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Cruciate issues

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 3:58 pm
by 3blackchows
Hello chow luvers,
I'm new 2 the site, bit not w/ chows. I am not a breeder; all my kids are fixed. I had a male (my 1st chow) who lived to be 14 yrs old. Completely heathly & all the sudden his back end wnet out & he cudn't walk. Had to be put down. He was my first child & I still morn him; it's been 4 yrs. His mate, had to put her down 1 yr ago this month; she was 2 weeks shy of being 14 yrs & I morn her too.
I have 3 more @ home & 1 I'm reallyw orried about. The 3 at home range in age, 2 1/2 yrs, 14 months & 9 months. I have never experienced any hip or limping issues until Feb 2006. Irish (14 months) & 63 lbs. He's a big boy, but no fat to speak of; both parents were the biggest chows I've ever seen. He was thr runt; go figure. Irish started limping & we figured he overdid it in the yard. A couple of days later; still limping. Slow to get up & down. I wfelt up & down spin, legs & thigh & got no reaction from my big lug. Took him to the vet; they feared it was a hip so he had 2 b x-rayed. Hips were perfect; Dr. said maybe growing pains & sent me home w/ Rimadyl. My poor son did NOT do well w/ the anesthesia. I was advised he was fine when he went under months prior for his neuter. I laid by his side all nite; was nearly 18 hrs before he was himself again & I felt like the worst person on the earth & vowed he wud never go under again. It's now July & we've been refilling the Rimadyl & giving when he's limping really bad, not used everyday. We notice he doesn't eat well & I know it's not good to be on this RX. I have been giving vitamin C 500 mg & glucosamine chondriton, have seen some improvement; however fear it cud be a cruciade issue?
Not sure about spelling?? Can anyone tell me about this?
Sorry for the long story, I'm totally worried about my son & can not put him under again.

Posted: Tue Jul 18, 2006 8:16 pm
by Zhuyos mom
Welcome. Mandy's Cayenne had surgery for a torn ACL, I believe it is. Here are links to her post. ... t=cruciate ... t=cruciate

The first post has another link to a site that Kiwani found for Mandy.

I hope this info is helpful to you. I'm sure more members will jump on and offer you more advise, share experiences and offer support.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:27 am
by Mandy
Hi there!

My sweet Chewie had his crutiate repaired... here is a link to the diary of his recovery ... highlight=

Cayenne has arthritis in her joint but they would have seen that in X-rays. So it wouldn't have been that.

Our vet was able to tell Chewie had torn his ACL just by doing some basic movements on his leg. Chewie is also a 63 lb boy.

If you need any personal advice feel free to PM me! I don't check everyday but try to keep up a couple time a week.

Hope Irish starts feeling better soon!

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 8:31 am
by Zhuyos mom
Mandy wrote:
My sweet Chewie had his crutiate repaired...
Opps, it was 50/50 ... Cay or Chewie... Chewie or Cay. I first typed in Chewie and then changed it to Cay. Oops...

re: Irish

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:49 am
by 3blackchows
Thank you so much for the links & helpful information. :D
I'm still trying to figure out how the site works.
I was up until after 1am viewing info on ACL.
I'm not 100% sure this is Irishs' problem.
He puts weight on it & I watch him dart across the yard chasing birds. He loves to snuggle & attempts to jump on the bed but can't get up as our bed is to high. However he's able to jump up enuf then stretches & has his chest & front legs resting on the bed. He is also quite limber for a big boy. He is the first one I've had who lays completely on his stomach & stretches his back feet behind him & then tucks them up under his tail. I e-mailed a web vet last nite as I assumed he wud not be able to move his knees like this if there were issues w/ the ACL.. I'm waiting for a response. I did also read that a vet can determine if it's an ACL issue by moving the knee; however they sedate when doing that & after what he & I went thru in February, I just can't put him under again.

On another note; how do you guys get the photos of your kids in the profile. I thought I was real good w/ computers...until now :lol:

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 9:56 am
by kiwani
Re: "however fear it cud be a cruciade issue?"

The *bigger* fear seems to be the heavy-handedness of the vet dosing the sedatives and anesthetics, and brushing off "growing pains" with rimadyl. I suggest that you get a thorough exam from another doctor, so that you know exactly what the problem is. Cruciate injuries are common after neutering, but it still could be something else, something still repairable, and in the hands of a better doctor, the anesthesia would be the smaller risk I'd take, rather than a life time of pain and rimadyl use.

Best wishes.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 1:32 pm
by Mandy
I just wanted to say that we did not have chewie under any anesthetic for the testing. Our vet loves our chows and has no fear of them so didn't feel any need to do that.

I'd look around and see if you can find a vet that will test him without sedating him.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:39 pm
by TiVo's Mom
I know this is a long shot but just thought I'd mention it. We had trouble with our mal limping last year. We kept checking his leg, foot, etc. couldn't find anything. It was close to his annual vet visit so we had the vet look at it and he had a tumor growing under the pad of his foot. Once the vet showed it to us we could see that the pad was extended somewhat but what really threw us off is that the way he was limping we kept checking the other leg. I know, DUH! We felt like very bad parents. The tumor was able to be surgically removed, though it had grown around one of his toes and the toe had to be removed. I don't know if you're familiar with how large and hairy a mal's feet are but you couldn't tell the toe was missing once his hair grew back and he was just fine afterwards.

Posted: Wed Jul 19, 2006 6:54 pm
by 3blackchows
I didn't even think of that! I will check his peds & feet. :D Don't feel like a bad mom. My precious Laurel who is in heaven now, had nails that grew like weeds. I had her on glucosamin & chrondriton after she turned 11 as I noticed she was slow to get up. I saw a difference in her step in about 3 weeks. Then came my 3rd chow, she was a pup & Laurel wud play w/ her & I was amazed at how Laurel was keeping up with the pup; although I think it made her nails grow rather quickly, I don't have any other answer for it. Her thumb nail as I call it, was missed during her monthly nail trim @ I noticed her chewing & licking the area. The nail was starting to grow into her skin. I felt so bad I cried. We all miss things on our kids, don't feel bad. I wish they cud tell us when they hurt.

Posted: Fri Jul 21, 2006 6:34 pm
by 3blackchows
I checked Irishes feet up & down & didn't find a thing.
I read somewhere on-line sometimes there are issues w/ the hock joint. I'll cehck that next.

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:24 pm
by 3blackchows
An update on Irish... or a nervous mom just being a chatty cathy or lady chatterly as Raymond from Everybody Loves Raymond put it.

There has not been a signficant improvement in Irish since
I originally posted this thread. I met w/ my vet & he
said it may still be growing pains, however felt the next step to see a board certified orthopedic surgeon was a good one. Our appt is tomorrow @ 10am. I knew I may not sleep, it's 11:20pm here & I've taken 2 tylenol pm's. I guess it's working on me like the ACE does on them when frightened?? I'm fearing the worst but praying for the best. Hopefully it will kick in soon or I'll need a case of redbull to wake me up.

Posted: Wed Aug 16, 2006 7:35 pm
by Yvonne
Good luck to you and Irish tomorrow.

Let us know how it goes.

Don't worry about being nervous, if my kids are sick I can't stand it and I'm continually wanting to talk to somebody. I will be on this board a whole lot the next time we have something happen to Brandon. So you guys might as well get ready!

Posted: Thu Aug 17, 2006 9:25 am
by 3blackchows
Thanks Yvonne.
I just came back from the appt & Irish has hip displasia in both hips & arthritis. I feel like my heart has been ripped out. I asked the surgeon why wasn't this detected in the
x-rays taken in Feb 2006. Surgeon said everything looked fine then. After having my heart riped out w/ this news, then I was kicked in the teeth becasue the surgeon said he doesn't do hip replacements anymore. I'm like I was reccomended to you & drove 30 miles in Atlanta traffic to the other side of the world & you don't do the surgery?
My options are:
1) replace hip joints w/ plastic balls, there will be no issue of arthritis ever. Could have infections though.
2) replace hip w/ steel & attach to bone. Somewhat limited movement for Irish. He'll never be a frisby dog (he isn't anyway).
3) Surgeon gv me something else as opposed to Rimadyl :
Deramaxx. I think I recall Buddies mom saying that was given to Buddy as well. I could keep Irish comfortable
w/ meds. At least this comes in a chewable form.
4) FHO or was it FHP, I can't remember the name thru my tears. They cut out the ball in hip socket & the tissues & muscle regenerate holding the leg in place. ** I do not like this option at all. I believe Irish is way to young &
plus doing it to both hips. Of course not at the same time, but what if the tissue & muscle don't grow back enough to stabilize his hip? To chancy for me.

I then asked ok, who do you recommend for a hip replacement?
He advised that I could go to UGA (University Of Georgia) or there is a private practice in The Carolinas who does this surgery. He said his dog had 1 hip replaced w/ the plastic ball proceedure @ UGA. I asked why didn;t he do it? He said that is a proceedure you have to do at least 1 or 2 times a week, he quit doing it becasue he would only do one once every 6 weeks & he didn't feel his skills were up to par.

I called the breeder who advised he has never has this problem w/ any of the studs or females that procide the litters. He's also never had pups. All of his dogs have had their hips x-rayed & he's never had anyone call about this who has purchsed one of their pups. He gv me the ph# to his vet, which just so happens to be at UGA. He immediately advised me he would give me a pup at no charge anytime I wanted one. He didn't even want verification from the surgeon, he felt so bad I think he was crying & trying to hide it. He said the only issues he's ever had w/ his pups were w/ the eyelid turning under ( I can't remember what it's called) & he's had 2 that had isues w/ their knees.

Of course, I was supposed to invest in pet insurance last weekend & never got to it. Now, I doubt they will cover any of the proceedures.

Thanks for listening & I'm sorry for the long story.

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 11:55 am
by Troy
Hi 3 Chows,

My chow chow Troy (was 13 months at the time) has not long since had his crucial ligment removed. Got up one morning and he was limping. We also thought he had damaged his leg running around the garden. However after a several visits to the vet he advised we visit a specialist. He took some x-rays and found that the crucial ligament had snapped. We decided that the best route to go down was an operation. Troy underwent a procedure called Tibial Plateau Levelling Osteotomy (TPLO) to treat the rupture of the cranial cruciate ligament. Unfortunately this is a major surgical procedure which in itself is technically demanding to perform but in the majority of cases the prognosis is usually excellent and the dog can return to full function on his limb and the lameness should resolve between 3-4 months after surgery.

However when Troy came home he hid for 2 weeks; wouldn't feed, hardly drank and barked continually. We thought that something had happened under the anesthetic as he didn't seem to be the same dog we left at the vet. In other words he was petrifried. However I've got to say that it seems to have worked and he goes for his first check-up next week.

I hope your dog hasn't snapped the ligament but it sounds awfully like it. I would suggest you seek specialist advice but be warned - it's a very expensive operation so I hope you've got your dog insured.

Good luck.

Posted: Thu Sep 28, 2006 4:27 pm
by Juniper
Troy- What insurance did you have and how long did you have the insurance before your chow tore his cruciate ligament? I've asked and others stated insurances have a tendency to claim that it is a genetic default and won't pay up or you must have the insurance for a year or more before they will pay for that kind of an injury.

My black chow is named Troy. :)

Posted: Tue Oct 03, 2006 11:39 am
by Troy
Hi Jennifer, Sheena & Troy,

Hope you got my previous e-mail. I've only just scrolled through the messages tonight. I'm sure it was 1 month after I insured Troy that I could make a claim. I have him insured for up to six thousand pounds and it's the same with my other dog. The company I use is Direct Line Pet Insurance but I don't know if they operate in the USA. If you need further information or assistance, please do not hesitate to contact me.

All the best.


Posted: Wed Oct 04, 2006 9:20 am
by 3blackchows
Oh poor Troy.
I've been out of town & then family came in the day after I got back from my business trip, I'm finally getting back to this site after being gone nearly 2 weeks.

Your poor baby has been thru so much. Poor thing, I could not imagine what he must have gone thru to make him so frightened for 2 weeks. That must have been really stressful for you.

Well, come to find out & I have it another post I think Hip Displasia is the subject - Irish has hip displacia in BOTH hips. I didn't have pet insurance at the time of his diagnosis - hwoever no inusrance company would cover this as they consider it genetic. There is only 1 place to get his surgery done & I can't even get these people to respond.... and it's a big university. The cost is $4,000 to $5,000 per hip & the recovery is long, some 3 to 4 months. I wish Troy a happy & speedy recovery & hope he will back to himself soon.

Cruciate Problems

Posted: Thu Oct 05, 2006 9:46 am
by Troy

Thank you for your kind thoughts. I'll keep you updated on his progress.

All the best.

Troy :(

Posted: Sun Oct 08, 2006 5:02 pm
by 3blackchows
How is he doing? Please keep us posted!!!
Our thoughts & prayers are with you.