Purina Dog Food

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 6:43 am

I have been here since November when Koda was given to me. So most everyone here has been there with me and for me as Koda I went through his early puppy days (like 5 months is old). LOL So this post isn't necessarily for everyone who already knows what I have been through with Koda and dog food. Xenia asked about feeding Nutro and teenage Jeff asked what to feed his pup. So this is more for their benefit. First of all guys... please, please, please listen to the members of this board. Everytime I had a question, these guys have rallied around me. They didn't condem me when I didn't do all of the things they suggested right away, but ultimatly, I did end up having to pay heed to their advice. I considered myself an experienced chow owner, afterall... Koda was my second chow, not my first. But with Sasha I was uneducated and did alot of things wrong. I had a beautiful, well behaved chow girl that I loved with all my heart. But that beautiful chow girl also died at a very early age and maybe had I been as educated back then as I am and continue to be now, I may have had my girl with me longer than 8 years. There is TONS of good research on the web about chows and taking care of them. I didn't have that while I was raising my girl. Take advantage of that. This message board has got to have 200+ years of chow rearing experience combined. These people know what they are doing. The vast amount of knowledge here is truly amazing. Take advantage of it. Now... with that said:
I can't stress to either Xenia or Jeff, just how much all of Purina's dog food suck. If you can buy it at discount stores or grocery stores, then it isn't the dog food for your chow. Yes, dogs eat that stuff every day and live long lives. But... they live lives of constantly running to the vet for a variety of health problems and aren't as healthy as they could be. You are what you eat, is also true in chows. My Koda's BYB weaned Koda on Purina One Lamb and Rice for puppies, which out of the Purina brands is one of the better foods (if there is such a thing). So I of course continued to feed that to Koda when I got him. I did eventually put him on Purina One Large Breed Puppy formula because Koda is going to be a big boy and I decided he was going to need that "extra stuff" in the large breed puppy formula. He continued to do well on that. My vet and I talked about feeding Koda on our very first visit. He told me the same thing I had learned here... chows have the potential for food allergies. Our vet said as long as Koda wasn't showing any signs of food allergies, go ahead and feed him Purina, but if he did, then I would have to switch to one of the premium. more expensive dog foods. Koda did fine on the Purina until 6-8 weeks ago. Then I noticed he was itching and loosing fur... tons of hair balls everywhere. I use Frontline on him for fleas so I know that wasn't it. It was way too early for Koda to be blowing his puppy coat. Using process of elimination, I decided he was starting to show signs of food allergies and I took him off all Purina products and any treats that had corn and wheat in them. We went to Nutro Lamb and Rice Large Breed Puppy Formula for both his kibble and his canned food and Nutro treats for his treats. The change is amazing. The itching has stopped, the hair balls almost down to nothing now and Koda is alot more comfortable now. I do supplement with B-complex and fish oil capsules daily and 2 times a week for breakfast I give Koda a bowl of brown rice and a scrambled egg mixed together instead of his canned Nutro, but again, I can't tell you the difference in Koda is like night and day. He was neutered and also had belly button hernia surgery 2 weeks ago and for the most part, you'd never know he had any surgery. That's because his immune system is getting stronger from the diet change and the B-complex. The help and knowledge came from the people on this board. Like I said, these people truly do care and are very knowledgable.

mafiosa728 · Post by **mafiosa728** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:33 am

Wow Nancy, thanks for sharing that. I sure don't want Maximus going through allergies and itch.

Well I just got him Nutro natural choice lamb & rice meal (the one for large breed puppies). As I expected, it cost considerably higher than what I've been feeding him. Also, I had to do a bit of traveling, since I live in the province and there aren't a lot of pet stores here. I looked at some stores here, but they haven't got the premium ones, so I left for the nearby city. But of course, cost and effort are worth keeping my Maximus healthy and happy.

About the B-complex, I'll talk to his vet, coz maybe the vet has some available in his clinic.

I'm very much open to suggestions and recommendations. I'm a first-time parent so I'm really glad to be here.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 7:58 am

Glad to hear it Xenia. I have Koda on exactly the same dog food and altho it is more expensive, in the long run, I think both of us will save money. Because it's a premium dog food, they don't eat as much of it, so it will last longer than regular dog food. I don't know which Purina Product you were using, but there wasn't that big a difference in price of the Purina One as opposed to the Nutro. I was spending about 30.00 a month (40 pounds of dog food... 2 dogs) for Purina One, the Nutro cost 36.00 (again 40 pounds). Also, stools aren't near as big because Nutro doesn't have all of the fillers in it. I promise you, you are going to see the difference in more ways than one. I have to drive to the city to get Koda's Nutro also. So I understand that one too. But it's worth it to make sure he is happy, comfortable and not itching and shedding the way that he was. Plus we make it a day trip since one of my daughters and my grandbaby live in the city where I have to go get Nutro, so we just go over there to visit with them while we are in town. So, it's all good.

As far as the B-complex is concerned, that wasn't something my vet recommended. That was a recommendation that came from Kiwani. Koda had had multiple vaccinations (the last of his series of puppy shots and his rabies shot) at the same time and between that, some of his anxiety and timidness, the shedding and itching, and the fact that he was about to get neutered and have his belly button hernia repaired, Kiwani recommended putting him on B-complex. I went to a health food store and got it. I also give him fish oil capsules for the Omega 3's, which was also another recommendation from Kiwani. If you will go back to all of the different posts about what we feed our dogs, you will see alot of both Kiwani's and Victory's recommendations for feeding, plus alot of input from the other board members.
Hugs from me and purple kisses from Koda to both you and Maximus!

sweetpea · Post by **sweetpea** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:11 am

Nancy, where did you get the Nutro? This town doesnt sell anything good. We have to go to Decatur to find anything good. Because we dont get out of town often, I will need to get a large bag or two at a time. So question 2, how much would the largest bag cost? We are feeding 3 dogs right now.

If not Nutro, what other foods would be good to look for? We are going to Decatur Monday. And I'm putting my foot down this time. I'm working too so I'm insisting I get my dogs a good food. But I have to be able to buy a large bag. I bought eggs just for the dogs and I should have Vit.B already which I'll start them on. ANy other tips from anyone is sure welcome.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:27 am

Hey Becky....
I love it cause both of us live in such close proximity of each other than we can help. We have got to get together with our furkids for lunch or something. LOL
Anyway, I got Koda's Nutro at Petsmart in Springfield. Petco has it also. They just opened a new Petsmart in Decatur... probably out by Forsyth Mall, so you should be able to find it and I know Decatur has a Petco also. Decatur would be closer for me too than driving to Springfield, but since Jodi and the baby live in Springfield, that's where I go so we can see them too. I was buying the 20 pound bags of Purina One every 2 weeks (payday... LOL) since I could get it in Taylorville at Wal-Mart (8 miles from Stonington and also where I work), but since I had to go to Springfield for the Nutro, I bought the 40 pound bag. 2- 20 pound bags of Purina One cost 30.00, the 40 pound bag of Nutro cost me 36.00. So, not that big a difference. The Nutro also lasts longer than the Purina One did, so it won't have to be bought as often. I know I am sure glad I made the switch. I did go ahead and put Koda on canned Nutro also. Since he is still kind of small, I just give him half a can mixed with his dry kibble every morning, 5 mornings a week. I'm not sure I will keep that up since he eats the dry kibble so well and his itching has subsided so much. I do give him a bowl full of brown rice mixed with one scrambled egg a couple times a week for breakfast, then if he's still hungry, he can eat some of his dry Nutro. Again, it was a super positive switch and I am sure glad we did.

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 8:35 am

Re: "About the B-complex, I'll talk to his vet, coz maybe the vet has some available in his clinic.
I'm very much open to suggestions and recommendations."

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Just keep the doctor informed of the kibble changes you're making, since your pup has already been given 'gel vitamins' and calcium tablets.

.

sweetpea · Post by **sweetpea** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 9:18 am

Nancy, I totally agree, we will have to get together. Be interesting to see how our two timid girls will like each other. I'll bring Princess, she'll break the ice! I work evenings but Taylorville isnt that far, I could still go and be back before time to work (I have to work most weekends).
Well I told my husband that Monday I am buying good food for the dogs. Thank you Nancy for living so close, I said "NANCY SAID...", I also told him if he'd see the pictures of everyone's Chows he'd see that their coats look so healthy compaired to Gracie's on a good day!Also thru in the fact that I'm working to. I was in shock, he agreed to it! I told him we will just stop free feeding, get them on a schedule and as far as Kokomo is concerned, my daughter will either have to help buy the food or she will have to take on full responsiblity of him. I also told her that. She has until Monday to decide. Either way, if she lived in her own place she'd have to be the one to buy his food so there is no reason why she cant help out while staying here.

Ok, I have here B-50 Complex. So I will start giving them one a day? I am going to boil the eggs (which are on the stove now). Does it have to be brown rice or can it be white rice? We always have white rice. Anything else I should look for while I'm in Decatur? You know really, the price isnt that big of a difference for a large bag. I wont do the can food, no need to with this troop. Well I'm excited. I've been trying to convince him to let us buy better food since before we got Gracie. I might have to learn how to drive in Decatur, I'm just so dangerous driving in big areas like that. I'd never make it living in a city!

Post by **Auddymay** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 10:10 am

I recently switched my older girl over to 100% Natures Recipe dog food, she had Beneful or sometimes Sciece Diet before getting Lily. When I put Lily on NR for itching, she and Pip were actually doing a half and half of food mixture, because they share. It's been almost 2 weeks since I went all NR, and the past 2 days, poor Pip has had horrid gas and diarreha(sp?). She had a bad accident on the carpet while I was at the store last night. Her food smells okay, so I'm wondering if she didn't get into something outside. She is such a good girl, I feel bad she is going through this...

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 1:09 pm

Re: "poor Pip has had horrid gas and diarreha(sp?). She had a bad accident on the carpet while I was at the store last night. Her food smells okay, so I'm wondering if she didn't get into something outside."

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It could also be from the new treats you've mentioned. The ingredients include maple syrup and a lot of starches. That could do it.

.

Post by **Auddymay** » Sat Feb 25, 2006 4:47 pm

We've been out of the Lamb cuts (just got more today) and have been limited (read stingy) with the Nutro treats. Still, it could have been enough to cause a reaction.

I currently have 3 fairly expensive treats in front of me- Nutro's Chicken and rice sticks, which I just read the ingredients and there is wheat flour and wheat gluten...and yep, molasses. *sigh* Next, Old West Lamb Cuts (Lily's favorite)-stone ground whole wheat....great. Finally, Nature's RecipeVenison treats. I know there is no wheat corn or beef, but molasses is the fourth ingredient.

So much for thinking we are wheat free. I guess I'll be trying some new types when these are gone...I saw greenies as I was checking out, but was at my treat limit.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:01 am

Good deal Becky... glad to hear that hubby agreed with the food change. I really think you'll be glad you did. That Nutro will be good for all 3 dogs, not just Gracie. The difference in Koda is like night and day. I think after we finish this last flat of canned Nutro, I will quit giving him the canned. He eats the dry fine and with the brown rice and scrambled egg a couple times a week, he is doing fine. I just started the canned to put some extra moisture in Koda's diet until we got this skin thing straightened out, which it is.
As far as free feeding goes... we don't do it here. They get fed in the morning and then again at night when I come home from work and it seems to work just fine. As far as the brown rice goes... I don't have an answer for that one. Have to ask Judy, Kiwani or Victory about that one. I know Judy feeds M&M rice on a regular basis. What kind of rice do you use, Judy? I chose brown rice because that's what seemed to come up in nutritional discussions. We eat white rice here when we eat rice, so I had to buy brown for Kodie.
As far as your daughter helping with the food cost... I agree. You own a dog, you have that responsibility. If she doesn't want to have to pay for the Nutro... then the answer is buying your own choice of dog food. Matt and Amber have to go into Springfield to buy dog food today while they are running. It's their turn. Sam is their dog and that's teaching them responsibility. Granted, I do buy more dog food then they do probably 2 bags to their one, but when I put my foot down because of finances, then I tell them buy dog food. LOL I'm giving them my credit card today and having them pick up another 40.00 pound bag of Nutro and then Matt will give me the cash for half of it. Amber balked because of my feeding Nutro and up until I got Koda, they were buying Old Roy for Sam. But like I told them, if they don't want to have to buy the more expensive dog food, then Sam doesn't need to eat what I buy for Koda and they can keep Sam in his own dog food. I'm sure it will be harder to keep the food separate and keep each dog from eating the other's, but hey, if they want to do things that way, then so be it. So far they bite the bullet and do things my way. One of these days, Amber will be out on her own and I am sure Sam will go back to a less expensive dog food. LOL But for now, my dog and his health rules the roost here.

I scramble Koda's eggs, but Kiwani did suggest soft boiled egg yolk if he wasn't overly fond of the scambled... which now he has decided he absolutely loves. That boy likes making a liar out of me. LOL I've known for years that eggs once or twice a week is good for dogs... good for their coats. I don't know the other health benefits of eggs, that's another question for our resident advisors. LOL
Koda gets one B-complex and one fish oil capsule a day and he loves them. Thinks they are treats. LOL Amber gave them to Sam to see what he would do, he looked at her like "ARE YOU NUTTS?!?" One day when we had Sam to the vet, I asked about doggy Ritilin. LOL Sam is so hyper. It's almost like he looks for things to chew and ways to get into trouble. Koda is so well behaved, and then there is Sam. <sigh>
I'm sure our timid chowlings will do fine together, especially since mine is a little boy.

So we will have to get together since we are so close to each other. There is a great park in T-ville where maybe we can do a picnic lunch and let the kids have fun getting to know each other.

That would be alot of fun. I don't like driving in the city either.... living in small towns makes us wimps I think. LOL But I can and do drive to Springfield or Decatur when I have to. But I have to make myself do that since it's just me here. LOL

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 6:36 am

Re: "So much for thinking we are wheat free. I guess I'll be trying some new types when these are gone...I saw greenies as I was checking out, but was at my treat limit."

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Swancin posted an alert about Greenines in the Community Discussions forum, if you are interested.

If you have a hard time finding wheat-free treats, try baking your own. There are a lot of recipes, or create your own using cooked brown rice or oatmeal, eggs, liver, etc., toss in a blender, bake. You could even get Chow shaped cookie cutters too : )

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 7:13 am

Have any good recipes Kiwani? I guess I can do a Google search. LOL Kiwani is right, Auddymay... Greenies are a no-no. So it was good that you were at your limit at checkout. Not worth taking the chance with them.

Post by **Auddymay** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 9:06 am

A chow shaped cookie cutter would be too cute! I'd have to wrestle it from my human girl! Pip is improving, though she still isn't 100% yet. I split a can of NR Venison dog food with their usual food as a Sunday special meal. I avoid wet food as a rule, it tends to spoil them to the same old dry stuff. Every so often though, and they think I'm the greatest...hehe.

I'm considered a fairly intellegent person, one would think I could read the fine print on a bag of treats. I also wish they didn't sugar coat everything too. Dogs may like sweet, but it isn't as if they can be marketed to directly. There are so many other flavors they will eat that are good for them.

kiwani · Post by **kiwani** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:29 am

Re: "Have any good recipes Kiwani?"

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I never use recipes. I learned how to cook and mix ingredients by sight and feel : )

You could even try baby cereals, like Gerber Oatmeal flakes, some beaten egg, put some boiled meat with a bit of broth in the blender to make a meat paste, then mix it all together like dough, roll out and bake on a cookie sheet.

.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 11:41 am

Well... since we have babies, the Gerber baby cereals are in abundance around here. LOL I have never made treats before, but am sure thinking that I would like to try. I kind of looked on the web for awhile... everything called for wheat flour... just exactly what I don't want Koda to have. He is just doing so absolutely well thanks to the advice I got from everyone here and the Nutro, I just don't want to do anything else to stop this healing process of his. I bought Nutro snacks for him the last time I went to Petsmart (no wheat) and altho he will eat them, it is evident they aren't on his list of favorites. Which I guess isn't a big deal since he doesn't absoltely NEED treats. But treats for training and for special times would be nice. Sam has all of these treats that he eats just fine that I won't let Koda have and he looks at me like... this is just not fair. So I'd like to come up with something special for him that he truly enjoys.

simbasmom · Post by **simbasmom** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:14 pm

Here is a recipe for doggie cookies I found on the internet.. Coco loves them so does my son

I make them half the size as it says here and adjust the time.

Banana Mutt Cookies from Three Dog Bakery

Recipe By :
Serving Size : 0 Preparation Time :0:00
Categories : Three Dog Bakery Recipes

Amount Measure Ingredient -- Preparation Method
-------- ------------ --------------------------------
3 cups bananas -- mashed
1 tsp. vanilla
6 cups oats
1 cup peanuts -- chopped
1/3 cup applesauce -- unsweetened

Preheat oven to 350 degrees. Mix all ingredients together thoroughly. Use
teaspoon to drop on baking sheet sprayed with a nonstick cooking spray and
press flat. Bake for approximately 15 minutes, or until slightly brown.
Cool on a rack and store in an airtight container. Yield: approximately
2 dozen cookies.

ngraham · Post by **ngraham** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 12:56 pm

Thanks for the recipe.

Man forget the dog... those look good enough for me. LOL

simbasmom · Post by **simbasmom** » Sun Feb 26, 2006 1:02 pm

you are welcome.. I have lots of recipes but most are not wheat free, I downloaded a whole bunch from a website "master cook" or something like that and we have tried a few of them.. I did a search on line for doggie biscuit recipes and found the site.

Victory · Post by **Victory** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 8:31 am

mafiosa728 wrote: About the B-complex, I'll talk to his vet, coz maybe the vet has some available in his clinic.

I'm very much open to suggestions and recommendations. I'm a first-time parent so I'm really glad to be here.

I'd like to recommend Drs. Foster&Smith for vitamins supliments, omega oils supliments and all kinds of other stuff. You can get a catalog or go to the website: http://www.drsfostersmith.com/ I don't recommend getting heartgard of other medicines from there, (or any other website) but for brushes, beds, supliments and stuff this web site has good products, good prices and excelent convient service.

IliamnasQuest · Post by **IliamnasQuest** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 1:39 pm

In place of wheat flour, you can try rice flour (usually available in bulk food areas in the grocery store or in health food stores). I've also used a combination of rice flour and cooked rice.

You just add it in until the dough becomes the consistency you want.

I make up my own cookies too. I use a food processor, throw in the cooked meat (usually cooked, although I have used raw liver) and then any other ingredients I might want (I've used garlic powder, egg, oil, grated carrots, etc. - whatever you might want to add!). Once I have that all mixed, I start adding in the flour and/or rice. Usually I do a bit of flour, a bit of broth (from the cooked meat) and go back and forth so that it makes more dough.

I bake the cookies for a long time at 300° to make them of the proper crispness.

I started doing this for my Mom's dog who has tremendous allergies. The dogs LOVE them, of course! I usually freeze any cookies that aren't going to be used in a week or so.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska

mafiosa728 · Post by **mafiosa728** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:01 pm

Victory, thanks for the recommendation, I'll be reading the site shortly.

Oooh simbasmom, the recipe looks good enough for me. I might just try that so my Maximus could have some treats.

chowchowchow · Post by **chowchowchow** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:46 pm

Im feeding my chow furina puppy food for like 4days now. It havent show any sign of itching. should i change it. what are some of the better purina pup food. they have a compelete nutrution and a healty mosel or something like that.
If u think i should get another brand of pup food. what do u suggest. They have some other pup food in the grocery store(Theres no pet store within atleast 1 hr of driving) they were labeled puppy food. Does it mean that all pups can eat???(all the chow pup food are purinas, why arent there other brands of chow food?)

about the parasites? what should i buy to prevent them or get rid of them. my pup doesnt have any of these yet. but just to learn about it before it happens. Thank u 4 ur valuable time. greatly appriciated.!:)

willowchow · Post by **willowchow** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:54 pm

I've read lots of posts of what people feed their dogs and I've always felt bad to say this, but, I think I should.

While Nutro is a step up from Purina, it is definately not one of the best.

If you only have access to Petco, try Natural Balance. If you have Petsmart, they have Blue Buffalo.

Real holistic foods won't be found at these big chain stores but small feed stores, yup think horse and farm stuff.

A small list would be:

Innova, Canidae, Eagle Pack, Solid Gold, Nature's Variety.

If you think you're dog is looking good on Nutro, what until you see the difference on one of these.

Now, I'm certainly not downing anyone for not using these, I've tried with Willow but her stomach problems don't let me. But, I thought I would put this information out there.

willowchow · Post by **willowchow** » Mon Feb 27, 2006 5:56 pm

If you see BHA, BHT or ethoxyquin in the ingredient list, don't feed it to your dog. These are preservatives that may be carginogens. Also, propylene glycol, is a chemial that your dog doesn't need either.

I participate on another board that is very food oriented and I've learned a lot.