Joint lubricants in the UK

[Sirchow]

Bramble and I are just back from our ortho vet appointment which lasted a hour and fifteen mins so was very thorough. Basically he says Bramble has cruciate desease which mean some degree of degeneration but he is not able without being more invasive to tell how bad it is. He was reluctant to do more xrays and manhandling of her because she is too you for TPLO surgery anyway which is what he would like to do for both legs. Meanwhile he says to discontinue all nsaid and pain killer unless neaded and to start very light exercise working up as she can manage. He said her back leg muscles had wasted quite a lot and he would not like to see them get any worse. So from what he says it is just keep her as well as poss till she is old enough for surgery. He was very good at explaining but obviously only comes at it from the angle of his training. He also said she will almost certainly suffer from Osteo Arthritis.

Feeling pretty gutted but not suprised.

[lola chow]

thinking of you xxxxxx and bramble xxxxxxx

[TJordan]

I am sorry. Bless her little heart. It is going to be tough on both of you. Hang in there and do the best you can until you can get her operated on.

[CoraP.]

Well, at least she can be a little more active now. I'm wishing you and Bramble all the best.

[Buddha4me]

Poor baby girl! At least you know where you stand, I know you have been waiting a painfully long time to see the ortho. You have a direction to head, and someone I hope you can count on for good advice when you need it along the way. I hope physcial activity will help her get her strength back, or at least improve it. Buddha Bear and I send you both all the best and big hugs

[AmberLea]

Kisses for Bramble from my lot xxx

[Judy Fox]

Oh dear - poor little soul. I am sorry .
It is going to be tough on you all.

Hugs from all of us.

[kiwani]

...He was reluctant to do more xrays and manhandling of her because she is too you for TPLO surgery anyway which is what he would like to do for both legs.

You might ask about this new technique...

Excerpt:
Dynamic tibial plateau leveling procedure
A new technique, called the dynamic tibial plateau leveling procedure (TPLP), can be used to treat cranial cruciate ligament rupture in growing immature dogs. The timing of the surgery is critical, and is specific to the breed of dog. This technique involves placing a screw in the cranial aspect of the growth plate of the tibial plateau. Growth is stopped at this region of the tibial plateau, yet the caudal aspect continues to grow. Over time the tibial plateau angle is leveled. The amount of leveling of the plateau is dependant on the preoperative tibial slope and the age of the dog at which the procedure is performed.

As the dog grows the top of the tibia levels, in essence the final result is the same as the TPLO, but with a much less aggressive surgery

http://www.vetsurgerycentral.com/dynamic_tplp.htm

[Sirchow]

Thank you kiwana. I am going to read up a bit more about it and then ring the ortho. Possibly that they don't do that opperation but it looks as though Bramble might be a good candidate for it given her age and they might be able to point me towards someone who does.

[Sirchow]

Kiwana I wonder if you know anything about Vaxamine-K-9 that I should take into account when deciding if I should give it to Bramble as I don't think she is going to manage 6 months without some medical help? It is begining to look as though you have a lot more options in the US than we do in the UK.

[Victory]

Here's hoping that she grows up to where she should be and they can do the surgery and make her feel better. I would look for a place that she can swim a little every day, swimming will stregthen those leg muscles, (and her other muscles) without stressing her joints, a 3-4 foot deep kiddie pool that you can stand in and help her swim in would do.

[kiwani]

Kiwana I wonder if you know anything about Vaxamine-K-9 that I should take into account when deciding if I should give it to Bramble as I don't think she is going to manage 6 months without some medical help?...

Going by their ingredients list below, there *are* better natural cox-2 inhibitor formulas available. I'm not sure how old Bramble is now, but depending on her age, there are more potent veterinary joint injectables such as Adequan and supplements like hyaluronic acid joint 'lubricants'. Some of the archived threads on these topics have already been moved to the
'best of...health/nutrition' sub-forums, while finding some of the
others will take me some time rummaging...

I'll be back in a few minutes with some links for you...


Vaxamine Ingredients: Proprietary blend of natural ingredients including Hops Strobile extract, Boswellia Serrate extract, Green Lipped Mussel extract, Yucca extract, Oleic acid, Black Ppper extract and Viamin E (29 IU)

[kiwani]

This hip dysplasia thread contains some of the information mentioned above:

topic - New HD string re surgery
http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=28&t=2133

[kiwani]

topic - Question about Glucosamine, Chondrotin & MSM
http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=7640

[Sirchow]

I have been looking at the various threads and trying to digest all the information and wondered which product would be best for Bramble (6 1/2 months). Holland and Barret Glucosamine, chondroitin & MSM (below) or Seraquin - somewhere I read that Glycoflex was not so good. I can get H&B one in other forms without the flavours just happened to have this one in the house. There are a lot of products and proceedures that you have in the US that I can't find in the UK. Could I also give her hyaluronic acid as well?

Vitamin C 500mg 833%
Zinc 0.46mg 3%
Boron 2.4μg
Cetyl Myristoleate 25mg
Cherry Fruit Concentrate 25mg
Evening Primrose Oil 50mg
Chondroitin Sulphate 150mg
Glucosamine 296mg (provided by Glucosamine Sulphate 2KCl 500mg)
Manganese 140μg
Methylsulphonylmethane 750mg (MSM)
Shark Cartilage 50mg

Brambles stomache is still not very good with intermittent Diarrhoea. She is on probiotics and fish oil and slippery elm bark at the moment and no other meds. Any suggestions would be welcome. She is now eating well.

Thank you for all the help.

[kiwani]

...wondered which product would be best for Bramble (6 1/2 months). Holland and Barret Glucosamine, chondroitin & MSM (below) or Seraquin - somewhere I read that Glycoflex was not so good.

Glucosamine 296mg (provided by Glucosamine Sulphate 2KCl 500mg)

One very important thing to keep in mind, when choosing a formula, is that there are different grades of quality/potency in the glucosamine. The glucosamine type listed in the Holland and Barret formula, is a poorer quality. It's not the pharmaceutical grade of glucosamine, the purest grade.

archived topic discussed: types of glucosamine to avoid
http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=7606


The Glyco-flex *is* pharmaceutical grade, and it's available in several strengths, but it may contain msg flavor enhancer in the 'smoke
flavor' ingredient. MSG may be a seizure trigger in some dogs.

I'm not familiar with Seraquin...

Brambles stomache is still not very good with intermittent Diarrhoea. She is on probiotics and fish oil and slippery elm bark at the moment and no other meds. Any suggestions would be welcome. She is now eating well.

If it's intermittent, would you link it with increased stress or
some treat perhaps (?)

Could I also give her hyaluronic acid as well?

I think there are combination joint formulas...will check when I can this weekend.

Edited to add: I found several combination formulas, containing pharmaceutical grade glucosamine/hyaluronic acid/and MSM sulfur. These seem better than the Seraquin. If you find brands available in your region, we can go over the formulas together...

[Sirchow]

Sorry to be a pain Kiwana but I wonder if you could let me know the brands that you found and I will try to find them here in UK or order from US as I am having no luck. cortaflex is the only product I have found and I don't know if all the ingredients are in a "good" form. What do you think? I presume Bramble is going to be on this for the rest of her life so I would rather get it right from the begining.

ANALYSIS
Protein ....................... 20.00% Glycine -----------------------4.00%
Fibre .............less than 1.00% Glutamine -------------------3.00%
Oils and Fats ................1.75% Glucuronic Acid -----------2.00%
Ash .................................2.60% Glutamic Acid --------------1.50%
Sulphur .........................1.20% Proline -----------------------1.30%
Hyaluronic Acid ----------5mg/2gm
INGREDIENTS: Maltodextrin, Dextrose, Soy Protein Hydrolysate,
Hyaluronic Acid, Glycine, L-Glutamine, Glucuronic Acid, Glutamic
Acid, L-Proline, Mucopolysaccharides, L-Alanine, L-Arginine, LSerine,
L-Valine, L-Histidine, L-Tyrosine, L-Isoleucine, Aspartic Acid,
Manganese Sulphate, Pyridoxine HCl, Ascorbic Acid, Sulphur,
Ammonium Propionate (a preservative), Natural and synthesized

[kiwani]

Sorry to be a pain Kiwana but I wonder if you could let me know the brands that you found and I will try to find them here in UK or order from US as I am having no luck. cortaflex is the only product I have found and I don't know if all the ingredients are in a "good" form.

The "cortaflex" formula doesn't seem to be what we want...

I just entered the keywords "hyaluronic acid, glucosamine HCl, MSM sulfur, canine formula" into the search engine and there were hundreds of brands to rummage/compare/study. Some are liquid versions, some are low potency, some have cheap fillers, some have sugar added, etc. I would suggest using the Glyco-Flex formulas for 'moderate' and 'maximum' joint support as a *guide* to gauge the potency of other brands. The rest is really a matter of personal preference.

For example, here's a link to a product made by the makers of Glyco-Flex, called Jointagen. It's high in MSM sulfur, moderate in pharmaceutical grade glucosamine, and has 30mg of the hyaluronic acid. It also contains brewer's yeast, which may be an itch trigger for certain dogs - so it's really a matter of what you find acceptable in a formula.


http://www.vetriscience.com/jointagen.php


When I have more time, I'll search again...

[Sirchow]

So as not to be greedy with board space Kiwana helped me find this product in the UK by PM. It might be useful to move this thread to a more appropriate place to befit others. Even if it does show my complete lack of understanding of chemistry. As I have said a number of times, you have a lot more options in the US.

THANK YOU SO MUCH KIWANA

Sirchow wrote:
http://www.discountvitaminsandherbs.com ... l&pid=3476

Hyaluronic Acid 120 Complex from Natures Concept
Ingredients:
Three capsules provide Sodium ( from Sodium Hyaluronate) 10mg, Vitamin C ( Ascorbic Acid) 100mg, Hyaluronic Acid ( from Sodium Hyaluronate) 120mg, MSM ( Methyl Sulfonyl Methane ) 1000mg, Chondroitin Sulphate 300mg, Glucosamine HCL 600mg, Shark Cartilage 100mg.

Does not contain sugar, starch, yeast, wheat, corn or soy

I really hope that I am getting some idea what you are talking about now
Have a nice Easter
Siriol


Yes, you've captured it! And since it's a three capsule a day dosage,
you can modify the strength as needed.

Happy Easter and best wishes!