How to solve biting problem?

Training and behavior topics, guidelines, and tips for Chow Chows.

Moderator: chowadmin

Post Reply
p.siu@comcast.net
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:48 am
Location: Chicagoland, IL

How to solve biting problem?

Post by p.siu@comcast.net »

Hi Chow lovers,

My 1.5 yrs old male Chow - "Mo-mo", picked up the biting habits a few months ago. He would bite after giving a very short warning (growl).

The first incident was back in July, when he bit me and put 14 stitches
on my face (see my previous post - my chow won't let me groom him anymore). BTW, I have managed to start grooming him again, although
he would not sit still while doing it, i.e. Mo-mo would walk away after a few
brushes, then come back to my side again for another few.
The second time was a few weeks later when I tried removing his collar
after walking him. He put several deep puncher holes on my hand.
The third time was when I was petting him, he was very relexed then,
and I touched his feet. He put a few deep holes on my arm.
The the most recent time happened when I was trying to clam him down
when he was barking at the new house-cleaning lady. He never barked
at anyone visiting our house during our presence. He put a couple holes
on my hand.

Each time when Mo-mo bites, he would not let go and bite and bite again
trying to gain a better grip.

Also, Mo-mo is reasonably trained. He knew he was wrong (I think) after
he bit me, as he would comply to "sit-stay" and "down-stay" commands. He would lower his head and occasionally give me a glance or two, while I am telling him "no" and showing him what he had done to me.

However, everyone in the family is afraid of his unwanted biting, as Mo-mo
gives very little warning before he would attack.

We are considering the following options:
1. Put him to sleep
2. Put him up for adoption -- however he might bite someone else
3. Training?? But what kind of training would be effective? I have
discussed this issue with several trainers, but none would say the
training would work 100%, not even over 80%.

All suggestions and comments are welcome.

Patrick
User avatar
Shane
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:02 am
Location: The Bahamas
Contact:

Post by Shane »

Have you ever tried putting him in obedience classes. Also I heard that this "bitting problem" could have been caused by a previous incident that he felt was unpleasant.

I know that dogs go through the stage of puberty having hormonal changes in their behaviour. Krillan and Shadow never challenge my status in this "pack", however they have snapped at a few people who got to close. I am not sure what really started i, however they are no longer in this stage.

Bark at the new house cleaner, I would not find that as suprising seeing that chows don't really like strangers.

Ok try this, when you get to your dog stare him in the eyes do not break your contact. If he "breaks", looking away from you then he is showing sign of submissivesness. If he barks at you aggressively (don't get confuse with play bark) then he challenges you and then you need to get serious with him. Also other signs to look for, when you call him he comes head lowered and ears down towards you.

All dogs don't follow owners that they think as weak, you cannot be passive with them. Your posture must be erect your voice must be commanding (it may seem wrong however like the saying says the best love is hard love). If he attemps to snap or growl you use the command "NO", then he shouldd be reprimanded for bad behaviour. Confine him into a room for 5-10 mins. Afte he comes out of the room don't pamper him, only when he does something good.

Try not to allow children to pet him, and let them stay away from him or cross over him especially in clustered areas like a hall way.

Right now my fingers hurt from typing when i come back on i'll send more info.

Shane
p.siu@comcast.net
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 9
Joined: Mon Sep 12, 2005 7:48 am
Location: Chicagoland, IL

Post by p.siu@comcast.net »

Hi Shane,

Thanks for your suggestions.

When I mentioned training, it is obedience training. It is unfortunate
that even the police dog trainers would not guarantee any kind of
success in stopping Mo-mo from biting.

When he growls, I would tell Mo-mo 'No and to sit-stay and stare him
right at his eyes, until he lowered his head or started to look elsewhere,
then I would tell him to down-stay until he is relaxed.

His 1st bite started when I was starting to groom him (something
he used to love), He bit me when I used the raker brush barely
touch him. Now I could groom him with a slicker brush.

Anyway, the last 3 incidents happened when he was relaxed (at least
this is what I believe).

Patrick
User avatar
Shane
Rank 1
Rank 1
Posts: 271
Joined: Wed Mar 16, 2005 10:02 am
Location: The Bahamas
Contact:

Post by Shane »

You can only lower the incidents risk, it can not go away. Also try to socialize him some more. You said you keep him on the sit stay. Wel try send him to a room instead for 5 - 10mins.

I am sorry I can't assist you with more infor than this. I've never really went through a situation like this, so I realy only can offer you litte info. The info is that of a little experience and that what I read from books.

Shane
User avatar
kingalls
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 3513
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 9:09 pm
Location: Central California

Post by kingalls »

Patrick,
I hope you and Mo-Mo can work this out. Putting Mo-mo down should be the last resort. I don't have any experience with a biting Chow or dog but a dog or Chow biting the owner is a serious issue. You as the owner should command the utmost respect from your Chow.
I'm also not sure if obedience classes will solve Mo-mo's biting issue but it might give you some help in establishing yourself as Mo-mo's leader.
As for your family members, is there any indication that Mo-mo might bite others?
Adopting mo-mo out to someone that is willing to take on the challenge might be an option but I hope you are able to work things out with Mo-mo.
It just seems like "something" happened to make Mo-mo begin biting and that needs to be dealt with.

Karen
User avatar
Jeff&Peks
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 8386
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:29 am
Location: Los Angeles,, CA

Post by Jeff&Peks »

Putting Mo-Mo to sleep shouldn't be the last resort, it shouldn't be any resort nor even be on the list of things to do. In my opinion if the first thing a person thinks of is putting a Chow to sleep because they can't handle the situation should have never adopted a Chow in the first place. My Chow won't let me groom or comb her, she will also snap mostly because the comb or brush is pulling the hair which I'm sure is painful to them, like it would be to you if your hair were being pulled out, like your Chow she will let me take a few strokes with a comb turn and snap then walk away just like some of the other Chows in here. Most of the Chows in here really don't like their paws touched and if Mo-Mo were falling asleep or was asleep and you touched or grabbed his Paws it may have startled him creating the bite. My Chow hates to be touched by anyone except for myself or my wife and will growl and snap if anyone tries to touch her. If you really looked at the situation everytime Mo-Mo snapped or tried to bite I think you might find the reason for the reaction. My Chow has snapped at me many times through out the 7 years I have had her yet I always know why she snapped and the reason for it, I'm just quick enough to move and I know her well enough to know beforehand when she will snap. I trust her around kids, family members and who ever she comes in contact with because I have told everyone how they should be around her if someone gets bit then its their fault not Pekoes.

I know most in here are thinking a Chow should never snap at their owners no matter what, we should be able to take their food away while they are eating, we should be able to touch or grab them anyway we want, we should be able to walk up to them and touch, move or grab them while they are sound asleep, We are the masters. We don't like it when someone does that to us so why should a Chow.

I was just talking to the head of the LA animal cruelty division the other day and we got on the subject of Chows, as soon as I said Chow he turned around and said poor Chows the most misunderstood breed there is, you can't find a more lovable, loyal breed then a Chow, he just adopted two Chows from the shelter and brought them home to his Mom, nice to know the Chow has at least one friend at the LA shelters.
dannyoconnor430
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 75
Joined: Mon Jun 13, 2005 12:45 pm
Location: England

Biting Chows

Post by dannyoconnor430 »

First of all, I feel really sorry for your situation. Nobody on here would like to be in your position. I disagree with Jeff though. ANY dangerous animal, and I think that if the dog is biting on numerous occassions can be considered dangerous, should be considered for euthanisation. Jeff I feel that you have taken this the wrong way, like its all the poor owner has on his mind, he is just stating that this is AN option, not the only option. How would you like it if his dog did escape and bit somebody? They are here for advice not to be chastised. I have 2 impecably behaved Chows that would never bite anything without cause. I placed a lot of blame for these issues on bad breeding, a dog is a mix of 50% appearance and 50% well being. Now some (and I say the type that are in it to make money) dont even concentrate on appearance properly, so wont even consider the mental aspects of the dog. In a nut shell, I wouldnt know where to start, maybe get some blood tests done on your dog and make sure he is okay in all respects before making any decisions. But I thank you for even considering the very very difficult decision of Euthanisia to one that you love for the safety of not only yourself but for the sake of others. It is not one I would like to make....
User avatar
ngraham
Rank 3
Rank 3
Posts: 1308
Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2005 3:11 pm
Location: Illinois
Contact:

Post by ngraham »

Even tho I can understand why Jeff said what he did and my heart agrees. I can and do feel that putting Mo-Mo to sleep would have to be an alternative, altho a definite LAST resort. Chows do need strong owners, and I'm learning that even more so with Koda than I did with my first chow, Sasha. Koda is much more strong willed than Sasha ever was at this age. Sasha for the most part lived to please me, Koda is a different story. But when a chow will bite it's own master, then there is a definite problem. But before I'd put Mo-Mo to sleep, I would try everything else first. The first thing being obedience classes. It may or may not help Mo-Mo, but it will help you learn to be the true Master and how handle Mo-Mo the right way so as to lessen the possibility of biting. As far as adopting Mo-Mo to a different owner, to me that would be a next to the last resport. It isn't fair to a new owner to hand off your problem child to them and have them get bitten also. I do agree with Jeff that when we decide to adopt a chow, we should know that the road to peace with them isn't always a peaceful road and there will be times when we have to practice tough love. That's where being the master comes in at. We have to accept the good with the bad and do everything we possibly can to work on the bad. My best friend got her first chow (which is how I fell in love with the breed) and Cinnamon ended up being an agressive chow. I got Sasha from the same people that my friend had gotten Cinnamon from, only a different litter. I did things differently with Sasha and she was the total opposite of Cinnie, because Sasha knew she was the chow and I was the Master. Period, end of story. Cinnie ended up biting my friend's teenage daughter during play one evening. They didn't adopt her out or have her put to sleep, which is what their vet had wanted them to do, even before the biting incident. They worked with Cinnie and gained a different respect for her that she could possibly bite and watched for that during play time. Sasha herself also bit. But when she did bite it was warranted... she was protecting herself or her family. The first time she bit was when my ex-husband came to pick up our daughters for his weekend visitation. He started getting hateful with me and Sasha bit him on the foot. I know she sensed the tension. The second time she bit was after I'd had her spayed and took her into the vet's to get her stitches removed. The third time she tried to bite was when our home had caught fire upstairs and Sasha was on her leash outside. There I was at my next door neighbors crying, she couldn't get to me, and people she didn't know were running in and out of her home. She tried to bite the butt of one of the firemen. When we saw what was happening, my neighbor who she absolutely adored any other time, went to go get her and bring her to me, and she got aggressive with him. He ended up having to take up the entire lead and walk her over to me. Of course she was upset... her mommy was crying and people were going in and out of her home. The last time she snapped or attempted to bite was after my first grandchild was born. She was jealous. And when Tiffany got bigger, she tried to give Sasha a McDonald's french fry (which Sasha loved) and she snapped at Tiff. Sasha was scolded and removed from both Tiff and I for time out, and never, ever did it again. So we have to be aware that our chow babies can and will bite if given enough reason. We have to be master enough to work with them to overcome that. I know after Christmas, I am going to look into obedience classes for Koda and I. I want to know that I have done everything possible to make sure that Koda is a well behaved gentleman... because I did take on that responsibility of being his mommy.
Nancy and Tai

Image
User avatar
Jeff&Peks
Rank 4
Rank 4
Posts: 8386
Joined: Wed Mar 02, 2005 10:29 am
Location: Los Angeles,, CA

Post by Jeff&Peks »

I wasn't chastising him I was trying to point out that his Chow isn't much different then my Chow or some of the other Chows in here, Some of the Chows in here hate to be groomed, hate going to the vet, don't like being touched by strangers, don't like being approached by strangers, all these situations will provoke a bit or snap. His post said he was bitten while grooming we don't know how he was handling his Chow or if the Chow was being forced to sit there, he was bitten when he took off the collar, did he pull the Chows hair while taking it off, my Chow snapped at me once when I took her Collar off because I did accidentally pull her hair. Mo-Mo barked and bite when he was being calmed down when a stranger (the maid) was in the house.Then Mo-Mo bit when his paws were touched while relaxed or sleeping, Sorry but aggression to me is when a Chow actually goes out of its way to attack and bite someone, Mo-Mo isn't doing this, if he were aggressive that maid would be in the hospital.

We have had many heated discussions in this forum over the years when it comes to Euthanasia and the word aggression. I haven't yet to read or ever see a Chow that went out of its way to attack or bite anyone, all these so called aggressive Chows weren't acting any differently then alot of the Chows in here and there was always a reason for the bite, the biggest problem was the owner trying to turn the Chow into a lap dog, not saying that's what Mo-Mo's owner is trying to do but from what I read in the post Mo-Mo is not an aggressive Chow

I guess I would be called an extremist when it comes to a Chow but to me there is no excuse for putting a Chow to sleep (killing) and if a Chow does bite what did you do to create the situation, A Chow can do no wrong if it does what did you do?

You have brought a strong willed, independent thinking, stubborn Chow into the house, now learn what goes on in that mind and work with it, not kill it because you don't have the time. Not you as the poster but you as in anyone adopting a Chow.

I know people are going to wtrite in with what if and what if and how wrong I am but I will always be on the Chows side no matter what the situation.
Roger
Rank 0
Rank 0
Posts: 18
Joined: Mon Mar 28, 2005 5:54 pm

Post by Roger »

Hi... just a few thoughts that came to me while I was reading your post.....
-Have you had your Chow since he was a pup, or is he relatively new to your household? If he's been with you from the onset, then continue. If he's new to your home, a dynamic needs to be established, and behaviors will have to be unlearned.
-Did you move recently?
-Is he neutered?
-Is he primarily an indoor or outdoor dog? Has that recently changed?
-Have you taken him to a vet for a full checkup, including blood screening? There may very well be a medical precipitant to this behavior. I take it he is current with all his shots.
-Has the dynamic in your household changed recently? This is personal, and requires no answer, but if anything's changed negatively, your Chow will sense it, and can be adversely affected.
-Do you know his lineage? Could it be possible he was inbred? It's suggested that inbred dogs can have an aggressive temperament, as well as mental health and immune deficiency problems.
-Is ther something that's making him afraid?

Your boy is not comfortable in his present environment, whether it be health related or environmental, and -unfortunately- this is his way of acting out. I think you should make sure there is nothing wrong with him health-wise before you proceed. If there's no issue from that perspective, then try to ascertain what changed to trigger this behavior.
I'm sorry for what's happening with him, but killing the little guy is not an option. If you can't find a resolution to this, I agree that it's unwise to put yourself and your family at risk, and as sad as it may seem, there may be someone else out there who can provide a home which makes him feel more secure. Hopefully it won't come to that, though. Good luck!
User avatar
Auddymay
Moderator
Moderator
Posts: 7575
Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2005 3:49 am
Location: Muskegon, Michigan

Post by Auddymay »

I'm curious, was MoMo always of this temperment, but to a lesser degree? Or was he an even tempered Chow who suddenly changed over night?
If it's the latter, it may be medical. I agree that Chows are a misunderstood breed. I had a male boxer who was also a stereotype victim. I do believe there are a small number of dogs, of all breeds that suffer from personalities that are unfixable and untrainable. Sometimes the reason is organic and sometimes it's environment, but the end result is that they are unsalvagable. Let me repeat- it is a very, very small percentage of dogs that fall into this catagory. I am certainly not saying this includes MoMo. But there are dogs who sadly have no other recourse than euthanization.[/u]
Post Reply