Training of Chows

Training and behavior topics, guidelines, and tips for Chow Chows.

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IliamnasQuest
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Training of Chows

Post by IliamnasQuest »

What I find with chows is that they learn really well but they need very consistent trainers. If they find they can get away with something and do things their way, they surely will. But a good trainer will find ways to make the chow think that what they want is what the owner wants too. This isn't that hard to do - like I said, it takes consistency. I don't find my chows to be particularly hard to train. In fact, I thoroughly enjoy the way they think. Like other spitz breeds, they are not tremendously driven to do things to please anyone but themselves. So I just set it up so that I control what pleases them (like food, etc.) and then they learn what to do in order to get what they want.

They learn that they can get the door to open by sitting .. they can get a treat by heeling .. they can get petting and scratches by doing a trick. In the wild, they'd be doing other behaviors in order to get what they want - I have just set up the behaviors to fit what I want, and they still get all the advantages.

It's a mutual training in a way .. *L* .. and it works well on all dogs, but especially dogs with independent minds like the chow.

Chows tend to think about what they're doing more than, say, German shepherds. My shepherds are bright and quick to learn, but they do tend to try all sorts of things before they figure out what to do. I did a "test" of the four dogs a few years ago (the shepherds, Trick and Tori and the chows, Kylee and Dora). I decided I would try to teach them all the same behavior and see how they differed.

So I took a step - like an exercise step you use in aerobic step training - and I put it in the middle of the floor. The goal was that each dog would learn to put their front feet up on the step and then stand there (hind feet on the floor). I worked each dog separately.

Initially I took a treat and lured them so that each dog stepped up onto the step. I did that a couple of times and then took the lure away.

And then I waited to see what they would do. Both chows were very methodical. They looked at me, looked at the step, and placed a foot on it - which received an instant reward marker (YES!) and a treat. It took very little time and they were consistently stepping up onto the step for the treat, without any luring. It was pretty obvious that they were thinking about it but not over-thinking it. They weren't going to do more than what was needed, however.

The shepherds, on the other hand, tried all sorts of things. Trick kept jumping over the step. She tried circling the step. Finally she put a paw on it and I marked and rewarded that behavior. But then she went back to leaping over it. She was so eager to do something that she went overboard. Her goal was to figure out what to do in order to get the treat and she kept throwing all sorts of behaviors at me. Tori did much the same thing. She wanted to please me so much that she kept trying behavior after behavior. It took longer to teach each of the shepherds to do that simple trick than it did the chows. The shepherds were much more eager to do it, but they over-thought it all and ended up taking longer to figure it out.

I have three chows here, all from very different bloodlines. Each is very independent, as is typical for the breed. But they all learn very well because I've made it worth their while to learn. They even learn advanced behaviors - like in heeling, they can all pivot their rumps back when I pivot left, and Khana does a beautiful back-up when I step backwards in heeling. All three wave goodbye and spin. All know down and sit and stay and "get-around" (return to heel position). And they do it with enthusiasm, because I've been highly reinforcing with them.

So I don't think it's a matter of a chow being that hard to train. They don't think like many breeds and their main purpose in life is to please themselves first. But in all honesty, that's the main purpose for all dogs. It's just that it pleases some dogs to work closely with their owners more than it does others .. *L* .. so people consider them the "easy" breeds, while chows - because of the independent mind - is considered a hard breed to train. The reality is it is only hard for the trainer to be consistent and rewarding. These dogs are only limited by the ability and desire to train of the people around them.

And for a lot of chow owners, it's just not very important to have a trained dog. There's NOTHING wrong with that, either. As long as a chow is a safe, viable member of society (in that they aren't aggressive or a danger in any way) then the rest of the training is pretty much icing. I happen to enjoy doing lots of things with my girls, but that's me.

Oh - I started working with Dora again too! I took her out off-leash yesterday in the driveway and ran her through her paces. We did heeling, stand for exam, stays and recall. I didn't put a leash on her one time, and she was happy and attentive! I was so pleased with her. Her attitude was just beautiful - tail wagging the whole time, head up and mouth "smiling". She ran to me on the recall and sat promptly in front of me! What a girl. So I went ahead and entered her in the upcoming obedience trials. She has one leg of her CD and there are three shows (she needs two more qualifying scores). I also entered Khana in novice rally (she needs one more leg) and Trick in advanced rally (also needs one more leg).

To finish my long post here (wha ..?? Did I hear someone call me "wordy"? *LOL*) .. above and beyond everything else, my chows are my companions and part of my family. If they never did another obedience competition, it would make no difference to the way I feel about them. Just like some parents do sports with their kids, I do sports with mine. I see how much they enjoy getting out and doing things with me, so as long as they're having fun we'll continue to have fun together. And on those days when we fail in an obedience or agility trial, I will still love them every bit as much as I did before. It's the doing things together that I treasure .. the winning is just icing on the cake!

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
chowfrnd88
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Post by chowfrnd88 »

I very much agree!!

I've found that Special is eager to do whatever the task is... just like you said, for the right motivation. He spends so much time wagging his tail during our exercises, I love it. I know that's for the treat and not really the training, but he picks up everything so very quickly. Sometimes he gets over excited and will run through everything we know so he can that treat!! I tell him "no, haven't asked for anything yet!!!" :D Then he calms down and waits to see what he needs to do.

I really am still so amazed to see how fast everything clicks with him!!

I laughed when you said that it's a mutual training, I've thought before too. Yesterday I was reading a book on tricks and there's a cartoon in it that has two dogs talking to each other and Pavlov sitting in the foreground reading a book and one dog says to the other "watch...I can get him to ring that bell just by drooling a little." :lol: I thought, oh so true!!!

I am so excited about starting intermediate classes with him. One of my co-workers at work raises show and agility labs, everytime I walk by he shakes his head and asks how "the chow" is. I tell him great, a few days ago I told him I want to work on agility with him and more obedience. He said "have you ever seen a chow in an obedience class? In an agility class? Do you know why?" I said, "why yes I have!" I told him how we graduated from beginners and that Special was the demo dog because he wa sthe star and then of course I threw you into the conversation and bragged about your girls and their accomplishments. He asked "was this in the U.S.?" I just laughed and said "YES!!!!!!!" He said he's only expect in China or something. Whatever, I say chows rule!! :D

But for us, so far we are limited by the treat reward. Special loves hugs and pets, but I'd say 70% of the time, he won't do what I ask unless there is a treat present. When Mandy posted that her two cuties actually SAT at PETSMART, my jaw dropped in amazement and jealousy :D ... that seems really, really, really far away for me!! EXCEPT when we're outside, then Special listens 95% of the time, even if no treat is being offered-- and it just keeps increasing...

I was wondering if you were going to continue work with Dora. By the way, I love all teh pics of her, is she the smallest of your girls? Maybe it's just all the black cuteness, but she always looks shorter and he expressions are just priceless!!

Ok, now I'm rambling!! Have a great day everyone!
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Rogansmommy
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Post by Rogansmommy »

One of the biggest things I learned with Rogan is that he needed considerably LESS practice than Nina and other dogs I've owned/worked with. I intentionally worked Nina with him watching and made him WANT it. By the time I would get to him, he would be jumping up and down, eager to show me what he could do. It was almost a sibling rivalry between the two of them that only he noticed. :roll:

On competition days, and the week leading up to competitions, I wouldn't work him alot, but I would spend alot of time with him. So, by the time we got in to the ring, he was ready to go. On the days he got each of the legs for his CD, each judge said, "This is the first time I've qualified a chow". It took 4 shows - he only 'chowed out' once. :wink:

The majority of the time I used bait to lure him, but since he just loved to be with me, alone, we could 'play' and have fun. The other thing I did differently with him was how I spoke to him. I never asked him "Are you ready?" like I would with Nina (to get her pumped up). With Rogan, it was always "Let's do it!" and he would give me that goofy grin and off we would go. 8)
Michele

^Rogan^ at the Bridge on 5/16/09 -- always in my heart
PurpleKisses
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Post by PurpleKisses »

I can agree with that. Chi-Ching will watch other dogs do what they are supposed to first and then he has no problem doing it. If he has to gofirst and blows it, I will have him watch a more experienced person/dog team, and the next time, he has it down.

I say "are you ready?" to Chi-Ching, but he knows that the word "ready" means he has to work. He loves it. I can say "okay, get ready" and he will IMMEDIATELY snap into focus, just eager to go. He is SO competitive, he wants to win. When we have dog races, instead of focusing on coming to me, like the other dogs are focused on their owners, he is watching them, always trying to get one step ahead of them. :wink:
IliamnasQuest
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Post by IliamnasQuest »

Wow, I'm glad someone understood my babblings! *LOL*

chowfrnd88: Yes, Dora is the smallest of the girls at a svelte 38 pounds (she's mostly hair! *L*). Kylee is 40-41 pounds, and Khana is up there at 51 pounds. It's funny, people see Khana and say "wow, she's small for a chow, isn't she?" and then I tell them I have two more at home much smaller.

I think people's reactions are truly humorous when I talk about working my chows in obedience and agility. It's a common misconception that the chow is not trainable. They can be trained, you just have to figure out the right motivation. There's also a certain amount of "do it because I said so" at a certain point if you're really going to do well with this breed. And it's okay to tell them they have to do a behavior, as long as the behavior isn't cruel or painful or beyond their physical or mental abilities. I find that my dogs are actually happier with a job to do.

And that's why I think Dora has been doing so well. We went out again today, no leash, and I ran her through her paces out in the driveway. She was SO thrilled, her tail never stopped wagging. She is happy that we're actually doing something together, and that's an attitude I encouraged in her from the beginning. I do so much positive reinforcement that the dogs actually look forward to doing things with me. It's a far cry from the old days of jerk and pull and force.

For those using treats - there is a right and a wrong way to train with food. Dogs who become dependent on the treat have been conditioned to expect a visible or obvious treat. That's a training mistake (and one I made at first, too). The treats should only be visible or on your person for a short amount of time, and then those treats need to go somewhere else. They can be in a pocket, but even better is to put them on a table or a chair. And then in the middle of training (let's say you're heeling and your dog is looking up with that "aren't I just GREAT?" look), you suddenly say "YES!! GOOD GIRl! Let's go get the TREATS!" and you run your dog to where the treats are and you give a treat. The praise and the running to the treat becomes part of the reinforcement too.

A step farther is to have several stashes of treats around the area you will train in. Ideally you go into the area without your dog and set up these treats. Outside you could have several small containers or (if no other dogs are around) some plastic margarine lids with a few treats on them, placed in various areas. Then you have several places to run your dog to at random times - places that your dog doesn't know about. The idea is to have your dog never know when and where the treats will happen.

In my training facility here, I place them up on the edge of the blackboard, on outlets (we're in a warehouse so the outlet boxes stick out on the walls), on chairs, on pieces of agility equipment, etc. And I don't carry treats on me at all.

This then transfers over to competition. The treats are in a container and the container is left outside the ring - and as soon as we finish (even if we messed up) I run my dog directly to the treats for a reward. I heel her out of the ring so I can reinforce for that last bit of heeling. And until my dog is rewarded, I don't talk to anyone .. my dog MUST come first. I see so many people come out of the ring and then stand there talking to someone and they never even acknowledge their dog. That's just not good training, in my eyes.

Melanie and the gang in Alaska
chowfrnd88
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Post by chowfrnd88 »

You mentioned the trick to using treats correctly to me a a while ago, and since I started doing it I have been seeing even better results than to always reward him with the treat and when he sees the treats. He really is so much more eager to see which time he'll get a reward.

I LOVE how you work on the recall, I'm sure that would get Special's attention too! :D
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