Skin Scabs

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Trooper
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Skin Scabs

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Hi, My male chow Trooper (now 9 1/2 mos) as a puppy (2 months)came home with a runny nose and red bumps under his nose I thought was from moisture. He also had small crusty bumps on his head and ears which I thought were from his siblings sharp teeth. He also snored & breathing was 'congested' This was cleared up with antibiotics. Was always itchy too with scaly skin shedding when he scratched. Then along came a severe underbelly/groin rash which for the most part was welts, infected in spots. Off to the vet and got biopsies and pustules taken and sent to the lab. Advised he had a pyoderma - bacterial infection of the skin. Has been on Apo-Amoxi Clav 500/125mg for 2 1/2 months. The rash has cleared, however along the way during all of this & while under this medication....Trooper still gets crusty bumps which grow upwards like 'warts' with a sticky oozing underneath them until they get all dried out and he scratches them off or are picked/brushed off by me when grooming so I can then get to the 'bed' of the sore and sponge bathe with sea salt and/or Pyroben. They 'rise up' on bridge of his nose, lower ridge of his lips, crusties in his ears, on his tail, front lower legs, upper corners close to his eyes. Not all at once - they rotate! His food has been changed (2 months ago) to a high quality (& expensive)lamb only (without any other animal ingredients) and his treats are lamb, pork ears, white rawhide 'bones'. I have read all 46 pages of pre-posts and on all topics relating to skin. I was interested in the Children's Benadryl (allergies) and the yellow listerine for open sores. I'm hoping someone else has experienced more of Trooper's symptoms to assist me further. I and especially Trooper would really appreciate all suggestions/solutions - hopefully either naturally or at least over the counter. Many thanks.
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kiwani
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Re: Skin Scabs

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Trooper wrote:...The rash has cleared, however along the way during all of this & while under this medication....Trooper still gets crusty bumps which grow upwards like 'warts' with a sticky oozing underneath them until they get all dried out and he scratches them off or are picked/brushed off by me when grooming so I can then get to the 'bed' of the sore and sponge bathe with sea salt and/or Pyroben. They 'rise up' on bridge of his nose, lower ridge of his lips, crusties in his ears, on his tail, front lower legs, upper corners close to his eyes. Not all at once - they rotate!
Your description reminded me of this archived link discussing keratin cysts, follicular keratoses. There were several more threads to this old story as it developed, if you're interested.

http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10560


The combination of your young pup's underdeveloped immune system, the skin infections, plus the side-effects of the anti-biotics, would have all contributed to increased inflammation, plus changes such as skin thickening, etc. While you've made an effort to improve his diet, the rawhide treats and the pig ears undo your good work, because those types of treats increase inflammation. The pig ears especially, are fatty treats, and the rawhide can also contain harmful preservatives. Both of these contribute to existing skin problems, increase skin itch.

There's a lot of information in the full series of that particular archived story. Vitamin A is one of the important factors in regulating keratin disorders, B-complex and sulfur are also important to skin health and also the immune system. Since you've already reviewed the entire archives, you also know about the importance of omega-3 fish oils and probiotics, etc.

I'll continue with more tomorrow...
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Re: Skin Scabs

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kiwani wrote:
Trooper wrote:...The rash has cleared, however along the way during all of this & while under this medication....Trooper still gets crusty bumps which grow upwards like 'warts' with a sticky oozing underneath them until they get all dried out and he scratches them off or are picked/brushed off by me when grooming so I can then get to the 'bed' of the sore and sponge bathe with sea salt and/or Pyroben. They 'rise up' on bridge of his nose, lower ridge of his lips, crusties in his ears, on his tail, front lower legs, upper corners close to his eyes. Not all at once - they rotate!
Your description reminded me of this archived link discussing keratin cysts, follicular keratoses. There were several more threads to this old story as it developed, if you're interested.

http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=10560


The combination of your young pup's underdeveloped immune system, the skin infections, plus the side-effects of the anti-biotics, would have all contributed to increased inflammation, plus changes such as skin thickening, etc. While you've made an effort to improve his diet, the rawhide treats and the pig ears undo your good work, because those types of treats increase inflammation. The pig ears especially, are fatty treats, and the rawhide can also contain harmful preservatives. Both of these contribute to existing skin problems, increase skin itch.

There's a lot of information in the full series of that particular archived story. Vitamin A is one of the important factors in regulating keratin disorders, B-complex and sulfur are also important to skin health and also the immune system. Since you've already reviewed the entire archives, you also know about the importance of omega-3 fish oils and probiotics, etc.

I'll continue with more tomorrow...
Hello...with many Thanks for your information. I did indeed visit the other threads. Noticed the remedy however is surgical? in most? I would hope not & how when these are small items in several locations. I see the other information included Vitamin A, B Complex + Sulphur and as you pointed out also OImega 3 Fish Oils and Probiotics (can I give him yogurt?). Can this & how much be added to water/food for a 50 lb. 9 1/2 month old?
I also read with interest your point of Trooper's underdeveloped immune system - so I can only hope this will improve with age? The rawhides I was referring to are the white 'styrofoam' type not the darker smoked/oily type - so will this be OK?
Also I will stop the pigs ears as yes, they are oily. What can I give him for treats? I give him a boiled egg once in a while and he loves playing with it (whole) before chowing down on it without a slight spec left anywhere on the floor! LOL
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Re: Skin Scabs

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Trooper wrote:...Noticed the remedy however is surgical? in most? I would hope not & how when these are small items in several locations.
'Surgical' is just a technical term for 'use of instruments and cutting'. Lancing a boil could technically be called 'surgery' :)

Having read the archived posts, you are now aware that there are a variety of skin keratin disorders (keratin=building blocks of skin/hair) Some of the wartier types can be excised, while squeezing some of the more cyst-like types can just increase inflammation. The problem comes from trapped skin oils forming an hospitable environment for the bacteria and yeasts which are normal residents of the skin surface. When the immune system is well developed, these bacteria and yeasts are kept well under control. When the immune system is weakened, these same bacteria and yeasts gain a foothold and can cause problems such as you are seeing.


Trooper wrote:I also read with interest your point of Trooper's underdeveloped immune system - so I can only hope this will improve with age?
Some pups are born with weaker immune systems, depending on prenatal care - but puppy immune systems in general take time to develope fully. The disadvantaged ones are often troubled with skin problems early on, and adding a course of antibiotics results in weakening the immune system further. A large part of the immune system is in the gut. That's where the important vitamin factories are. Antibiotics, as a side-effect, wipe out the good army in the immune system and allow the harmful army to flourish. Optimal nutrition, including potent immune system building supplements, nurturing loving care, all work towards keeping the immune system strong.


Trooper wrote:The rawhides I was referring to are the white 'styrofoam' type not the darker smoked/oily type - so will this be OK?
The white ones may be preserved with arsenic, if they are made in China. Arsenic can collect in the skin. The bleaching agents are also harmful to the immune system.


Trooper wrote:Also I will stop the pigs ears as yes, they are oily. What can I give him for treats?
I believe that real wholesome food is the best treat. We've had a thread devoted to treat ideas. I'll try to find it...


Trooper wrote:I give him a boiled egg once in a while and he loves playing with it (whole) before chowing down on it without a slight spec left anywhere on the floor! LOL
Eggs are an excellent food for the skin and coat, containing important B-vitamins, sulfur, protein, etc.


Trooper wrote:I see the other information included Vitamin A, B Complex + Sulphur and as you pointed out also OImega 3 Fish Oils and Probiotics (can I give him yogurt?). Can this & how much be added to water/food for a 50 lb. 9 1/2 month old?
The vitamin A is best taken from natural food sources such as animal livers taken in small amounts. The B-complex is usually prescribed in therapeutic doses of 50mg formulas. Sometimes you'll find the B-complex with sulfur as a combo formula for skin health. The omega-3 fish oils are the human grade product one or two capsules a day. Plain yogurt is ok, but not very potent when compared to Probiotic capsules. There's an archived Probiotics thread, I'll bring forward for you.
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Re: Skin Scabs

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Here's the link to the Probiotics thread...

http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7500
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Re: Skin Scabs

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Hello again;
You are such help! thanks...The nat. dried liver snack I used to give Trooper was beef so I stopped a while back. However there is a lamb dried liver so I could get those for Vitamin A & protein. They are natural and dried. Would like the thread for probiotics & treats, thanks. Is the B-complex/sulphur along with the omega 3 over the counter? with the 50 mg doses you described for a 50 lb. Chow? The two capsules a day Omega 3 = 50 mg? for both @ 25 mg. each time?
I am hopeful of his immune system maturing. I am nearing the end of the second full month on the Apo-Amoxi Clav 500/125mg. x 2 tablets daily....excuse my ignorance - are these antibiotics? I am considering weaning him off these slowly instead of cold turkey - like down to 1 per day & see what happens. I have another refill for another month if need be. I have just been apprehensive to cut him off - even though the rash - pyroderma skin problem seems cleared. I just don't wish it to return which then may require a different remedy once you stop the old one. His skin scabs continue, but at least the rash was gone - one less discomfort for the little guy. Brenda
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Re: Skin Scabs

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kiwani wrote:Here's the link to the Probiotics thread...

http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=7500
Thank you! Brenda
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Re: Skin Scabs Food changed to:

Post by Trooper »

Hi,
Just wanted to advise...the food Trooper is eating now is dried kibble - Nature's Variety - Holistic Pet Foods - namely the Prairie Lamb Meal & Oatmeal Medley one - (other formulations available using different meats/fishes) all formulated to meet nutritional levels est. by AAFCO Dog Food Nutrient Profiles for all Life stages.
For more information: http://www.naturesvariety.com
Available thru Pet Food Stores - (Ryan's)
Cheers.... Brenda
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Re: Skin Scabs - Boiled Egg Treat

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"Eggs are an excellent food for the skin and coat, containing important B-vitamins, sulfur, protein, etc."

Hi, Kiwani - I just remembered - eggs are 'chicken' & possibly the reason I havn't given them too often to Trooper - if allergy & that I changed him to Lamb only. Comments?
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Re: Skin Scabs

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Trooper wrote: Is the B-complex/sulphur along with the omega 3 over the counter? with the 50 mg doses you described for a 50 lb. Chow? The two capsules a day Omega 3 = 50 mg? for both @ 25 mg. each time?
The B-complex, the sulfur, the omega-3 fish oil, are all over-the-counter. Human grade supplements are superior to animal grade supplements, because there is less regulation of animal grade supplements. The fish oils should be labeled toxin-free. The 50mg B-complex is the therapeutic dose, for dogs too. The fish oil capsule is usually labeled in the 1000's mg range. Or you could feed canned salmon (salt free) several times a week.

Trooper wrote: I am hopeful of his immune system maturing. I am nearing the end of the second full month on the Apo-Amoxi Clav 500/125mg. x 2 tablets daily....excuse my ignorance - are these antibiotics?
Yes, you are dosing antibiotics twice daily. The side-effect is that they're lowering the immune system, not maturing it, they interfere with the very building blocks needed to build healthy skin, they contribute to the skin thickening which is linked with the keratin ooze problem, and they are altering the skin's immune defenses.
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Re: Skin Scabs - Boiled Egg Treat

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Trooper wrote:I just remembered - eggs are 'chicken' & possibly the reason I havn't given them too often to Trooper - if allergy & that I changed him to Lamb only. Comments?
I usually recommend omega-3 eggs. These are from free-range organic chickens which are fed a more natural diet lower in inflammatory fats.

The main problem with the average chicken is their corn-fed diet which promotes inflammation. Once you balance the immune system with anti-inflammatory fats, such as the fish oils, "average chicken allergy"
becomes less of a problem. Dogs' diets are usually *overloaded* with inflammatory fats from treats, etc., and these increase the itch factor and the allergy factor. The itch factor is what introduces the resident skin bacteria and yeasts deeper into the skin, and when the immune system is weakened, these can cause skin disorders.

You can't sterilize the world with antibiotics, but you can strengthen the immune system enough so that the body can fight it's own battles and maintain a healthy balance without meds.
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Re: Skin Scabs

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Solo has had issues with scabs too. They seem to pop up overnight and I have yet to nail down a cause. He gets very few treats but after reading the this and related threads the only treats he gets, those Dogswell chicken jerky things, might be suspect. I just switched him back to Solid Gold Wolf King from Eagle Pack Lamb and Rice Holistic. I also mix Wellness canned with warm water to a gravy like mix to pour on top, and he gets that once a day. The wet mix he gets is about a 1/4 cup a day.

They seem to form only on his back and neck, but I don't see and weeping or oozing. I pick at the scabby material and usually it pulls right off with hair along with it. A patch about the size of a silver dollar was pulled off with hair leaving a bald spot. I rubbed on some pure aloe-vera and it cleared up and hair began to regrow soon after.

He has always has some skin issues but after 2.5 years of care they continue. I will try adding fish oil and stop with the Dogswell treats and see if it subsides.
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Re: Skin Scabs

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Sojourner11 wrote:They seem to form only on his back and neck...
The areas along the spine and neck have more oil glands, plus dog collars are breeding grounds for yeasts and staph.
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