Raw Diet

[kaihauashley]

Anyone here feed your Chows with a raw diet? I've just started rawfeeding my 8-month-old puppy and is looking forward to see all the benefits for my Chow that I've read about!

[CoraP.]

I don't feed a raw diet, but am very interested in it . I think it sounds like the best way to go. I'll be interested to hear how you feel about it as your little one grows!

[kaihauashley]

Currently, my puppy has some skin problem. He is always scratching and there are some dark patches with small scabs on his body. I'd like to see how his raw diet will help in his skin condition. Will update here!

[Jeff&Peks]

Have you ever looked up the possible side effects and dangers of the raw diet? I read up on it and it sounds like another canine myth that somebady came up with thinking the wolfs ate raw so why not dogs.

[kingalls]

I'm still researching on the raw diet for my two. My biggest concern was to make sure that they are getting all of the nutrients needed. There are a couple of local raw diet companies that I'm checking out. My two don't have any issues physical issues that I'm trying to resolve with a change in diet - I'm just looking at alternatives. The raw bone thing makes me hesitant - mostly because Nahkohe is dominant and is "not nice" with Shiloh when it comes to "who's raw bone" is it.
The one and only time I saw them "getting into it" was over a raw bone.
Has your puppy been on the raw diet all along or are you just now changing because of the skin issues? There are members here that do the raw food, raw meaty bones diet with great success.

[kaihauashley]

I have and am still doing research on rawfeeding. My reason for switching is that I am convinced so far that a raw diet will give my dog optimum health. There is so much benefit to raw feeding and I really want to see if my dog can thrive on it, which I believe he can.

They are many myths on the "cons" of rawfeeding and they have been dispelt by scientific research. I would really like to know if anyone switched from raw to kibbles / homecooked food and their reasons for doing so.

[Layla]

I raw feed most of the time. I looked into it carefully before making the switch & am happy that it's both safe & optimal for M&A. I've never had any issues since swapping, they have bones most days, raw meat or fish from the butcher & do excellently on it. I do keep them on some Kiwi Peak or Addiction so that their pet sitter has no issues when I'm away. They love both of those foods as well & they are excellent.

[Merlin]

We are long time feeders of Raw regime.
My own chows including all rescues are prey model fed here.
There is no comparison at all to the wellness these dogs achieve through a raw regime.
We watch them get healthy, even the ones who have tremendous health issues, literally overnight.

Here is a typical 10 day cycle of poor skin and health to wellness.


The effects of a species appropriate diet is truly unparalleled.
Cheers
MM

[kiwani]

I've just started rawfeeding my 8-month-old puppy and is looking forward to see all the benefits for my Chow that I've read about!

Keep in mind that a pup's body doesn't have the same ability to regulate calcium absorption as a more mature one does. That's why overall calcium percentages are important when feeding large breed pups, because excess contributes to joint and long bone problems in a developing pup.

[Merlin]

If the meat to bone ratio is appropriate, there aren't any problems.
The problems tend to occur when the diet is mis-applied.

If your dog caught a squirrel today your dog would have 10% bone, 10% offal (organs/sinuews, fur , etc.) and 80% meat.
Your dog would only have access to two kidneys, one liver and one heart.

If your dog caught a deer tomorrow your dog would have 10% bone, 10% offal (organs/sinuews, fur , etc.) and 80% meat.
Your dog would only have access to two kidneys, one liver and one heart.

and on the 3rd day, if your dog was lucky enough to bring down an elephant, your dog would have 10% bone, 10% offal (organs/sinuews, fur , etc.) and 80% meat.
Your dog would only have access to two kidneys, one liver and one heart.

Entry level raw feeders have to start thinking in those terms to help themselves be successful with a raw regime. I can't stress enough that raw feeding is not about chicken necks and hamburger meat. An appropriate raw regime means offering your chow a variety of fresh meaty bone.

If you have a young puppy, I'd really like to encourage you to hook up with rawpuppy egroup on yahoo. Puppies do have more needs than adults do, so you will want to be aware of these varying caveats. I'm going to join myself because we are acquiring a new puppy shortly and I want to ensure the puppy's nutritional needs are completely met. This will be the first time we have had a puppy here.. (well one this young).

Cheers
MM

[Jeff&Peks]

I gave Pekoe a raw buffalo bone once from the raw food pet store across the street from me, I spent the night sitting in emergency then another five hours sitting at pekoes vet when they opened, that was the last any kind of meat bone pekoe ever got. When I told emergency the symptoms they thought she had bloat so I had to rush her in she didn't have bloat but she was severely dehydrated and extremely sick, Bloat or not they said it was a good thing I got her in when I did, you have a very sick Chow here. Raw or cooked no more meat for Pekoe

[kingalls]

A raw regime doesn't mean just giving bones. Like I mentioned, I've done some researching and just now starting to give my two a raw diet. I haven't begun giving them meaty bones yet. So far they do like the green tripe. I'm going to try giving them the calf ribs which is suppose to be softer and can be consumed easier/faster than the bigger raw bones. I want to make sure they are getting all of the nutrition needed with this new raw regime. Not everyone will want to do a raw regime. Anyone that does want to try it, should research it thoroughly and discuss it with others who have been doing the raw regime. I agree that the needs for a puppy and an adult are different with what ever diet a person gives their dog.

[Jeff&Peks]

12 hours at the vets, Close to death and $1500 later is the only research I need.

The biggest problem I found with feeding Nutro is you can't join in on the conversations about, UTI's, Allergies, Digestive problems, stones, skin problems, Knawing, itching, Coat falling out, not eating and weekly Vet visits. Its taken me 11 years to figure out what UTI meant.

[Layla]

The biggest problem I found with feeding Nutro is you can't join in on the conversations about, UTI's, Allergies, Digestive problems, stones, skin problems, Knawing, itching, Coat falling out, not eating and weekly Vet visits. Its taken me 11 years to figure out what UTI meant.

I've not had any health issues since feeding raw. Infact, Millie went from almost continuous UTI issues & thyroid issues to being well & full of herself. Works for me

[kingalls]

I gave Pekoe a raw buffalo bone once from the raw food pet store across the street from me, I spent the night sitting in emergency then another five hours sitting at pekoes vet when they opened, that was the last any kind of meat bone pekoe ever got. When I told emergency the symptoms they thought she had bloat so I had to rush her in she didn't have bloat but she was severely dehydrated and extremely sick, Bloat or not they said it was a good thing I got her in when I did, you have a very sick Chow here. Raw or cooked no more meat for Pekoe

I doubt that the one raw bone was the problem. A raw bone doesn't equate to dehyration. I'm giving my two, Happy Dog food which calls for a 2:1 ratio of water & food - so no dehydration here. The green tripe has it's own moisture content in addition to all the natural nutrients.
As I mentioned previously, do your own research about doing a raw diet....a raw diet doesn't just mean giving them a raw bone - there is alot more to a raw regime and that includes you as the Chow parent doing enough research to know what you are doing - and not just giving your Chow a raw bone.
Myself, Layla, Merlin, and whoever else is doing a raw diet aren't doing it without having done research. A raw regime is not for all - we all choose to feed our Chowlings as we think is best. If a Chow parent or pet parent thinks that Pedigree is the best thing since sliced bread - well, not much we can say to change that, is there?
I started with the grocery store brand with Shiloh (doh!) and moved on to Nutro, then Solid Gold, then Royal Canin (because of UTI's), then Wellness, now raw food (Happy Dog Food and Green Tripe)...so, I am always looking for alternatives for a healthier diet for my Chowlings. It's realy GREAT that Pekoe's only major health issue has been cancer and that she's been able to overcome that issue. As we all know there are some consistent issues that afflict our Chows - and perhaps diet plays a huge factor - so I do look to making those kind of diet changes that might make a difference. I rather make diet changes now than having to put them through medical/therapy regimes later.

[Jeff&Peks]

Not to turn this into anther food war but if you recall in your own words you weren't having any problems with Nutro you changed just to give them something differant to eat then after the changes you started having UTI's and other problems. It doesn't matter if its Raw, Nutro, sold gold, Purina or wal-mart specials Chows/dogs aren't humans you can't be changing food every month their system can't take it, Actually if you really want to do reasech its the dogs that get left over table scraps thrown out the door that live the longest and never have health issues thats because thats all they have ever been fed their system is use to it. Its the same people that post they are changing diets every month in the nutrition section that are posting with problems in the health section every week.

The only reason the raw diet was created is because some guy wrote a book saying wolfs lived off raw so it must be good for dog , its make since but he didn't add that wolfs were also eating vegetation and fruits to make up for the lack of nutrients raw meat doesn't offer also The raw diet of ten years ago may have been fine but the meat you are getting now is most likely imported from China or the by products of US farms that can't be sold for human consumption.

Merlin does feed raw but thats all she ever feeds from birth to death her Chows are use to the raw diet, try taking one of the Chows off of the raw diet and put him on Kibble, that Chow will be at the Vet within a week sick as hell.

[kingalls]

No, I don't want to change this into a food war thread...yes, I have changed foods to Nutro (per your posts regarding diet), to Solid Gold, to Wellness, to (now) raw diet. I don't make a stand that one is better than the other. Shiloh's UTI problems were not from Nutro, Solid Gold, or Wellness - it was (IMO) from the other stuff we were giving her and Nahkohe.
A raw diet has it's particular challenges - like making sure all the requirements for the proper nutrients are met. I think that we just all make a knowledgeable effort in providing a good diet for our Chow - i.e., no wheat or corn fillers, etc., then we are doing right by our Chowdren.
Jeff, I just want to encourage everyone to look at all the diet options. So far, I feel very fortunate that my two have not had any major issues. I made mistakes from the beginning. You and the other cc.org members cautioned me right away when I thought that giving Shiloh only baked chicken was the best thing I could be doing. I just don't want people to think that Pekoe's experience with the raw buffalo bone should be the end of any thought to a raw diet option. Changing to a raw diet requires alot of consideration - it's not as easy as changing from one canned food to another. The new regime actually requires more maintenance (food prep and handling) on my part so it's definitely something for everyone to consider before switching. Nutro, Solid Gold, and Wellness are all in the finer/upper grade foods we can provide. As you have noted in other posts, people also need to look at any other "treats" that make up their Chow's overall diet menu.

[Red Dragon]

There is always one key factor that everyone seems to forget when talking about raw diet and wolves, the wolves usually live less than half the life span of your typical canine. Been there and done that with the raw diet, got the sick dog and the T-shirt. What I keep trying to figure out too, how do you afford to feed them all this meat and high dollar dog food? Most people are struggling to just feed themselves and family a diet of quality meat these days. I would also like to add that MOST people that feed raw diet just dive in head first without understanding what they are doing, and they have all sorts of problems they don't realize they just created for themselves.

[kingalls]

It would be helpful if you could be more specific about what happened that made your dog sick on the raw diet. Researching the raw diet, doesn't mean just reading what one finds to support the raw diet. I've done some online research and have asked questions of others that are doing the raw diet before trying this - so I don't think I am doing this blindly. It may turn out that the raw regime doesn't work out for my two...maybe it might be part and not all of their diet.
http://www.workingdogs.com/vcbarf.htm
Currently, it costs me about $1.89 for one can of Wellness Beef...for the Lamb, it's about $2.13 per can. The green tripe is $1.85 for a one lbs roll - it's actually less money for the tripe (if I buy the 5 lbs roll, it will be even less)...but the Happy Dog food which I mix with it is about $15 per 2 lbs bag. I only use 1 cup of it per day.
Rather than just saying the "been there, done that" - why not share your exact experience so that others can decide on whether or not they would want to try it? A typical domestic canine living the life of a wolf would not last as long either. A typical canine is fed more frequently, is vaccinated, has a family, etc. I'm not trying to give my two a wolf diet - i.e., throw a deer carcass out in the backyard and having them have a go at it for the next week or so.
My parents gave their dogs table scraps, Alpo, never took them to the vet and their dogs lived a long life but I'm not going to do that. I want to do right for my two and I will try to improve their diet. It might end up being a raw regime or it might end up being otherwise.

[Red Dragon]

Well, how about severe intestinal upset, saying diarhea would be putting it mildly! How about skin irritation and hot spots. Also a nasty bout with a UTI. Not to mention pulling a lodged chicken wing out of one of their throats when they tried to inhale it. If all of that isn't enough, I saw a much better coat quality when they were just fed a quality kibble.

I have to keep my food expenses around a dollar a day per dog, which equates to about $250 in dog food to feed my gang. This can be done with a quality kibble and the dogs are perfectly healthy and happy, I don't see the point in going the extra mile when there is no benefit, or worse, you may end up causing problems.

[kingalls]

Nahkohe had hot spots and ear infections when feeding Nutro. Shiloh had UTI's when on Nutro and Wellness. Their demise was most likely the treats we were giving them and not the Nutro or Wellness. I'm still on the fence about the raw bones - especially the chicken bones. I haven't done it yet and I'm not sure if I will try it because I'm just too scared to chance it. I'm still giving them the Wellness kibble. I don't envision giving them a 100% raw diet.
Anyway, all of us sharing our expeiences will help anyone interested in providing a decent diet to their Chowlings.

[Red Dragon]

Nahkohe had hot spots and ear infections when feeding Nutro. Shiloh had UTI's when on Nutro and Wellness. Their demise was most likely the treats we were giving them and not the Nutro or Wellness. I'm still on the fence about the raw bones - especially the chicken bones. I haven't done it yet and I'm not sure if I will try it because I'm just too scared to chance it. I'm still giving them the Wellness kibble. I don't envision giving them a 100% raw diet.
Anyway, all of us sharing our expeiences will help anyone interested in providing a decent diet to their Chowlings.

"I don't envision giving them a 100% raw diet."

That is going to be your first big mistake, raw food and kibble digest at a completely different rate, you are going to have digestion problems, which will in turn lead to skin problems.

Don't be so sure that all those problems didn't come from the Nutro, other members abandoned that food and saw all those health issues go away. Treats can certainly cause a problem though, especially the grocery store and Walmart types.

[Jeff&Peks]

Red Dragon Whats your excuse you don't feed Nutro only top qulity Purina.

"I had three bitches get UTI's. There is no other explaination for it, so I will be changing foods""

I should take Pekoe off of Nutro so I can join in on the UTI fun.

[Red Dragon]

Here is the link for those that can read, so Jeff doesn't confuse the facts. http://forum.chowchow.org/viewtopic.php?f=19&t=11690

[Jeff&Peks]

Urinary Tract Infection in Dogs: What it is and why it happens

Statistics show that around 14% of the entire dog population in the whole world is bound to acquire urinary tract infection. This is how common this health problem is. It is a major concern for your pet as there's always a 10% chance that the health issues that your dog is currently facing is related to UTI.

Urinary tract infections arise when bacteria start to overcome your dog's immune system. The bacteria would infiltrate the dog's body through the food they eat and the water they drink.The bacteria present in contaminated foods are transmitted through the lymphatic system and the blood. This is the reason why there were traces of escherichia coli in the dog's bladder. Such bacteria, if not flushed out, would cause further infections in the dog's urinary tract. However, escherichia coli is not the only type of bacteria that can cause UTI in dogs. Other bacteria such as esterococcus, coagulase positive straphylococcus, proteus mirabilis, klebsiella, and pseudomonas are also common culprits of UTI in dogs.

Urinary tract infections occur along the entire part where urine forms and excreted out of the body. It encompasses the kidneys, bladder, ureters, urethra, and prostate gland. But more than the food your dog ingests, UTI may also develop if the bacteria had gained entry into the dog's internal system via the external urinary orifices. This instance is called the ascending UTI.

Between male dogs and female dogs, female dogs are more likely to develop. This is because the length of a female dog's urethra is shorter compared to male dogs. As such, it is easier for bacteria to find their way up the dog's bladder, including other internal organs.

Taking care of your dog means you have to always look after its welfare. With UTI being one of the most common diseases of dogs, it is but important that you know what this disease is, how it happens, and what you should do if ever your dog is suffering from it.