Chow Skin - Help Needed

[MissV]

ALLO!

So slushy doesnt have mange. It was confirmed 2 weeks ago at the vet again.
BUT, she does have these arb dark patches on her skin and hair growth is sparse.
She is also scratching a lot more and neither the vet nor I know what is going on (he couldnt see anything on 2 skin scrapings from 2 different parts). I know she must be in considerable distress because her mood has changed too.

Does anyone have ANY advice on what this could be? The patches are not red, they are a dark, deep purple sorta looking color.
She is currently on Eukanuba (changed from Hills about 2.5months ago). Our best brands of food are Hills and Eukanuba, so please dont mention something else thats not avaiable to me in SA as that wont help.
Should I remove her off a commercial diet completely and just feed her a raw diet?

I'm confused. The vet said if it got worse, i should put her on anti-biotics - but hes not sure how helpful that will be as he cant see whats causing it.
Should i opt for some homeopathic remedy?

Please help me!!! My slushy's coat is looking and feeling miserable
p.s. the markings are localized mainly on her underside.

ta

[TyChowgirl]

Hm. Does she maybe have fleas or something? When Ty had fleas last summer, the spots he bit (that were not hot spots) didn't have much hair at first and the skin came back purplish. Mia (my sister in law to be who is a vet tech and zoologist) told me that its a skin pigmentation thing. It's not just their tongues that are purple. It eventually healed up and hair grew back. I don't know if this is the same thing. Ty had a spot on his front arm...but his tummy was his targeted area and he had some fleas then. That was when we thought he may have food allergies too. I think it may have been the fleas though. They are hard to spot if there's only a few with all the fur.

[chowpups]

how about thyroid? I think it was Malachi's dad said something about his chow having thyroid problem?? I hope I got that right. and hair thinning and itching? You might want to do a search on here or google thyroid problems in chows and see if it sounds like slushys symptoms. Skin problems are so hard to pinpoint so do as much reading and try to help pinpoint it with your Vet. It will help cut down on excess testing maybe which can run up a nice bill.

[Cocoa]

Is she itchy all over or just specific areas? The fact that you changed her food fairly recently makes me suspect a food allergy. Food allergies are most often to the protein source in the food so check the ingredients and try a food that has a different protein. As far as the pigmentation goes like Tychow said not just their tongues can be purple. My black chows had purple skin, Cocoa is a red and she has pink skin.

[Fozzbear]

Have you had inter-dermal skin testing done? Sometimes you need to see a dermatology specialist, rather than your usual vet (I'd ask for a specialist dermatology referral anyway given the problems you are having). I had this done after drawing several blanks as to what was happening to my itchy dog and discovered that she has allergies to dairy/beef and massively to house dust mites.
I think that it makes sense for all chows to be on wheat, gluten, dairy and beef-free food (Wainwrights and James Wellbeloved do it, as do various other kibble brands. I use that plus some all natural wet foods). Another major thing to watch for is protien level - too much protien is often the culprit in skin disorders.

[Victory]

Eukanuba's top five ingredients are:
1.Chicken

2.Chicken by-product meal

3.Corn meal

4.Ground whole grain sorghum

5.Brewers rice

Many chows are allergic to chicken or other poultry, chicken by-product mean isn't good for any dog, and corn in pet food should just be outlawed. It is toxic to them as far as I'm concerned and I've had one top vet back me up on that, plus over 20 years feeding my chows. Corn turns to sugar in anyone's system and dogs, (and even more so for cats) often can't digest it proberly. It cause all kinds of allergic reaction in particular skin problems. If you can't get a better food where you are, then by all means switch her to a home diet. If you want to feed raw you can do that, but if you are nervouse about that and would rather cook her food, (sometimes better for a dog with allergies as any bacteria in raw food can cause issues as well with them, or if they have been on a commercial food that has compromised their immune system, as has happened with your dog. Yes allergic reactions are a sign of an immune system that is out of balance) What you want to do is to do just as they do with humans who have food allergies, remove the offending foods. Get chicken, cut or grind it up, cook it throughly with a bit of water, like you were making chicken soup, only less water so that it's like a thick gravey, get brown rice and cook it well, you want it mushy, because this will help her digest it better. See how she tolerates that, What I would do is add about a 1/2 cup of this mixture of chicken and rice to her current food that is 1/2 cup less than what she normally gets, do that for a week, let her tummy adjust, if all goes well, the next week add more chicken and rice mixture and remove more eukanuba, let her do that for a week, keep this up until she is eating only the chicken and rice. Don't be surprised if she starts eating less of this than she did of the eukanuba, it's normal as it will satisfy her better. When she has been on this for a week and has tolerated it well, no stomach upsets, no diahria etc. Then add one vegetable or fruit per week, she can have carrors, just a little, I used to put two carrots into about 5lbs of meat and 3 times that of rice, the portions should be 1/3 meat stew, 2/3 rices or other grains, she can have oatmeal also well cooked as well as rice, but stick to the rice for a while, besides it's cheaper. Then add other healthy vergatables, no onions though. You can also add choped ables, blue berries, and some other fruits. Go to this site and check the ingrdients you can add the vertables and fruits in them. http://www.innovapet.com/products/911 As you can see this formula contains, apples, carrots, flaxseed, pumpkin, (very good for digestion) tomatoes, alfalfa sprouts as well as high quality meat, barley and rice, brown rice and potatoe. You can also use sweet potatoes. Sea kelp and salmon oil are also good things to give her. If you do a search on Solid Gold you'll see they have two suppliments, SeaMeal powder and Flaxseed oil under Health and Coat. I've used these two products first when Firesong came because she was under weight and her coat was so dry and brittle. I still use them when I see dry skin or after this long very dry winter, that had most of the humans I know itching as well.

I hope this helps. Don't put her on anti-biotics until youve tried this and given it a fair chance. Anti-viotics can make this worse. I had a friend who had a beautiul dog that they fed too much crap to, and he developed sever skin allergies, the vet put him on anti biotics and steriods, neither helped not alone or together, it got so bad he was literally trying to chew his skin off and they had to put him down. Get her system cleaned out. If you can you might even fast her for a day a week, I would. Dogs are predators and no predator eats every day in the wild. sometimes its good to take our pets back to that.

[Ursa's daddy]

Ursa has Pemphigus Foliaceus and thyroid issues. The thyroid issues seem to make her hair not grow properly. She also has allergies, exactly how many and what kind I don't know. I do know she has flea allergies. I have used a vitamin E / soy oil cream, which seems to help, but Malachi likes to lick it off her, so I no longer use it.
I am also giving both chows Omega 3 Fish oil. I do not know definitively if it actually helps. I dropped the vitamin E caps, because I did not think they were doing any good.
A good reference is the Merck http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp
It may not be the easiest read, but does have lots of information.

A suggestion, which I don't follow, and I KNOW better. Set up a spread sheet showing calender days, feed given, medications given, additional supplements given, observations of skin condition, and any other thing that you feel might be related to your dog's condition. This will help you build a database to understand what is happening.

Keep us posted on how things are going. Training I know a little about, but health issues are something that I definitely like to learn more about.

[Cam Atis]

Personally, I think feeding raw as 'holistic' is just a way to revert back the canine palate towards that - eating meat raw - whereas centuries of domestication tried to wean off the naturally carnivore canine from raw and so they eat what we eat : Cooked meat or food with scent of meat. And we can be relatively complacent that a hungry dog will not turn on us as their lunch. . Raw has lots of bacteria. It is different from a freshly killed carcass in the wild.

Have you heard of the news of a man who left his dogs for 2 weeks and when he returned, his dogs attacked him and fed on him for days before his neighbors noticed from the stench?
There's a case here in my country where feeding raw is not yet popular. The house dog a pure DObermann Pinscher was nice to the infant baby they had. One day, the dog decided to feed on the baby. The couple was away for a few hours and the baby was wIth the Nanny and older brother. The father went home, shot the dog and they still cant grasped why it happened as the dog's been with the babe for many months and has photos with the babe.
Not to freak you out, just be aware of the instinct that has been tamed in centuries of domestication.

Victory's cooked chicken rice seemed very good. In fact, I will try it right away with Cassie if she lost appetite again.
Although adding carrots and vegetables will give a rise to (I guess) a new breed of canine gourmet: Canine Vegetarians.
Wont it hurt them - too much plant material ? However, I saw my dogs will eat grass at random when they are having stomach troubles.

[Sydney]

Hello Miss V:

7 years ago I had exactly the same symtoms happen with my male chow. The dark patches, sparse hair and mood change are definently hypothyroid. Vet can take a simple blood test. My boy went on thyroid pills which he has taken every day for 7 years (he's now 10-11, best guess, he's a rescue) and doing GREAT. The cost is very little, pennies a day and will worth it. His hair grow back beautiful, he's happy and a total joy.

It's not and wasn't the food in my opinion. Like I said my boy had every symtom you have described. Very common for chows to have hypothyroid and it's very easy and inexpensive to treat. Go see you vet...............................everything will be fine.

Sydney

[Auddymay]

Ly has been going through skin issues a couple years now. It is frustrating, expensive, and in the end could be a combination of things.

In Lily's case, she likely has sebhorrea, which cannot be cured, but controlled. She just finished a round of antibiotics, which treats a symptom. She is just finishing up prednisone, which also just treats a symptom. She has been on a product called Avix booster which is a whole food vitamin supplement containing red palm fruit oil. Lastly, I give periodic baths to contol skin flaking with a product called Keratolux.

Before getting to this point, she was tested for mange, thyroid, had skin scrapings for yeast and bacterias (that is what is the primary cause of hotspots), and went on a limited ingredient diet...duck and potato in varying forms. Seasonal allergies can also be a culprit, as well as flea and/or mite allergy.

Daunting, isn't it? YES! And frustrating as hell. All we want is our Chows to be happy and healthy. Start with the diet and a test for thyroid. A skin scrape will tell what is going on for a specific antibiotic. Above all, as you can see from other posts, you are not alone. Good luck, and my wishes for a quick diagnosis.

[Jdcell100]

We took our little bear to vet in January because she was biting and itching on her back legs so bad she was loosing hair back there vet put her on steroids and antibiotic and it stopped completely hair grew back. Every once in a while if I see him itching more then normal I give him a half of steroid for a day or 2 and that knocks the itch right out of him. I'll always be with I prescription of steroids on hand pretty cheep from the vet I think 20 of them is 10 bucks

[MissV]

wow! thank you for all your advice.
Victory, THANK YOU! your post is just what i needed to get me back to a cooked diet for Slush. When i got her - I was adamint that i wasnt going to feed her any commercial food, but after taking her to a vet (not the one I have now) she told me that I should feed hills or eukanuba because it made sure my dog was getting all that it needed. At puppy school, the teachers told me that "of course the Vets going to say that! They get a cut back of all the products sold!"
So... i was torn.
I was feeding a diet of chicken breast boiled in water, then brown rice and carrots. She used to love it. I used the measurements 1/3 of each. She stopped enjoying it when i put her on Hills. She liked that much better so I thought it was good for her. But she was SOOOO stinky, I swapped her over to Eukanuba. She doesnt stink as much anymore and loves Eukanuba more than she loved hills. I hope I can convert her back to a holistic cooked diet without too much fuss.
She loves pilchards though, so many I can use that as the protien in her diet for a while?
Also, can I give her fresh raw chicken pieces with bone in? I know i cant give cooked bone.

I will def head on over to the vet to get her thyroid checked! Just need to wait for payday though as all these tests have def racked up the bills.
I am NOT putting my dog on any more anti-biotics or steriods. The long term damage those do internally are far worse than whats going on to her externally right now - and her liver is still developing, so I want to give her a chance.

Thank you for all your wonderful feedback. I honestly would never have thought of some of the suggestions that came up. Bless you all <3

[aglag]

Hello,

I went through over three years of trials and tribulations with my chow’s severe skin problems. He just turned five years old and his bottom coat has just come out completely. His skin problems started when he was one years old. We did not know what he had and spent lots of money with varies Vets and a dermatologist. My chow had lil red to purple sores that would come out on his skin some with clear liquid/pus, then it would dry up and form a scab. He was very itchy and scabby and he started to have lots of hair loss. He looked like he had the Mange. I thought his hair would never grow back until I found the following information on the Internet. I swear by it and still use it today. It is called Microtek by Eqyss. I used the pet skin relief shampoo and conditioner. I also used the Mega-tek coat rebuilder. This worked 100% for my chow – even on the bald spots, hair started to grow back. Bear in mind, this shampoo is basically used on horses, but if you read all about it, it is used for dogs and cats and humans. Google it (micro-tek by Eqyss) and you will be amazed at what they say about it.
I also use the Douxo Shampoo, the Douxo Seborrhea Micro-emulsion Spray and the individual ampules when he does not show any signs of sores or scabs. It is a fabulous shampoo. I used the Micro-tek shampoo when he had this really bad case of skin problems then when it was gone; I started using the Douxo Shampoo and use it now for his grooming. I also keep the Douxo ampules on hand for any sore that pops us and when they do, I nip it in the bud immediately with the ampule. See pictures of my dog on his facebook page. The link doesn’t work, but if you are on facebook, just type jujublkchow and you will see him. He was shaven down at the very beginning of his treatments. While you there, you might want to add him as a friend. Hope this helped you. By the way, this shampoo is international from Amazon.com

p.s. I also went through the process of elimination of foods but that did not help the situation. It was a BIG waste of money not to mention time consuming. I do not give him dog food that contains grains. I do cook for him and mix it with his dog kibbles (turkey, duck, steak – small portions ) - (he is on Taste of the Wild dry food - kibbles) for many years now. Can food (wet) varies, Evangers, Wellness, Blue Diamond (but only the stews), to a cheap brand of Chef Michaels which he loves. This has been going on for years as well and my dog is doing fine. Different dogs behave differently on certain foods and shampoos etc. What works for one dog might not work for another. So bear that in mind. Nothing beats a failure but a try.

[MissV]

thanks :>

I took slush to the groomer and they did a stellar job with her (since its really hard for me to bath her) - and the cooked food seems to be doing some good. I've been feeding her home cooked food since the last post (so for 2 weeks now) and her skin has shown some signs of improvment already.
Dont know if it was the groomer or the food - but shes looking MUCH better already. I'm monitoring the patches on her legs for growth and will let you know. Meanwhile, this dog has never been so happy eating chicken, rice and veg! She actually brings her little bowl to me for more *so cute*
I will never feed kibble again!