HELP!

Training and behavior topics, guidelines, and tips for Chow Chows.

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Cam Atis
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Re: HELP!

Post by Cam Atis »

Cute as a teddy! Same coat color as mine. At least you got her to pose! Congratulations. Mine is always zoomie , zoom-zoom!
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Re: HELP!

Post by queeniethequeen »

hahahaha she just came from our daily walks during that time so she's a little tired.:))
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Re: HELP!

Post by bellachow »

You may have stumbled onto your answer to the rough zoomies...take her for more or longer walks or maybe find a neighbor who also has a puppy she can play with to get rid of that energy :D

I may be a little different but as long as they were playing I didnt mind them nibbling on me. However, like Victory & Ursa's Daddy, if they clamped down too hard I would just say 'No' and play would stop. Even now, if I am on the computer and he wants my attention, Chumley will very gently put his mouth around my hand to get my attention (he takes his treats very gently too).

The great news is that right now you have a puppy that needs lots of training & socializing but Nadine should chill out as she gets older. Belle is now 3 & Chumley a little over 1, they still have some serious zoom time but at bedtime they will jump on the bed to lay down/sleep with me for about 15 minutes or so (then they jump down & go lay over the ac vent :lol: )

BTW: Nadine is a cutie!
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Ursa's daddy
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Re: HELP!

Post by Ursa's daddy »

cute
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Re: HELP!

Post by queeniethequeen »

Thanks for the compliments!:) I will inform you soon on Nadine's training progress.:)
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Re: HELP!

Post by queeniethequeen »

Hello friends! how are you?:)

i think i need your help. Nadine is not listening to me whenever i tell her to stop biting slippers or things she should not bite. worse, she doesn't listen to me when i tell her to stop biting me or any member of my family. i am honestly worried that i cannot control her and she doesn't listen. i also noticed that a few days ago, she started to become more aggressive. whenever she's out of her crate, her zoomies will start and she will bite anyone. She will also not let anyone touch her and will start biting when somebody does. what should i do with this kind of puppy? I am considering having her eat chili whenever she bite. right now i always hit her mouth and talk to her in an angry voice when she bites someone. will it be effective? i do not want her to get hurt.:(
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oceans
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Re: HELP!

Post by oceans »

Ugh!! Chili are you serious. First off never ever hit your chowling. This will not be effective. Bite inhibition is a work in progress. It takes a whole lot of patience and consistency. I can pretty much asure you that she is not aggresive. Nadine is a puppy who like all puppies loooove to bite and play with anything that moves (especially feet). I don't know how much Nadine is getting in excercise but maybe taking her for walks will help her expel some of this energy. Boredom will make her want to start the nip and grab game. Also time out is a wonderful way that will help her understand something is not allowed. Even if it's just 5 minutes in a different room away from you. Socialization is extremely important at this age so maybe a puppy class. This would help with energy and socialization at the same time.I know for example my Matilda is 10 months old and she is settling into a very proper young lady. That's not to say she doesn't have her moments of having to be reminded though. The thing I have learned the most is be respectful of them with lots of consistency and before you know it they are past this stage; growing into proper Chows. Also lots of love!!!! Oh yeah, one more thing. Someone had once told me when I first got Matilda to implement NLIF and I must say this really works. I think it makes Matilda a happier girL. You can search NLIF on the forum. Good Luck.
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Re: HELP!

Post by Cocoa »

Well said Oceans. I'd like to add that the time outs should not be in her crate, I think someone else mentioned this earlier too. Nadine should not associate her crate with punishment. NLIF works great, definitely read up on it. All puppies are going to want to chew on things, they are teething, it is up to you to teach her what is and what isn't appropriate to chew on. When she tries to nip at you redirect her to one of her chew toys. Oceans is right she needs exercise and socialization, a tired dog is a happy dog.
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Re: HELP!

Post by Rory's Dad »

Lots of great replies on this post. I would read back through them and maybe even jot down some notes...1st and foremost is the NILIF advice...reward good behavior and either ignore or time out on the bad behavior. Do not meet negative issues with punishment aside from separating yourself from the pup. Dont put her in the crate for poor behavior, and dont slap her nose. This will result in a dog that doesnt go where she needs to for protection (crate), and will have her snapping at any hand that approaches her head. I like the yelp for times when she mouths people, followed by ignoring her or separating her from her family. For other items, replacement is good, replace the slipper with one of HER items/toys.

Puppy classes are great for her socialization, she will get used to being around other people and dogs. They are also great for you, they will show you how to reward the pup when she does what you want. Mostly food/treat based, but this method works well. Most pet chains run a schedule of these and they can be fairly well priced.

Allow the zoomies, but stand back...let her run off the energy without interference. Sit back and have a laugh while she slips and slides across the floor.

Forget about the Chili idea...i'm pretty old school and my parents used Tobasco on the tongue for foul language...this will not help your Chow, it will probably cause her to protect her good food and result in a food aggression. Definitely not something you want. Besides that, it wont be good for her digestive system.

She needs to be taught to allow people, particularly you to touch her. You should start with calling her by name, and rewarding her with a treat when she comes. Dont reward her until she is fully up next to your legs, and have petted her around the collar area. Build on this by extending to the legs, paws, belly, head and such. You will need to be able to do this to check for ticks, bumps, bruises, and lumps anyway. You need to get her accustomed to this for vet visits anyway. And dont be afraid to get a bit 'rough' with this. If she encounters children along the way, they may handle her this way and she should be used to it. Don't reach out for her, let her come to you.

She is a really beautiful looking dog. I think you are going through her childhood and need to parent her a bit. Remember that she is still a baby, and whatever she learns about right and wrong comes from you. There are definitely methods to getting the appropriate responses, and the reg posters here give great advice on what has worked well.

Understand what works best for you and your pup, they are all just a bit different, but keep in mind that a Chow is not a Golden Retriever, a Bassett Hound, or a Chihauhau. They have different views of the world and the training needs to take that into account. Very smart, adaptable dogs, just a bit different is all.
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Re: HELP!

Post by queeniethequeen »

Hello friends! thank you for the good advices! i really appreciate it. keep 'em coming! i will keep you posted on Nadine's progress.:)

anyway, is a bathroom a good time out room whenever she bites?

what treats does chow chow like? i want to use it for Nadine's training.
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Re: HELP!

Post by Rory's Dad »

The bathroom is fine for time outs.

As for the treats, that can be tricky. Mine love Train-Me! treats in the house for regular repetitions, but ignore them in the yard or at puppy class. We step up to Tillman's for those occasions. When Rory is learning the show ropes, he is particularly distracted and we step that up to small bits of american cheese or clumps of liver.

You will need to see what she reacts to. In my experience, it depends on the environment as well. Some instances just call for a 'stepped up' treat
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Re: HELP!

Post by queeniethequeen »

what is a stepped up treat?

Will Nadine enjoy dog biscuits in blueberry, orange, or apple flavor? and also, Nadine has 7 red marks on her paper so i'm actually interested in joining a dog show with her. what tricks should i teach her?:)
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Re: HELP!

Post by Cam Atis »

First, if I have learned a thing or two from observing my 3 month old chow Cassie is: Never hit her in the mouth. Though I have raised several other breeds and that kind of thing worked on larger breeds... BUT girl, IT DOESN'T WORK with a Chow - at least with Cassie. She will just respond to me by play-bowing and nipping more the ankles which to me is an invitation to play rough.

Second, CHILI? isn't that extreme? DONT DO IT - it will sting her eyes. Do instead a bitter apple or bitter gourd juice as nose spray.

You mentioned you have some other people in your house, right? You all have to be informed what to do in such a situation. No matter how you behaved around your chowling, if other people in the house behaved otherwise, the training will be lost. Nadine will be confused which behaviour is acceptable and which is not.

Attention to nadine, whether negative or positive, has an impact on her psyche. So you have to reinforce good behavior by giving her treats when she has done good or be consistent in giving verbal rewards and hugs. I find Cherriemater's advice helpful. When nothing works, give your chow a hug. I find Cassie to respond in a positive way by laying down. That kind of hugging when nothing works is a NO-NO in my dalmatians.

Also, don't take it against the pup whenever you want to pet her, she will bite at your fingers, cassie is also like that. The more you hyper react! (negative) the more she is encouraged to do it!
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Re: HELP!

Post by queeniethequeen »

what is Cherriemater's advice?

I started training her by isolating her in a room whenever she bites. will she understand it?
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Re: HELP!

Post by Cam Atis »

She might understand, but apparently she still dont get it. Cassie's nipping is lessened and almost none recently. She is not yet free roaming. She is caged. I let her out 4 to 5x a day to train her and let her poop outside. No accidents in her cage in a long while coz she can hold it longer. So you can imagine she is sooo excited to go out. Each time out ranges from 30 minutes to 60 minutes.

Cheriemater's advise is this: hug the frustrator when you are frustrated if you are at your wits' end . Lots of loving and hugging.
You see that kind of approach is a NO NO in my dalmatians. But apparently, it is a YES to purebred chows.

Now back to you. Seems u are using or changing your approach rather quickly? Correct me if im wrong. Give each reprimand approach at least 7 days to sink in with Nadine before deciding it is not working. Consistency is key. Repetition. Imagine trying to tell a 9month old human baby not to put on dirty things in her mouth. That's Nadine. And she will never grow up She'll be stuck so much like a 2 year old human.

Crating (and crate is inside a separate room or in the same room) GOOd!
But if you are sending her to a room not crated thereby granting her free roaming times, then you are not communicating that you did not like her biting. Unless it is a small bathroom like 3feet by 5feet. Space must be small to be effective.

Leash training helps a lot. Do not allow her off leash yet if she is like that. Hold her leash and make it tout when she is about to bite (nip ) anyone or you. I find it more canine (humane :-) so basically it is either she is leashed or crated. I think it should be maximum of 2 weeks she will learn because being leashed you can correct almost all her bad behaviours. Be kind. True, chows respond to gentleness. Cassie does. As long as pure chow then temperament is rather predictable.
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Re: HELP!

Post by Cam Atis »

It will take a lot of your time for now but puppyhood is only a few months and if a habit is formed already, it is hard to break.
How do you know if Nadine is listening to you? It starts with her making eye contact with you. Just a few seconds should merit a treat or pat from you. Thereby you are encouranging her to look at you to get cues. You know, getting Nadine to look at you when you mention her name should be FIRST in your list before other commands. Once you are getting her attention by callling her name,And it is consistent, then you can proceed to other command. Commmands are taught one by one. Each one when mastered, you get to the next. Never combine in such a young puppy with no vocabulary whatsoever. Some commands such as sit is mastered in 5sessions or as long as 10sessions and you must follow through. In certain circumstances like before giving her a treat make her sit.
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Re: HELP!

Post by queeniethequeen »

Thanks for such a nice advice Cam Atis!:) So is it okay to crate her whenever she bites?
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Re: HELP!

Post by Ursa's daddy »

Cam:
I have raised several other breeds and that kind of thing worked on larger breeds... BUT girl, IT DOESN'T WORK with a Chow
You are beginning to learn about Chows...I am impressed. Chows are dogs, and for the most part, basic training methods work, except that chows want to put a little twist on the training.
You mentioned you have some other people in your house, right? You all have to be informed what to do in such a situation. No matter how you behaved around your chowling, if other people in the house behaved otherwise, the training will be lost. Nadine will be confused which behaviour is acceptable and which is not.
Every one has to follow the training. Nadine is smart enough to act like a small child. If one parent says "no," then just check with the other parent and see if you can get a "yes".
Consistency is key. Repetition. Imagine trying to tell a 9month old human baby not to put on dirty things in her mouth. That's Nadine. And she will never grow up She'll be stuck so much like a 2 year old human.
How true.
How do you know if Nadine is listening to you? It starts with her making eye contact with you. Just a few seconds should merit a treat or pat from you. Thereby you are encouraging her to look at you to get cues. You know, getting Nadine to look at you when you mention her name should be FIRST in your list before other commands. Once you are getting her attention by calling her name,And it is consistent, then you can proceed to other command. Commands are taught one by one.
What I have found it that chows really want to be attached to their human. Nadine wants to nip because that is the way puppies play. They are limited in their ability to make physical contact. They can paw you, jump on you,nip, lick, or mouth you. That's it. If you withdraw when she nips at you, she will get the message. Stand up, cross your arms and look away. When she calms down, look at her and tell her to sit. I have always found that having a dog sit is a good neutral position. You have the dog's attention, and this is a good starting position for the next response. When the dog sits, then I use a verbal reward by saying "good dog" and perhaps a physical reward like scratching/rubbing the dog behind the ear. The message you want to communicate to your dog is that if she wants to get your attention, then she has to act properly. If she does not act properly, then you will ignore her. Chows seem to really understand that simple message.
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Cam Atis
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Re: HELP!

Post by Cam Atis »

<<  Thank you Ursa's Dad.  :D  >>

You know Queeniethequeen, we have something in common, that is, our chows' age and color, and my first chow also - thus Ursa's comment :-)  so we can compare notes on their progress. 

Is it okay to crate her? It depends. Are you at-home most of the time or works in the office type of mom?

Are you refering to the crate where she sleeps at night? but as I have said, I prefer attaching a leash to my pup when I let her out from her crate and waiting for her to nip me and then I correct her, and see how she responds. If after a "name" No! is said, leash pulled away and she look away as if my ankle is of no interest to her at all, (that's a few seconds only) Well and good - praise immediately (after 6 seconds). it means she heard me and understood me that's why she looked at the window all of a sudden. However,  If Nadine play bowed and unrelenting after your correction - change your tone from a calm one to a firm voice slightly louder from the first, IGNORE her like What Ursa's dad described. Do this for 6-10 seconds . Crossed arms (she bites to get your attention- painful yes but dont emit a sound unless it is too much) IF SHE DID NOT bite/nip for 6-10seconds - PRAISE her quickly a chin rub is best.  and if you gave an angry tone and she still unrelenting - it means your training style means nothing to her she doesnt understand you.
why 6-10 seconds only? Because if it is longer - you loose her concentration. That 6-10seconds should be gradually increased to 15 sec-20sec ) . For praise - also. 

a crate must be wide enough for comfort, and If you are crating her for most of the day it should be in a place where she sees a lot of people moving so she dont get homesick, I used to place mine in the kitchen. 


Basically I don't use TIME-OUT method.  Rarely and it is my maximum penalty if she's bad. MEANING - that's the end of her training time.i'll  See her around after 3hours.

Crating has a lot of pros and cons. Dont crate her for 7 hours straight - except during the night. And this crate if it is her special comfort zone. dont even crate time out her when she just came out after serving a lengthy jail time and here you are sending her to crate again for 5 min, let out and then, Crate again.  This kind of training method is only effective if you are home all the time and your puppy has free access to your house all the time. BUT if you are crating her most of the time-like if you are working away from home - then for me, time outs are more stressful to your pup because SHE WANTED TO BE WITH YOU, coz you are gone a few hours and she's excited to be around you - like Ursa said, Chows need their human.  It doesnt make any sense you punish her for that. Now, if she is crated most of the day, and you don't use leash method, but prefers time-out method... After you let her out for pooping, please allow at least 30minutes interactive play before you implement time outs. Which means 30 minutes she'll be around you mouthing you - mouthing is different from biting. This method also means, it can stretch to an hour coz crate method: you gotta let her out after 5minutes so she can continue to be with you and repitition is KEY. How many sets of 5 minutes can you do?

I am busy working too so It is the reason I prefer leash training plus she get to be with me. She used to be leashed to me once she is out of her cage. We do her pooping and peeing, then the game of  nipping my ankle and me saying No is on! A pup will immediately go outside do her pooping and peeing first before eyeing you as her squeaky chew toy. Coz you squeak everytime she bites you,  and pull up your legs, you make an attractive and interactive chew toy for Nadine. 

Cassie used to love the newcomers doing the "dance" of legs up with her trying to catch an ankle or two in her mouth. However I told them to be still instead. 

Cassie - now 15weeks old - has won herself more and more free roaming times - not leashed- and doesn't nip or bite for almost 2 weeks now, although she is good at the "come" command, she is testing me again.  ( see? Chow attitude. She knew but opted not to do it if it doesnt please her = stubborn) She hears, looks at me, then decide she has better things to do - like sun bathing or stretching. Or would do a cat behaviour. She'll hear, look at me, walks towards me then stops 2 meters away and sit. She'll look at me eyeing me.  Despite my repeated calls, she stands up, walk away and if she knew I will now walk towards her, she'll run under the car so I can't reach her. But if I have food she cannot resist and comes and i led her straight to her cage/crate. Mind you, she do this when it is time for her to go to her cage/crate during the day. She did it yesterday and today. 

Have you heard that chows have a behavior and would suddenly become hard at hearing? deaf? :-) I find it amusing and funny.
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Re: HELP!

Post by PCC »

queeniethequeen wrote:Thanks for such a nice advice Cam Atis!:) So is it okay to crate her whenever she bites?
Definitely a no-no. The crate is their safe haven, a place to relax. If you crate her when she bites, you send a confusing message. Punishment needs to be a different place than the crate.
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