Drop out?

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nnguyentang
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Drop out?

Post by nnguyentang »

So if you guys didn't know. I enrolled Violet in a puppy class. We went to our first session on tuesday night. It was good, more for us, not really for her. She picked up barking from other dogs and refuses to let anyone pet her over the head. I'm beginning to wonder if it's worth going. I read so many books on training dogs, training chows and puppy socialization. Do you guys think she'll be okay if I stop taking her to those classes? I am aware that she needs to socialize, I do take her EVERYWHERE with me. And I have puppy play dates for her. I also have another dog at home with her, but the other dog is a little older so she can't keep up with her energy. She picks up learning tricks super fast, and I'm teacher her how to stay right now. I was just wondering, for those who didn't take your chow to classes, how are they now? I'm not too worried about her being super obedient and doing cool tricks, I'm more worried that one day when I take her out, she might snap at someone to bite people that come up to us. Help?
-Nat and Violet
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Tippsy'smom
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Tippsy'smom »

I've never taken ANY of my dogs to training classes (I've been training the family dogs since I was 7 or 8 y/o), and they've all turned out well. As long as they're getting basic training and socialization there shouldn't ever be a problem.
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Hugo
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Hugo »

I have read on here that people shouldn't really pet dogs on the head, it's kind of demeaning, they should be (once accepted by the chow) petted on the side of the back or the chest. Perhaps your chow is telling the people this.
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Clovers_Mom
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Clovers_Mom »

Clover has been through Puppy, Intermediate, and Advanced training. (& graduated from all)
She picked everything up very quickly- however, with many breeds and espec. Chows she doesnt like or let you pet her head on intial contact (unless of course, its Jay or I)
I do have to say the 1st few puppy classes, I was getting concerned, i felt like everyones pup was so well behaved, but i think that she just needed to get comfortable in the situation.. ours was 1x a week for an hr. 6wk course for each.
Hope that helps.
Jess, Yes, agree with you. The socialization and basic training is so important whether it comes from the knowledgable owner or certified trainer. I tried (1x) training her myself, but i was not that successful at it. I felt like the trainer could explain to me how to overcome the obstacles in a way that Clover would understand.
Rory's Dad
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Rory's Dad »

i hate to suggest that you forfeit any fees you paid for these classes, but sometimes the group of dogs arent a good fit and can instill some poor behavior. Obviously, the pet owners have much to do with this, and there isnt a lot you can do about it. I think i said it on an earlier post, but these classes more instruct the owner rather than the dog. If you have picked up the basics on getting the dog to obey (sit, treat, down, treat, stay, treat), then i dont think you will get anything else out of them.

As for the head petting, Chows are notorious for being head shy. Much of this comes from a lack of peripheral vision, some just from their stand-off personality. I would continue to work on that. In the spirit of what Hugo said, first approach from under the muzzle and work around to the top. As long as the chow knows where you and your hands are, it should work well. Try not to approach from behind and instruct others in the same manner.
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Cam Atis
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Cam Atis »

Violet has a puppy for a pal right?
nnguyentang
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Re: Drop out?

Post by nnguyentang »

It all makes sense. When we take her out and strangers come up to pet her, she snaps and jumps as soon as someone reaches to pet her head, but anyone that scratches her chin first, she accepts. She loves running up to strangers but as soon as they come up to her, bam! she snaps. I don't mind teaching her myself, I feel like she would feel more comfortable around familiar people. I know socialization is very important, but the puppies in the class I was attending were teaching her bad habits, like leash pulling or jumping up from a sit position to bark. She actually doesn't have a puppy play mate. I am considering getting her one or finding friends with puppies. She does play with older dogs, 2 years and up. But that's about it, should I find her puppy mates? I have a puppy day care that has social sessions with other puppies, but I'm afraid leaving her there will change her. Or will she think I'm abandoning her when I leave her at a puppy day care?
-Nat and Violet
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Ursa's daddy
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Ursa's daddy »

My reply from another post: Here is what I do when someone approaches my dogs and wants to pet them. I stop and have the dogs sit. This tells them to relax and that I don't need them to be on alert or protective. I ask the person to approach from the front and hold their hand out at the level of the dog's nose or lower. They are to be still and let the dogs smell. If the dog does not draw back or react negatively, then I tell the person to touch the dogs under the chin or on the side of the ruff. Malachi does not like to be touched on the top of his head and especially the top of his muzzle, and Ursa is not too keen on it. Most dogs do not like to be touched on top. Under the chin seems to be ok for a first contact, and side of the ruff seems to be good. Most people remark about how soft and fluffy they are. Now Ursa was about a year old when I got Malachi at three months of age. He had been well socialized by the staff at the animal shelter because of his outgoing personality and of course the fluffy chow puppy charm. Walking the two of them together in social situations helped Ursa gain confidence. Having her visit with an older dog should be good if she likes it.
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Sirchow
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Sirchow »

I would come up with some sort of excuse that people can relate to for not touching her head....like an old injury then they will be sympathetic and glad to touch her shoulders instead. I find with all my chows that a hand held out to sniff makes them very leary as they think they should be nervouse and the people who read their body language and go straight to pat them first actually are accepted much better as the chows pick up on their confidence. I know this is contrary to all we are taught about dogs but then these are chows not dogs :D
On the subject of classes I am very unsure about this myself. Isla has just started classes and so far has only learnt stuff I have had to unlearn her again at home. Like sitting when she is meant to stand for showing but for her the socialisation is worth it because she is way out her comfort zone without her mom there by her side and I realise that Izzie and Isla have been relying on each other so much for company lately. She spent most of the first class under the chairs hiding froma german shepherd who shouted his mouth off throughout. So I suppose my thoughts are if you can provise the socialisation properly without classes and have the strength and skills now to teach her what you want her to know then I am not sure how much use they are to you. Just make sure you put Violet outside her comfort zone often. I realise how I have made this mistake thinking that four dogs would socialise themselves. They dont. Puppies need to go outside the house for their learning. Let us know how you get on as I am interested to see how this goes for you. :)
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Siriol, Bramble, Izzie and Isla.
Rory's Dad
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Rory's Dad »

Sirchow, you have said exactly what i was thinking. The puppy classes offer some socialization opportunity but it is hit or miss , depending on the other participants.

Isla, very obviously, is a show dog when she comes of age. We have dog shows within our immediate area quite frequently (currently with very little chow activity, but that is another story). Great places for anyone looking to socialize their dog. Most often, you will find the best behaved dogs at these events. In my area, shows average approx 1K dogs each weekend. Your chow will get an opportunity to walk amongst all the different breeds and lots of people as well. Clearly the spaces are filled with dog people and mostly they are responsible types, so very few instances of misbehavior by dog or person.

Even better, a lot of these events only charge a minimal parking fee. Costs are pretty much covered by the entered dogs, so its a cheap date. Here in the US, event info is available at infodog.com, where you can search by date or location. Sorry, but not sure who handles events outside the US.
Pirate & Pandora
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Pirate & Pandora »

I am on my first chow and yet to take her to formal training classes, but since I was little my family has had many dogs including italian greyhound show dogs which are also notoriously stubborn. Combining that with their ability to run at speeds that only Olympians stand a chance at keeping up with makes training these dogs incredibly difficult. Our first Italian greyhound was the only dog we took to formal training the rest we trained at home with praise intensive techniques. I have found that my chowling is actually easier to train than Italian greyhounds and many other high energy dogs due to their loyalty to their owners. In my personal experience using the same techniques to train show greyhounds and to train my personal chowling ( who will only ever be a pet) I have found that using similar praise rich
training has worked wonders. At 2 months my chow would sit stay and come almost every time, with a few slip ups when other high energetic dogs or people were around. I personally don't believe you need a professional trainer to teach a pup how to be a good pet. If you want a show quality dog you may need a professional but personal pets require less training. I think if you work with your dog multiple times a day for short increments you should find ur pet will behave as well as the best professionally trained pet. While it is harder to teach tricks or things like agility training
(which are not necessary for a pet) a dog can be taught to be a great pet without the need for formal training.

If you don't like your training classes I would highly recommended googling training techniques or going to the library and reading up on how others train dogs. Obviously using only techniques that you think will be suitable for your pet.

I think if u put in the effort you could have the results of a beginning obedience course with your chow. I have, but as I said before this is my first chow and my pup could be abnormal. I would suggest using praise and ocassionaly treats to reward your dog. If you use only treats dogs tend to only behave if food is available so teaching that verbal praise and petting are rewards ensures that the dog listens no matter if their is a treat involved or not. For "punishment" I **strongly** suggest submissive positions such as rolling your chow to lay on its side and lightly hoding this position. This will show you are alpha without the unnescary pain of choke collars that make stubborn dogs skiddish and afraid of you. This shows you are boss without hurting or scaring the pup.

I have yet to take my pup to formal training courses mostly because i do not live near enough to those who trained my show dogs as well as her needs are less servere as i never plan on making her a show dog as she will be spayed and treated as only a pet. I have had amazing results using submissive holds and pet based training and even when we go to the dog park I get compliments on her obvious beauty but more importantly I am asked how I trained my dog and told she is the best behaved dog either dog owners have met despite her 4 month age. Granted I am not in school at the moment due to summer so I have plenty of time to train and exercise her. ( I strongly believe a happy dog is a tired dog) I suspect when my university starts classes she will not advance so quickly.

If you really think your dog is picking up bad habits and do not want to continue with your obiedence classes AND YOU HAVE TIME TO DEVOTE TO TRAINING THE CHOW you can have a great and loving pet without the need of a trainer. I hope this helps.
Pirate & Pandora
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Pirate & Pandora »

Oohhh and btw my Italian greyhound is 15 with arthritiups so she cannot play with my chowling but by telling my chow what is and is not acceptable they have formed a sort of friendship. My greyhound is so well behaved (she was a show dog) only the chowling needed to be told how to correctly interact with an older dog. Though my little chow does try to steal my greyhounds food since it is left out at all times and often includes special meat dishes (my greyhound has lost the majority of her teeth despite dental cleanings every 6 mo but that is the build of an Italian greyhound)

Also buy socializing and training my chowling I have taught her to be happy with any petting and even taught her to "kiss" (licking affectionately on command) she will allow anyone to pet her anywhere if I am around and even let a person get face to face with her and kiss her even while they pet or play with her head. Just slowly work up to it. I had a cocker spaniel as a child that bit a women's nose off due to her standing face to face with the dog even after she was asked not to and the dog began to growl. I had to put the dog down and unfortunately the women had to get 19 stitches it was horrifying and incredibly sad situation. Not all people will know or want to interact correctly with a dog and may not follow your instructions so to be safe if your dog interacts with strangers I would teach your dog to be accepting of any type of affection, as I had to learn the hard way. People can be arrogant or morons and unfortunately dogs must pay the price even when they were just obeying instincts and the person was told it was a bad idea and to stop. Please if nothing else teach your dog to tolerate petting from strangers who may act foolishly. I would never want anyone to go through the pain of losing a beloved family member due to a strangers behavior.

Sorry thought this was important, I still get sad thinking about losing my spaniel and feel so guilty that I did not force the women to leave or pick up my dog and just run away.
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Cam Atis
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Cam Atis »

Sorry to hear about your experience with your spaniel. Some people are not well informed or no fear but moron sometimes suit them for a description.
I loved dogs but i will never place my face within grabbing distance from a dog that is not mine no matter how friendly he seemed to be especially if that was our first meeting. Did you saw the television anchor whose face got bitten by a pitbull (owned by the police or firemen?). I think she wanna interview the dog too so she got closer to the dog and got a nasty reply. I wonder if that pitbull was put down also? He being a hero dog.

Nguyentang, TRUE your chow pup can get some ideas from other dogs in the class and will try it at home. Personally, I think it is just a waste of money - puppy class - But I dont know about you how you think it is important to have her on a puppy class.
Cassie has gotten food aggressive (many months ago) because of Blue. That is one example of puppies picking up habits from an older dog. Blue is food aggressive if Cassie is nearby but he would be nice to me at once. Cassie made the mistake to be food aggressive even to me. Well, she knows better now ever since I reprimand her and shook her by the scruff/neck - me flashing anger at her - she now let me grab food from her mouth
wokman
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Re: Drop out?

Post by wokman »

My Chows trained me. Just look and listen, they are very wise.
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Ursa's daddy
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Re: Drop out?

Post by Ursa's daddy »

@wokman, you have a good point. My initial dog training came many years ago from a GSD/collie mix. Just look and listen is some very insightful advice.
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