Best Type and Brand of Muzzle for Chows?

[Sarah]

Hello everyone!

I hate to do this but I do believe we need to get my 2 year old Chow Chow Lola a muzzle. No, I take that back; I KNOW she needs one! She never has and never will bite a human, but she just gets too excited with other dogs and tries to pounce on them and bite when meeting. However, she does still need to socialize with them, so a muzzle is a necessity.

We adopted Lola 8 months ago, from a pet clinic that found her on the streets. This is why she isn't very sociable. She never got socialization as a pup.

I've heard on this site that basket cage muzzles are recommended, if any, but please, give me your opinions! Especially if your chow has one. As well, I'd love to know your brand of choice

Thank you very much for your time and replies!
Each one counts

[Auddymay]

If you are in the USA and have On Demand, look up the show, It's Me or the Dog Victoria works with reactive dogs alot. You can pick up some good tips how to positively work on this problem. A muzzle won't help. Limit your dog's contact with other dog's until you do some rout training in a controlled setting.

[Rory's Dad]

According to Sarah's profile, she is in Montreal. I personally hate the thought of muzzling my dog. In the past though, we did have to muzzle Teddee for vet visits. Although he was very friendly at home, we did not do enough to socialize him in other situations, so every time he got in the car, he knew where he was going and got himself into a mindset. I also dont think the vet was comfortable with chows, so Teddee figured he could control the situation.

The vet used a basket muzzle. Teddees snout was shorter than picture with your dogs, but he was pretty good at getting it off. Your picture shows a band muzzle, so your experience with that might actually be better.

If your dog is trying to bite, outside of normal dog play, then you need to be responsible with him and to the other dogs. Hopefully, it can be a learning experience for him. Perhaps the same set of dogs are there and he can get used to one or two of them, so that the muzzle isnt needed for them. Expand that as he hangs out with other dogs if possible. Its not too late to teach him what is acceptable. I dont think there is any other way to teach him what is acceptable with other dogs, other than to have him around other dogs.

[Ursa's daddy]

Auddymay is right about the show, It's Me or the Dog. Victoria has a lot of good tips and insight on dog psychology. You may have to modify her advice a little for your dog, but it usually is good advice.

[Sarah]

I checked out the show It's Me or the Dog online and Victoria has used a muzzle in a similar case to mine. This muzzle would be for teaching! Not a permanent tool.

[spiceywolfe]

I got my muzzle from here (http://www.dog-muzzle-store.com/) per recommendation of my dog's trainer. They are custom made to fit your dog and very affordable. I paid less than 50 USD for mine. Since I couldn't find a section for Chows (although I could have over looked it) I ended up going with a boxer style. Although all are made specifically with your dog in mind. His has lasted quite well. They're made with steel and leather, and even have padding for the top of the muzzle. He hates his muzzle, but wears it when he knows he has to.

[kingalls]

I use a soft muzzle on Nahkohe for vet appointments. The vets/groomers may have available muzzle but I think it's better to have your own and not one that has another dog's smell - more stress. Wish muzzles weren't necessary for situations requiring him to be touched by a vet or groomer but it is what it is.

[TyChowgirl]

I thought about getting my own too for that reason too Kingalls...I didn't want to have to, but they all feel "safer" with it on. And I don't blame them, all the people save that one vet tech, don't have an issue with him, but know he's very frightened of having other people touch him and don't want to take the chance because they've had reactive chows. I need to get him around them more, but I don't know when they'd have to time to just get to know him. So I thought about getting my own and practicing him having it on in a safe and positive environment so he doesn't always relate it with something negative..

[Tippsy'smom]

I've never used a muzzle on any of my dogs, even with Tippsy, who could have easily been a fear biter. When we were in public, I became hyper aware of how she was feeling and the goings on around us. I made sure to keep people from touching her (she wasn't one to want affection from strangers, just wanted to watch them, so I told them that she probably wouldn't want to be touched, and not to push it). And she was NEVER muzzled at the vet. Of course, the 2 vets she went to, took the time to get to know her and let her get to know them before trying too much with her. As long as I held her head while they gave shots, she was fine.

And the only time Jasper was ever muzzled, was when he went in for his ear infections. The vet (tried a new vet and never again will we go back there) didn't trust him.

Dixie's never had to be muzzled.

Your picture shows a band muzzle, so your experience with that might actually be better.

That's actually a halti. It's similar to a halter you'd put on a horse. And it doesn't keep them from biting.

[Sarah]

Thank you all for your replies. And yes, as Tippsy'smom said, what Lola is wearing in the photo is just a halti, which gives the walker more control so Lola doesn't pull, since she was a stray and never learned how to walk properly on a leash. It aids in trying to teach her to walk.
And PLEASE, everyone, do not compare your chow to Lola by saying thinks like yours doesn't ever need a muzzle except at the vet, because she's NOT like your chow chows! In fact, she is practically the opposite! The vet is the one that found her on the streets before we adopted her, so no one at the clinic would EVER be bitten by her! Never need a muzzle there. Never mind the vet, she would never harm any human being on this planet, unless they were a threat to her owners, which has never happened. Nor has she harmed a dog, but when she is allowed near one, she gets close to.

[Sarah]

Thank you all for your replies. And yes, as Tippsy'smom said, what Lola is wearing in the photo is just a halti, which gives the walker more control so Lola doesn't pull, since she was a stray and never learned how to walk properly on a leash. It aids in trying to teach her to walk.
And PLEASE, everyone, do not compare your chow to Lola by saying thinks like yours doesn't ever need a muzzle except at the vet, because she's NOT like your chow chows! In fact, she is practically the opposite! The vet is the one that found her on the streets before we adopted her, so no one at the clinic would EVER be bitten by her! Never need a muzzle there. Never mind the vet, she would never harm any human being on this planet, unless they were a threat to her owners, which has never happened. Nor has she harmed a dog, but when she is allowed near one, she gets close to.

[Cam Atis]

I see you are worried Lola will pounce on another dog. You dont mind people as you know Lola is kind to people but not to other dogs. BUT such behaviour - is a normal canine behaviour. Never trust them not to bite when they are sniffing each other, when they are near each other as it could erupt into a dogfight.
However, if you put a muzzle on Lola during stroll in a dog park or during meet ups with other canines, be ready for Lola's defense is case she is the one attacked as she can't defend herself if she is muzzled.
I saw a wire basket muzzle as compared to nylon fabric muzzle, you need to know how long you are going to put Lola in it. Wire basket muzzle is designed to be worn a lot longer than the fabric muzzle.

[Merlin]

Hi Sarah

Just in case you didn't know, we do have a chapter in Montreal that meets up regularly.
We are a chow rescue and have well established experience in aggression issues or behavioural issues of any kind pertaining to chows.
People send us chows for re-training from all over North America.

If you attend one of our meetups you can happily work with one of our trainers. There is absolutely no cost, you can go as often as you like, and the objectivity is to help you with your chow by working with people who have overcome the same problems you currently have.

Our next meetup is Sept 22nd, in Gatineau if you are interested, with another on the West Island two weeks later. If you are interested in working with high experience breed specific trainers, please contact me. Again, there are no costs associated with any of our meetups and you'll be in fine company because lots of people with the same problem as you have show up. Hope to hear from you. Your problem is a very easily solved one, and a simple hands on technique will shave weeks/ months off your efforts.

[Rory's Dad]

Older post, i know, but some interesting recent activity. Cam is right in that by muzzling your dog and then putting her in social situations, you are limiting her ability to defend herself. The muzzle may prevent her from attacking, but she is still going to put out a vibe that she is not comfortable, thereby inviting confrontation. Dog to dog aggresion, in and of itself is not the norm. Just like people, they should have others dogs they connect with and like. Occasionally, there will be personality conflicts. Your dog should not view every other dog it meets as a threat or an opponent. Sounds like there was an issue that she remembers prior to rescue. It could be a food issue or treatment, who knows.

If within your range, take Merlin up on his offer. He is a very experienced Chow owner who has had great success with retraining. It would be great to see Lola actually enjoy her outings rather than being muzzled down out of fear or aggression.

[Merlin]

Hi Rory's Dad.
For the record... Merlin... ( myself) is a "she", not a "he" - but thank you for the nice "plug" even that I believe we've never worked together or met and you know me not.

As an anecdote to your comments; the use of a muzzle is in no way limiting to the psyche of the dog, if the muzzle is properly introduced and the dog learns to recognize it as a piece of daily wear rather than an instrument of cruelty or a device used only if bad behaviour is present. In countries, such as Italy, in many cities, muzzling is a hard coded law. Dogs who are walked outside in public, ( no matter what breed or what size), must, by law, wear them wether they like it or not, and I can assure you that they aren't suffering mental breakdowns because of it. It all has to do with proper conditioning. We have some chows in our group who can only be out in public with muzzles ( because of altercations with the law - and muzzling imposed upon them by law), and they are more than fine! - they play, are calm, are now "balanced", have no problems whatsoever, so please don't read things into muzzling that are not prevalent or accurate. There is absolutely everything good about training your chow to accept and be comfortable with a muzzle. There may come a day that he/she may need medical treatment and muzzle will be necessary... and it's totally unfair to slap one on your unsuspecting, ill, or injured dog, and then expect the dog not to react negatively.

In all fairness to Sarah... she's just here asking about types of muzzles, but it's entirely possible that she doesn't need one and that her chow just needs to understand a few concepts about her environment. She won't know if she doesn't work with someone.

We take chow aggression here very, very , very seriously here, because the moment; " aggression" + the word "chow" come together, the dog's life is at HIGH risk. It is a very, very serious thing because chows die, people and other animals get hurt, every day due to their owners, not taking an effective role in the education and management of their dog. I'm not saying these owners don't mean well, or don't love their dogs, but they need to get themselves and their dog educated.

We received upwards of 15 calls a day, countless emails for help with aggressive chows.
Unfortunately by the time we get the call, the people want to get "rid" of their chow, rather than "work" with the problem that they've helped create.

- and unfortunately, most often, by the time they reach out for help, the problem is very much out of control. Myself personally this year so far, I had to witness the euthanasia of more than 11 chows UNDER the age of 2 years old, simply because the owner would NOT take the dog to school or developed an attitude towards working with a trainer. The excuses we hear are the sames ones we always hear.
..... and that's just me.. not other rescues. I am more than sure other rescues can tell you the same story

I can tell you first hand knowledge though, that irregardless of breeding ( genetics), past history, or all the run-of-the-mills excuses we've heard about how or why chows may become aggressive, the resounding factor in all cases is the failure by the owner to properly educate or social their dog - "properly". There are people who "think" they can do it , or "are", doing it , and eventually they realize they were gravely mistaken.

It would be nice to see people here advocate canine education FIRST and foremost as a solution to aggression problems rather than making all sorts of hap-hazard suggestions, because again.. {{ and yes, the suggestions here are hap-hazard.}} People really need to understand the gravity that the dog's life is at risk and it is truly, no light matter.

Unless you are there , together with the person, to see and evaluate how they interact together with their dog, you cannot truly help them - because what works for you, won't work for them if they are not the same type of owner that you are, with the same type of dog, in the same type of environment, manifesting the same type of situations, and one cannot solve aggression issues through guess work or experimentation.

The owner absolutely must be willing work, "hands on" , with someone, ( preferably a professional) ( and no , I'm not selling anything), in order to work out the problems. There is absolutely no work-around for that. Most rescues who are able to help, will do this willingly because at the end of the day, it keeps the dog in home and out of the shelter system or off of death row. ( that is the objective anyways)

and PS - By the way, Sarah lives in a city, whereby this coming February, the City of Montreal is voting to pass a bylaw that if a dog attacks, even scratches ANYTHING and breaks skin, be it human or animal.. even in self defense, the dog is to be immediately euthanized- PERIOD. Imagine!!! Will the law pass? We are certain that it will. That is how intolerant society has become towards this entire topic of dog aggression.... so please help.. please advocate professional intervention and profession training because it's sets the owner on the 'right' path. I can assure you that it is very heartbreaking and frustrating watching them die unnecessarily. The moment a chow displays aggression to the point that you need to go online for solutions...... get your butt into school.

Cheers!

[Rory's Dad]

Well 1st off Merlin, my apologies for mis-classifying your gender. And no, we have never met or worked together, however i have seen many of your posts both here and on a different Chow forum. I have felt that those posts have been knowledgeable and sound, which is why i suggested Sarah would be well advised to take advantage of an opportunity to get your 'hands on', 'in person' assessment and assistance. I also offered no suggestion to resolve her issue, but did mention a few potention causes to the problem.

I also did not suggest that the muzzling was the issue in itself, but was attempting to convey that the muzzling was not resolving an underlying cause, and could in fact cause some anxiety. Certainly there are times that muzzling is necessary both for safety issues and for areas that have legislated it. Wouldnt it be better to try and resolve the aggressive behavior and treat the need for the muzzle around other dogs.

Now maybe, it wasnt as eloquently stated as your 'anecdote', but the post wasnt in any manner hap-hazard. If nothing else it was supportive of the original request for advice.

Intended or not, your post comes across as vindictive and derogatory. I have successfully raised chows for the past 15 years, and am certainly not a rookie to this breed. I understand their temperments and behavior, and certainly will continue to share what has worked for me. That is the basis of this forum.

[Merlin]

Intended or not, your post comes across as vindictive and derogatory.

Why are you making this about you? It's not about you. - because I said "hap-hazard"?

I'm glad to hear that you've been successful over the years with your chows. Many people have, but by the same token, just reading the tumultuous amounts of questions posted here, it's clear that a great many others haven't. - but that doesn't mean you or anyone else, ( including myself), can help someone with aggression issues simply by relaying one's own experiences. If that recipe held merit, then all of us dog trainers could do our trade by sending out a pile of emails to our clients, letting them know what we did with our clients from last week, and that would be that, so yes, the concept is hap-hazard and so are suggestions because they are based on too limited information. In fact, often behaviour modification of aggressive dogs, often uses a very successful, technique that teaches the dog that biting is entirely inconsequential and entails that the trainer to exposure themselves to being bitten by the dog numerous times. One can only do this with specialized equipment that protects the handler, who by the way is highly skilled and knows exactly what they are doing. There is no room for quess work in working with aggressive dogs.

Example:

but she is still going to put out a vibe that she is not comfortable, thereby inviting confrontation

How do you know she's going to put out a vibe? Have you seen the dog? Have you seen what triggers the dog into lunging? How can you make this particular pesronality assesement without even knowing or having seen the dog or how the owner handles the dog? I can show you two dozen chows who in the same situation will feel plenty comfortable in that same situation and contrary to what you are suggesting here, certainly would not be inviting confrontation, yet would lunge still at a dog. So yes.. it's hap-hazard.

Another Example

A muzzle won't help. Limit your dog's contact with other dog's

- in fact, there is nothing farther from the truth... so yes... as far as I'm concerned this is hap-hazard information

To be effective in the area of dog aggression, aggression issues have to be handled in "real-time" and not "e-time", it's absolutely a process based on individual evaluation and individual temperaments, and individual requirements, and if the potential death of a dog isn't profoundly motivating enough for you to suggest to someone to seek out professional help, it's unfortunate, but entirely your prerogative. -

I think it's great to let people know about each other's experiences! Sure! It gives everyone hope that there is a light at the end of their tunnel - nothing wrong with that... but that isn't going to solve their problem!

Like I said, and I can't shout it loud enough, dogs D I E because their owners often don't make right decisions regarding the dog and the solution for behaviour modification is absolutely not found in a chat room on the internet.

This has nothing to do about you, your skill or the years you've spent raising your dogs.

Sarah, I do hope if you're still out there you opt to come and join us some day.

[Ursa's daddy]

Sarah, if possible, I suggest that you meet with the Montreal chapter that Merlin mentioned. Getting a muzzle may be a good idea, and it can be a useful tool, but training is a definite must. Training will give Lola additional ways to deal with situations that may arise. Training and socialization are important, especially for chows, and this is a continuous process. I take my two out to see the world because I have to make sure that we can deal with typical situations that arise. Socialization and training are a team thing, and by being in public with my two, I learn what behavior points I need to improve. While this discussion has wandered a bit, the real issue is you and Lola. You two are the team that must work well in all situations, and that will take practice by both of you. I know that I must continuously work with Ursa and Malachi to make sure that they are reliable and well behaved.