Food again

Topics, guidelines and tips for feeding Chow Chows.

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Jeff&Peks
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Food again

Postby Jeff&Peks » Sun Feb 19, 2006 2:27 pm

Has anyone tried the Nutro Ultra Holistic food? The Nutro Lady was at Pet-Smart today and had the bag on the table, I have never seen it before so I bought a bag, It has Salmon, Chicken, Lamb, sunflower oil, Flaxseed, Whole brown rice, Fish oil, Cranberry powder, kelp, oatmeal, garlic, alfalfa, tomato pomace and poultry fat, all supposedly Holistic. Pekoe seem to like it, she ate it as soon as I put it down. The salmon and fish oil is what caught my eye, Omega-3 that has become so popular on this site lately.

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Postby Rogansmommy » Sun Feb 19, 2006 4:44 pm

It sounds interesting. I might have to look and see if I can find it here. Nina's coat has been so dry lately, nothing is working.
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Postby ngraham » Sun Feb 19, 2006 6:10 pm

I haven't heard of it either... they didn't have it when I bought Koda's Nutro a couple of weeks ago. Must be something new? But if it's Nutro, you won't go wrong, that's for sure. I just can't say enough how pleased I am with Koda's skin problems since switching over to Nutro. You're right Jeff, the Omega 3's are a big topic here lately. I did buy fish oil capsules (I think the bottle says Salmon Oil if I am not mistaken) for Koda and he gets one a day. He loves them. Believe it or not, the boy chews them and chews them til he gets all of the liquid out, then he swallows what's left of capsule. Let me tell ya... there is just a huge difference in his shedding and itching. Beings as I was feeling better today, I sat Koda down and he got a thorough brushing this afternoon, since I hadn't even attempted to brush him the 4 or 5 days I was sick. Before I switched food, I was getting at least 3 brush fulls of loose fur out of him when I brushed him. Today, I didn't get near that amount of fur in the brush. And I spent a good half hour, 45 minutes brushing him out. So whatever I am doing, it's working, and I know switching to Nutro was a big factor in that.
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Postby kiwani » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:54 pm

Re: "The salmon and fish oil is what caught my eye, Omega-3 that has become so popular on this site lately."

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Just keep in mind, as mentioned earlier, that 'fish oils' easily lose potency when exposed to heat, light, air. The kind of processing in dog foods and their long shelf life, doesn't guarantee omega-3 potency. A pharmaceutical grade Omega-3 oil in sealed capsules would be a better choice.

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Postby Jeff&Peks » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:57 pm

Glad to hear you and Koda had a bonding moment of brushing and grooming, Pekoe and I had a bonding moment also, as I was trying to trim the hair on Pekoe's butt, Pekoe's teeth were doing a great job of bonding to my hands and arms. My hands are so bitten up lately from muzzles and grooming it looks like I have spent my life as a lumber jack. Everyone should be buying stock in the band-aid companies I have been buying alot of Band-Aids the past 2 months.
Last edited by Jeff&Peks on Sun Feb 19, 2006 10:49 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby Jeff&Peks » Sun Feb 19, 2006 7:58 pm

The food does have a shelf life posted on it, must be sold by what ever date.
I don't think Pekoe has ever had any type of fish or any of some of the other ingredients in the food so even if it loses some of its potency its still something but she is 10 and except for the cancer has never been to the vet for any illnesses only for shots and physicals, she just had a complete senior physical and except for the cancer on her tongue she is in perfect heath, blood, heart, kidneys and what ever else is in a Chows body. They really need to do an exorcisms on her but they never listen to me.

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Postby kingalls » Sun Feb 19, 2006 8:30 pm

Mr. N most likely has another ear infection. I have to see if the vet's office will take him in without a requiring sedation prior to his visit. In my other post regarding his ear infection, one response was that their vet recommended food without chicken but lamb to help with preventing ear infections. Would like to hear feedback on that recommendation of eliminating chicken from the diet in regards to ear infections...I do give them baked chicken thighs every morning with their can of Nutro.
Thanks! Karen

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Postby kiwani » Mon Feb 20, 2006 12:34 pm

Re: "In my other post regarding his ear infection, one response was that their vet recommended food without chicken but lamb to help with preventing ear infections. Would like to hear feedback on that..."

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I responded to that in the "What's Everyone Feeding" thread, since it was posted there as well.

I do recall you saying that your dogs weren't very much interested in their meals, and that you added chicken thighs every day. The Nutro that you're currently on has a lot of Omega-6's, and you added even more inflammatory 6's with the fresh chicken thighs. When you add up all the rice fragments in Nutro, (ground rice, rice flour, rice bran, rice gluten) you end up with a lot of denatured starch, which can end up being a hospitable environment for yeast overgrowths.

As already mentioned, "fish oils" are highly perishable, and listing them in kibble formulas gives you no guarantee of receiving potent Omega-3 for the price.

.

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Postby ngraham » Mon Feb 20, 2006 1:05 pm

Poor Jeff. I'll have to buy some stock in Band-Aid. LOL I have not tried to trim Koda's butt yet, but did take a look while I was brushing him yesterday, to see how long the hair was, and it really wasn't all that long. But as soon as he has done a little more healing, I'll try to trim, just to start getting him used to the process. I can still see stitches on both surgery sites, so I don't want to push the issue at this point. I guess I have been truly lucky with Koda. It was evident when I got him, he had no clue what a brush was for. The first couple of months of trying to groom him were not fun, believe me. He did not want to sit still, he fought me, he tried to chew on the brush, you name it, he did everything but sit there and let me brush him. In January tho, it seems like he finally decided that getting brushed wasn't such a bad deal... it felt good and we got extra play time together while brushing. Now the big moose lies on the floor in front of me and lets me brush away. When I am done with one side, I roll him over to the other. LOL Yesterday when I picked up the brush and told him, Come on Koda, let me brush you, he walked over and plopped himself on my lap and laid there. <rolling eyes> Jeff, you wouldn't want them to perform an exorcisim on Pekoe... then she'd loose all of that charm you have grown to love. :oops:
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Postby kingalls » Mon Feb 20, 2006 5:41 pm

Thanks, Kiwani but now I have dilemia...Shiloh LOVES chicken while Mr. N doesn't have a preference. In the last couple of days, they have not been eating their breakfast. This morning, it was mostly canned Nutro (duck/pasta) and it was barely touched. Looks like one of my options is to find a kibble that is salmon based (although you did mention it doesn't have the potency of a capsule with the Omega-3)...I will have to work on this diet thing. Funny thing..seems like we should just have these two pull up a chair at dinnertime - our diet is 95% fish and lot of veggies...
Karen

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Postby kiwani » Mon Feb 20, 2006 7:14 pm

The canned Nutro Duck/Pasta ingredient list that I found had duck listed at about 7th. Lamb broth was the main ingredient. This formula also contains salt, and the pasta is not a whole grain ingredient. The label makes it sound like you're paying for duck, but there isn't much *in* there.

Concerning the "fish oils" listed in the Nutro Holistic formula: how much is actually there, what kind of fish is it from, how potent can the mixed-in oil be if the fish oil is so highly perishable? It looks impressive listed on the label, but what are you really getting?

I don't think that any kind of processed meal is as potent as fresh foods. 'Dried egg product' can't be as good as a fresh egg.

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Re: Food again

Postby Victory » Tue Feb 21, 2006 9:52 am

Jeff&Peks wrote:Has anyone tried the Nutro Ultra Holistic food? The Nutro Lady was at Pet-Smart today and had the bag on the table, I have never seen it before so I bought a bag, It has Salmon, Chicken, Lamb, sunflower oil, Flaxseed, Whole brown rice, Fish oil, Cranberry powder, kelp, oatmeal, garlic, alfalfa, tomato pomace and poultry fat, all supposedly Holistic. Pekoe seem to like it, she ate it as soon as I put it down. The salmon and fish oil is what caught my eye, Omega-3 that has become so popular on this site lately.


A co-worker has cairn terrier that is more spoiled than our chows, (hopefully this woman will calm down before having a human child) anyway they were trying to find a food she'd eat and bought some of the Nutro Ultra, their dog didn't like it, so she gave it to me, (better than returning it to Petsmart), Darkwind and Firesong loved it, but it was a little rich for them. I think we'll stick to the nutro natural or california natural. and add omega-3 and vitamin's as usual.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
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Postby Jeff&Peks » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:12 pm

I should just stick with the lamb and rice, that's what she has been eating sense I have had her.

Victory, Are you giving the vitamins with the Nutro or just with your home cooked Chow Food ? and what's the list of vitamins, where are you getting the vitamins and omega-3 and how did you know the Ultra was to rich?. I have ask vets a few times about adding vitamins and was always told with the higher grade foods its not necessary.

I have been hearing use a more human quality food, to me that means McDonalds and Church's Chicken. Pekoe would have no problem eating a double quarter pounder with cheese and a bag of fries. She would be in heavan if I gave her a 4 piece chicken dinner with fries and a roll.

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Postby kingalls » Tue Feb 21, 2006 1:32 pm

:biggergrin: Jeff - you have a great way putting things...I've been trying to read up on the Ultra Nutro Holistic, omega-3's, etc....my husband is suggesting that we get ground lamb (@ $5-6 a lb)versus the chicken thighs...I just talked to Mr. N's vet - they don't want to see him just yet :lol: and have prescribed some ear medication...if that doesn't help in a week, then I bring him in after some giving him some ace and myself & my husband come in for "animal control"...but besides the meds for now, I want to increase the Omega-3 but still not certain how to administer it outside of trying to change their food (Ultra Nutro)...I'm sure Shiloh will gulp it down with a bit of chicken but Mr. analyzes every morsel and is a slow eater even with canned food.
Can you imagine how healthy everyone would be if we took this much effort in feeding our human kids?

:wink:

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Postby kiwani » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:11 pm

Re: "my husband is suggesting that we get ground lamb (@ $5-6 a lb)versus the chicken thighs..."

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You'll find that ground lamb has a lot of saturated fat (inflammatory)

If you boil the ground lamb, you'll see a heavy layer of fat rise to the top, and it congeals to a waxy semi-solid goop at room temperature.

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Postby kiwani » Tue Feb 21, 2006 2:28 pm

Re: "I want to increase the Omega-3 but still not certain how to administer it outside of trying to change their food (Ultra Nutro)"

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Anywhere you'd find vitamins or supplements would carry Omega-3 fish oils in vacuum sealed softgel capsules, from pharmaceutical grade to pet supply brand varieties. Or add to the diet fish varieties high in omega-3, like canned salmon (no salt brands), mackeral(no salt brands), etc.

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Postby ngraham » Tue Feb 21, 2006 4:28 pm

Karen,
When I was working on a regime for Koda to work on his food allergy and also make sure he was getting the B-complex and Omega 3's, I decided on the fish oil capsules as opposed to trying to cook fish for him. I had already gotten him pretty well switched over to the Nutro, he liked it and I didn't want to upset his system anymore than I had by switching him over to the Nutro from the Purina One and also adding a bowl of brown rice with a scrambled egg a couple of times a week for breakfast. I got Koda's fish oil capsules (they look like big vitamin E capsules) at Wal-Mart. Really, they are Salmon Oil capsules. Koda just eats them. LOL I use his B-complex and Salmon Oil capsules as treats for him now. I hid them in cheese one time, he ate the cheese, then ate the B-complex and fish oil capsule. No fooling him. LOL So now I just ask him if he wants his vitamins and he's right there wagging his tail. LOL He chews on the fish oil capsule til it's gone. Never drops a bit of liquid on the floor. LOL
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Postby kingalls » Sun Feb 26, 2006 8:59 pm

Well, I went to GNC this past Friday. I picked up a Flaxseed Meal powderish type of supplement for Omega-3. In the process, I also picked up a good multi-vitamin for myself and one for my husband. So I mixed the powder into their food - 1st with one tblsp and then with alittle more...I will be adding more to accomodate both of them...just need to make sure they are okay with this supplement. So far so good! :D Once I am able to increase the amount that is good for both, I will look into adding the other stuff like B-complex.
Anythihg else besides the Omega-3 and B-complex?
Thanks,
Karen

PS - I've never taken multi-vitamins before as I thought I have a pretty decent diet but now I'm trying to discipline myself at the same time as giving my Chows the nutrition they should have...

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Postby kiwani » Mon Feb 27, 2006 6:10 pm

Re: "I picked up a Flaxseed Meal powderish type of supplement for Omega-3."

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Besides the information in the excerpt below, dogs can have a harder time doing the 'conversion' mentioned.


Excerpt:

"Marine(fish) Oil, is the best source of long chain Omega 3s, containing EPA & DHA. Long chain Omega 3 does not have to be converted by the body in order to be utilized. Flax seed (oil) is a short chain Omega 3 and needs to convert to long chain in order to be utilized. After conversion, it offers little or none of the EFAs required."

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Jeff

Postby Victory » Thu Mar 02, 2006 1:53 pm

[quote="Jeff&Peks"]I should just stick with the lamb and rice, that's what she has been eating sense I have had her.

Victory, Are you giving the vitamins with the Nutro or just with your home cooked Chow Food ? and what's the list of vitamins, where are you getting the vitamins and omega-3 and how did you know the Ultra was to rich?. I have ask vets a few times about adding vitamins and was always told with the higher grade foods its not necessary.quote]

All foods lose vitamin and mineral potency lying on the shelves, that's just the way it is. I give them Doctors Foster&Smith Vita-minTabs Plus, and Doctors Foster&Smith Vitacoat, with omega 3 and 6 fatty acids. I give them the weight appropriate amount once or twice a week, depending on how they look and feel. When they first came to live with me, they were both on the full dose per weight for two weeks and then I tapered off to every other day and then to once a week. Firesong is a very active dog, she's always playing and jumping, running, she needs the extras, whether its' with the homecooked stew or Nutra. The vitamins are very potent for very active dogs, nursing or pregnent dogs or dogs under a lot of stress, (like just finishing with cancer treatment)

And I know when they have eaten something that is a bit rich for them because they vomit bile. And that's the only time they do it.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer

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Postby kiwani » Fri Mar 03, 2006 8:54 am

Re: "The vitamins are very potent for very active dogs, nursing or pregnent dogs or dogs under a lot of stress, (like just finishing with cancer treatment)"

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The vitamins are very low potency. Be aware too that the B-complex aren't balanced, that synthetic vitamin k is considered toxic, and that vitamin D isn't recommended because it can build up in the body. Cancer dogs have their own special nutritional requirements.

.


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