Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

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Ellie
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Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Ellie » Mon Aug 17, 2009 9:24 pm

Hi everyone!

Well, Khan's 11 weeks now, and growing up fast! He's just over 9.5kg, and getting very mischievious :)

I've just finished most of the IAMS puppy dried food (kibble in America?) - I've since read that it's not really very good, but I bought it the day before he arrived home, and didn't have much of an option. He seemed to take to it OK, as it is apparently quite similar to the Advance that the breeder had him on, which is apparently also rubbish.

So, went to the pet store last weekend, and the only dried food they had without corn in it was the Eukanuba Naturally Wild North Atlantic Salmon. I got the large breed adult formula - the pet shop guy said that the kibble size in the puppy formula might make Khan gulp it down too fast and choke, but also grow too fast (?) So he recommended the adult version, but to augment it with puppy formula milk for the calcium, and extra fish oil if his coat looked like he needed it (plus the usual suspects - eggs, yogurt, sardines, cooked rice and veg, etc). Fair enough me thinks, and then comes home to find that it's not that great after all :cry:

Puppy likes it, although I have mixed it in with the remainder of his IAMS. However, it might be my imagination, but Khan seems to be biting/itching his legs and feet more....

I've been doing more research, both on here and on Google. Trouble is that brands recommended here (Solid Gold of all types, Blue Buffalo, Nature's Recipe, etc.) aren't available at all, and, although we have just got Nutro into Australia, the recipe is completely different! (http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=162828).

My head hurts trying to figure out what's best, and I'm scared of giving him the wrong food :( I was thinking I might post what I've seen is available here, and if anyone could give me any advice/recommendations, it'd be greatly appreciated! I'm not necessarily after what's the best option (*hears cans of worms opening*), only what is a good nutritious recommended option.I also live in a rural area (about 2000 people), so that makes things a little harder too.

At the local supermarket:
Purina Supercoat
Purina One
Purina Beneful
Optimum puppy formula (http://www.optimumpet.com.au/Optimum-Fo ... ry.aspx#ns)
Pedigree lines
Pal lines

At the pet store:
Eukanuba
IAMS
Advance
California Natural
Innova
Evo
Hills' Science Diet
Orijen

On-line:
Royal Canin
Eagle Pack
Artemis
Nutrience
Dick Van Patten - Natural Balance
Ziwi Peak (looks good [http://www.pookinuk.com.au/product-selected.asp?productID=603], but way beyond my budget - 5kg for US$100!!! Is that a normal budget for people on this forum?)
Purina Pro Plan
Dr. Bruce - Vets All Natural - A 'raw food' (http://www.pookinuk.com.au/product-sele ... noGoBack=1) Looks interesting, but probably too much grain??!

And that's about it!

Please help me! :D It's hard when you think you've done well, only to find out you haven't after all *sigh*
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Coco Chow » Mon Aug 17, 2009 11:36 pm

Oh I know so well how you feel. When Coco was a puppy, I changed food 1000 times! I wanted something healthy, but something that she would like to eat too, I've tried everything! Because I'm not in the US, the formulas sold here with the same names were different too, etc...
Anyway, Coco is an allergic chow and I finally give her a special diet so I'm affraid I cannot help much.
What I wanted to say was, choose a puppy large breed formula, it will make your chow grow slowly, I mean at a good growth rate to protect his joints, and do not give adults formulas as the protein rate is not correct for a puppy.
Try to avoid brands with corn, lots of fillers and by products, like Royal Canin.
Be careful that the first ingredient listed is an animal protein source. If your chow is itchy, you can try to avoid chicken because it can be inflammatory, choose a salmon formula instead, or maybe lamb, venison, etc...
Kiwani used to recommend Innova Large Breed puppy formula, which seems to be available to you. Why not give it a try?
Good luck!
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby kingalls » Tue Aug 18, 2009 7:44 am

I would suggest that you check out the subforum (Best of Nutrition, Diets, and Food)...so many of us have gone through food changes because of the hotspots.
Karen, Kohana, Takoda, and our Chow Angels Nahkohe and Shiloh

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby chowpups » Tue Aug 18, 2009 8:26 am

yeah, the hotspots are gone thank goodness, we switched to the bison/ocean fish formula of the solid gold wolfking. I think the puppy formula is solid gold wolf cub? Not sure .. Nikki is 2 and I give her the adult so Iam not sure about puppy.. Good luck but to me it does make a difference with the itching and their coat..
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby LEO's mum » Tue Aug 18, 2009 9:36 am

Ziwi Peak is great food if you could afford it. I have had samples and LEO loves them. We are in the US, so I fed SolidGold WolfCub as LEO's base kibbles, then WolfKing after turning one. Whichever brand you choose, go for LARGE BREED PUPPY FORMULA, to avoid too quick growth which can put pressure on joints & bones. If you cannot find the Large Breed Puppy Formula, just feed it Adult Food not the Puppy Formula, which would be better than having too much nutriton.

What you could do is to compare the ingredients at the back of the bag or on line. It is listed in order of weight or percentage. Go for things which has things that are not processed, things you could imagine as being food. You DO NOT want feeling a need for a chemistry degree readiing it. Go for Chicken rather than Chickenmeal, etc. Also, Avoid added animal fat.

Looking at your list Orijen, the Canadian Brand is in there. Also Artemis. I haven't looked at the ingredients list, but those would be on my list to check closely. Innova & Callifornia Natural are made by the same company. Check those, too, tho Innova Puppy seemed too much for a large breed. EVO is made by them as well, their grain free line. No need for a chow(a non active breed) to go grain free, if it hasn't got allergies, just my opinion.

I would stay clear of Purina, Eukanuba, IAMS, what one might call supermarket brands. Most of Hills Science diet have corn in it, I think....not great food unless the dog has medical conditions needing some prescription diet. Royal Canin isn't great, I seem to remember someone saying......

Never heard of Advance and Nutrience.

Sorry you must do more homework. But you have to be comfortable w/ what goes in your chows. :D

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby lightforce18 » Tue Aug 18, 2009 10:34 am

go with

California Natural
Innova
Evo
Orijen

from the pet store.

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Ellie » Tue Aug 18, 2009 3:34 pm

Thanks for the advice!

I did go and check out the subforum for Best of Nutrition, but it's so hard for a newbie! I mean, I think I have the best brands cemented into my head, go to the pet shop, and find that none of them are available! So, I remember that corn isn't great, buy the only corn-free kibble available, and find out it's not a good option at all *bangs head against wall* :)

I would go the Solid Gold brand (incl. Wolf Cub etc) but we can't get it in Oz. Nutro has a way different formula (beet pulp is the 3rd ingredient), so that's out too. I'm leaning towards Innova, but then some people are thinking it might be too rich?

Hmmm, what do people think of this?
Dr Bruce - Vets All Natural - Complete Mix
Natural food for dogs, cats, puppies, kittens.Vets All Natural-Complete Mix is manufactured in strict accordance with the principles of raw food. Great for digestion.

Ingredients are air dried at, or below, body temperature, to prevent any thermal damage to proteins, vitamins and enzymes.

This fabulous product, when mixed with the appropriate ration of raw meat (directions on packaging), forms a fully balanced, 100% preservative and additive free, completely natural raw food diet for dogs and cats.

The mix is designed to be reconstituted by soaking in an equal volume of water for 24 hours. Please ensure this you follow this step as it is important, not only for palatability and digestibility, but also to allow germination (activation) of the starch in the grains, increasing their digestibility, nutritional value, and bioavailability.

One kg of complete mix will combine to feed an average sized dog for 10 days, and a cat for up to 3 weeks.
Ingredients:
Complete mix contains a combination of mixed cereal grains (rolled oats, cracked barley, soybean meal, flax seed meal, and whole oats), dried vegetables and fruit, dried garlic, dried parsley, dried barley grass, calcium powder, brewers yeast powder, kelp granules, lecithin granules and vitamin C powder.

If you add this to raw meat, your dog's diet will include practically everything it needs for optimum health. Dogs and Cats are not designed or equipped to properly digest and absorb cooked food, as we humans are.

Just add a few bones (in line with Dr Ian Billinghurst's principles) and possibly a few supplements for special needs or specific life-stages.

3 Formulas for Dogs, plus a Cat formula

The range consists of 4 formulas:
Puppy,
Adult & Senior Dog,
Weight Loss for Dog,
Cat.
The variations are designed to meet the individual needs of dogs and cats at different life stages with regard to level of growth, energy, and nutrient requirements.


Oh, and kangaroo meat is widely and cheaply available here (of course :) ). I've done a forum search but there isn't a whole lot of info. I know that it's a very lean meat, which is good in some respects, but will it have enough fat on it for a puppy? I'm assuming a little fat is good for growing puppies? Maybe? @-) Are you sure about not having to be a chemist, LEO's mum? *lol*
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby LEO's mum » Tue Aug 18, 2009 4:16 pm

One of the important things is the Calcium & Phosphorus balance. Sorry to get a bit technical here.... Did the search for you,tho....

Passed discussion here input by Kiwani:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=13850&p=159603&hilit=Phosphorus+Calcium#p159603

Also here on a thread re Raw Diet:
viewtopic.php?f=19&t=12618&p=149000&hilit=Phosphorus+Calcium#p149000

When LEO was on Puppy formula 3~4 yrs ago(She'll be 4 come October), Innova only had one Puppy formula and tho she was on it for a while, I wouldn't recommend it. I reckon Large Breed Puppy formula is the way to go as Chows have high joint/bone problem(dysplasia) rate. or just go for the Adult Formula. My LEO has elbow dysplasia and was operated on both elbows by the time she was one and a bit.

Two things I promised myself to stick to if I were to have another Chow. 1) Feed it Large Breed Puppy Formula or Adult Formula looking at the Phosphorus/Calcium balance. 2) Wait to spay/neuter till fully grown so all the growth hormornes would have had the chance to work in a balanced way.

I have never looked into raw diet, the closest I get to that is to add pet grade mince from a trusted organic beef farm, so I cannot help you on that front, I'm afraid....

Take care,
Leonora & mum

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby leisa75 » Wed Sep 02, 2009 3:22 pm

I feed California Natural Lamb and Rice Dry kibble, and give them a scoop of canned with there meal. Canned is the same brand as the dry kibble. They love it, they have great coats, no skin problems.

Please stay away from Nutro products I used to feed the Nutro lamb and rice but they were always sick from it. And there are alot of consumer compaints about Nutro as well.
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Mia » Thu Sep 03, 2009 5:45 am

Orijen and Natural Balance are EXCELLENT foods.
I have done extensive research - of course by the time I was done, I was nothing but confused.
I used to feed Solid Gold HundenFlocken, but have changed to Natural Balance because it seems to have things in it that are more conducive to what a chow needs.
My guys have been on it for 6 months now and I think it's great.
I also add some real stuff every once in a while like yoghurt, hard boiled eggs, blueberries, cooked carrots and rice, etc.

Since each chow is different, start on what you think is good and within a month or two you will be able to see if their coats are shiney and healthy and the poops are not too runny or too hard.
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Sirchow » Thu Sep 03, 2009 6:28 am

I feed large breed puppy orijen and buy it online as the petshops here in Scotland just sell cr*p. I find it a little high in protein as Bramble will get very windy from it so I mix in a little Burns kibble to bring the protein down to about 30% which Bramble thinks is ideal and the reast of us tend to agree :lol: You need to be a bit inventive and have a clear idea of what you are trying to achieve. I think the US has an amazing range of good dog foods compared to the rest of the world.
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby ardeema » Thu Sep 10, 2009 1:21 am

What kind of diet pills are available from your doctor on prescription? I trying for a baby, I am at diet class, but would like a little bit of extra help if possible.

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Red Dragon » Tue Oct 20, 2009 8:16 pm

Ellie wrote:Hi everyone!

Well, Khan's 11 weeks now, and growing up fast! He's just over 9.5kg, and getting very mischievious :)

I've just finished most of the IAMS puppy dried food (kibble in America?) - I've since read that it's not really very good, but I bought it the day before he arrived home, and didn't have much of an option. He seemed to take to it OK, as it is apparently quite similar to the Advance that the breeder had him on, which is apparently also rubbish.

So, went to the pet store last weekend, and the only dried food they had without corn in it was the Eukanuba Naturally Wild North Atlantic Salmon. I got the large breed adult formula - the pet shop guy said that the kibble size in the puppy formula might make Khan gulp it down too fast and choke, but also grow too fast (?) So he recommended the adult version, but to augment it with puppy formula milk for the calcium, and extra fish oil if his coat looked like he needed it (plus the usual suspects - eggs, yogurt, sardines, cooked rice and veg, etc). Fair enough me thinks, and then comes home to find that it's not that great after all :cry:

Puppy likes it, although I have mixed it in with the remainder of his IAMS. However, it might be my imagination, but Khan seems to be biting/itching his legs and feet more....

I've been doing more research, both on here and on Google. Trouble is that brands recommended here (Solid Gold of all types, Blue Buffalo, Nature's Recipe, etc.) aren't available at all, and, although we have just got Nutro into Australia, the recipe is completely different! (http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=162828).

My head hurts trying to figure out what's best, and I'm scared of giving him the wrong food :( I was thinking I might post what I've seen is available here, and if anyone could give me any advice/recommendations, it'd be greatly appreciated! I'm not necessarily after what's the best option (*hears cans of worms opening*), only what is a good nutritious recommended option.I also live in a rural area (about 2000 people), so that makes things a little harder too.

At the local supermarket:
Purina Supercoat
Purina One
Purina Beneful
Optimum puppy formula (http://www.optimumpet.com.au/Optimum-Fo ... ry.aspx#ns)
Pedigree lines
Pal lines

At the pet store:
Eukanuba
IAMS
Advance
California Natural
Innova
Evo
Hills' Science Diet
Orijen

On-line:
Royal Canin
Eagle Pack
Artemis
Nutrience
Dick Van Patten - Natural Balance
Ziwi Peak (looks good [http://www.pookinuk.com.au/product-selected.asp?productID=603], but way beyond my budget - 5kg for US$100!!! Is that a normal budget for people on this forum?)
Purina Pro Plan
Dr. Bruce - Vets All Natural - A 'raw food' (http://www.pookinuk.com.au/product-sele ... noGoBack=1) Looks interesting, but probably too much grain??!

And that's about it!

Please help me! :D It's hard when you think you've done well, only to find out you haven't after all *sigh*


I think I would get the Royal Canin. I feed Purina ProPlan Selects, but I think your formulas are different there. I fed the regular ProPlan for years, but they changed it and went to the Shredded Blend, I saw problems almost immediately and took them off. They had so many complaints the brought back the regular Chicken, but I was feeding Lamb and they didn't bring it back. Forget all the high dollar designer foods, junk! And don't be supplimenting with a bunch of junk, a good food has all the nutrition the dog needs.
Sam

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby h0n33y » Fri Oct 23, 2009 6:57 pm

ROYAL CANIN ????

I heard bad things of that brand though....R U sure???
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Red Dragon » Fri Oct 23, 2009 7:13 pm

When you only have a few to select from, you take the best you can get. The ProPlan may be better, but I am not familiar with the european formulas.
Sam

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby h0n33y » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:03 pm

Red Dragon wrote:When you only have a few to select from, you take the best you can get. The ProPlan may be better, but I am not familiar with the european formulas.


If I'm not mistaken, you mentioned in different posting

u'd tried proplan-select, and Blackwood.
and Royal Canin is better than those two???

as the TS mentioned Pro-PLan....and U suggest ROYAL CANIN ?????
maybe all u r saying is the ordinary proplan (not the select line) is not as good as ROYAL CANIN???
Last edited by h0n33y on Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:15 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby h0n33y » Fri Oct 23, 2009 9:07 pm

aaahh just to remind, maybe u missed out reading......the TS mentioned EVO, INNOVA, and also Ziwi (expensive) and ORIJEN.....

and ROYAL CANIN beats all of em??? R U SURE???
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Coco Chow » Sat Oct 24, 2009 12:42 am

As I said earlier in this topic, Royal Canin is not a good food. When Coco was eating it, she made poops 3 times bigger than now, just to give you an idea of all the crappy useless feelers they make their food with!
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby h0n33y » Sat Oct 24, 2009 7:33 am

THAT IS WHY I'M CONFUSED, CHOOSING ROYAL CANIN OVER ORIJEN, EVO AND INNOVA??? THAT DOESN'T SOUND JUST RIGHT AFTER READING SEVERAL POSTINGS IN HERE

LEMME SUMMARIZE WHAT I'VE LEARNED FROM THE POSTINGS IN THIS FORUM

BUY EVO OR INNOVA.....CHOOSE ONE THAT MIGHT SUIT UR DOG BEST, OPEN THE OFFICIAL WEBSITE 1ST TO GET MORE ADVANCE INFORMATION REGRADING THE TYPES AND INGREDIENTS

CHEERS
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Red Dragon » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:01 am

Coco Chow wrote:As I said earlier in this topic, Royal Canin is not a good food. When Coco was eating it, she made poops 3 times bigger than now, just to give you an idea of all the crappy useless feelers they make their food with!


If all you are worried about is larger poop, you don't have much to worry about. I know plenty of Chows eating Royal Canin and they do well on it.
Sam

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Red Dragon » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:02 am

h0n33y wrote:aaahh just to remind, maybe u missed out reading......the TS mentioned EVO, INNOVA, and also Ziwi (expensive) and ORIJEN.....

and ROYAL CANIN beats all of em??? R U SURE???


I would feed Royal Canin over any of those foods.
Sam

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Red Dragon » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:27 am

h0n33y wrote:
Red Dragon wrote:When you only have a few to select from, you take the best you can get. The ProPlan may be better, but I am not familiar with the european formulas.


If I'm not mistaken, you mentioned in different posting

u'd tried proplan-select, and Blackwood.
and Royal Canin is better than those two???

as the TS mentioned Pro-PLan....and U suggest ROYAL CANIN ?????
maybe all u r saying is the ordinary proplan (not the select line) is not as good as ROYAL CANIN???


No, I don't think Royal Canin is better than ProPlan Selects. I do think that Blackwood is a good food and almost as good as the Selects.

What I mean is I don't know about the European ProPlan, I have never fed it, or know of anyone who has. I do know of people who have fed the Royal Canin with good success. Is this person looking for food not in Europe?
Sam

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Red Dragon » Sat Oct 24, 2009 9:43 am

I looked at the Australian Purina products and the ProPlan Lamb and Rice appears to be our old formula, and that will work well with a Chow. The Supercoat formulas are made in Australia and we have nothing like that here. The Supercoat Sensitive product has a good protein and fat content and may work for you if you are having skin and coat problems. The Large and Giant breed formula is lacking in protein and fat amount for a normal Chow.
Sam

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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby h0n33y » Sat Oct 24, 2009 4:40 pm

wow I never thought the formula will be different in each country, I thought its standardized........


COAT FORMULA??? there is a specified DF for supercoat (literally mentioned on the DF packing) ??
will look again at the official website

btw, 2 big CHOW show players used Royal Canin to their dogs, and their dog looks amazing.......
I'm in doubt now, is Royal Canin might be OK for several dogs, as many chows for show (contest) use that brand....

but then again, is it safe at the long run?? if it makes my dog beautiful for just 5-8 years and leave her miserable at her senior years, that is not a good food, that is SLOW food poisoning....
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Re: Dried food advice please (my head hurts!)

Postby Red Dragon » Sat Oct 24, 2009 5:44 pm

h0n33y wrote:wow I never thought the formula will be different in each country, I thought its standardized........


COAT FORMULA??? there is a specified DF for supercoat (literally mentioned on the DF packing) ??
will look again at the official website

btw, 2 big CHOW show players used Royal Canin to their dogs, and their dog looks amazing.......
I'm in doubt now, is Royal Canin might be OK for several dogs, as many chows for show (contest) use that brand....

but then again, is it safe at the long run?? if it makes my dog beautiful for just 5-8 years and leave her miserable at her senior years, that is not a good food, that is SLOW food poisoning....


Sick dogs on bad food don't have nice skin and coat, maybe you should pay attention to what the show breeders feed? Like I said, I know of quiet a few Chows on Royal Canin and they do well, they just happen to be show dogs. :D Depending on how big your Chow is, the Medium size adult food appears to be the correct choice.
Sam

Keeper of the furry things...Master of the kibble....Scooper of the poo!


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