aggression...don't know what to do
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aggression...don't know what to do
Hi everyone,
I'm new here, and I really need any advice you can give. My parents have a Chow/Golden female who is about 4 years old, and she has bit both my mother and my father. The most recent time my dad needed 12 stitches. They don't know what to do. They absolutely love her, but they have tried many different humane approaches to trying to get her to be less agressive. She is a great dog, but she is very unpredictable. This last time she was wagging her tail so my dad went to pat her and then she bit him. My parents are very concerned as they don't know when she will become aggressive. There just aren't any solid precursors to her aggressive behavior. Any suggestions? Thank you so much.
I'm new here, and I really need any advice you can give. My parents have a Chow/Golden female who is about 4 years old, and she has bit both my mother and my father. The most recent time my dad needed 12 stitches. They don't know what to do. They absolutely love her, but they have tried many different humane approaches to trying to get her to be less agressive. She is a great dog, but she is very unpredictable. This last time she was wagging her tail so my dad went to pat her and then she bit him. My parents are very concerned as they don't know when she will become aggressive. There just aren't any solid precursors to her aggressive behavior. Any suggestions? Thank you so much.
Re: "There just aren't any solid precursors to her aggressive behavior."
That's often a sign of a medical problem, such as chemical imbalance, where inhibitory chemistry is lacking. There is some research in the archives, concerning 'reflex seizures', where aggression can be triggered by scent, light, sound, motion, touch. It can actually feel painful to be touched during a 'reflex seizure'.
There are also some reference links to the various 'medical causes of aggression', in the archives, including the thyroid/aggression study, etc. Those might be a good place to start reviewing possible causes.
That's often a sign of a medical problem, such as chemical imbalance, where inhibitory chemistry is lacking. There is some research in the archives, concerning 'reflex seizures', where aggression can be triggered by scent, light, sound, motion, touch. It can actually feel painful to be touched during a 'reflex seizure'.
There are also some reference links to the various 'medical causes of aggression', in the archives, including the thyroid/aggression study, etc. Those might be a good place to start reviewing possible causes.
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Sojourner11
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- Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:05 am
- Location: Metro Atlanta GA
This sounds vaguely familiar....
But before I can try to help you I need to know a few things about your Chow mix. First off what is her name? How old was she when you got her? How was she raised? What do you feed her(not just a brand of food but include scraps, etc.)? Any abuse or physical corrective measures? How do you handle discipline? Exercise routine?
In the meantime.....some Chows and Chow mixes are best adored from afar. Any that she has bitten should not try to pet her for a while. Chows have poor peripheral vision and should be approached from the front. Having said that, you would be wise not to go to explore this as it just make matters worse.
Does she trust you? Whose dog is it exactly?
For now when she acts up, try giving her a time out. Just tell her to go into an empty room apart from everybody and let her chill out for a little while. Then when you come to get her make sure she is calm and mellow before she can come out. Set a time limit, like say 30 to 60 minutes maximum then let her out.
Chow mixes can be a spirited sort, and like all Chows need a strong, dominant alpha in the house to look to for a pack leader. If the absence of such a pack leader guess who assumes the role? Your Chow will be glad to take the role and tough to relinquish it once it has established itself as top dog.
Pictured below is one such case, and he turned out to be the best sidekick you could ask for, so there is hope.
But before I can try to help you I need to know a few things about your Chow mix. First off what is her name? How old was she when you got her? How was she raised? What do you feed her(not just a brand of food but include scraps, etc.)? Any abuse or physical corrective measures? How do you handle discipline? Exercise routine?
In the meantime.....some Chows and Chow mixes are best adored from afar. Any that she has bitten should not try to pet her for a while. Chows have poor peripheral vision and should be approached from the front. Having said that, you would be wise not to go to explore this as it just make matters worse.
Does she trust you? Whose dog is it exactly?
For now when she acts up, try giving her a time out. Just tell her to go into an empty room apart from everybody and let her chill out for a little while. Then when you come to get her make sure she is calm and mellow before she can come out. Set a time limit, like say 30 to 60 minutes maximum then let her out.
Chow mixes can be a spirited sort, and like all Chows need a strong, dominant alpha in the house to look to for a pack leader. If the absence of such a pack leader guess who assumes the role? Your Chow will be glad to take the role and tough to relinquish it once it has established itself as top dog.
Pictured below is one such case, and he turned out to be the best sidekick you could ask for, so there is hope.
Thanks for the immediate replies Kiwani and Sojourner. I'm in the process of looking into possible medical causes.
Sojourner,
Ginger is my parent's dog. I don't live with them, but this is such a problem for them that I thought I would try to get some advice. She was adopted as a puppy, maybe 12 weeks old, and my parents didn't know that she was part chow. The vet didn't tell them until she was at least a year that Ginger was a Golden/Chow mix. Ginger was very different even as a puppy. She would do different things like hide under the porch and dart out at people and then go and hide again. My parents are compelete dog people, and of all of the dogs we have had in our family through the years there has never been one that has had an problem with aggression. Ginger has always been treated in the most loving kind way. They have never even raised their voices to her.
Once the agression started they bought some books and started trying correct it by changing how she viewed them. They did things like making her sit and wait before she went out or was given food etc... It didn't accomplish anything. Then they decided to address her territorial side. Ginger growls if she is in the hallway with anyone else so they would call her out of the hallway before walking down it. Those are just a few examples. As for exercise, Ginger has a very large yard with an invisible fence. My dad plays ball etc.. with her every day. She is a seemingly healthy and happy dog. I'm not sure what brand of food she eats. I think it is Science Diet. My parents also cook chicken for her several nights a week, and she does eat some table food.
I hope I answered all of your questions. The problem may have started from day one. My parents didn't know they were raising a chow and they knew nothing about chows. Perhaps it is an alpha issue? They did try to correct this at one point, but maybe they didn't use the right techniques.
Your pup is beautiful. Thank you for the suggestions and for the hope.
Sojourner,
Ginger is my parent's dog. I don't live with them, but this is such a problem for them that I thought I would try to get some advice. She was adopted as a puppy, maybe 12 weeks old, and my parents didn't know that she was part chow. The vet didn't tell them until she was at least a year that Ginger was a Golden/Chow mix. Ginger was very different even as a puppy. She would do different things like hide under the porch and dart out at people and then go and hide again. My parents are compelete dog people, and of all of the dogs we have had in our family through the years there has never been one that has had an problem with aggression. Ginger has always been treated in the most loving kind way. They have never even raised their voices to her.
Once the agression started they bought some books and started trying correct it by changing how she viewed them. They did things like making her sit and wait before she went out or was given food etc... It didn't accomplish anything. Then they decided to address her territorial side. Ginger growls if she is in the hallway with anyone else so they would call her out of the hallway before walking down it. Those are just a few examples. As for exercise, Ginger has a very large yard with an invisible fence. My dad plays ball etc.. with her every day. She is a seemingly healthy and happy dog. I'm not sure what brand of food she eats. I think it is Science Diet. My parents also cook chicken for her several nights a week, and she does eat some table food.
I hope I answered all of your questions. The problem may have started from day one. My parents didn't know they were raising a chow and they knew nothing about chows. Perhaps it is an alpha issue? They did try to correct this at one point, but maybe they didn't use the right techniques.
Your pup is beautiful. Thank you for the suggestions and for the hope.
Re: "I'm not sure what brand of food she eats. I think it is Science Diet."
If it is Science Diet, the high fiber contributes to a loss of zinc, and zinc is one of the important building blocks for inhibitory chemistry and serotonin.
The lower quality proteins don't help the brain either.
Serotonin regulates aggression in the brain. Low levels are linked with rage seizures, reflex seizures, phobias, altered perceptions, obsessive or repetitive behaviors, etc. The biting attacks would tend to be numerous rapid bites. Blood sugar plunges are also linked with serotonin imbalances. The shock collar/electric fence might be a contributing factor in susceptible dogs. These are just a few possibilities to consider...
If it is Science Diet, the high fiber contributes to a loss of zinc, and zinc is one of the important building blocks for inhibitory chemistry and serotonin.
The lower quality proteins don't help the brain either.
Serotonin regulates aggression in the brain. Low levels are linked with rage seizures, reflex seizures, phobias, altered perceptions, obsessive or repetitive behaviors, etc. The biting attacks would tend to be numerous rapid bites. Blood sugar plunges are also linked with serotonin imbalances. The shock collar/electric fence might be a contributing factor in susceptible dogs. These are just a few possibilities to consider...
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Sojourner11
- Rank 2
- Posts: 775
- Joined: Thu Sep 21, 2006 6:05 am
- Location: Metro Atlanta GA
Kiwani...what kind of food should they be giving her? Aside from the high fiber/zinc point you made you think the high protein in the chicken could bring out the aggression? What about something like the SG Holistic or something along those lines?
Marshall, when given meat, would quickly turn into Shall-Mar, his evil, sadistic alter ego. My parents, well dad, would try to bribe him with food to try to get him to be his friend so he could pet and love on him but no matter how many times he got bit doing this... would give up on the notion that meat could be bringing this out. I tried to tell him but noooooooooo.....
Also, when he was a pup I gave him a tons of love but no real leadership and treated him as an individual. So when I had to make him do something he didn't want to do or something he didn't like here comes Shall-Mar, 40lbs of fur and fury.
Once I started to use passive dominance, time outs, and basically declared myself leader (in a sort of bloodless coup) and took control back all things fell into place. It was an amazing transformation almost overnight. I think he missed the mental battle of wills, but overall was a much happier dog having someone to look up to for leadership.
So have your folks learn to say no and mean it. Use the time outs and no more scraps. Try another brand of food, we have lots of threads about diet and nutrition here. Nutro, Innova, and Solid Gold I think come out as the top three that most feed here. Nothing from your vet or the grocery store though.
Keep us informed of your progress.....
Marshall, when given meat, would quickly turn into Shall-Mar, his evil, sadistic alter ego. My parents, well dad, would try to bribe him with food to try to get him to be his friend so he could pet and love on him but no matter how many times he got bit doing this... would give up on the notion that meat could be bringing this out. I tried to tell him but noooooooooo.....
Also, when he was a pup I gave him a tons of love but no real leadership and treated him as an individual. So when I had to make him do something he didn't want to do or something he didn't like here comes Shall-Mar, 40lbs of fur and fury.
Once I started to use passive dominance, time outs, and basically declared myself leader (in a sort of bloodless coup) and took control back all things fell into place. It was an amazing transformation almost overnight. I think he missed the mental battle of wills, but overall was a much happier dog having someone to look up to for leadership.
So have your folks learn to say no and mean it. Use the time outs and no more scraps. Try another brand of food, we have lots of threads about diet and nutrition here. Nutro, Innova, and Solid Gold I think come out as the top three that most feed here. Nothing from your vet or the grocery store though.
Keep us informed of your progress.....
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chowfrnd88
- Rank 3
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- Joined: Tue Mar 21, 2006 7:47 am
- Location: Maryland
Your parenst should seriously consider seeing a veterinary behaviorist. We're not qualified to give you appropriate advice on this at this point. A veterinary behaviorist will bets be able to give you an accurate assessment of what's going on and a safe way to handle it. They will be able to run medical tests on bloodwork etc. (to assess all the things kiwani mentioned) to help rule out a medical cause for the behavior if they feel the medical tests are needed. Also, they will be able to give you the best advice on hwo to proceed. If he has bitten twice, you need to be very careful about how your family proceeds so that things don't become worse (even if your family's intentions are the exact opposite), only a trained professional can help your family do that. Keep us posted!
This photo arrangement is the wonderful work of Sweetpea
As Kiwani said - check on the Dodds studies into thyroid problems. Ask your vet to do a full thyroid panel if you can.
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-B ... HYROID.HTM
http://www.itsfortheanimals.com/DODDS-B ... HYROID.HTM
Thank you Elodie!
The thyroid article is very interesting. I've known cats with thyroid problems, and I can't believe I didn't even think of that as a possibility. My parents have talked to a couple of regular behaviorists. Having Ginger see a veterinary behaviorist makes perfect sense. As a matter of fact I think there is one that just opened up a practice in our area. We are so caught up in the issue that we never even thought of that.
Re: "Kiwani...what kind of food should they be giving her? Aside from the high fiber/zinc point you made you think the high protein in the chicken could bring out the aggression?"
We don't really know what's going on with this dog, and aren't even sure of the brand she's eating. Science Diet was mentioned, and I offered one possible cause. I wouldn't consider chicken a few times a week to be a high protein diet, when added to SD's middlings.
We've discussed high protein in your recent EVO thread.
I wouldn't automatically put the blame totally on the Chow part of this dog either, since Goldens have higher incidents of rage seizures, due to recent over-breeding. The last bite attack occurred while the dog was wagging her tail. Tail wagging can also be a sign of stress, and any elevated stress can trigger a rage seizure in a susceptible dog.
The part of the brain which acts as a control hub for aggression is easily affected by toxins, meds, vaccinations, chemical additives, poor diet etc. We already know that Science Diet has toxic preservatives and poor quality ingredients, but we don't know the whole story of what else is going on.
We don't really know what's going on with this dog, and aren't even sure of the brand she's eating. Science Diet was mentioned, and I offered one possible cause. I wouldn't consider chicken a few times a week to be a high protein diet, when added to SD's middlings.
We've discussed high protein in your recent EVO thread.
I wouldn't automatically put the blame totally on the Chow part of this dog either, since Goldens have higher incidents of rage seizures, due to recent over-breeding. The last bite attack occurred while the dog was wagging her tail. Tail wagging can also be a sign of stress, and any elevated stress can trigger a rage seizure in a susceptible dog.
The part of the brain which acts as a control hub for aggression is easily affected by toxins, meds, vaccinations, chemical additives, poor diet etc. We already know that Science Diet has toxic preservatives and poor quality ingredients, but we don't know the whole story of what else is going on.