Behaviorist

Training and behavior topics, guidelines, and tips for Chow Chows.

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chowfrnd88
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Behaviorist

Post by chowfrnd88 »

Hi all, well I finally have some time to tell you about how our appointment with the behaviorist went. This could be a lengthy post so I apologize ahead of time! You may want to read this as a bedtime story, it's so long!! Basically, she told us what Melanie had been suggesting all along, and also what Jeff had alluded to several times!

She was great! When she came in, she greeted Special right away. Then she came over to us. She continued to interact with him the entire time. This impressed me right away.

Basically, she told us what what we all already knew: that Special is a great chow! :D

We discussed both the nipping and the biting incident we had with her in depth. She told us that her assessment of the situation is that it's not a dominance issue and that to her it is a maturity issue. Something along the lines of "hey, I let you take everything from me when I wa syounger, but I don't like that anymore so I'm going to the bedroom to eat my chicken and mommy don't follow me!" She explained that dogs have a 12 inch rule and that when you get closer than that to certain dogs in certain situations, you become intimidating and they can get frightened. She said that with food, once you give it it becomes their food no matter what. Some dogs will tolerate you taking it from them and others will not. She said that with me, I had given him the treat and he warned him me several times but I ignored it because I ddin't know it was a warning (which we all already knew was my air-headedness :roll: ). She said he gave all the proper warnings that a healthy dog should give. She explained that with my husband it was different because Special found the bone and my husband wnated to take it from him. There was no time for a warning and Special bit. She asked what Special's reactions were after each incident. When I told her, she told us that this demonstrates to her that he is not seeing himself as dominant over us, but that there was a conflict in his mind and he essentially reacted without thinking. The fact that he whimpered after biting and came to us for petting and tried to cuddle with us, she said suggests him trying to restore the pack order. after interacting with him for over three hours, she said he is friendly and a well rounded dog overall.

She essentially told us to stop taking things from him!! She said that we should just let him eat when he's eating, she said that we could be just creating problems where there were none by disturbing him while he's eating (Jeff, sound familiar?) She said that he needs to learn that we are not a threat to him. I am allowed to go back to giving him the chicken strip and I am suppossed to walk by him and call his name, have him give me attention and toss him cheese bits as reward for that. Evetually, our presence around his highly prozed foods will lead to his thinking that something positive will happen when we're around his highly valued food item. Sounds great to me!

She told us to keep working on drop it and leave it. Once we're ready we're suppossed to set up an "obstacle course" to walk him through outside! That will be a while down the road for us though! :wink: He still is suppossed to get his food as treats or 1 cup in the am, 1 cup as training treats and 1 cup in the pm. She said he should never go back to free feeding though. She explained that in her opinion every single dog should be reared under the "nothing in life is free" pilosophy, like Melanie has been saying all along. Just like many of you have said, she talked about how different personalities need different rules.

She explained that our reactions to the nip and bite were good (except for me letting Special have the chicken anyhow!), especially what my husband did, just letting Special relax on his own. Like we all agree, she explained that the alpha rolling the dog into a submissive position and similar techniques is a no-no for any dog ever and also that with some dogs those actions make them more aggression. She even said that we need to keep an even tone with Special at all times. She said that to some dogs raised voices, etc are threats and they become scared and would escalate the situation since we have no way of knowing what Special endured with his previous owners.

There was a lot more like she also taught us relaxation techniques, gave us tips for the vets office, and told us that while solization is very important a dog should never be pushed beyond their limits. For example, if someone pets your chow and the chow says hello and then moves on the petter should respect that and move on too (which is the case with Special very often, he needs to say hello, but that's really ALL he wants! :D ). Anyhow, I've already made this post long enough so that's all for another time!

Obviously she said all this more eloquently and a lot more in depth. I would love some comments on this from you all. Anyhow, I really liked her. I highly recommend seeing a behaviorist to anyone experiencing any issues that warrant it. If anyone would like, I can ask her to recommend someone in another state. While the visit is pretty pricey, it's worth it to me. She was very understanding and kind and introduced us to some new ways of thinking.

My favorite part was when I told her some co-workers told me, "okay that's it get rid of him" and I told her I said NO WAY! She shook her head and said she always looks at it as what if we're having a bad day and he we snap at someone, imagine if we were put out every time for that? I was fighting back tears when she voiced what my husband and I had thought many times before, that this may be why his previous owners just put him out. A "that's it" kind of mentality. I cna't understand why, when he's the cutest, specialist ever! :D
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Rogansmommy
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Post by Rogansmommy »

It sounds like you have one great Behavioralist on your hands!!! Can we clone her???

I'm so happy you got positive feedback about Special. We all knew he was a great Chow. I'm glad you got to hear it from a stranger!
Michele

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chris
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Post by chris »

Yeah, clone her my way. She sounds A W S O M E ... !!!!!


btw, what were the tips for the Vet..;-) I need all the help I can get there.
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Judy Fox
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Post by Judy Fox »

Sounds good and positive. Bless him - we all know he is special. :D
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Victory
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Post by Victory »

Sounds like an awesome person.

I forgot Special was/is a rescue, so I'll add a little I learned from Darkwind and Firesong about rescues and found food.

Rescues know what it is to be hungry where anything found is to be eaten, because who knows when the next meal will come. What I've noticed is that even though they have regular meals and treats now, when they find something on the street, it's like their minds flash back to that other time and that whole "I'd better eat it now because..." thing happens, so it's a problem to get them to leave roadkill and other garbage alone, it takes many, many, many meals before they get it. I have noticed that if they get a meal or part of their regular meal before a walk, they are less likely to pay attention to stuff they find, (because they aren't really hungry) or they are at least slower to bounce on it and I can spot it before they do.

Another thing I'd work on with Special too, is him allowing someone to examine his mouth, that includes with your fingers. I recommend this because, first you should be able to look at his teeth and such yourself, (which will accostom him to it for the vet) but also in case he tries to swallow something and chokes. If he's used to you opening his mouth and then putting your fingers in a bit, he'll panic less in a situation like this. Also you should be checking his teeth to make sure he doesn't need them cleaned regularly anyway.

Also when it comes to vet visits I try to desynthesize my chows to the touchs that a vet will use. I hold their muzzles from the top and look in their eyes, (without a light though), look in their ears, wrap an arm around them an tap their sides, (like a vet moving the stethiscope around) pick up their legs and manipulate the joints, gently), lift their tails and push, (again gently) on their abdomens. Most people pet their dogs, brush them etc, and have a limited way of touching them. Then when they go to the vet and he/she starts with all this (to the dog) weirdness the dogs freak, and then everyone says it's the dogs fault.

Hope these suggestions will work with what the behavorist said.
Victory, Darkwind, (our angel), Firesong, and Dreamdancer
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Post by Auddymay »

Great Great Great! I always knew Special was a swell fellow! I'm happy the behaviorist eased your mind. I agree about being able to handle his mouth. I got lucky (if that is what you'd call it) with Lily, because I had to constantly probe Lily's mouth with my fingers to remove the tufts of black fur she pulled off poor Pip, from the moment we brought her home at 12 weeks. When I need to do any inspections (or hold her snout to keep her from barking) she just sits nicely, no struggles. I think Special was so lucky to find you, Katalin!
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Post by chris »

Know what ya mean about handeling the mouth. Steel lets me do that all the time only because, when you brush him and the fur balls that you pull out of the brush get put on the floor... while your brushing.. he trys to EAT them. :?
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Post by Victory »

chris wrote:Know what ya mean about handeling the mouth. Steel lets me do that all the time only because, when you brush him and the fur balls that you pull out of the brush get put on the floor... while your brushing.. he trys to EAT them. :?
Firesong does that! She looks silly with hair hanging our of her mouth. She'll try to swallow it. Darkwind and all the others used to spit it out, (which looks equally silly)
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Post by LEO's mum »

Please clone her and send her my way! It's nice to hear that there are "PROPER" experts out there. I also fogot Special is/was a rescue. How old is Special now? As I've written, we are sticking to our gun for now. I am varying our walk routes daily and she hasn't had a fit since I reported last. On top on hand feeding her kibbles only if she obeys a command, I'm giving her Vitamin B complex along w/ yogurt, & Vitamin E or Salmon capsule a day. Just put in her spaying+micro-chipping appointment for the 15th of August. Hope she won't come into her next heat by then(her first was in March). So many things to worry about....
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Post by jerryo »

I recently got a reminder of how important the "mouth handling training" can be. Benny got wise to my putting his antibiotic in a weenie bit for him. He started checking first, before eating the weenie and spitting out the pill. As I worked up the nerve to put the pill directly in his mouth, I kept remembering my old beagle-mix. Sticking anything in his mouth was a wrestling match, usually with some blood loss on my part -- so with Benny at 60 pounds, I was wondering how many fingers I would be able to keep.

The pleasant surprise was that either Benny has a natural talent, or someone in the past worked with him on that situation. He sat stoicly, with an embarrassed/annoyed/disgusted look on his face, but took the pill like a gentleman. I got to keep all my fingers.
chowfrnd88
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Post by chowfrnd88 »

Thanks everyone!

I wish we could clone her! I was very impressed. I was so prepared to defend Special, but that was never ever an issue.

That's funny about the hair balls. When Special is feeling especially silly, he will lunge at a hairball during grooming and it's anyone's guess if he tries to eat it or not! :D He does look hilarious with hair hanging from hsi mouth, and half the time he doesn't realize that it's still there! :D

Michele, you're right, it was nice to hear from her also how great he is. I've been thinking about how Melanie mentioned how hard it was to assess things online and was just relived that upon having assess the situation face to face, the reaction was still positive.

Chris, relative to the vet, she told us just what Melanie said: take him there several times when he doesn't have to go and let techs, receptionists and the vet all pet and get to know him and give him treats. She said to amke sure to coordinate with the vet office so they really do have time because if it's rushed then there won't be the same level of comfort for the pup. Also, she said that if he masters the "watch me" command, then when we're at the vet office, we cna distract him by asking him to watch us and treating him while the vet examines him. The idea is to get him to basically have these people in his circle of aquaintances so he can trust them to some extent and then distract him from whatever stress remains. I really love Victory's suggestion though. I'm going to start touching him more like he would encounter in an exam.

Judy, thanks so much! :D

Victory, thanks so much for your very awesome suggestions! I will focus on manipulating him more that way. I do examine his mouth a lot to check his teeth and he's not thrilled about it, but he lets me do it. I think I will increase doing that as well. Yes, she did mention just what you mentioned about rescues having a very difficult time letting go of the "I'd better eat it because..." mentality.

Audrey, you are so sweet, thank you so much.

Leo's Mum, Special is 1.5 to 2 years old now. I'm so glad things are looking up with Leo. Have you noticed her listening to you more? Since we started doing the nlif with Special, I find he listens an awful lot more to us! Especially when we're outside, before we wouldn't even exist! :D

I did mention this website to her and explained what an incredible resource it was and what an amazing group of people there are here!
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chris
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Post by chris »

And what did she say? :-)
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chris
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Post by chris »

BTW... Steel is currently Zoommmmmmmmming around the house... uh.. he is on my bed now chasing his tail.. oh wait.. just jumped down.. NO no he's back.. no OFF.. running around the bed on the groud... NO back on again.. chasing his tail again... jumping back and fourth from the head of the bed to the end.. now he is off.. ran down the stairs... I hear him in the kitchen... ............................................all is quiet.. hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm... :-oo Here he comes... oh.. tired now.. he is walking it off.. LMAOROTF
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chowfrnd88
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Post by chowfrnd88 »

She was impressed of course! :D :D :D

Oh my gosh! Go Steel!!!! Nothing like a great bout of the zoomies!! :D
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Post by 3blackchows »

Katalin, I'm so happy for you, Special & your husband. Any doubts about being a good chowmom shud be completely gone. \:D/ I always thought that using a different pitch/tone of ones voice (high pitch for good behavior & deep loud tone for mis-behaving) helped the dog learn between good & bad. It doesn't work w/ Gorman, he only responds to even tone communication; I never realized it til I read what she advised you. Also Gorman does not like or let anyone (except mom & dad) pet him on top of his head. He'll move away from you if you attempt to do this. He prefers others to pet him under his chin. I have been working w/ him on that & now he allows my niece & sister to pet him on his head. He is slowyly progressing.

Oh by the way Special, Irish here ... I heard my mom read what your mom wrote & recall something about if you get the food, you get to keep it.. share the wealth next time...ruff ruff

Steel, is your airplane or as Judy says "aeroplane" fixed yet because you need to fly her & a cheese head down to us in hotlanta, Gorman could use her help. How funny I thought that Gorman was the only chow who ate &/or chewed the hair from a grooming. This is what I LUV about this site; we all learn we have pretty normal kids. Go Steel Go!!! vroooooom vroooooommmmm.

Victory, what awesome suggestions. I have done that w/ my chowdren since I got them & people think I'm nuts. If I can add one more body part... the feet. You can't play w/ their feet enuf, it helps them get acclimate dto getting nail trims... but I'm sure thats been discussed before.
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3blackchows
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Post by 3blackchows »

I forgot to mention to Jerryo that when I read your post I
knew exactly how u felt. It's like how can they pick out the pill & then spit it out...as if to say... oh I'm on to you pal, I know your lacing my weiner w/ something..
I came across a product called pill pockets. You can get them @ Petco or Petsupermarket. I can pill my dogs fairly well, although sometimes I use them instead of having to pill them. It's a good alternate. Just thought I'd mention it.
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Post by Sharons Chows »

ah...Special...we always knew that you were special cause you are a rescue just like us.

JR and Cheyenne
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Auddymay
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Post by Auddymay »

Something else I forgot to mention- I do full body checks on Lily all the time. The spot she likes the least is checking under the skin between her toes. I have found those BB size burrs there several times! She really doesn't seem to mind, and I think alot of us do regular checks to avoid problems hidden in the fluff n stuff.
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Post by Jeff&Peks »

Another important thing about being able to check the mouth besides checking the teeth and being able to get food out, that's how I found Pekoes Oral Cancer, so when you all are in the mouth looking around check for little bumps on the tongue and all around the mouth and tongue area, check as far back as you possibly can, Pekoes tumor was so far back on her tongue it would probably be more the throat area. I was very lucky to have found that in the early stages. Oral Cancer in Chows and one other dark tongue breed, I forgot which breed, isn't that rare, there is a couple of Chows that go to Pekoe's Oncologist they weren't as lucky as Pekoe the cancer had spread before it was found, but they are all still hanging in there. Pekoe will never be cured the tumors could pop up at anytime but I found it early and the vaccine is keeping it under control, so we all hope.

For those that have trouble giving their Chows pills, dip the pill in cream cheese, its hasn't failed yet.
chowfrnd88
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Post by chowfrnd88 »

Thanks eveyone!

Celeste, thanks! Yeah, she actually emntioned that a lot of dogs in general don't like being petted on top of their heads and she was suprised that Special didn't seem to care about that. He acually doesn't so so much like being petteed under his chin! :shock: Special said to tell Irish he will happily sahre the wealth with all his pals!

Sharon, Special said to tell JR and Cheyenne: :inlove: [:D]

Audrey, oddly, Special is pretty good about examing areas like in between the toes but his dew claws are still weird to him when we touch them. It also took us a while to get him used to his rump area and his mouth.

Honestly Jeff, while Special's denatl health is very important to us, you and Pekoe are the reason we check his mouth. We had no idea how important it was until hearing from you on this site. Just like you suggested, we check his tongue, the roof and sides of his mouth and as far back as we can see in his throat. He's pretty used to me having my face in his mouth all the time! We experience a lot of that "biscuity freshness!" :wink: A few months ago a friend of mine also found a mysterious bump in her beagle's mouth the same way, luckily it turned out to be nothing, but like you all said, it's really good to check them all over.
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