Question about punishment for aggression

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Question about punishment for aggression

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Chi-Ching was laying on the floor when my nephew (7 months) pulled the fur on his neck, Chi-Ching reacted by growling and tried to nip him. We were right on it and seperated them both and I grabbed Chingy and rolled him over and said "NO" loudly until he looked away. Then I put him in his crate. Skylar(nephew) is fine.
We have a zero tolerance for aggression in my house, even in a situation like this. I know that they shouldn't have been together but we were literally sitting a foot away from both.
Anyway, do you think that this was an appropriate punishment for him? Do you think I was too hard on him? (Am I being over paranoid?)
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Taz
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Post by Taz »

Punish is never the answer.
You know he can associate it with something else??

For example, a dog plays with another dog, they run into a tree.
Then the dog gets scared of the other dog.
Why?
Because the dog associates the pain from running into the tree with the other dog.
Dogs lives in the second.

Another thing you can do with punish is to remove the dogs language..
Next time your Chow will just bite, instead of growl.
(Growl is a warning)
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Post by Maxwell »

i think you did fine. but i'm just going by personal experiance. she didn't hurt him. i have found that if you use a loud voice when you disapline they listen. someone else will know better.
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Post by arnis »

touchy question here.
you did right and wrong by many views... some will say that now Chi-Ching wont like lil children because he will relate the punishment with the child...
I read somewhere that to handle this situation that you reasure both parties everything is ok. pet and praise your dog while child is close... then seperate.
the idea is to get the dog to asociate the *good dog* and child together. I presonally havent tried this one.

if your chow wanted to bite the child, you would have had a bitten child..
You didnt hear any warnings? Kahn, when aproached by someone(something) he doenst like will start a low rumble, and it will get louder the closer the person gets, until its a full blown growl...

i have never been put in this position, and never want to be... I would just recomend keeping small children (not aware enough to know NOT to pull hair)
away from Chi-Ching. Or someone may get bit. i always believe it is better to be safe than sorry. 8) good luck.
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Post by Judy Fox »

I think that it was too soon to let and chowling and a baby so close together.

The baby would not have any idea of the fact that pulling the chowling's hair was going to hurt and the chowling was only acting naturally when he objected. :?

However, I think that indicating that you will not tolerate that behaviour is good but the situation should really never happened in the first place. :(

As has been said, you have to be 110% vigilant when small children and dogs of any age are together.

It is a very difficult thing to guage so my earnest advice would be - always supervise Chingy and children. Regarding babies, I honestly don't think babies and dogs mix, except in very exceptional circumstances i.e. an older, confident dog who is used to children and babies and is proven trustworthy.

When Milly Ching was a baby chowling and we were playing with her, she would attempt to bite and play rough with us, especially if we won a game of tug. This we would not tolerate and she would get a sharp "Aah! No! Milly" so I do applaud your zero tolerence rule. :)

So good luck and chin up. I am sure you are not getting paranoid. He looks so cute but you must never forget that there is a whole bundle of Chow in that baby body - complete with arrogance, disobedience, cheek, self-will etc. etc. but also, fun, love and character and attitude. :D

Just be careful in the future.

Purple kisses from MIlly and Mabel

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Post by Jeff&Peks »

I go through this same situation everyday 5 times a day, we have a 3 year old living with us now that is constantly bothering Pekoe when she is asleep or eating. Pekoe growls and snaps but doesn't bite.
The way I look at things is if someone pulled your hair while you were sleeping or took your dish away while you were eating eating you would be upset to. I don't consider this aggressiveness by your chow, I consider it aggressiveness by the child and the chow shouldn't have been punished.

You guys like us are going to have to protect the chow from the child, I know yours is alot younger but you will have to watch the child constantly and teach him as he gets older to be careful and not bother your chow at certain times.

Pekoe has settled down alot and has gotten more tolerant of the 3 year old but she wants her private time just like we all do. You have to give your Chow some time to get use to this loud little creture running around.

I know most will disagree with my opinion and say the chow was being aggressive but I disagree, if someone is bothering me it upsets me at times so your chow should have the same understanding.

Like I always say a Chow can do no wrong if it snaps or bites, what did you do to provoke it, I haven't seen a Chow yet go out of its way to bite someone.
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Post by kingalls »

Ugh..such a touchy subject but it is my opinion that babies and pets don't mix and when something happens, it is the pet that is punished even if it was the baby or toddler that started it....a Chowling, a puppy, a kitten, a hamster - I just wouldn't allow them to be near enough for any hair or tail pulling, etc. As a pet owner, I need to protect them. If anything happens, it's the pet that will get the short end of the stick.
I think it was good to tell Chi-Ching No - that type of thing should start early but I'm not sure about the crate thing. No matter who approaches our Chows, we tell them how to (if we think we would even want them to get that close) approach them.
You'll figure it out - we're here to help :)

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Zhuyos mom
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Re: Question about punishment for aggression

Post by Zhuyos mom »

ChowLover wrote:rolled him over and said "NO" loudly until he looked away. Then I put him in his crate...do you think that this was an appropriate punishment for him? Do you think I was too hard on him? (Am I being over paranoid?)
Be careful when your roll your chowling, especially if your roll him on his back at such a young age, you might hurt his spine or hurt a tail bone, or something. Also, you don't have to say "NO" loudly. It's more effective if you say "NO" in a softer and stern voice. Use stern inflection and look him in the eye. He does not have to look away from you. It's better if you two look at each other versus him looking away to get the message. Teaching Chi Ching to look away might foster a more timid, less confident and skiddish adult Chi Ching. It's not about shaming him on his action, it should be about teaching him that what occured is not acceptable. Also, instead of putting him in the crate, this would have been a good opportunity to start the "cradle" technique.
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Post by Taz »

The worst punish I see (Exept hitting) is when people roll their dog over and says Loudly NOO! to their dog..
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Post by Rogansmommy »

IMHO - 7 month old babies should not be climbing on dogs. Period. Chows USUALLY give one warning snap before they bite; that is why the child wasn't bitten. If you are foolish enought to go for a next time, I doubt you will be that lucky. That being said...

Chows can't be disciplined the way you would discipline another dog. If Rogan misbehaved, he was put in a down-stay and made to stay. Sort of like a time-out. If he was trying to be dominant, the down-stay would include one of us standing over him, not yelling, or saying anything to him, just standing. It reinforces the dominance thing. Hitting a chow, or yelling at it will not help the situation. You must always remain calm and even with a chow. It's the regal attitude thing.
Michele

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Post by Judy Fox »

Hellow, me again.

As the others have said - it is not a good idea to hit or shout at a chow. They are very easy to upset. :(

Can I refer you to my posting in reply to one of Jeff and Pekoe's about 'has anyone hurt their chow unintentionally and had their chow shy away from them. :(

In my reply, I tell about how I grabbed Milly and hurt her and she was very upset with me. :cry:

Again, that said, chowlings must be disciplined but in a gentle firm and kind way. They can be very touchy!! :?

Funny little Chow Chows!

And as I have already said, there is a whole lot of chow chow in Chi Ching's beautiful, fat, fluffy, adorable baby body! :D
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

I don't know if this is true or not but I have heard rolling a Chow on their back could lead to bloat, Lou would know more about that but didn't mention it in her post so it may not be true but I still don't think you should roll a chow on their back, hit or yell at a Chow either.
Not that we intentionally hit our Chows but as Judy says an accidental hit,push or shove could have drastic consequences.

A firm no, slapping your hands together,(sharp loud clap) hitting the counter with a rolled up newspaper, or shaking a can of coins should be all it takes.

I Really think the biggest problem people have with training, disciplining or even living with a Chow is people thinking and treating a Chow as if it were a dog, Learn from your Chow then after a while you will be teaching, disciplining and reading each others minds with just a look. Unless its a Vet or Groomer thats a differant subject.
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Post by Maxwell »

i've never heard of this rolling... what is it?
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Post by Guest »

okay, please let me explain in a little better detail. First off, Chi-Ching and Skylar were sitting next to each other, they had been for about 30 minutes, Skylar was learning how to "pet the puppy nicely", I was sitting right next to ching and my sister was sitting next to her son. Ching was laying down. On one of his pets, Skylar closed his fists and pulled his hair. That is when ching growled and nipped at him, it wasn't a growl first and then a nip, it was all in one. At the EXACT same time, She grabbed Skylar and I grabbed Ching(by the scruff), I rolled him over from a laying down position and told him no. Now to me it was loud but I know I really didn't yell it, I did it in a very deep voice. It wasn't really something I had planned out or anything, it was really just my reaction. I put chi-ching in his crate about 5-10 minutes after that happened(then I got on here)
Chi-Ching has shown no resentment or bad feelings towards me or Skylar. He loves my two daughters(ages 3 and 5) and they are very gentle with him. He is getting good experiences with kids, I am making sure of that. I know better then to ever hit a dog, I honestly never have and never will.
I also would NEVER leave a dog unsupervised with any kids, not even Koda who I trust whole heartedly.
Thank you all for your advice! I really appreciate it!
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Post by Judy Fox »

Yes, I can see it was just one of those incidents that happened in an instance.

Don't let it worry you and spoil have the new baby chowling. :)

Just love him and enjoy! :)

And purple kisses for him from Milly and Mabel.
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Post by chowluver »

I don't know the answer to the discipline, but I have two Chows that both love to lay flat on there back to sleep and have from almost the day I brought them home. They are two years apart in age, 6 months and 2 1/2 years and still love to be rolled onto their backs and have there tummies rubbed. I just can't believe that there is any way that they are going to end up with medical problems from this form of play, with me and/or from each other. I wouldn't be far off if I said that I probably "roll" my dogs on there back several times a day every single day.
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Post by SWANCIN »

Hi,
I don't have anything to share about small children/babies and chows (no experience there), but as far as "alpha rolling", we did it once with our GSD/Akita mix when she would literally mount you in dominance. Did it once, it worked. Now for chows, they have a different leg structure and to flip them over and splay them flat on their back (which is essentially what alpha roll is) can hurt their legs! Kodi likes to lay down, on her side, with rear leg up (as in a nursing position) just for her own comfort, but to force them into that position has caused her to squeal in concern and/or pain the two times it did happen. Their legs have too stiff a gait to be roughed up like that. Just my opinion. :wink:
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Post by Maxwell »

i've never done it as dissipline then but have done it while playing with Max... is that bad?
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