display where they will lick and lick making terrible terrible sores , i would have to go look that up ...
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Post by April »

Try Canadiae allstages of life dog food. My chow bear had a really bad hot spot for a few months (this was before I became edumacated in the chow world) Once I changed his food that hot spot and any itchies that he had NEVER came back. Hope this helps.
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Post by TJordan »

It could also be seasonal allergies. Butters allergies get bad in the springtime and he does the same thing with this paws. He was using Benedrly and it helped, but this years his allergies are out of control and the vet put him on allergy meds for dogs.
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Post by dchernandez »

Benedryl? What kind?
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

Why do eye's light up the second someone mentions pills, meds and magic food. Benedryl may relieve the itch but not cure the problem. Benedryrl is also a relaxer when you go to the vet. Pain killers and allergy pills may be fine one or two times in an emergency but after that it's time to find the cause. Amazing how many Chows on here have allergies and so many health problems. I don't recall any of the 6+ age Chows ever going to the vet except for scraps and foxtails there were 2 or 3 that were at the vets allot but they had serious problems due to age.

Most of us had the skin problems but it was taken care of and we still have minor hot spots once in awhie, Hot spots must be common or they wouldn't sell 5 differant brands of hot spot spray at pet-co.

Other then food hot spots and some skin problems come from to many baths and the Chow getting wet and not being dried off enough. Pekoe was running around in the sprinklers last night and sure enough this moring she is knawing at her Paws, a little spray and she's fine.
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

We used to see dogs who developed a habit of licking at their paws and they would have "lick granulomas" form that would rarely heal. Anytime a dog seems to be licking their paws/feet/leg more than normal it's best to put a stop to it.

It could be either food or contact allergies or even just boredom that starts the problem. Once it becomes a habit it's really hard to stop.

Nutro foods are a medium to medium-low quality food, so you may benefit by changing the foods to a higher quality. Poorer quality foods often leave the dogs on the borderline of developing hot spots, and then you add some irritation (licking or getting damp) and it develops into a full-fledged oozing sore. Whether you use a topical medicinal hotspot spray or an antihistamine like benadryl it's only treating the immediate problem and not the underlying reason why the dog is developing these hot spots.

A chow should be able to get wet and not end up with a hot spot, especially in an area like the foot/leg (where the hair is shorter). I only had problems with hot spots back when my dogs ate lower quality foods. Once I changed to a raw diet I've never had a problem again. My dogs get wet all the time and they're fine. If you think about it, a dog who gets hot spots every time it gets wet would have led a pretty miserable life out in the "real world". The hot spots are usually an indication of a deeper problem.

I'd encourage you to research some other foods and think about trying that. I'd also recommend a spray called "Bandguard" if you can find it. It's not a medication - it's kind of like Bitter Apple except it tastes MUCH worse. I haven't seen many dogs who lick through Bandguard. My Mom's dog has myriad problems (EPI, kidney disease, cauda equina and severe allergies) and when he starts licking his feet we immediately spritz him with the Bandguard and he stops. His allergies are environmental, unfortunately, so it's very hard to avoid them. You might call around to your local vets and see if someone carries this spray. It also is handy if you have an incision area that you want the dog to avoid licking.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

DC next time your head itches from shampoo or dry skin just eat raw meat. Like she said its only his paws, if it were food or allergies it would be more then just his paws. He's been eating the same thing for years and only has the problem occasionally, He's picking up something on his walks. The park grass id filled with fertilizers and pesticides when the grass gets wet its not only water he's walking in.

There are times of the year that Pekoe gets really dry skin, I'm sure DC is familiar with Santa Anna conditions, its hell on everyone, dry and windy. during the Santa Anna's everyone is itching.

Are you sure riley's not just cleaning his paws and legs or is he pulling hair and drawing blood.
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Post by ciaobella »

There are some chows that eat Nutro and never have a problem, that is true. But Jeff, I wish I could just make you understand how frustrating and horrible it was when Sophie was so very sick from eating it, and how it irritated her intestinal lining over a period of time.... I thought I was going to lose her. I am left with the guilt of knowing that during the time she was sick but would start to seem a little better, I would start to mix in a tiny amount Nutro with the chicken and rice never thinking that that was the problem, because "Jeff says this is the best food for chows". The whole cascade of symptoms would start all over again. She was so miserable.
I had one vet who advocated using prednisone and Hills prescription food and another who advocated using supplements, fresh foods and a change of kibble, but both were convinced that it was the food. If there were no other choice I would have gone with the prednisone, but that particular "magic pill" was one that I really did not want to resort to before exploring all options. I went with the latter vet's advice, and it has made all the difference FOR HER. Her overall health has improved dramatically.


Claudia, whatever course you take, just remember that you are the only person who can observe how Riley is reacting to his food or environment. I hope he starts feeling better soon.
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

I'm not just talking about Nutro and I doubt Nutro was the whole problem with Sophie. If a dog reacted that bad to a brand of food, you would have a suit and a major recall. It would be interesting to know who gave you those results, A vet?. Was the food tested? did you take her to a specialist?. Did you notify Nutro? if you believe Nutro was causing that many problems the company should have been notified so the food could be tested and not harm other dogs. Was the new food tested by a lab to make sure it was ok for Sophie? Nutro doesn't just make lamb and rice they also have a food for sensitive stomachs, weight gain,weight lose, dental problems, what ever the problem they make the food. I may just feed Nutro but i switch between Lamb and rice, senior and Ultra all the time, Pekoe eats all three.

Its true not all dogs like certain foods, what I'm talking about is the never ending search for food and the adding of supplements and food enticers to get them to eat it. I don't like meds and pills at all, I personally won't even take an aspirin and I do the same with pekoe. If there's a problem fix it, Pain killers and cover up drugs do nothing. Allot of these puppies on here are already med junkies and they haven't even started their life yet. They take so many meds by the time they are an adult they will need more meds to function or stay alive. All these meds may sound great now but wait a couple of years when the real problems start. I blame most diseases and sicknesses humans get on the meds they were talking when they were babies.

Some of you blame every thing on the food they are eating and the Vets say they don't know so they can sell you drugs. I don't go to drug pushing vets, if the first thing out of a vets mouth is drugs and shots I leave. All high quality food is good and has every thing the dog needs, when you mix other things with it you have no Idea how the mixtures may react to something in the food that has already been tested.

Nutro, SG, Proplan and many others are good foods dogs have been eating them for years with no problem, its what's added to it to get them to eat it, that's the problem. Way before this china food thing Diamond had bad food, the dogs were refusing to eat it they knew it was bad so people started adding food enticers to it forcing the dog to eat it, they killed their own dogs and the dogs were trying to tell them get this crap out of here.

Allot of these Chows haven't ate any brand of food long enough to see if it is working, If someone comes on and says they found a magic formula everyone rushes out to get it, then the next day they change again because someone else found another magic formula. People go out and buy all these different foods go home then give them treats and bits of human food all day and wonder why the dog isn't eating and is having problems. If I give Pekoe one cookie or just a small piece of MacDonald's she won't eat her food that day.

There's been many times that Pekoe hasn't ate in a day or two, Fresh food is put out for her daily the left over is thrown in the trash if she doesn't eat she doesn't eat, the food is there she will eat when she's hungry.

I am a fanatic with what goes in Pekoe's mouth you don't think I didn't run Nutro threw everything I could before I feed it to her, You all know how picky I am about vets and what I go through to find one so when a Vet I do pick, a Nutritionalist, a board certified Cancer specialist tells me Nutro is fine that's what they feed their own dogs, its nutro for Pekoe plus the Chows on here that have lived to be 13,14 and 15 are eating Nutro, Nutro is the food for Pekoe.

If your Chows are having that many problems with food and you think your Chow is dieing from the food its time for a specialist not a vet.

I agree with everything red dragon has been telling you guys about food and not adding things to it, Every vet I have had says don't add anything.
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Post by ciaobella »

Jeff&Peks wrote: It would be interesting to know who gave you those results, A vet?. Was the food tested? did you take her to a specialist?. Did you notify Nutro?
Yup, nope, yup, nope.

My God, Jeff, have you been here all weekend? It was beautiful outdoors here in Nashville.

I think everyone knows here on this forum there are two sure things a person can say to make your head burst into flames:
1 I'm giving up my 14 year old chow for adoption
2 Not doing all that well with Nutro, gonna switch

If you want to read some user reviews from dog owners who feed Nutro, go here:
http://www.rateitall.com/i-24984-nutro.aspx

I wish you would not take it so personally, I think people are unwilling to discuss it because they don't want to be belittled or berated by someone they like (meaning you). If you have heard more from people who like Nutro than people who don't, that is probably why. Weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, crockery flying everywhere, and I just don't get it. If Pekoe does fine with it, good for you. No need to get defensive about it, we all know you have gone above and beyond to ensure Pekoe's health. EVERYONE here admires you for that.

What I am saying is, the nutritionist that I talked to AND the vet I finally found who actually had a solid background in nutrition (that took some hunting, I can tell you) both said that Nutro was a bad choice for Sophie because the beet pulp fiber ingredient was hard for her to digest. In fact, I think the vet's exact description was "about like eating meat flavored brillo pads". No, it wasn't the underlying problem, she has IBS. But it exascerbated the problem, it was a bad choice of food FOR HER. She just got sicker and sicker while eating it.
The first vet, I didn't take all that seriously, he's a Science Diet pimp, and the one who wanted to load her up on meds and Hills. Hence, the second opinion.

Think the world of ya, Skippy, but the vet actually is a good one and is considered the court of last appeal for dogs with failing health, so I'll stick with him. There was a man in there with his 14 yr old westie, thought he had no hope until he found this guy. His dog looked half that age.
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

When its 110 out Life stops.

Nutro is a brand name like Nissan and Nike. Nutro doesn't mean one bag of Lamb and rice. the same as SG and Purina so no one can really say Nutro is Bad. Maybe the lamb and rice is bad for some but the chicken, rice and oatmeal for digestive problems may not be bad, or the other 20 products of dry food they make that doesn't have lamb, chicken or rice in it.I switch between 3 of them, lamb and rice, Senior and Ultra, 3 completely different products, 3 completely different ingredients.

When someone says Their dog has bad skin or stomach problems and I recommend Nutro I take it for granted the person will read the bag, if the Chow has Digestive problems I would think they would buy Nutro, SG, or Purina that says formulated and supplemented for dogs with Digestive problems or skin problems not Lamb and rice because the bag is a pretty green then blame the company. Your right, if your Chow has stomach problems and you feed it Lamb and rice your going to have a problem, That's not Nutro, SG or Purina's fault that someone doesn't read the bag. Nutro makes allot of different foods, read the bags,

The website means nothing I could show you a hundred websites against Barf diet, Innova and all the rest.

As for badgering, I was talking to DC, The rest I was just responding to what was directed at me. I'm the one that was being badgered because I don't agree with drugs and supplemented food. My concern is the Chow not the popularity of the poster, If someone were to come on and said mix Beef, Tylenol (pain killer) Acepromazine (food aggression) and Pepto Bismol (stomach and gas) was the perfect Chow food people would feed it, not because of the chows health but the popularity of the poster.

Last word I ever say about food, feed what you want it keeps the vets in business.
Last edited by Jeff&Peks on Sun Jul 15, 2007 11:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Post by WildThings »

dchernandez,
Just as another suggestion, if you walk him and he is going into other yards, it could be an irritation from something like fertilizers, lawn treatments, bug sprays, etc. I know most commercial lawn treatment companies leave a small flag on yards that have been treated, but if someone is doing their own treatments, they usually don't have any warning signs put up. Tess has never had hot spots, but I know in the winter, she once walked on a salted sidewalk and it really irritated her feet...I know lawn treatments can do the same thing.
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Hot Spots/Food

Post by pfordeb »

This discussion is sort of cracking me up, which if you know what I'm dealing with with one of my dogs, you know I need some cracking up.

Anyway, as a therapist/educator for human children, I'll add my two cents that no therapy is one size fits all. And even when you find a therapy that works, it usually needs to be tweaked now and then.

Besides her current problems, Sullivan has always had all kinds of allergies: skin, stomach, and respiratory (she actually used to sneeze all the time). We have tweaked the brand of food from time to time, but as long as we keep to salmon based food rather than red meat or chicken (she only gets dry dog food); that works for her, but maybe not for another dog. A friend with 3 samoyeds (what do they know, haha) said many northern breed do better with fish based diets -- whatever. She hasn't had any symptoms for years (she also used to barf, rub her nose on the carpet, and have hot spots), so maybe it is the type of meat, at least in her case???

Actually, I was going to post that Sullivan is doing really great with her pain meds!! Of course it's deceptive, but at least she feels good. She's kicking her back feet when she pees/poops and is even doing what I call that doggie yoga (the downward dog stretch). One of our friends is a radiologist for humans (I keep calling him a human radiologist). He looked at her xrays yesterday and confirmed the tumor/cancer, but said her hips are much worse than the tumor -- probably congenital. Don't know how she's walked so well for so long -- chow stubborness perhaps? We're just happy she seems to feel good.
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Post by Teekapoo »

Can someone recommend me the best hotspot spray please, my Teeka is going nuts this summer and as soon as we get rid of one she's licking at another area.. Do they really help? at the moment i clean the area as best as she will let me and then put a wound powder on it to dry it up but that only really works when she's already chewed the fur off.... please help...
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

My Chow hasn't had any hotspots in awhile but I have used "Veterinarians best hot spot spray" sold over the counter at Pet-smart. Judy has a good hot spot remedy she makes and uses, you could do a search or message her.

My Chow hates being sprayed with stuff that has aloe smell so I would avoid those, Try veterinarians best it doesn't smell and it seems to work. Pet-smart, maybe pet-co has it.

With all skin problems becareful what you feed him. No wheat or corn in the food.
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Post by Teekapoo »

Thanks ...I've just tried to buy this on-line but cant find anywhere thet'll send it to the uk, do you know where i would be able to get it from?
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

Teekapoo wrote:Thanks ...I've just tried to buy this on-line but cant find anywhere thet'll send it to the uk, do you know where i would be able to get it from?
If you are asking about veterinarians best

http://www.become.com/shop?pid=20785055 ... ian%26apos

http://store.vetsbest.com/productlist.html

http://www.veterinariansbestonline.com/category/4028

I don't know if these send to the UK or not, probably the same ones you found. I couldn't find a site in the UK or england
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Post by Auddymay »

Hmmm...Lily has just started licking her paws. She did it last year, too. I can't remember what time of the year it was though. I thought about trying something besides Nutro ram and lice, mostly because my girls never completely stopped itching on it, and I noticed Pip is itching as well. Also, taste-wise, they eat it, but only because it is the only game in town. I'll try that spray you suggested as well, Melanie.
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Post by Juniper »

I didn't have success with that Veterinarian's Best spray on Troy and he began licking himself even more and pulling his hair out for the first time and shortly thereafter started upchucking (from the ingestion of the spray and probably hair as well!) He whimpered when I placed it on his skin because it burned terribly. I tried the vinegar as well and that didn't stop him from itching.

I sought out another solution to hot spots or allergy biting: 100% Organic Aloe Vera gel (Food grade) worked the best and healed the areas quickly. When I placed it on his skin, cool from the refrigerator especially, I saw Troy have immediate relief.

Also, I have both chows on cooling or neutral foods (traditional chinese concept) rabbit, duck, eggs, beef...NO lamb, venison, chicken or turkey....Both myself and the chows are finally happy. :wink:
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