Chow Chow not nice to Vet

pkfleck · Post by **pkfleck** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 3:33 pm

My Chow is very touchy about getting touched by the vet. Especially around the rear area. Whenever I have to take her to the vet she seems like she doesn't mind being there but will not cooperate with the vet at all when he/she shows up.

She's even bit a pregnant vet tech. In her defense they had drugged her. It doesn't seem to matter what *Censored Word* the vet is, I've tried both. It gets worse everytime I go. It has gotten so bad that everytime I take her in for anything they have to drug her to do anything. Does anyone have any suggestions that can help me. Right now I just don't take her there unless it's an emergency. I know that's not good though.

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:29 pm

I don't have any advice for you but I'm just letting you know you are not alone, your Chow is not a vicious beast because he doesn't like vets, there's a few of us on here that go through the same thing everytime we take our Chow's to the vet.
The one thing I would be careful of is what they are giving your Chow to sedate him.
I can't find a search on this site but if you would look back at some of mine and Karen's post (Pekoe and Mr N.) we also have trouble at the vets.

Rogansmommy · Post by **Rogansmommy** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 4:36 pm

When we lived in Rochester, our vets were wonderful. They had no fear, specialized in big dogs and believed in holistic medicine. They saved my rottweiler's life on more then one occasion and had patience with Rogue. These women were goddesses.

Now that we're in Florida, we have a vet who is all right. They are terrified of Rogue and it shows every time, but I use the fear to my advantage. I am not one to be passive

(can you tell by my taste in dogs?) so I dictate what happens in the vets office. I have no qualms about using a muzzle and Rogue has learned over the years that what I say goes. I always take his head and talk to him when the vets work on him. We get through it together. I get the vets and the vet techs to agree to this by saying, "If he's going to bite someone, I would rather it be me then you."

That usually persuades them to let me have my way.

By the way, Rogue has only bitten one person in his life -- my husband.

pkfleck · Post by **pkfleck** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:05 pm

Thanks for letting me know I'm not alone in this. I guess it must just be one of those Chow things.

I'm thinking I might try another vet though. The office I have been going to has been growing a lot business-wise and I've had a different vet on every visit. I just get the feeling that everytime my dog comes in they don't have the time or patience for her behavior and it's very impersonal. Also three of those times have been to remove porcupine quills and that may have soured her to the place all together. I'd like to try a smaller more personal vet.

Off the subject but on the good side I've learned to avoid porcupines like the plague and the last few times Heidi (her name) saw one she actually seems to know now to stay away. I think that was because she witnessed her boyfriend (a huskey named Buck) really hurt himself with one. Maybe she just had to see it third person to make the connection.

Post by **kingalls** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 5:09 pm

Hee...heee...yes, as Jeff mentioned Pekoe and Mr. N present a challenge for most vets. (You can see my original post "Mr. N is banned from the vet" in the Community discussions - sometime in May this year).
I do have to take Mr. N to the vet soon for a dental. I know he has to be sedated. I have opted to go ahead with the acepromazine pill which will make him a little groggy before he goes to the vet. I will also make sure I am the one that puts him in the kennel. He had not been in a kennel since a youngster when he was neutered. Plus he's my "baby' and doesn't like it when I'm out of sight - which was probably part of the reason why he went after the vet when being put into the kennel.
I already figure that for both my Chows, a muzzle is a required accessory for visiting the vet (or the groomer). As for the sedation, I would still like to find a local vet that can handle a regular visit without sedation.

As for the rear part - Mr. N's eyes get really wild looking when he's being shaved back there by the groomer

. Heaven forbid if he had to get his temp checked by a vet...As for me, Mr. N doesn't mind me scratching his back end - whatta guy!

Sorry - I don't have any suggestions except to keep looking for a vet that is okay with Chows.

Karen

Guest · Post by **Guest** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 6:08 pm

One thing that my vet does that I love, she will go outside and sit on the grass and call chingy over with food, it is a neutral territory and Chingy is slowly getting used to going to the vet. I also take him there for no reason, just bring him in to show him off to everyone plus he gets treats so it is just an all around good experience for him. Try to take your dog to the vet for no reasonso that he associates it as a good place. If you explain to them what you are doing most vets are really receptive to that idea. I absolutely LOVE all my vets(I have seen everyone in the clinic and they are all great) They are very personable. If you do not feel 100% comfortable with your vet, your dog will feel alot less then that and that is just looking for trouble. Go with your instincts on your vet.

Debbie · Post by **Debbie** » Wed Nov 02, 2005 9:22 pm

I have a vet who comes to my home and sits down and gives Bones a lot of time to sniff and snort and growl while she and I talk about how Bones is. Then she lets me do some of the work and guides me ie. put the stethescope there-no, down a little bit more etc. and Bones lets us do this together. Usually Bones feels less scared toward the end of the appointment and lets his vet touch him and examine and I pet him all over too to distract him from what she is doing. This year it went really well even giving shots was not as bad for him.

Debbie and BOnes

WorknChowz · Post by **WorknChowz** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:39 am

GOOD JOB Chowlover! I wish more people would take their dogs for little happy visits to the Vet.
Find out what times your Vet is not too busy, most will welcome the opportunity to have a happy visit.
With my first Chow, I was not aware that this could be done, so I actually PAID for an office visit almost once a week, just so the Vet would have some time to "make nice" with my pup. That got to be quite expensive, but I looked at it as an investment into my Chow Chow's future comfort and happiness.

(Now I know that Vet took advantage of my ignorance)

Another wonderful thing we all can do for our dogs is to practice with them at home for exams, restraints, and muzzles. Imagine how scary it is for the dogs when all of this strange stuff ONLY happens when that wierd smelling person in that sensory overload building is present.
Exam rooms are usually small and dogs feel trapped. Then they are restrained for the exams and feel more trapped! The adrenaline starts flowing and your dog has an all out HISSY FIT! Quite understandable, really. They think they are being killed!

WE should all work at home to practice exams on our dogs, restraint exercises, and get them comfortable with having a muzzle on in a non-stressful environment, lots of happy talk, and some yummy rewards.
This takes more than half of the scary things out of a Vet visit! It will also strengthen the bond of trust you have with your dog. What could be better?

In Lia Fu's case, we practiced at home ALOT. She was still so fearful due to the abuse she suffered before we adopted her that my Vet prescribed Valium for the next visit. Ace is NOT a great choice for a fearful dog. In Doc's words, "Valium takes the fear away, Ace makes them slow and drunk." A dog on ACE, unless a full dose, is actually MORE likely to bite. (Kind of like a usually nice guy that gets a couple of drinks in him and does things he usually wouldn't.

)
So Doc suggests Ace on CONFIDENT, Aggressive dogs, and Valium for fearful dogs.
I would go so far as to say that 99.9% of Chow Chows that people label as "aggressive" are really fearful, and have learned to make the scary stuff go away by acting tough.
After having a couple of real visits with the valium on board, we followed up with several happy visits and the next real visit, we tried her completely "sober". She was FINE! And has been ever since!

Rogansmommy · Post by **Rogansmommy** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:26 am

kingalls wrote:I have opted to go ahead with the acepromazine pill which will make him a little groggy before he goes to the vet.

FYI - Chows have the ability to override acepromazine and any other sedative. Rogue did it so often that I stopped using it (it didn't change anything)!

Post by **kingalls** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 11:40 am

I know that the acepromozine may not effect Mr. N as the vet would appreciate. My first preference is to find a vet that will work with me. For some reason, the vets think they can treat him like the other dogs. I need to find a vet that understands that I need to be there to help manage Mr. N and that they just can't trot off with him and put him in a kennel. Mr. N was behaved during the exam of his painful ear infection - it was when the vet took him away from me and tried to stick him in a kennel. Even though Mr. Nahkohe was muzzled, I guess the vet still got scared enough to tell me he wouldn't see him unless he was sedated.
I really don't want to give him ace, valium, or any other sedative unless it's required (like doing the dental).

Thanks, Karen

Judy Fox · Post by **Judy Fox** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 1:32 pm

Milly and Mabel I think are the exceptions - they love the vets' surgery. They think it is a day out!

I am also very jealous of one of our vets - Milly will kiss him under his chin when he is examining her - actually kiss him!!!!!!!!!!

I have had half a dozen kisses in five years.
Mabel is a bit more affectionate and I can get a kiss now and again.
They are not too keen about having their temperatures taken though, I have to hold their heads tight!! So humiliating!

Mandy · Post by **Mandy** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 2:30 pm

You're not alone Judy...
Chewie loves my vet. Lots of tail wagging and sits by the door to the back of the office until someone lets him come back and say hi to everyone.

We are getting our new girl this week and plan to take her for some happy visits to the vet. I think she does fine with her own vet but she is a little bit of a fearful girl so I want her to get comfortable there.

We'll see though... I might be joining the ranks of the Chows that don't like the vet soon!

Mandy & Chewie

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 5:04 pm

To all of you that have these great vets that your Chows all love, If any of you live in Southern or Northern CA could you post who and where these Vets are. All the vets want to do that i take Pekoe to is knock her out and drag her to the back with out me.

Post by **Zhuyos mom** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 8:40 pm

My two are GREAT at their vet! Actually, all 7 of our chows have been excellent at the vet. Not sure how we got so lucky. Even "wild card" Pooh Bear is sooo loved at the vets ("wild card" because she's a rescue and I had no hand in raising her as a chowling). We even know where they stash the cookies! When Zhu got bloat and he had to go to emergency, the ER clinic doated on him, when he returned a couple of months later, they all remembered him and once again received extra special care. Both times when we left, the vet and the techs walked us out and gave Zhu special kisses.

However, both their regular vet and the ER clinic have told me that many chows they see are not good with them and are mean. The first time Zhus was admitted to the ER clinic, another chow named, Hercules, was admitted. He was apparently a holy terror.

Jeff, if you want info on our vet, private message me and I will send to you. However, if you're going all the way up to No. Cal, wouldn't it be better to just take the extra 30 minutes to go to Redwood Vet.? Karen, again, if you want to give our vet a try with Mr. N, private message me and I will send you the info. I have a flexible schedule and can even go with you or meet you there. The other place that I have heard is excellent is a vet place in the city named Pets Unlimited. I think Andyman goes there with his new chowling.

Anyways, don't mean to brag, but my two are their vet's favorite patients and when I go there to pick up their food, the vet always asks how they are and the techs always hand me a treat to bring home to them.

Post by **kingalls** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 9:21 pm

Thanks, Lou! I'm going to phone several vets in the towns near us and see what we can do...if that doesn't pan out, I will pm you for your vets information. I think Jeff said it already but it's the vet not our Chow.

Karen

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Thu Nov 03, 2005 10:19 pm

Thanks Lou, I just said Northern Ca for Karen. If I did drive up there I would go to redwood. A friend of mine recommend his half wolfs vet, supposedly he see's 5 Chows aday, yeah right but if he can handle a wolf he should be comfortable with Pekoe even though I swear Pekoe is possessed, maybe I should call an Exorcist but I might wait until she starts walking on the ceilings for that.

Taz · Post by **Taz** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 12:21 am

Luckely Diego doesn't mind going to the vet.
Even the vet he hates. (Had to go to him when Diego got attacked)
Since Diego is kind of a Show dog (Ok not really, but a little) i have since he was little got him used to be touched everywhere, even tho he is not 100% used to people touching him on his private parts, but he don't get aggressive or anything.
He just turns his head and looks shocked.
But people can usually touch him anywhere.
I always had some food with me to the vet, something that he really loves, that will make it much easier for the Chow to like to go to the vet.
And will assosiate it with something positive.

Judy Fox · Post by **Judy Fox** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 2:10 am

Did I read on this site that a vet had to examine a chow's mouth from across the room with binoculars? Seems to me that some vets are scared of Chows - it is sad 'cos it just perpetuates the myth about Chows being mean.

Our vets love Milly and Mabel. There are not many chows around our area and they are quite little celebrities. The veterinary nurses always try to give them treats but Milly won't even condescend to sniff them and Mabel sniffs them and says no thank you very politely!!

Rogansmommy · Post by **Rogansmommy** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 7:46 am

One thing I have always noticed about Rogue is how he reacts to fear. He's afraid of nothing and I think that's how he expects everyone to be. When people are afraid, they give off a smell, and Rogue reacts negatively. Sort of like, "You're scared of me?

HA! I'll give you something to be scared of." But if they have no fear (and it has to be genuine), he is all about the love.

Unlike my rottweiler, who is 24/7 all about the love, even if they are afraid. "Don't be afraid of Nina..." (butt wiggles)

If vets have had enough negative experiences with a breed, I can see them being afraid. This plays off on the dog and sets the tone for the whole visit.

I've shown Rogue in OB since the beginning, so he is used to people touching him. (The AKC command STAND is a great technique to incorporate into your routine. It makes a vet's life much easier.)

Jeff&Peks · Post by **Jeff&Peks** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 6:09 pm

Just to put some light on the myth that a Chow use to being a show Chow and the more a Chow is touched by people and visits a Vet you will have no problems taking it to the vet. I have mentioned this a few times in the past but the first 3 years of Pekoes life before her previous owner died Pekoe was a show Chow, manhandled by all, pinched, poked and mouth checked. When we first adopted her we had no Problems taking her to the Vet or groomers she was so well trained on walks she would walk right next to my leg, Stopped when I stopped and only moved when I moved, that drove me crazy so I got her out of that trained behavior fast.
Over the months that we had her she became more settled, more spoiled, forgot all the good training she received from her previous owner, Its only since we adopted her did the Vet and Groomer hating begin, the more she settled in to her new home and the more she became attached to me she doesn't want anybody near her or to touch her, the only ones allowed near her are my wife and myself. It sure not from lack of socilaztion pekoe is around people and at dogs parks everyday.

( I don't recommend dog parks for Chows even though i take Pekoe but i'm watching her constantly)

So the moral of the story is in my opinion no matter how much socialization or training they receive in the early years it a whole new story in the later years but I would rather have her the way she is now then the programmed robot we first adopted.

I still don't think its the Chow, I think its the Vet or Groomers attitude and how comfortable they are with Chows and of course their bedside behavior.

Post by **kingalls** » Fri Nov 04, 2005 8:40 pm

My Chows are free spirits. Our relationship with them is good. They love us and we love them. Mr. N had his groomer's visit today. She is really great. Mr. N can be difficult but she works with it, plus I'm there to help manage him. We discussed the vet issue and she agreed that I need to find a vet that will work with both of us.
It seems that the natural behavior can be mistaken as being mean or aggressive. I think that we might fall into a couple of different categories as Chow owners - those that will work the socialization and training to ensure a particular behavior and then those that are okay with Chows being what they are instinctively - territorial, aloof, and protective. Either way, life is better with a Chow

Karen

Judy Fox · Post by **Judy Fox** » Sat Nov 05, 2005 2:02 am

I am sure you are right Karen and you Jeff. I am sure it is the vet because our vets show no fear whatsoever of Chows - in fact until she retired not too long ago, the lady vet would open her surgery door to the waiting room and stoop slightly and pat her knees and call "Come on Silly Milly and Mabe Babe!" and the two naughtiest girls in the world would run over to her. She loved them and they knew it!!

I think it is the vet's attitude probably fed by the awfull stories about chows. I say this because when Mrs. Huddart left the practice we had a young lady vet for about six months - she was American and when we took one or other of M or M in, she was very wary until we said Chow was friendly and the vet. nurse cuddled M or M. But she was definately wary! I think over here on The Island, the Chow does not have the same repoutation - they are known to be aloof and a 'one-man-dog' but not vicious. This is where I think it is so sad that a breed is branded!